++
WoW..
a lot was accomplished by 2005.. much sorrow would follow, fortunately AQ
et al has been defeated.. hence, much more progress has been made since
then..
2 article's (in Arabic) via Hameed Abid @ ITM..
five-star hotel and commercial Mall
Baghdad life - 12/08/08
==
++
via MNF.. (also available in Arabic)
via FJI.. (videos)
==
Iraq to resume oil exploration after 20 year pause
http://www.reuters.com/article/
G...lBrandChannel=0
Hahahahahaha - fucked up Mojo,
Sunnis Bad, shiites good, saddam bad, amerikkka good,
Go mojo go, go sniff for your bone...
How's team Layla doing these days? It's not too late to put on a miniskirt and pretend to be Italian, you know...
"saddam bad, amerikkka good"
Sky blue, grass green. What would we do without brainiacs like Layla?
Hahahahahaha - fucked up Layla,
Democracy Bad, authoritarianism good, Saddam good, amerikkka bad,
Go Layla go, go sniff for your bone...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ica/
7556713.stm
South Africa's high court has ruled that camps housing foreigners displaced by xenophobic violence in May can be shut down.
The judge said the authorities had no obligation to reintegrate more than 4,000 African immigrants living in the camps around Johannesburg.
Where you at, Bruno?
Thanks for posting this, Iraqi Mojo!
Craig's battle-buddies hard at work:
"Staff Sergeant Tyrone Luther Hadnott, 38, was arrested on Monday over allegations that he raped a 14-year-old girl in his car on the island, which is home to thousands of US troops.
He has admitted trying to forcibly kiss her but denied raping her. News reports on Wednesday said that Hadnott had a Japanese wife and told police he did not know the girl was underage.
The incident rekindled memories of the gang-rape in 1995 of a 12-year-old girl by three US Marines, which set off major protests on the island and set in motion a process to reduce the number of US troops there."
http://www.citizen.co.za/index/
a...03.kvklc58x.xml
Are *you* into gang-rape of little girls, Craig?
Common sort of behaviour for your average Marine, is it?
Ron Paul poll results: 100% of Iraqis polled think that perhaps 70% of Iraqis not polled want the U.S. to withdrawal.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06...raq-parliament/
"V, Ali al-Fadhily and Dahr Jamail are sectarian sunni arabs." anand
__________________
Oh really anand? Gee, I thought Dahr was raised by foster parents and was a PRESBYTERIAN!!! But you say he is a sunni...LOL Listen, don't you get tired of the BS?
v | Homepage | 08.12.08 - 11:56 pm | #
Craig calls Marion a stupid cunt.
Yeah, Craig is a great and mighty Christian! 
Why IS Dahr Jamail biased? If he was really concerned about Iraqis, why was he hiking in Alaska while Iraqis were being mass murdered by Saddam's regime?
DJ, you may as well stop commenting with all the type in names. We know it is you.
DJ, you may as well stop commenting with all the type in names. We know it is you.
Bruno,
Are *you* into gang-rape of little girls, Craig?
Common sort of behaviour for your average Marine, is it?
Yeah, Bruno. I guess 2 incidents in 13 years counts as "common" in that pea-brain of yours. Whereas, 58 rapes of children in South Africa every day is not.
By the way, DJ, you are another one that anand and Mojo asked everyone to be nice to. Look how you repay them?
"Yeah, Craig is a great and mighty Christian!"
It would be nice if DJ were knowledgable about something. Anything at all. As far as I can tell,he/she can just copy and paste articles by morans who want to be the next Michael Moore.
FYI DJ. There's no biblical command not to use bad words....even if your mommy says different.
It's not your language ladies. It's YOUR bullying hatefulness that reveals craig and Maury as poser so-called "christian" hypocrites.
You guys are like Hagee "war christians".
I've never posted michael moore type articles. 
I'm a Chomsky/Parenti gal.
"I'm a Chomsky/Parenti gal."
And my former boyfriend....LOL.
I'm a Chomsky/Parenti gal.
I guess you are prolly a "Y" chromosome gal too, eh? :P
KEY IMAGES: A book titled, "Economics," with a picture of McCain on the cover. The book flips open to pictures of McCain and President Bush smiling, soldiers walking in a field, an Iraqi old rig and a factory gate with a lock holding it shut.
ANALYSIS: Obama tries to tie McCain's support for the war in Iraq to America's faltering economy and high gas prices, all while linking McCain to Bush, whose popularity is at historic lows. Obama's campaign has spent much of the summer trying to portray McCain as running for a third Bush term, with limited success.
High gas prices and the sluggish economy have replaced the unpopular war as the campaign's top issue. Obama is trying to link them by blaming McCain for all the above.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2...ama-
Adwatch.php
"ABC News reported Tuesday that Siddiqui had been carrying maps of New York and a list of potential terrorism targets, including the Statue of Liberty, Times Square, the subway system and an animal disease center, when she was taken into custody.
On Wednesday, the network reported that Siddiqui also was plotting to kill former Presidents Carter and Bush and to attack the White House."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26145135/
Sounds like a fruitcake.
[maury] "As far as I can tell,he/she can just copy and paste articles by morans who want to be the next Michael Moore."
