...ironic coming from a guy who still blogs despite the headache it gives him. 
to be honest with you, it's totally different for me now.
Thanks for your comments, Hyrax. I appreciate what you're saying, and it's largely true. This is not the best form of therapy, although I'll admit it will feel good to air all these things in public. I thought long and hard about exactly what you're saying (about a decade) before I decided to blog.
Briefly, I decided to air my grievances about Rav Bina not just because he treated me and my fellow students very poorly, but because of 1) what he represents; 2) as a warning to parents and high school students considering going to Israel for the year; and 3) as a forum, so that people who have had similar experiences can come out of woodwork and know that they're not alone. So much of the year in Israel experience was about cutting off our freedom to think and speak for ourselves. Having a public blog is a great, risk-free way to reclaim it. By openly tackling the most taboo subjects of the year in Israel in a public forum, we reassert our right and ability to think for ourselves, and we send a clear signal to Rav Bina that our thoughts, and not just his divinely inspired judgments, are granted expression in our world.
1. Rav Bina represents a lot of what's bad about Modern Orthodoxy and specifically the year in Israel experience. After entrusting their kids to poor Jewish day schools with bad limudei kodesh teachers, parents feel bad, as if they haven't given their kids enough Jewish content. So to alleviate their religious guilt, they send their kids to Yeshiva in Israel, where they know that their kids will come back religious. All their concerns about not giving their kids proper Jewish educations or enough of a connection to their people's tradition are alleviated. They don't really stop and think twice about what's going on in Israel or whether it's healthy for their children.
2. Although he talks a good game to parents and donors, Rav Bina represents the abnegation of American secularism.
a. He tells parents that he wants them to send their kids to American university after Yeshiva, but he spends the entire year bashing American universities and the danger they pose to religious Jewish souls. All of his philosophy stems from very right wing doctrine. Although he calls his Yeshiva Modern Orthodox, that is only nominally the case. He seems to have no use for western civilization except for relying on its money in order to run his yeshiva and maintain his beautiful apartment in the old city. Parents ought to know what they're getting their kids into. Students also ought to be aware that they're coming into contact with a very right wing thinker, that his rigid dogmatic philosophy is not modern orthodoxy, and that other Weltanschauungen aside from his are equally valid (if not more so, empirically). His Yeshiva shuts down free questioning/thought, and people ought to be aware of that.
b. He constantly humiliates his students in front of other students. This is mainly a technique to get them to fear/
looks like I got cut off. you can find my full response in a new post: http://ihateravbina.blogspot.com...sons-
detre.html
hey holy hyrax listen ya lil faggot, here's some news for you: you aren't in your coddly little yeshiva anymore, you wanna participate in the free market of ideas you are gonna get competed against.
Elisha has every right to bash that rabbi on his blog, I have every right to bash you on your blog cause you are a whiny bitch cauze someone wouldn't bow down to the authority of a penguin rabbi(and if you are too much of a pussy to take it on your blog then there's my blog that I can bash you on), and finally you have the right to come to my blog and bash me and challenge what I say.
That's what the free market of ideas is. Welcome to America...
Edited By Siteowner
Grow up you moron. Come back when you have something intelligent to say, as opposed to some knee-jerk slogans. Nobody was talking about "rights"
OOOh knee jerk slogans? ROFL! Ehm, you have the right to stop being a whiny bitch.
It's very simple.
Criticizing religious leaders = ALLOWED. Stop da... whining about it.
Edited By Siteowner
Maybe you have a problems reading the actual CONTENT of the post.
Let me say this again, NO WHERE did I say whether it is allowed, or not allowed. No where did I say, he has no rights to do it. Now, go back, and try to re read the post, and come back when you can actually follow through with what the post was talking about, instead of what the post is NOT talking about.
OH, and psssstttt...some news for you. BEFORE you attempt to scare someone with your comments, try learning something up on that person. The little secret is, I never went to yeshiva. But ssshhhhh, facts don't matter.
