You heard the new Papoose single with Busta? Swizz Beat? "Flipmode/ Streetsweepers yeaaaahhhhh/ You look nice/ Who did your hair?" Bringing New York back? Back to crack maybe.
Tru Life and Saigon in a month is like the only thing that can save New York now. A Fabolous follow-up, a decent Cam'ron album, Mobb Deep, M.O.P and maybe something from Kweli. But the labels aren't taking a chance on that all falling into place and they damn sure won't allign to bring New York back. So basically it's a stand-off between the labels. I can only see 50 Cent dropping his New York product in the near future.
I like Corey Gunz though. He's not ready, but I like him.
Eh....I hear what you're sayin about NYHH, and I respect it and like it better than most Southern Hip-hop, but honestly, NYC cats gotta let go. Stop declaring that every new track is the next thing and will "bring NY back on the map."
Make hot beats. Make hot songs. Stop beefin' and holding stupid press conferences. Up the game and the people will follow.
you do realize that you just made an analogy that effectively compares southern hip-hop in 2005 to the Sgt Pepper album and Jimi Hendrix?
You really think the modern southern hip-hop movement is creatively "splitting wigs"? And moreso than the east coast's beatsmiths (Gang Starr, Pete Rock, Diamond D...) in their prime?
LOL, Mizz. The point of the analogy I was trying to draw was more that music has moved on and those stuck in the past are looking increasingly irrelevant.
id rather hear a charlie brown dis record...im surprised charlie brown never made any noise. after he repped on flex's 'nuttin but flavor', i always thought he'd be around
Seeing the Clipse listed here on the Southern side of that line is yet another illustration of why this East vs. South binary has never had any relevance to me. The Clipse deliver everything I'd want from "NY Style hip-hop", who cares if they're actually from NY or not?
Jay, I thought someone would try to claim Clipse as being non-Southern. Admittedly there's an argument to be made that they do muddy the line somewhat but c'mon, their overall sound and aesthetic really has little to do with the classic NYC/East Coast sound people say has disappeared.
The Neptunes sound is not East Coast oriented period and outside of maybe Criminal Minded and some early 808-heavy Marley Marl productions like Paid In Full, in my mind the Clipse sound and world view has more in common with the Cash Money, Young Jeezy, ATL minimalist Snap music and Trap Hop asethetics than anything that went ever went on in NYC.
Put on Lord Willin' next to Low End Theory, Mecca and the Soul Brother, Daily Operation, Illmatic, Ready to Die, One For All, Breakin' Atoms, Takes A Nation Of Millions etc. and it's pretty clear which one doesn't fit in. At least to me.
ian why are you defining new york by 10 albums that are a decade or more old?
better question: how does lord willin stand up against the blueprint and get rich or die trying?
Well yes, we totally disagree. Mainly in that I don't separate the music in this either/or binary.. I think music can embody both east coast/NY traditions and southern sensibilities simultaneously, and the clipse is probably a good example of that.
So labels like "east coast oriented" don't even really fit with my worldviewm, but for example, as far as the neptunes sound not fitting in with the sensibilities/tastes of someone who grew up on NY boom-bap? Hell yeah I disagree! 
I mean, what was Grindin if not Come Clean part 2!
and yeah, this "does it sound exactly like low end theory or nation of millions" standard doesn't add up.. by that standard Papoose (who bores me, incidentally) isn't NY hip-hop either.
The Clipse and the neptunes give me hard beats that make my head nod and intricately structured and deftly delivered verses laid on top.. everything I would want from "ny hip-hop," and everything east coast purists would say is missing from crunk et al...
Especially in terms of their emceeing, it's when you put them alongside folks like D4L, Mike Jones, of DFB that they
Clipse sound completely out of place, and would make much more sense even next to the dated NY reference points you cite.
also worth noting, a clipse track was featured in the link you offered here as music for nostalgic east coast heads.
Can't get into it now (@ work) but I'm gonna address all these points and any others made by whomever jumps in tonight.
> ian why are you defining new York by 10 albums that are a decade or more old?
Because those are some of the defining albums of the classic East Coast/NYC sound. Since then what: BIG, Hov and 50?? As great as Ready to Die was it was, by Puff's own admission, their attempt to make an East Coast version of The Chronic. 50 is an NYC MC who's been as influenced by southern hip hop culture as anything in his backyard (which is part of the reason I think he's been so successful) and whose defining album was Exec-produced by a Midwesterner and a west coast producers. As for Jay, dude has admitted that he's a huge fan of Scarface and UGK (and is the reason most of you youngsters jock Bun B in the first place, don't front) and has cribbed liberally from regional, non-east coast artists for slang and production ideas on his albums.
