I think it was Chekov in Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country that said in his thick Russian accent; "Look who's coming to dinner."
Paul | 06.30.08 - 12:49 am | #

Add to the EP's recent endorsement of dual communion his very active participation in the Pope's Mass yesterday for the Feast of St. Peter & Paul and I must confess my growing suspicion that there is something going on here. Granted it was not concelebration. But it came about as close as one can to that line without actually crossing it. Am I the only one wondering what's next?

ICXC
John
Ad Orientem | Homepage | 06.30.08 - 3:13 am | #

forgive me, but... what is the difference between "practical unity" and actual unity?
d.burns | 06.30.08 - 10:30 am | #

My husband and I were relieved and somewhat impressed to find out that the profession of faith made by Bartholomew I and Benedict XVI was the text of the Creed is that the 381 Council of Constantinople, and thus it is the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. (According to this website, which is Roman Catholic, I think,

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/06/b...creed-in-greek/ )
Margaret | 06.30.08 - 12:07 pm | #

Grass root unity exists in many parts of the world. Eastern Catholics and Orthodox often go to each others churches. This is especially so in the Middle East where all Christians are persecuted. I teach in a Catholic highschool outside of Toronto where there is a very large Coptic Orthodox community. Almost all of the Coptic Orthodox parents send their childern to Catholic schools. When I spoke to parents about why they do this, one parent said that Catholic and Orthodox are the same. He said he really learned this in Egypt when he shared a prison cell with a Catholic(both of whom were arrested for preaching the Gospel and leading prayer groups). He said that in Egypt intercommunion between Coptic Catholic/Orthodox and Latins is very common.

When my Eastern Catholic priest was in Ukraine for a summer, the Orthodox bishop asked him to say liturgy at the local Orthodox parish as it was not staffed by a regular priest. My priest accepted and was open about being an Eastern Catholic priest. The parish didn't care and was very happy to have him and welcomed him with open atrms. Intercommunion is quite common.

If this bothers us then perhaps we should look into our own souls and ask why. I suspect that the resistence to union is more often motivated by fear, personal issues and power games of clergy. Sure, there are real points for discussion but when each others points of views are read in the most favourable (read charitable) light then many of these differences do not stand up to the light of charity (which is a basic Christian virtue by the way).

Perhaps focusing on differences, we should focus on what unites us. We have a thousand year history together. We should NOT be surprised that the common ground we share and the will of Christ Himself causes man made walls of disunity to fall, and fall quickly.
Andrew | 06.30.08 - 2:01 pm | #

Father,

Just two short follow up comments.

I read your intro to this article...

1) Two Daddies??????? Perhaps on earth, but we all have one Heavenly Father. Perhaps if we ALL focused on Him, then our differences would be relativised.

2) While you did link the full article, you did cut out the part that mentions the hopeless division between the Orthodox in Ukraine. Three different Ukrainian Orthodox churches!!! Who is their Daddy? Who is Orthodox and who isn't...or who is canonical and who isn't?

We see this played out again and again in the Orthodox Church. Is the Catholic system perfect? No. But neither is the Orthodox system. The Catholic Church is at least willing to admit this fact and enter into dialogue. Why are many Orthodox not? Especially when the current state of things is a scandal that hurts the unity and witness of the Church? Bottom line...Catholics and Orthodox need each other otherwise we overemphasise certain elements of orthodox our of the other. Catholics = too much focus on Rome and not on local church...Orthodox = too much focus on local church, no leadership to unify whole Orthodox world. Orthodox world paralysed by over lapping jurisdictions and inability to speak as one voice.

Both situations runs contrary to the Fathers.
Anonymous | 06.30.08 - 2:20 pm | #

Andrew -- careful about the Anonymous comments, please.

1) I believe the terms "Pope" and "Patriarch" are akin to "Daddy". However, you bring up a good point, if the West were to come home to the Orthodox understanding of the Holy Trinity (incl the Heavenly Father), THAT would be a start.

2) Orthodoxy is complicated in the Ukraine ... let's simplify matters by linking up with Rome. Sorry. I don't quite buy that one.

I like the way Pope Benedict speaks, he sounds like a pope should! I often cringe at the way Patriarch Bartholomew speaks, in my opinion he sounds like a Patriarch shouldn't.

Be that as it may, I believe the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church; I reject the false papal claims and innovations. I do pray (in God's time) for unity; but, until the false papal claims and innovations are corrected, I pray there shall be no compromise on matters of Faith -- no matter how administratively disorganized Orthodoxy is or seems.

(PS - It's perfectly okay, even expected, for Roman Catholics to disagree with this point of view.)
Fr Joseph Huneycutt | Homepage | 06.30.08 - 3:43 pm | #

Localized exceptions in the relations between the Church and others don't automatically affect formal relations. Such localized exceptions have been around almost as long as Christianity has been. Let's count them--Orthodox/Latin, Orthodox/Unia, Orthodox/Oriental, Orthodox/Anglican--just about every Christian body that recognizes a visible church.