HH,
Another little kid who can't control his tongue or his pen it seems.
SJ and similar 'bright' minds:
Just because you have a vendetta against some Rabbi or anyone else, doesn't mean anyone is interested. No one around here is standing up for any Rabbis, so you don't have a bone to pick with any of us. At least Elisha is civil about it, so he can say whatever he is saying at the risk of being boring or interesting. You and others who won't be mentioned, right away go to the foul language, and it's not only against Rabbis, it seems that anyone who doesn't share your views completely gets the full accompaniment of blessings from your type. Enough, we're adults and the conversation should be kept civil and constructive.
Seriously. These teens have this surge of freedom and they don't know what to do with it other then go to the extreme other direction of cursing and just all and out being nasty people.
Now you're just bein a disingenuous lil bitch you tried to tell Elisha that criticizing rabbis is not mentally healthy thereby attempting to pressure him away from his rights in a free society.
oh and HH if you think you are cool because you got numbers in the title of your blog, you aren't.
אַל-תַּעַן כְּסִיל, כְּאִוַּלְתּוֹ: פֶּן-תִּשְׁוֶה-לּוֹ גַם-אָתָּה.
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. (Proverbs 26:4).
Please point to the exact comment where I "pressured" him to anything, or is questioning peoples actions now (in the most sincerest ways) now not allowed in a free society?
>oh and HH if you think you are cool because you got numbers in the title of your blog, you aren't.
No you idiot, I know I'm cool because of those numbers.
Acher: Another smart-ass who can't control his kavod for the holy rabbis.
To be more civil, I think you don't realize that those of us who put ourselves out there are often subjected to extreme criticism. While I understand you, Acher, don't necessarily have a problem with criticizing rabbis, you realize that many in the frum community do. They sometimes even disguise their concern for the rabbis' honor as concern for a blogger's wellbeing, or other such things. Once we're quoting Pirkei Avos, "al tadin es chavercha ad she'tagia limkomo."
Stop playing this victim game. Most bloggers, INCLUDING frum ones criticize rabbis. That is actually one of the few things that tie skeptics to believers in the blogs. My only point here was that if one wants to continue on with life and not have his past control him, a blog dedicated to nothing but posting how horrible a particular rabbi is, over and over again, (and comments tend to be worse) is probably not the best way. And, I do think it poses an ethical question of how much is a bit too much.
HH stop playing games to you any much is too much.
"(Proverbs 26:4)"
Don't debate with a fool. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience . . .
Honestly though I think Elisha, himself, says it pretty clearly: " I appreciate what you're saying, and it's largely true."
Ari/Garnel:
>Don't debate with a fool. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
And you should know...
>HH stop playing games to you any much is too much.
Remember what we agreed on little SJ? You can come back when you have something intelligent to say. But instead, you prefer to create a world where all frummies were like your yeshiva experience. Then you feel you can hammer them down. Here is a little hint, go through my own archives.
>Honestly though I think Elisha, himself, says it pretty clearly: " I appreciate what you're saying, and it's largely true."
Exactly. The baal hablog seems to understand perfectly.
Dude, just for the record. I am not Garnel . . .
Hey OTD,
Got a question for you.
Since it's fair for you to assume that all frum people act & think alike is it safe for me to assume that all OTD people are classless sickos with no respect for the dead?
Here's what SJ has to say on a respectful post of a frequent commenter's passing on kvetecher.net:
"On Ronen’s grave it’s gonna say, “liar liar pants on fire!” XD"
God or no god, this is extremely disgusting and just the thought that you could be willing to side with this child unequivocally is disgusting. Please clear the air if it isn't beneath you.
Hey Ari:
1) You ARE Garnel.
2) If you have a problem with SJ, take it up with the man himself.
I am not, nor do I even understand why you think I am. There must be a way for you to check ip addresses . . .
and 2) no, like you, I choose to take all displeasures I come across in the skeptic community and place it equally on all skeptic bloggers I have never met before and judge them accordingly.