This is part of the reason NYC fell off in my mind. There is no definable East Coast sound any more outside of LA-born Alchemist and Just Blaze who is a half-keyboard, half sample-driven producer. Hov's Blueprint is as close as anyone has come to realizing a modern era classic east coast record but where's everyone else?? Beanie Sigel made a record worthy of an east coast music fan's attention and it bricked - nobody cared. On the less grimy side the most heralded post-Native Tongues artists come from... Chicago and Durham, NC!!
Getting back to the Clipse, they can spit as good as any of the east coast's finest but on the strength of Neptunes leftfield production, I still say that their overall sound is closer to what's going in the South than anything considered East Coast and stands out as being uniquely apart from either of those albums Noixe cited.
I'm not a fan of Papoose as an MC myself (though think he's a great songwriter and conceptualist) but I can at least see a more or less direct link from what he does back to whomever: Nas, Mobb Deep or any other defining street MC's from NYC. I see that connect much less so with The Clipse (although admittedly I have often thought they come off flow-wise like a thugged out Camp Lo). Again, its more about their production just not fitting into any of the paradigms that make up the "East Coast" sound outside of, very loosely, the examples I mentioned above. (continued in next post below...)
> also worth noting, a Clipse track was featured in the link you offered here as music for nostalgic east coast heads.
Which is why is said "East Coast-ish." I mean Saafir, Ahmed and Ras Kass ain't exactly from the East coast either.
> Well yes, we totally disagree. Mainly in that I don't separate the music in this either/or binary.. I think music can embody both east coast/NY traditions and southern sensibilities simultaneously, and the clipse is probably a good example of that.
But we don't totally disagree. That is why I started by saying: "Admittedly there's an argument to be made that they do muddy the line...."
To sum up though: again, I just think NYC hip hop has lost any sense of uniqueness or definable identity. If I'm missing something that proves me wrong, let me know.
I think that North/South stuff is all bull sh!t! It's good rap and wack joints no matter where an artist is from. And if we talking New Yawk rap, then NO the Clipse are not! But since when is NY only equals East Coast rap? YES the Clipse is strictly EAST COAST!!! Philly is not New York but it is definitely East coast. so is Boston, Jersey and YES; VA, DC, and Maryland they may be in the "South" but culture and style is heavily influenced by NYC. And if you look at VA's past emcees such as Skillz (definitely East Coast) & Wu Tang Clan's proteges Wu Syndicate. The music is only Southern by location.
Watch out for the Mid-Atlantic AKA the Middle East Coast! AKA DMV
Delaware/Maryland/DC/Virginia
And also How would you all classify North Carolina's Hip-Hop purist team: Little Brother & the Just Us League?
Definitely not ya Petey Pablo, shirt spinnin' crunksters!
Get at me!
One
Watch out for the Mid-Atlantic AKA the Middle East Coast! AKA DMV
Delaware/Maryland/DC/Virginia
And also How would you all classify North Carolina's Hip-Hop purist team: Little Brother & the Just Us League?
Definitely not ya Petey Pablo, shirt spinnin' crunksters!
Get at me!
One
i agree with the statement that clipse don't really fit the mold of either NY rap or southern rap.
and fully agree with d-law.
when you think about how fast information travels from city to city (internet, phone, tv, etc) it's not really surprising that the major artists from across the country (and the world) are borrowing from different hoods and even different genres (gnarls barkley, andre 3000, pharrell, whatever). i think that eventually there will be alot less regionalism in rap, many artists don't fit into a particular cookie cutter category like, East Coast,West Coast, Bay, South, Midwest, etc.... i.e. clipse.
and my man, how can you say pap is boring? and not NY?
i think his world play and, delivery (speed, internal rhyme, etc) are great. i don't think he's really a good storyteller though. the best usually are: jay, nas, pac, big.
abd if he's not NY, maybe we should talk about what exactly NY rap is.
.... but papoose's get right single does suck. i hate when labels make the artists water down their shit for radio play.
Very nice resource--thank you. lieben und sie qualen erotik spielzeug muster ausfuhrlicher lebenslauf
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