When referring to people as morons, please ensure that you spell 'moron' correctly.
Spelling "moron" as "moran" clearly indicates one's status as one of the former.
Sir, consider yourself duly reprimanded.
Bruno, please don't use type in names even just to be funny. There are enough problems with that on this blog without you doing it too.
Since this IS an Iraqi blog, here's some news revealing again the shameful fiction of a supposedly united "national" ISF:
""Kurdish commanders Wednesday refused orders to pull their troops out of Kurdish-populated areas of ethnically divided Diyala province, challenging the authority of Baghdad. The 4,000 strong brigade will withdraw only when ordered to do so by the president of the Kurdish autonomous region in northern Iraq, Massud Barzani, its commander General Nazel Kirkuki told AFP. "The commander of Iraqi ground forces, General Ali Ghidan, asked us to withdraw our forces from the north of Diyala province on August 10 but we've received no order from the presidency of autonomous Kurdistan," Kirkuki said.""
http://www.terra.net.lb/wp/Artic...504&
ChannelId=4
Doubtless ANAND will explain soon enough how Kurds refusing to obey Maliki fit into his fantasy of a united "Iraqi Army".
Bruno, those are Peshmerga troops you reference. They aren't part of the Iraqi national Army. And I guess you missed the word "autonomous" in your own quote? You do know what the word "autonomous" means, don't you? With all this talk about Georgia's autonomous regions you've been doing lately, I'd think it would penetrate even your alcoholic brain by now.
Must really suck to be not only a propagandist, but an incompetent propagandist, huh?
"When referring to people as morons, please ensure that you spell 'moron' correctly."
Haven't I told you before Bruno...I prefer moran.....which is a moron on steroids.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/...blpic-
moran.htm
"And I guess you missed the word "autonomous" in your own quote? You do know what the word "autonomous" means, don't you?"
Sure. Autonomous is what Kurdistan is, even while Maliki and the Kurds pretend that it isn't. Because of the big, bad Turks, you see.
Which is precisely the point of my post: that the armed forces in Iraq are not "united" or any such crap, but SECTARIAN and ETHNICALLY DIVIDED. Thank you for finally noticing. This isn't the first time the Kurds have told Maliki to piss off, btw. During the "Charge of the Knights" campaign, they likewise refused to provide troops to him.
"When called upon to take part in Maliki's "Battle of Basra," Kurdish units, based in the north, refused. Kurdish commanders and soldiers consider their mission to be the security of the Kurdish autonomous region and defense of Kurdish rights in adjacent areas claimed by the Kurds. The Kurds' profession of allegiance to Iraq amounts to no more than lip service."
http://www.godubai.com/
gulftoday...ection=Features
Tried your link Bruno. As fascinating as Filipina aircraft cleaners can be,wtf do they have to do with the Peshmerga?
"Political sources in Kirkuk confirmed that a large number of Peshmerga fighters were sent to Basrah and fought alongside the GZG army."
http://gorillasguides.com/2008/0...b9%d9%85%d9%84/
Must have changed, Maury. It worked when I first read it at the time it was all going down. Here's the full article:
"raqis got Tyranny in the name of liberation
MICHAEL JANSEN
Tomorrow is the fifth anniversary of the fall of Baghdad to US forces and of the toppling of the statue of Saddam Hussein at Firdus Square at the heart of the city. For many Iraqis this was a day of liberation. But they were bitterly deceived. Instead of liberation they received a tyranny worse than that imposed by Saddam. This is the tyranny created by foreign occupation, insecurity, anarchy, chaos, corruption, and mismanagement. George W. Bush is more hated than Saddam and the five-year US occupation has been more brutal and destructive than the 35-year rule of the Baath.
If Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki had presumed to erect a statue of himself at any square anywhere in Iraq it would have been torn down long ago by Iraqis angry and frustrated over his broken promises and refusal to promote national reconciliation. Last week he went a step further: he made flip-flops which exposed him as a straw man as well as one who does not honour his commitments. On Thursday he announced he would order the Iraqi army to take action in Baghdad and elsewhere with the aim of crushing the Mahdi Army militia loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada Al Sadr. On Friday, Maliki ordered an Iraq-wide freeze on army raids against Shiite militiamen. On Sunday more than 20 people were killed in Baghdad's Sadr City district when US and Iraqi forces attacked Sadrist fighters there; they retaliated by firing missiles into the US-fortified Green Zone and a Baghdad US military base, killing three US soldiers.
Maliki has no choice but to come to terms with the Sadrists because he does not have the military muscle to defeat them. The Mahdi Army struck the "new Iraqi army" a serious blow during recent clashes in Basra, the south, and Baghdad. At least 1,500 soldiers of the 28,000 deployed deserted while locally recruited police either fled or joined the Sadrists. Those who deserted or switched sides shamed and humiliated Maliki, George W. Bush who initially congratulated him on taking action and the US military in Iraq, which gave the Iraqi forces logistical, air, and even ground support. But still the army lost.
