I'm afraid Israel is correct. Why should the commercial enterprises of the Roman Empire be exempt?
I don't understand how a church divided for 1000 years will be reunited without dialog. Would we rather propogate division?
Where do we draw the line between two extremes? I think dialog is necessary and beneficial, so long as it does not compromise the faith. The monks on the Holy Mountain certainly are staunch defenders of Orthodoxy, and we need them, but I would ask them how true unity can be achieved without some measure of dialog? Yes, we pray for unity of all Christians in true communion, but I don't think God is going to snap His fingers and POOF! there you go! We work with God - synergia. The opportunity is there; proceeding with due caution in regards to protecting the faith, perhaps we can dialog more and progress towards unity.
I think the monks often look foolish, or simply are foolish, and that is good. Let them stand atop pillars chanting the Jesus prayer and castigating heretics and demon worshipers. It worked before. Plus, it gives us imprudent moderns hope that the problem isn't merely imprudence itself. Might just give the nihilistic counter-culturalists examples they can't top.
What these monks don't get is that Western Christendom and Byzantium no longer exist (these monks still live on Byzantine time for goodness sake). The world has changed and its time for Christians to realise that without a serious effort to mutually understand each other and work together, the secular forces will contimnue to grow and exert an influence on society.
These monks need to check their priorities. They are saying that Catholics and Orthodox should not work together to end abortion and prevent Euthenasia. Why? Because Catholics are not "Orthodox". Are they crazy? It seems they would rather see babies continue to be killed in the womb than work together with "un-orthodox" Catholics to end abortion.
The only hope for Christianity is our continued effort to grow in mutual respect and work togther.
When one's orthodoxy isolates you and prevents you from doing good, and causes you to judge everyone else then its time to question how one is living and defending your faith.
Orthodoxy should not make you afraid of everyone else, nor should it isolate you. It should embolden you to go out to ALL the world.
PS: Why do many Orthodox Christians get so googoo eyed whenever they hear about Mt. Athos. To be sure the place has produced many saints, but it also has produced many nut bars. I
I remember a few years ago meeting a monk from Athos and he was going on and on about credit cards and bar codes on things like cereal boxes were the "sign of the beast" etc.
I also wonder if these monks hate Catholics so much, then what do they think of Jews?
We really must question these monks and not adopt some sort of knee jerk guruism where we think everything that drops out of their mouths is correct and representative of Orthodoxy.
Does anyone remember this? http://directionstoorthodoxy.org...?
article_id=226
The Schismatic monks duking it out with the Canonical.
While this is by no means a common occurence on The Holy Mountain, it is none the less an example of what happens when monks get invloved with politics (never a good idea), so we sometimes get nutbats galore. However, Athos is the center of Orthodox Monasticism in our convoluted world, and needs to be respected, and it is ruled over by the Holy Theotokos. We must also remember that the places the demons frequent the most are Monasteries, Seminaries, and Churches, hence these places are well known for their "unusualness".
In all reality though Orthodox Christians are still part of the Byzantine Empire, while it may seem a bit silly to some, since the last Emperor fell with the City of Constantinople, we are still none the less Byzantines. The Orthodox Church took over the governmental functions under the Ottomans and elsewhere afterwards, the Bishops also adopted much of the regalia of the Emperors. So rejoice in our Byzantineness, and get an imperial flag for our flag poles! lol.
p.s. And I'm glad to say that a good perk since we are part of the Byzatine Empire, is we could still cut off someones nose, poke out their eyes and send them to a monastery if they cross us 
I thought Orthodox Christians were the body of Christ rather than an earthly kingdom but what do I know.
I though the icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary gaurding Mt. Athos was beautiful.
However I do have a question about it. I remember reading in more than a few books about iconography and Eastern Orthodoxy that EVERY icon of the Theotokos MUST have Christ in the icon as well. Why is Christ not present in this icon?
I sure we have all heard long winded theological disertations of how Catholic iconography of Our Lady always excludes Christ and this is why Catholics do not have an Orthodox view of Mary blah, blah blah.
And yet here from the Holy Mountain. The bastion of all Holy Tradition is an icon with no Jesus present in the picture.
I was wondering if the Orthodox Christians could explain this.
In addition, since Our Lady does in fact appear in Orthodox iconography without Her Divine Son then perhaps Orthodox writers can stop making unfair generalisations about Catholic mariology based on the fact that many statues of Our Lady in the West appear without Christ also.
I don't know about sweeping generalizations, Andrew. Most icons of the Theotokos do portay her with Christ. But, there's those that don't; case in point.
Besides, her relationship with Mt Athos is post-Ascension ... it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to portray her standing there with the young God-Man.
A few points:
1. First, I think many of you misinterpreted the monks' words. They didn't argue against dialogue or dealings with non-Orthodox. They counselled against liturgical prayer with non-Orthodox. It reminds me of the command for catechumens to depart in the Liturgy attributed to St. John Chrysostom. We can perhaps argue about the value of such advice, but we should at least be clear on the monks' point.
2. No ever said Mt. Athos (or any monastery, for that matter) generates secular wisdom. Ask monks about advice on loving God and His creation, not geopolitics.
3. Sure, we should question what monks say. But it's important that we do it properly. Reading hatred into the words of men who spend countless hours praying for the world (however imperfectly) should suggest ones method is flawed, or at least not appropriate to the task at hand.
4. As for the point about icons of the Theotokos, I'd never heard that polemical point made against Catholics. Though I've never seen this icon of the Theotokos before, I have seen icons of her presentation to the Temple when she was young. If memory serves (I'll confirm for myself this Sunday), Christ isn't in that fairly common icon either.
the entire text, can be found here: http://www.oodegr.com/english/oi...smos/
athos1.htm
the text in greek :
http://www.agioros.com/papismos/aikb.htm
sure they won't let a child be killed, but on the other hand, they are also in their role when they remember to some hierarchs that the common prayer with people of another religion is under no condition allowed by the Canons of the Church. They are right. It never brought any RCC pope to get back to salvific Faith. Never. On the contrary, it reinforce them in the idea that politic (and Lodges) can arrange all the stuff, and that they will win against the Church.
Kyrie eleison
JM
I am afraid Keith is dead wrong--there is no reason for a Christian (Keith being presumed as such) to support the taxation of Christians by those who are not. There is no such thing as separation of Church and state (especially in the Holy Land). Give Caesar what is Caesar's (if anything, since "the earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein") but you have to make sure he is Caesar first, and then that you are not taxed of your pearls...
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