My husband and I left ECUSA in 2003 after the election of Gene Robinson and were chrismated in an OCA church in 2004.When we left our Episcopal parish (in the Diocese of Chicago) we heard others say, "That's out in New Hampshire, it doesn't affect us." Well, now it's right on their doorstep. I am waiting to see what they will say and do now.
You're right, Father...I knew it was coming.
Lord, have mercy on Episcopalians. They are not sure they do not know what they are not sure they may be doing.
"Hensley [member of search committee] said. 'We're simply looking for the best person who is most likely called by God to be our bishop. It's not about sexuality. It's about God's call.'"
Apparently - it isn't about sexuality. So much for a "husband of one wife." How ignorant and backward of me to even bring it up.
Define "husband."
While this was not a surprise (other than it hasn't come up before), it is very, very sad. I have never been an Episcopalian, but it must be very painful for so many in that church to watch all of this play out.
Ecclesiastical experimentation.
Lord have mercy.
For some reason, the phrase "And each did what was right in his own eyes" occurred to me in connection with this. Some searches of Scripture found the following:
"[And Moses said,] You shall not at all do as we are doing here today—every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes— for as yet you have not come to the rest and the inheritance which the LORD your God is giving you." Deuteronomy 12:8
"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes." Proverbs 12:15
"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts. To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. A haughty look, a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked are sin." Proverbs 21:2-4
"In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Judges 17:6 (and the story of the Levite caring for Micah's idols in the midst of Israel is one long sordid tale from then onward)
Indeed, how often those who have claimed to be God's people instead choose to play his harlot, "each doing what was right in his own eyes."
I posted the blow comment over at T-19 on a thread dealing with the same subject. This is a very painful time for many in TEC. But I think the best that we can do for them is to express love and sympathy while encouraging them to do the right thing and leave and seek a new spiritual home. As an Orthodox Christian I obviously have a preference for where they should go, but I am hard pressed to think of many choices that could be worse than staying where they are. My comments from TITUSONENINE...
At the risk of offending some people here of good will, I am going to say something that might not go over well. I hope Ms. Lind is elected bishop. My reason is simple. I think that this is probably what it will take for a couple things to happen. It will be a clarion signal that VGR was not a fluke and that things are not going to get better. This message is first for those still in TEC whose capacity for self delusion seems limitless. If that doesn’t wake them up to the realization that it is time to leave nothing will and they can’t be helped.
The second group to which this same message needs to be delivered are the bishops in the rest of the Anglican Communion. I suspect this would be the last straw for many of them. Either TEC would be expelled from the AC or there would be a mass secession among those churches which are still Christian.
Thus my fervent hope for the election of Ms. Lind. Apologies to any who see this is an extreme course, but as I have said before, the battle for TEC is over. The battle for the heart and soul of the rest of Christendom is just beginning..
At this point, are there any conservatives left in TEC? If there are, and events up to this point have not been enough to persuade them to leave, why would ordaining a lesbian bishop make a difference? If a sexually active lesbian can be a priest, which obviously her bishop believes she can, why shouldn't she be able to become a bishop? The Spirit has left the temple, people! There ain't nobody left inside!
Someone, I believe maybe Fr Chad Hatfield, said: "Believe it or not, there are people who have recently (within the past 10 years or so) found the Episcopal Church and believe they have found The Church. They may now just be waking up to the [sad] Truth!"
That possibility aside, I agree with Ron.
Prior to reading this blog, the extent of my knowledge on the Episcopal Church came from Father Tim in the Mitford books. How queer.
Fr. bless...
It's way past time for christians to have 'fled with all haste' fom ECUSA. Staying there wil only endanger their soul.
I remember leaving conference in Jacksonville 4 years ago. I siad to a priest in an elevator with me discussing a local issue related to te sodomite who was elected bishop, "staying in ECUSA will only endanger your soul. Were are more priests with courage and back bone?" I got this confused, hurt look from two priests. Jeez! How clearer does it need to get?!
Thank you fro posting this Fr. Huneycutt
I decided to go to the Episcopal diocesan website which posts the statements of the five nominees for bishop. I was saddened to read that all five statements read like self-directed paeans of praise, each pointing out "See how wonderful and involved I am." I found it especially odd that one used the rhetorical technique of comparing herself to the Archangel St. Michael! God forbid any servant of God ever take on such airs. My thought after reading was, "How sad that the Episcopalians of this diocese can only expect one of this lot to be their icon of Christ." What a dismal prospect. How different are these worldly statements from those of the self-effacing spiritual giant St. Anthony: "I saw the snares of the devil laid out in front of me, and I asked, 'Who can flee these?' And an angel said, 'Humility.'"
Lord have mercy.
http://www.cwnews.com/offthereco...lay&
recnum=4355
When you have bishops of the church rejecting the divinity of Christ, the resurection, and the fullness of the Trinity (eg: Shelby Spong) and the church does nothing... what makes electing an openly gay bishop all that surprising?
Gee, I dunno. Electing Mizz Bishop just might do wonders for the Episcopalian - Lesbyterian dialogue.