It seems to be the most objective way to have a conversation.
You are such an ass.
>Honestly though I think Elisha, himself, says it pretty clearly: " I appreciate what you're saying, and it's largely true."
Ari,
I wasn't referring to Elisha, I think that was pretty clear. I was referring to the know-all SJ.
Sorry for confusion Acher, I wasn't speaking to you, only quoted you to make a line about fools.
Was referring to people claiming HH had ulterior motives when the intended recepient understood what HH was saying in the first place.
It's as if OTD & SJ had to put words in HH's mouth so that they could go back and disagree with him.
Ari, you can take a look at my latest post, for just how to think properly.
Ari: >There must be a way for you to check ip addresses . . .
There are many ways to prove your "innocence", if you're indeed not Garnel. You can send me an email. Or we can arrange a time for you to comment on my blog, and I can check your IP address at that time.
The ball's in your court.
I agree with you in general that dwelling in anger and hatred too long is counterproductive. However, those of us who went OTD spent years in a system where we were not allowed (by social pressure, etc.) to speak honestly and openly. And some of us have a lot of anger still about how we were treated before and after we went OTD.
Also, I remember Rav Bina. I did not go to his yeshiva, but I stayed there once and I had friends who went there. Dude's crazy. He ran the place like a jail, was a bully and a fraud (yes, promising parents one thing and then doing the opposite, etc.), etc. Just genuinely seemed mentally unbalanced.
And the yeshiva system in general has a lot of very negative things about it that you don't hear... because people who didn't like their year in yeshiva aren't welcomed into their communities the same way that people who did are. If you liked it, oh, baruch hashem, you're one of us, tell us all about it. If you didn't, oh there must be something wrong with you. Don't spread that hatred and lashon hora around here.
Now I'm not saying "I hate Rav Bina" is the best name for a blog, or indeed that a blog is the best format. As I suggested at that blog, I think a blog or wiki of reviews of Israeli rabbis which included reviews from people who don't like him and/or went OTD would be more useful.
But don't blame the victim when they lash out in anger or use the anonymity of the internet to vent in a way they've never been able to do in "public" before. Blame the Rav Binas of the world who would punish you or kick you out or tell your parents or threaten to smack you if you dared to express your honest opinions while they were still under their authority.
And, not to be a broken record, but I recomment therapy to most people who go OTD, not because going OTD shows that there's something wrong with you but because (1) going OTD can itself be traumatic and (2) lots of people who go OTD have a lot of stuff from their frum years they haven't yet come to terms with.
"The ball's in your court."
Dude, I don't really know what there is to be "innocent" about . . . I stopped commenting on your blog when everytime I did you said you didn't want to hear from me.
I did go by SYL at some point, before I decided that using Ari can be equally anonymous . . . And I think I have used both on your blog.
Honestly, I don't really see any reason why I should care whether or not you believe me to be Garnel, other than the guy has apparently spewed some pretty nasty stuff in your direction.
What's your e-mail address?
Ah, I thought you were SYL too. Any other confessions, Garnel?
You know my email.
"Ah, I thought you were SYL too."
Dude, I've said as much on your blog.
When you came around was a round the time I started just going by Ari so my name was sometimes both.
But I admitted it there . . . I just sent you an e-mail hope that clears it up . . .
>Dude I've said as much on your blog.
I'd like a citation. Nobody knows my blog better than I do, and I'm almost positive you never said anything even remotely similar.
And no, your email did NOT clear anything up.
OTD
Get off of it. I already talked to Ari. he is NOT Garnel. Why are you so pushing that he is?
Yea looks like I mis-remembered.
The post I was thinking of is dated Thursday March 12: I posted in the comments under Ari, then followed up the comment under SYL.
You replied: why does something tell me they;re the same person
I thought it was pretty obvious at the time . . . b/c they were the same person. I then replied again without logging in I guess, and figured that covered it.
But you're right, I didn't state it explicitly.