Guess what? None of this has changed formal relations between anyone. If I received communion at a Latin/Uniat/Oriental/Anglican church tomorrow, I'd still be an apostate, notwithstanding how many folks intercommune halfway across the world.
Visibilium | Homepage | 06.30.08 - 8:55 pm | #

Our current era makes things stickier still. In an Internet World where "local" is relative and information is ubiquitous -- ignorance abounds and many couldn't care less. Some are championing unity at all cost due, I suspect, to the temptations of the previous sentence.

From a pastoral perspective, having to minister to those who've grown up under conditions of "blurred lines" and local inter-communion, it only presents problems for the Orthodox -- never, to my knowledge, for those in communion with the Pope.
Fr Joseph Huneycutt | Homepage | 06.30.08 - 9:11 pm | #

Referring to the concepts of "dual unity"by the Catholic Cardinal and others like the Orthodox term "economia" - in the context of Panagiotate Bartholemew - tolerating other beliefs and practices simply because that's how they used to do it - seems to me to be a fallacy. That is the bad kind of tradition and lessens Orthodoxy's authority of Holy Tradition.
panos | 06.30.08 - 11:49 pm | #

You know, Saint Paul the Apostle said it best ... "One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism." As an Orthodox Christian (cradle Greek Orthodox) I believe and confess the Eastern Orthodox Church to be the true and only Chruch of Christ. And in His Church there is only one Faith. And with both of these, there is only one saving Baptism. Yet I'm constantly reminded through the actions of the clergy of the Church, that practical Orthodoxy is muddied. Even though we confess to have the true faith, we'll accept the baptism of other churches and receive converts via Chrismation and sometimes by a confession of faith alone. I remember not too long ago, we received a Catholic convert in our Parish on the same day we celebrated the Fathers of the First Eccumenical Council. She was received by only reciting the Creed. I walked out.

Let's look at what Andrew said about his Eastern Catholic priest celebrating the Liturgy in a Ukrainian Orthodox parish. That should NEVER have happened.

I believe these uses of "oikonomia" confuse and lead to greying the boundaries between faiths. Let's focus on the surface and not the core of our faith (sarcasm).

This whole dialogue with the catholics is great, but to what end. The EP has given the impression, in my eyes, that it's OK to concelebrate liturgy with catholics (even though he "didn't really" concelebrate). Let's just be one big happy family. That's great, but we're not even close to being there yet. The only way there can be unity, is if one of either side fully comes over to the other. There are too many core belief differences for this not to be the case.

In my opinion the EP should focus more on his own see to help us perfect our faith, which I thought was his primary responsibility.

Dual unity...let's throw out the Orthodox Rudder why don't we.

Sorry about the ranting. I don't mean to sound bitter and I know I'm not perfect, but Orthodoxy is dear to me. It's upsetting and sad to see such a precious thing taken for granted, especially by our elite.
Nik | 07.01.08 - 11:45 am | #

Dear Fr. Joseph,
It would be most interesting to read the entire interview with the Patriarch rather than the selectively-quoted version of it as presented by the Catholic World News. Are you able to get a copy of the article and make it available through your blog?
May God bless you!!
Subdeacon Gregory | 07.01.08 - 3:14 pm | #

Fr. Joseph,

I'm a lurker around here, and I think maybe I've only commented a time or two before, but I just want to mention that I'm an Orthodox Christian, and I work for the organization that helps support the Ukrainian Catholic University, which is where RISU is located. If you would ever like to get further into the subject, I would suggest contacting Dr. Antoine Arjakovsky, a former French diplomat and Orthodox Christian, who heads up the Institute of Ecumenical Studies there. http://www.ecumenicalstudies.org.ua. I had the good fortune of traveling with him in the US this spring, from New York & St. Vladimir's to Wichita to Chicago, and it was completely inspiring.

-Katja
Katja | Homepage | 07.06.08 - 8:51 pm | #

Do the word heresiarch mean anything to ya?
M. Woerl | 07.08.08 - 11:34 pm | #

PRESS RELEASE

"With respect to the recently published articles reporting that allegedly His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew believes that it is possible for the Greek Catholics (Uniates) to have a “double union”, in other words, full communion with Rome as well as with Constantinople, the Ecumenical Patriarchate refutes this inaccurate statement and affirms it was never made. The Ecumenical Patriarchate repeats its position that full union in faith is a prerequisite for sacramental communion."

At the Patriarchate, the 5th of July 2008
From the Chief Secretariat of the Holy Synod

http://www.ec-patr.org/docdispla...n&id=952& tla=en
Adam | Homepage | 07.11.08 - 12:35 pm | #

Heh heh heh.

HOORAY!

I welcome the correction, Adam. Thanks.
Fr Joseph Huneycutt | Homepage | 07.12.08 - 9:58 pm | #

Father bless,

Ditto! Excellent news!
Sophocles | Homepage | 07.12.08 - 11:13 pm | #