Hi, while agreeing with you in the large, I do disagree with you about the anti/pro thing.
(I don't know if what I have to say is on topic, but it's a peeve of mine, so I hope you'll bear with me.)
I have actually tried to address this in comments at many blogs who call feminist women they do not like "anti-feminists" when what is more accurate is, feminists who disagree with us in some issues. (Women like Cathy Young or Daphne Patai.)
I have seen very liberal, progressive and Jewish bloggers who use the term anti-feminists get very upset (and rightfully so) when they are described as anti-semites because they disagree with the Israeli lobby in the United States. And they are clearly not anti-semites, they are Jews that disagree with AIPAC.
Right now, Obamabots do not like Clintonistas, but few of them are calling each other anti-democrats. Two years ago, many progressives did not like Joe Lieberman or his supporters but they did not call him an anti-democrat nor did Lieberman's gang call the progressives anti-democrats.
Apart from feminist issues, I don't see a whole lot of other groups out there referring to people who are within that group but disagree as "anti". In feminism we have pro-life and pro-choice, but I have seen pro-choice groups get very upset with the connotation that they are somehow pro-death. And they have tried to label the other side as "anti-choice."
I believe this trend by some feminists to quickly refer to people who disagree with them as anti-feminists or self-hating women or misandrists is keeping feminism back. A refusal to acknowledge and address the gray issues and the real issues is what the rest of the world sees when it often rejects feminism and feminists.
Oddly, I do find I completely agree with sex-positive and sex-negative and I agree 1000% with your examples comparing Twisty and the Orthodox Church and Pandagon as sex negative.
I have seen and caught this myself (lurking or getting tossed out of various blogs).
Here is a scene from the Music Man that I think quite nicely demonstrates how the closeness of many modern feminists and the Church.The Music Man: Pick a little
Thanks for your post, and best wishes.
It comes down to name-calling versus describing, I guess, though its a subtle point.
I don't think I'd be offering much of a critique if I merely labeled the other side "sex-negative feminists" and left it at that. Or challenged their very right to call themselves "radical feminists", even if I may take issue with how "radical" much of their ideology is.
If I offer a critique that's "this is where radical feminism has some ideas that really are sex-negative and here's why", then that's a critique, even a scathing one, but goes beyond mere name-calling.
"I believe this trend by some feminists to quickly refer to people who disagree with them as anti-feminists or self-hating women or misandrists is keeping feminism back."
Well, actually, the feminists would be referring to their opponents as "misogynists" rather than "misandrists". But your point is well-taken, and I think "misandrist" actually provides a good example of terms that automatically get people's backs up. Use that term on many feminist boards, and you automatically get painted as an "anti-feminist" or "MRA" without the substance of what you said being addressed at all.
The thing is, barring really blatant attempts to be offensive, not using a particular term because it gets somebody's back up is ultimately futile, because some people are always going to be looking for a reason to get their back up over something. Case in point: this rather ridiculous piece of sexism-baiting against Barack Obama that made the rounds of the pro-Clinton feminist blogosphere last month. Some people clearly have their decoder rings set to maximum and have a need to read offense into everything.
because some people are always going to be looking for a reason to get their back up over something ... Some people clearly have their decoder rings set to maximum and have a need to read offense into everything.
And I agree with that too. Keeping the decoder rings at 11 and taking offense at everything makes it much easier to avoid having to think.
(And thank you for the correction wrt: misandrist and misogyny. Damn this feminist carnival -- I need to stop reading and get to work.)
Totally agree with this post, IACB. Well said. We *do* live in a sex-negative culture.
Nit-pick for commenter anon: I do think the term "misandrist" is basically bullshit. It's such a loaded, reactionary word.
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