The Bush administration's reaction was as typical as it was pathetic: it denied that it had anything to do with Maliki's misbegotten offensive. Having taken on the Sadrists in pitched battle, Maliki, the administration and the US command in Iraq should have learnt several valuable lessons from the Basra debacle. They should now understand that the "new Iraqi army" is not ready for major actions. This is because it is not a national army. It consists largely of separate units of Kurdish peshmerga and Shiite Badr Corps militia (the military wing of the Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council, SIIC)). Therefore, the "army" is comprised of militiamen who have put on offici
Try posting that full article again:
Iraqis got Tyranny in the name of liberation
MICHAEL JANSEN
Tomorrow is the fifth anniversary of the fall of Baghdad to US forces and of the toppling of the statue of Saddam Hussein at Firdus Square at the heart of the city. For many Iraqis this was a day of liberation. But they were bitterly deceived. Instead of liberation they received a tyranny worse than that imposed by Saddam. This is the tyranny created by foreign occupation, insecurity, anarchy, chaos, corruption, and mismanagement. George W. Bush is more hated than Saddam and the five-year US occupation has been more brutal and destructive than the 35-year rule of the Baath.
If Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki had presumed to erect a statue of himself at any square anywhere in Iraq it would have been torn down long ago by Iraqis angry and frustrated over his broken promises and refusal to promote national reconciliation. Last week he went a step further: he made flip-flops which exposed him as a straw man as well as one who does not honour his commitments. On Thursday he announced he would order the Iraqi army to take action in Baghdad and elsewhere with the aim of crushing the Mahdi Army militia loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada Al Sadr. On Friday, Maliki ordered an Iraq-wide freeze on army raids against Shiite militiamen. On Sunday more than 20 people were killed in Baghdad's Sadr City district when US and Iraqi forces attacked Sadrist fighters there; they retaliated by firing missiles into the US-fortified Green Zone and a Baghdad US military base, killing three US soldiers.
Maliki has no choice but to come to terms with the Sadrists because he does not have the military muscle to defeat them. The Mahdi Army struck the "new Iraqi army" a serious blow during recent clashes in Basra, the south, and Baghdad. At least 1,500 soldiers of the 28,000 deployed deserted while locally recruited police either fled or joined the Sadrists. Those who deserted or switched sides shamed and humiliated Maliki, George W. Bush who initially congratulated him on taking action and the US military in Iraq, which gave the Iraqi forces logistical, air, and even ground support. But still the army lost.
The Bush administration's reaction was as typical as it was pathetic: it denied that it had anything to do with Maliki's misbegotten offensive. Having taken on the Sadrists in pitched battle, Maliki, the administration and the US command in Iraq should have learnt several valuable lessons from the Basra debacle. They should now understand that the "new Iraqi army" is not ready for major actions. This is because it is not a national army. It consists largely of separate units of Kurdish peshmerga and Shiite Badr Corps militia (the military wing of the Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council, SIIC)). Therefore, the "army" is comprised of militiamen who have put on official uniforms and received training and weapons from the US. Most have joined these
I wonder why Bruno thinks it is so awful that the peshmerga don't follow the orders of the Iraqi government? Why would Bruno want to change the way things are done in the ONE PART of Iraq that has been peaceful ever since 2003? I'm sure Bruno (being Bruno) has nothing but the best of intentions, there.... right, Bruno?
Bruno | Homepage | 08.14.08 - 8:24 am | #
Wow! That old article from March shows just how much wishful thinking there was/is for an Iraqi defeat! Little did they dream that Maliki was going to crush the Sadrists in short order!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ope/
7561926.stm
After Russia's involvement in Georgia, Polish officials said, Washington has come round to their way of thinking.
Unlike the US, Poland sees Russia as a bigger threat to its security than so-called "rogue states" such as Iran, our correspondent adds.
Happy now, Bruno?
Another atrocity by Layla's and Bruno's heroic resistance. A woman blew herself up among Pilgrims heading for Karbala for the festival celebrating the birth of the 12th Shiite Iman, Mohammed al-Mahdi.
See
"Female Suicide Bomber kills 26 in Iraq: Bombs target Shiite Pilgrims south of Baghdad during major religious festival" at http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...in4351077.shtml
for the entire story.
David,
Who are they "resisting" in Lebanon? It makes you wonder doesn't it, seeing as Lebanon is not even being occupied by any foreign forces...
http://ap.google.com/article/
ALe...1BRwhQD92HCA7O0
TRIPOLI, Lebanon (AP) — A bomb ripped through a bus carrying civilians and members of the Lebanese military during Wednesday morning rush hour in the northern city of Tripoli, killing 18 people and wounding 46, security officials said.
The officials said the dead included 10 off-duty soldiers, from a bomb planted on the side of a main street that detonated as the bus passed. The streets were filled with people heading to work, which contributed to the many casualties, the officials said.
David All, Bruno supports violent attacks against the IA and IP. However Bruno insists he opposes terrorist attacks directed against civilians.
I would only use the phrase "Bruno's heroic resistance" to describe violent attacks against the ISF, and not use the phrase to describe attacks against civilians.
One might ask the same question in regards to Algeria...
http://english.aljazeera.net/
new...8261163803.html
Bruno, Layla? Any thoughts as to why they are targeting these countries? Who are they trying to drive out?
[david] "Another atrocity by Layla's and Bruno's heroic resistance."