Like a writer above, I, too, hope that Chicago elects the priestess in question, for the same reason.
Another writer above mentioned Fr. Tim and Mitford. I understand that the Mitford stories were based on St. Mary's of the Hills in Blowing Rock, NC, a parish with fond, if poignant, memories for me from my college years. When I go back to that area on summer holiday, seeing St. Mary's is like visiting an elderly aunt whom you haven't seen in 25 years. You wonder how someone could have degenerated from being about 65 and quite dignified, though ill, to being 90 and totally demented in a relatively brief quarter of a century.
As an ex-episkie, I guess I still find it hard to feel good about animus toward the institution.... especially those who humbly remain focused on their own salvation and that of their family.... despite the shenanigans of the hierarchy. Truly the notion of the Church as the Body of Christ is less far less coherent and developed than here in Orthodoxy.... so the tolerance of protestant "I did it my way" belief should probably be understood in this light. And in this respect, the notion of church democracy has essentially redefined sin and holiness... as intolerance and acceptance of "the other". And though not without a point... like most heresy, it is unbalanced, and loosens the Church from her moorings. But do they care? or do they even know and understand this? or that there is a gold standard for holiness that remains unchanged, and a God who loves them and picks them up when they fall? I don't think so. They have run so far from the juridical god of their disbelief that reconsideration of the god as we understand him... is unlikely as well.
My ex-rector has been nominated for bishop elsewhere. Reading the essays reinforces the issue that for Episcopalians... "Revelation" is on-going. And the understanding of the three-legged stool has changed. Some say that the leg of Tradition has been sawn off and replaced with "experience". Others, simply that the meaning of Tradition has become more juridical in the sense of whatever has been accepted recently (like even faulty Supreme Court decisions) and Reason changed beyond their original bounds to become simply rationalization. It is relativist at best, and nihilist in many of the respects that I think this is what secularism essentially amounts to. But the problem of on-going Revelation is the curtailment of understanding into a singular moment... and robs the group of the understandings of the Fathers, saints and martyrs.
In any case, the place is far more liberal protestant in practice and simply maintains a vestigal appearance of catholic faith and liturgy. Just because it "looks great, but is less filing" doesn't mean we should be so quickly assured that the Spirit is not with them. I still know many good and sincere christians there.... but they may be christian in spite of rather than because of their church. But in truth, Episcopalianism in general may have become more of an aesthetic and temprament than anything else.
I don't expect many will agree with me, but I would suggest it still may serve as doorway to honest faith in the church. The door may be off the hinges and full of wholes, but it still swings open and welcomes the beginners. The mistake is when these folks fail to pass through the entrance to the real thing. I wouldn't encourage anyone to go in that direction, but I wouldn't brand them either.
There's nothing Thickheaded about James' comments. At my job, I work with elderly, demented patients, and I see the Episcopal Church in the light of my experience: I once loved the ECUSA, and though what they once were to me has passed from existance, I can hardly hate them. It would be my hope, as James implied, that God could put badly flawed vessels such as the ECUSA or myself to some good use.
Please forgive my intrusion into your conversation, but I felt the need to make a couple of comments. I myself am an Episcopalian, and I find some of the language used in these comments hurtful. I consider myself to be what James has called a "good and honest" Christian. I am serious about my spiritual life, and I respect and defer to the wisdom of the Saints and Fathers as much as many Orthodox. I do not consider myself bereft of the Spirit, partially or fully demented, or subscribing to a "Lesbyterian" idealogy. As an aside, the latter phrasing is intensely divisive and ill-advised.
As a last comment, I would suggest that James may have it right again when he suggests that there is some goodness in the Episcopal Church's welcoming of beginners. It would do well to remember Abba Moses' admonishment to his brothers, "My sins run out behind me, and I do not see them, and today I am coming to judge the sins of another." All denominations and churches have their faults. My experience of Orthodoxy thus far suggests that maybe a certain exclusionary attitude might be its blind spot. Certainly, some of the opinions expressed above by others might reinforce that.
I would end by saying that some of us in the Episcopal church are indeed looking for better ways of living our faith. In fact, some of us may be exploring the Orthodox church. Do not cut us off before we reach the door by being divisive and insulting. That's exactly what we're trying to get away from.
Ashley Lyn,
Thanks for your honest Comment. I would only mention: You will find divisiveness and insult wherever you go. That's a fact of life outside Paradise. However, what you should flee and NOT tolerate is heresy.
God bless you and yours!
I have to say I really appreciate Ashley Lyn's honesty and thoughtfulness. Her point is well taken, especially in response to the welcoming nature of the Episcopal Church. In addition--though you will find divisiveness and insult wherever you go outside of Paradise, I believe that Christian morality demands that it not be an excuse for tolerating such uncaring behavior.
As a former Episcopalian who has been welcomed "home" into Orthodoxy, the truth that lives and breaths in the Liturgy, the truth that is Christ, is so pervasive that there is no need to think of judging others. The guiding light turns one to look at one's own heart and work out salvation with fear and trembling and with the sacraments which are the gifts of God to the Church.
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