Meanwhile, we've just e-mailed back and forth quite a few times, part of which allowed for this conversation (and I am quoting verbatim):
Me - "There is no logical reason for you to assume I am Garnel . . . "
You - "Did I ever say there was a logical reason?"
* Apologies to HH for hijacking his thread . . .
HH: Now you're mixing in? But of course, your credibility is sky-high too. The guy who mixed up Stalin and Palin. All the same.
"Ari": I will check the post. IIRC, you didn't say a word about your many identities, I did. And way to cherry pick from our email conversation, where you send me lengthy emails describing why you refuse to leave one measly comment on my blog to clear your name.
You're dead.
"IIRC, you didn't say a word about your many identities, I did"
IIRC, that's what I just said . . . 16 minutes ago . . .
"where you send me lengthy emails describing why you refuse to leave one measly comment on my blog to clear your name."
My e-mails aren't lengthy . . . I told you very clearly there is nothing to "clear my name" from.
You think just b/c you came into contact with 2 random frum people on the inter-web that they are the same dude.
I commented that I can't see any reason why you would even think I'm the same person . . . to which you replied "Did I ever say there was a logical reason?"
There was no cherry picking involved. If you would like to post the entire e-mail chain, that's cool by me.
The reason I "refuse" to leave one measly comment on your blog is b/c everytime I have in the past you were rude and asked me to just go away . . . so I did . . .
"You're dead."
Classic internet tough guy, eh . . . this isn't some kind of fight.
What's your deal anyway?
You asked me to admit to being Garnel, I told you I'm not him . . . end of story . . .
Ari, just ignore OTD, he is clearly just upset about something that you will never be able to fix. This thread should be used to discuss the post. You guys should have this discussion in e-mails.
-Just wanted to comment on this post. I know lots of Guys that went to Netiv Aryeh/Hakotel and had both positive and negative experiences. I do see how Rav Bina does a good job with some people and causes other people to completely hate OJ. It is unfortunate and very upsetting.
-I don't see why this guy would name the blog I hate Rav Bina except that he wants to hurt his ego, which makes sense. Apparently Elisha was hurt. I think it might be therapeutic for him to have the blog for a little while because writting about how you are feeling really helps. However, I can't see how having this blog up for a long time will help. You can only say how much you hate someone so much.
Etan:
Mind your own fucking business.
>HH: Now you're mixing in? But of course, your credibility is sky-high too. The guy who mixed up Stalin and Palin. All the same.
Ok, you know what. Ari IS Garnel. Happy? Grow up.
And yes, i do have more crediblity than you at least. I don't censor comments.
I see some people just don't get it. So to all those that want to really understand OTD, refer to my latest post.
>Mind your own fucking business.
I wish I had such clarity of expression. But what can I do, I don't have such talents of erudition as some others. Gotta live with what you've got.
OTD-
When you put something in a public forum it becomes public business. That is why a private argument should be private. Why do you swear so much? And why are you trying to limit my freedom of expression?
"Ari" (everyone else I'll get to later):
I found the post, and I couldn't stop laughing.
http://offthed.blogspot.com/2009...9/03/
story.html
It's about a closet atheist, named Garnel, one of my most well-received posts to date.
Ari comments: "Dude, I'm a frum guy who reads your blog from time to time.
Am I allowed to leave comments or not?"
Then, SYL: "Are my comments going to be completely censored?
I apologize for being annoying, it's just that before I invest in your blog I'd like to be assured that I shouldn't waste my time.
Again, I'm sorry if I'm being annoying."
Then me: "Ari, SYL(Why does something tell me they're the same person?):
I generally prefer no frum comments, but if you promise to be respectful, I guess I don't mind.
In regard to "investing" in my blog, don't do me any favors. I don't recall ever asking anyone to read my blog, and I don't plan on starting now."
Then ANONYMOUS!: "Alright, I want do you any favors then . . . g'luck with the blog!"
ROFL.
Am I being censored?
Sorry, delete the last one-line comment please.
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