Sounds like the US-recruited Al Qaedists are getting back into the game of killing Shia.
[ch] "David, Who are they "resisting" in Lebanon?"
Hmm. Sounds like the quasi Al Qaedists that the US scraped together in Lebanon, to try and fight Hezbollah.
[ch] "Bruno, Layla? Any thoughts as to why they are targeting these countries?"
Sounds like Al Qaeda types to me. Algeria has had a long fight with these sorts.
Although it just about chokes me to say it, Anand has a point here:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...?
a=46286#300653
Bruno, are you drunk again? The Al Qaida types are yours, not ours. How could you forget!?
Off topic, but mojo... what do you think of this?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20080...ssination_teams
Although it just about chokes me to say it, Anand has a point here:
No, he doesn't. he's just patronizing you. Your guys kill both Iraqi civilian and Iraqi police/military indiscriminately, and they always have. it's not possible for you to distance yourself from part of what they do while supporting another part. No matter what anand says. And nobody what kind of rhetoric you use to assuage your own guilty conscience... if you even have one.
"Sounds like the US-recruited Al Qaedists are getting back into the game of killing Shia." -Bruno
What? Don't be stupid you lying fuck.
"Oceania has always been at war with East Asia!"
The U.S. did not create Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The U.S. does not support Al Qaeda in Iraq. Your attempt to rewrite history is pathetic and wrong.
How come K gets to call Bruno a stupid lying fuck, but when I say the same thing about Marion who is at least as stupid as Bruno if not more, all hell breaks loose?
Come to think of it, I've been insulting Bruno for years and nobody has ever complained. What's the deal?
"Iraqi Shiite assassination teams are being trained in at least four locations in Iran by Tehran's elite Quds force and Lebanese Hezbollah and are planning to return to Iraq in the next few months to kill specific Iraqi officials as well as U.S. and Iraqi troops, according to intelligence gleaned from captured militia fighters and other sources in Iraq."
Thanks for the link, Craig. This does not surprise me.
Bruno is smart Craig. He supports violent attacks against the ISF and GoI with open eyes. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Marion is different. She does not fully understand what she writes and the articles she cites. She does not fully realize the logical extentions of what she believes. {She simultaneously believes something and its opposite.}
I still don't think Marion is badly intentioned. Only a confused rather than malevelant person would genuinely believe that Mossad might be behind many terrorist attacks against Iraqi civilians.
By contrast, Bruno purposely misleeds, provokes, and goads. He genuinely wants the GoI, IA, and IP to be defeated. He knowingly lies about the Iraqi army frequently in order to discredit them.
It's strange to see Shia yelling "illegal invasion" as if they'd gladly take Saddam back.
[craig] "Come to think of it, I've been insulting Bruno for years and nobody has ever complained."
Because your insults are sub-par kiddie efforts. I rather enjoy them. It reinforces my image of haughty mental superiority over you. Please don't stop.
"What's the deal?" -Craig
Craig, I thought you might ask that.
Marion is a reasonable, respectable, though confused, elder married women.
Bruno on the other hand is a lying fuck.
That's the difference.
[anand] "By contrast, Bruno purposely misleeds,"
You mean misleads. No, I don't.
[anand] "provokes, and goads."
Guilty as charged.
[anand] "He genuinely wants the GoI, IA, and IP to be defeated."
Not really. They're irrelevant, because they are sectarian. What I really want is the occupier to be ejected.
[anand] "He knowingly lies about the Iraqi army frequently in order to discredit them."
Nonsense.
'BAGHDAD: More than 19 Shi'ite pilgrims heading to the holy city of Karbala for a religious festival were among 26 people killed yesterday as a spate of bomb blasts rocked Iraq.
More than 18 were killed in a double attack by two women suicide bombers who blew themselves up among a crowd of pilgrims heading to the city, police said.
The women detonated their explosives-packed vests 50 yards apart and at a five-minute interval in Iskandiriyah 60km south of the capital.
The twin suicide attack left at least 75 more wounded, 13 of whom were in a serious condition.
Earlier, another Shi'ite pilgrim was killed and seven others wounded by a roadside bomb in Baghdad's commercial district of Karrada as they set off for Karbala, 110km south of Baghdad for Sunday's festival.'
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/S...L&
IssueID=31148
'Witnesses interviewed in an Iskandariyah hospital spoke of horrific scenes of mangled flesh and screaming victims.
Khazim Jabir, 39, from the Baghdad neighborhood of Hurriyah, said he was walking near a group of pilgrims receiving food and water when he heard a thunderous explosion.
"Seconds later, I saw fire and flaying pieces of flesh," he said. "I fell down and I was able to see one of my legs bleeding. People were running in all directions."
Yassir Ibrahim, 28, also from Baghdad, said his hands were injured by the blast.
"I don't understand the reason for attacking us," he said. "We were only heading to a holy place."
Earlier Thursday, at least two people were killed and 16 wounded in a pair of small bombings in Baghdad that police believed were targeting pilgrims.
Every year since the 2003 collapse of Saddam Hussein's Sunni-dominated regime, hundreds of thousands of Shiites have celebrated religious festivals — and Sunni extremists have often targeted them.
Last month, three women suicide bombers attacked Shiite pilgrims during a festival in Baghdad, killing at least 32 people and wounding more than 100.
No group claimed responsibility for the Thursday blast, but attacks on Shiites have been associated with the Sunni extremist al-Qaida in Iraq.
However, U.S. spokesman Lt. Col. Steven Stover said at least one of the Baghdad bombings was believed carried out by Iranian-backed Shiite extremists "in an attempt to heighten public unrest."
With security concerns on the rise, the Iraqi military announced a series of measures aimed at protecting pilgrims and tamping down sectarian tensions during the festival period.
Iraqi military spokesman Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi said members of the Shiite-dominated security force were banned from placing religious posters on their vehicles or joining pilgrims in chanting Shiite slogans — moves that might provoke Sunnis.'
http://ap.google.com/article/
ALe...s98w8wD92IAAA80
[craig] "Bruno, are you drunk again? The Al Qaida types are yours, not ours."
[k] "The U.S. did not create Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The U.S. does not support Al Qaeda in Iraq."
Awww. Some people are a little hazy on the details.
Must I refresh the memories of you woebegotten little munchkins?
Remind you how the US has recruited Al Qaeda members in Iraq, and paid them too? Must I remind you of how the US did, in fact, help create Al Qaeda in Afghanistan together with the Pakistani ISI? Must I remind you of how the US has, in fact, glorified Al Qaeda aligned groups when it suits its interests?
[k] "Your attempt to rewrite history is pathetic and wrong."
Well, this article makes it clear that the US is working with quasi Al Qaedists against Iran:
Preparing the Battlefield
The Bush Administration steps up its secret moves against Iran.
by Seymour M. Hersh July 7, 2008
"The use of Baluchi elements, for example, is problematic, Robert Baer, a former C.I.A. clandestine officer who worked for nearly two decades in South Asia and the Middle East, told me. “The Baluchis are Sunni fundamentalists who hate the regime in Tehran, but you can also describe them as Al Qaeda,” Baer told me. “These are guys who cut off the heads of nonbelievers—in this case, it’s Shiite Iranians. The irony is that we’re once again working with Sunni fundamentalists, just as we did in Afghanistan in the nineteen-eighties.” Ramzi Yousef, who was convicted for his role in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who is considered one of the leading planners of the September 11th attacks, are Baluchi Sunni fundamentalists."
Sure, that's against Iran. But what about hiring Al Qaedists in Iraq, as I said? This makes it sound like an accident:
Probe: Iraqi teen bomber sent by family
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer Mon Jan 21, 4:18 PM ET
"But the military has acknowledged concerns that some members could retain allegiances to al-Qaida, particularly if they were former insurgents themselves. Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, a U.S. military spokesman, said members were carefully screened and must pledge to renounce violence before being accepted. "That's not to say that al-Qaida has not found a way to infiltrate some members, some groups, that clearly could be the case," Smith said Sunday, referring to the Sunni movements."
But Badger makes it clear that it is not an 'accident':
"[A security source] who asked that his name not e disclosed said: "The security situation in Diyala has ecome fragile since the permission for armed-group members who were formerly loyal to AlQaeda to take over and control certain areas in spite of the existence of the Awakening Councils. He warned that once these militias armed by the Americans are able to control these majority-Shiite areas, the result will be a return to sectarian hatred and assassinations and kidnappings. The security source said there have already been official turnovers of control from the Americans to so-called "Popular Committees" of [some of these majority-Shiite areas], a process facilitated by having popular-committee people hired by the provincial security apparatus."
http://arablinks.blogspot.com/20...s-keep-
pot.html
And this article makes it clear that the US DID IN FACT KNOW who it was hiring and that some of those people it hired are 'bad apples' to this day:
" "When the SOIs stood up, we were basically hiring terrorists," said Lt. Justin Chabalko, using the military acronym for the Sons of Iraq. Chabalko's 2-4 Infantry Battalion of the 4th Brigade, 10th Mountain Division frequently patrols the Dora Market. The Sons of Iraq was formed in 2007, when Sunni tribal leaders, tired of violence and disillusioned with Islamic fundamentalists such as al-Qaida in Iraq, encouraged tribal members -- including some former militia members -- to guard Sunni and mixed neighborhoods against takeover by sectarian gangs.[...] Several months ago, the 2-4's soldiers detained one Sons of Iraq leader who was once associated with al-Qaida in Iraq, Tellado said. "He had a bad background, and it finally caught up with him," he explained. "There was a possibility that he was still active" in the extremist Sunni organization. The man is now in Camp Bucca, a giant American detention center in southern Iraq."Sometimes they don't reform," Tellado said. "
http://www.stumbleupon.com/submi...20terrorists%
22
I'll refrain from the insults, K.
I think you have enough to digest for now.
"Remind you how the US has recruited Al Qaeda members in Iraq, and paid them too?"
Bullshit.
"Must I remind you of how the US did, in fact, help create Al Qaeda in Afghanistan together with the Pakistani ISI?"
Bullshit.
"Must I remind you of how the US has, in fact, glorified Al Qaeda aligned groups when it suits its interests?"
Bullshit.
"Well, this article makes it clear that the US is working with quasi Al Qaedists against Iran:"
WTF is a "quasi" Al Qaedist? Is that anything like a quasi punk ass liar?
"permission for armed-group members who were formerly loyal to AlQaeda"
YOUR hewoes Bruno. You claimed to only support the Sunni resistance that shot only at the filthy amreekans. The Sunni resistance groups we co-opted broke with Al Qaida because they were against attacks on civilians and ISF. You can't have it both ways Bruno. If we're hypocrites,you beat us to the punch....by years.
[bruno] "Remind you how the US has recruited Al Qaeda members in Iraq, and paid them too?"
[maury] Bullshit.
Ol' Maury baby can't read English.
It's all just been posted. A bitter pill, son, but you'll just have to swallow it.
Bruno's sources are almost as deceitful as he is, which is saying something. You'd need a shit bowl the size of Kansas to flush down all the crap Seymour Hersh has written about Iraq. Here's what some reliable experts on Al Qaeda have written:
Charges that America created the bin Laden network “are not supported by the evidence” (Peter Bergen). The charges are “not true” and CIA funds “went exclusively to the Afghan mujahideen groups, not the Arab volunteers” (Jason Burke). Bin Laden was “outside of CIA eyesight” and there is “no record of any direct contact” (Steve Coll). The idea is “sheer fantasy” and “Bin Laden and al-Zawahiri denied receiving any US aid, support or training” (Marc Sageman). There is “no support” in any “reliable source” for “the claim that the CIA funded bin Laden or any of the other Arab volunteers who came to support the mujahideen” (Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin).
Jason Burke's book, I should add, was even lauded by Noam Chomsky, unofficial head of the hate-America cult.
As for the ISF being sectarian, Shia and Sunni soldiers fought together to rid Basra of the JAM thugs who were terrorizing the city. Wikipedia says:
Kurdish and Sunni political parties expressed support for the operation. Massoud Barzani, the head of the Kurdish controlled region offered Kurdish troops to help fight the Madhi Army. The Sunni Vice President, Tariq al-Hashemi signed a joint statement between the Kurdish President, Jalal Talabani and the Shi'ite Vice President, Adil Abdul-Mahdi, expressing support for the Basra operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat...of_Basra_(200![](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Basra_(200<img src="http://www.haloscan.com/images/smileys/soleil.gif" border="0" alt="" width="15" height="15" />){kind=small}
Several months ago, the 2-4's soldiers detained one Sons of Iraq leader who was once associated with al-Qaida in Iraq, Tellado said. "He had a bad background, and it finally caught up with him," he explained. "There was a possibility that he was still active" in the extremist Sunni organization. The man is now in Camp Bucca, a giant American detention center in southern Iraq."Sometimes they don't reform," Tellado said."
So a bad apple infiltrated the SoI and the US military arrested him when they found out. That's supposed to prove the US were purposely recruiting Al Qaeda? Geez, you'd suppose people would think for half a minute for posting stuff. Given that the prime purpose of Al Qaeda is fighting against "Jews and Crusaders", the very idea that a member of AQI would work for the US is a contradiction in terms. "Ally of the US" means "not Al Qaeda" by definition.
"It's all just been posted"
When will you learn Bruno? Being on the internet,and being true....are not necessarily the same thing. If I post an article that says Bush is the second coming of Christ,does that mean it's a fact?
"Long ago relegated to the memory hole are uncomfortable facts: Gen. Akhtar Abdul Rahman, Pakistani ISI’s head from 1980 to 1987, regularly met with bin Laden in Peshawar, Pakistan; the CIA essentially micromanaged Afghanistan’s opium production; the ISI trained “militants” (i.e., patsies and useful idiots) to attack the Soviet Union proper; well over 100,000 Islamic militants were trained in Pakistan between 1986 and 1992 in camps constructed and overseen by the CIA and MI6, with the British SAS training future al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters in bomb-making and other black arts, etc., on and on, ad nauseam."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ind...ext=va&
aid=7713
"Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured in at least US $6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin [in Afghanistan]. Other western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more. ... Washington's favoured mujaheddin faction was one of the most extreme, led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. ... Osama bin Laden was a close associate of Hekmatyar and his faction. "
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back.../465/
465p15.htm
[anus] "the very idea that a member of AQI would work for the US is a contradiction in terms."
Don't be a moron as well, asshole. The fundamentalist Chechens that were against Russia at all costs ended up allying with Russian forces to beat down other Chechen resistance groups and take power. Fact is, half the time these fanatics would rather have their little empire under the Big Satan du jour than risk losing everything by allowing the seculars a fair chance.
Argue with this guy, Maury:
"When the SOIs stood up, we were basically hiring terrorists," said Lt. Justin Chabalko, using the military acronym for the Sons of Iraq. Chabalko's 2-4 Infantry Battalion of the 4th Brigade, 10th Mountain Division"
You fuckers are naive, that's for sure.
"Well, this article makes it clear that the US is working with quasi Al Qaedists against Iran: [Hersh nonsense commences ...]" -Bruno
You wake me up to more Hersh, Baer and Nasr? Jesus Bruno. Hersh is one of the few souls who can out spin you. Hersh quoting his best friends is hardly convincing. And their blanket comments labeling all Baloch as . . . uh hm . . . "quasi" . . . Al Qaeda terrorists is just racist and misleading. But you're in to that, right?
These nuts are right to be concerned about potentially supporting fundamentalists. But the 4 million Baloch of Iran are an oppressed minority, not an automatic equivalent of Al Qaeda. They have the right to liberate themselves from an abusive government and we have a duty to help them do it. But we should only help those that are committed to building a secular democracy that guarantees the rights of all Iranians.
Just as we can support Sunnis who fight on the side of democracy in Anbar, we can do so in Balochistan as well. Yes, mistakes might be made sometimes and the wrong people might get some of our dollars. So we Americans should remain vigilant and maintain proper oversight of how that support is used.
"But the military has acknowledged concerns that some members could retain allegiances to al-Qaida, particularly if they were former insurgents themselves" -Rear Adm. Gregory Smith
Can you read? That proves exactly the opposite of what you are claiming. The U.S. does not want to recruit, pay or support anyone loyal to Al Qaeda. It would be treason. Hence the "concerns". But we must do a cost benefit analysis. Does paying the Awakening Movement fighters, the overwhelming majority of whom have fully reject Al Qaeda and its violent anti-democratic principles, in the end actually support Al Qaeda, even if it means some money might leak to terrorist infiltrators?
No, overall it does not support them.
The evidence is clear, because Al Qaeda is effectively defeated under this strategy.
Your logic is akin to saying if a bank is robed, and the money is used for terrorism, the bank supports terrorism. It's just dumb.
"I'll refrain from the insults, K."
Ah gosh Bruno, thanks. I'm so proud of you.
Marion is a reasonable, respectable, though confused, elder married women.
I don't agree she is reasonable. I think she's irrational.
I don't agree she is respectful. She insults people and she deliberately misleads.
She is confused, yes. She is an elder married woman. What does that have to do with anything? Cindy Sheehan was an "elder married woman" until her husband wisely dumped her hideous ass. Would you expect me to be nice to Cindy Sheehan, as well?
I'm still not getting this.
"Would you expect me to be nice to Cindy Sheehan, as well?" -Craig
YES! Of course! She is the mother of a fallen soldier and she deserves our respect even as she does not show the same to her son's sacrifice. She may be wrong and misguided, but she is still an American mother peacefully expressing her opinion.
I am with K on Cindy Sheehan.
While I agree that Marion is irrational, I don't think she is "INTENTIONALLY" disrespectful. I don't think she understands she is insulting other people when she insults them.
Marion is an American mom like Cindy Sheehan. I would treat both respectfully.
"I don't agree she is respectful. She insults people and she deliberately misleads." -Craig
I said she was respectable in that she deserves our respect, even if she is irrational and prone to insult people. I think she genuinely does it without realizing. I could be wrong.
Why does it bother you so much?
Is it because she refuses to blame Hezbollah for murdering our Marines?
That upsets me to.
Maybe it's a cultural thing... You guys seem to think anyone who is a Mom (or a woman!?) is automatically deserving of respect? I think that is sexist and patronizing.
By the way, how do you guys manage to work with women? I'd find it very difficult if I had to treat women differently than I treat men. Considering about half of my co-workers have been female (and half of my bosses, too!) it would be totally unmanageable if I had to be "respectful" to people I thought were incompetent idiots, just because they happened to be female...
Craig,
As I understood it we were all raised in the same culture. Where did you grow up? Calling any women a "slut" is sexist and irrelevant to any discussion we have here. You would never do that in person.
Besides, I think most people deserve respect, not just moms. Even Bruno. When he is a lying fuck I call him a lying fuck. When he is a racist prick I call him a racist prick. When he is willing to carry on a polite conversation I am more than willing to politely point out his universally flawed world view.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6...aXPTSrGiA&
eurl=
I don't think people deserve respect simply because they are a mom. Respect is earned, not an entitlement. Marion is a racist and a very disturbed and confused woman. I think questioning her ‘purity’ is free game when she walks the high and mighty Koran thumper mantle.
I think questioning her ‘purity’ is free game when she walks the high and mighty Koran thumper mantle.
I think so, too, Aton. Especially considering she belives herself to be a devout Shiite, and she supports the IRI so strongly... a country that stones women to death for doing things she almost assuredly did herself.
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/...iraqi_refugees/
Two million Iraqis are living as refugees in Syria and Jordan, and the U.S. seems to be doing nothing to help the vast majority of them despite occupying their country while posing as a savior. A new film, “The Hard Way Home,” produced by the BBC to give faces to that depressing number, is available on YouTube in six parts. Here is the first.
K,
As I understood it we were all raised in the same culture.
Really? I suppose you think we are all the same class too, right? :D
Where did you grow up?
The appropriate question to understand *my* culture would be "Where were you raised, when and by who" right?
My parents were hippies and I grew up in the 1970s. I grew up being told by WOMEN that I should treat women (including my own mother) the same way I treat men. You obviously didn't. So we don't come from the same culture.
Calling any women a "slut" is sexist and irrelevant to any discussion we have here. You would never do that in person.
I wouldn't? How did you learn so much about me?
Besides, I think most people deserve respect, not just moms. Even Bruno.
No, you don't.
When he is a lying fuck I call him a lying fuck. When he is a racist prick I call him a racist prick.
But when Marion does those things, you don't react the same way, do you? She gets a free pass.
When he is willing to carry on a polite conversation I am more than willing to politely point out his universally flawed world view.
See, that's also a place where we differ, culturally. I don't change the way I treat people based on the way they are behaving at the moment. That's seems a bit too... random.... to me. Are you experimenting with behavior modification techniques or something? If I worked with you and you were being an ass towards me one day and a nice guy the next, I'd treat you like an ass on both days.
"I wouldn't? How did you learn so much about me?" -Crag
From your comments.
"But when Marion does those things, you don't react the same way, do you? She gets a free pass." -Craig
Free pass? Huh? So I am not mean enough for you?
"You fuckers are naive, that's for sure."
You're the naive one Bruno. Or at least self-deluded. You may WANT Al Qaida working for the U.S.,because that would fit into your theory of amreeka being the root of all evil. But,everyone knows Al Qaida is a bunch of wingnuts who wouldn't be caught dead working with the Great Satan. They want to chop our heads off Bruno. Not just the evil amreekans,but South Africans as well. They get plenty of money from rich Saudi's and their various extortion,drug,and smuggling rackets. They would laugh in your face at a $300 a month job offer. You have some silly notions Bruno....but this idea that we hired Al Qaida has got to be your goofiest.
"My parents were hippies and I grew up in the 1970s. I grew up being told by WOMEN that I should treat women (including my own mother) the same way I treat men. You obviously didn't. So we don't come from the same culture." -Craig
My mother was a stanch working feminist in a time when few women worked in her field. While she went to Berkeley in the 60's I admit she never considered herself a "hippie".
She taught me that calling a women a "slut" means you are not treating women the same as men because you are telling her that she is dirty for having many sexual partners even though if you told a man the exact same thing it would be a considered a type of complement.
I can't believe you BOTH called Marion an American white woman. You've got to know how hard she's trying to be Arab,and she obviously hates America with a passion. That was below the belt imo...
"If I worked with you and you were being an ass towards me one day and a nice guy the next, I'd treat you like an ass on both days." -Craig
Then it sounds like you might just be an ass all the time. Your friends can't have a bad day?
Look, I don't really want to talk about this anymore. You seem like a nice enough guy to me. Do whatever you think is best. I'm sure you can make the right choice.
I was just offering my opinion.
"I can't believe you BOTH called Marion an American white woman. You've got to know how hard she's trying to be Arab,and she obviously hates America with a passion. That was below the belt imo..." -Maury
Maury. True, but unfortunately, hating America with a passion is very American these days!
K,
My mother was a stanch working feminist in a time when few women worked in her field. While she went to Berkeley in the 60's I admit she never considered herself a "hippie".
Then where did you get this patronizing and condescending attitude towards women, K? Did your mother teach you that was proper? Did your mother expect to be treated better than her male co-workers, when she worked in a field where there were very few women? Did she even want that? Because, you know there's a flip side... men who treat women as if they need to be protected, also don't take women very seriously.
She taught me that calling a women a "slut" means you are not treating women the same as men because you are telling her that she is dirty for having many sexual partners even though if you told a man the exact same thing it would be a considered a type of complement.
It's interesting how often women call other women sluts , then, isn't it? :P
I think I've heard females using the word 100 times more than I've heard men do it. I've even heard women refer to other women as sluts at work. It's only bad when men do it?
That's why feminism is so stupid. Just another preposterous mentality based upon equating reasoning. Men and women are different; their sexual nature is not the same. Marion was raised in American culture and in the peak of the feministic notion of equality. Young American ‘white girls’ are spoiled little brats who sleep around. That’s just a fact. This is why most become lonely old man haters.
"If I worked with you and you were being an ass towards me one day and a nice guy the next, I'd treat you like an ass on both days." -Craig
Then it sounds like you might just be an ass all the time. Your friends can't have a bad day?
I didn't say "friends". I said co-workers. And somebody who was a jerk to me, even on a "bad day" would never be my friend. Nor would I treat them with respect... I don't respect people who take out their frustrations on me, just because they are having a bad day.
Look, I don't really want to talk about this anymore. You seem like a nice enough guy to me. Do whatever you think is best. I'm sure you can make the right choice.
I was just offering my opinion.
OK, that's fine. I never wanted to talk about it in the first place. I don't recall putting myself up for peer review here
I’ve never met a ‘carrier woman’ that isn’t completely insane and desperate to marry in her 30’s.
They are very unattractive. The only normal and happy women you ever meet are the ones who married in their early 20’s.
http://www.truthout.org/article/...y-soldiers-
rape
An alarming number of women soldiers are being sexually abused by their comrades-in-arms, both at war and at home. This fact has received a fair amount of attention lately from researchers and the press - and deservedly so.
Rape in civilian life is already unacceptably common. One in six women is raped or sexually assaulted in her lifetime, according to the National Institute of Justice, a number so high it should be considered an epidemic.
In the military, however, the situation is even worse. Rape is almost twice as frequent as it is among civilians, especially in wartime.
And military men still sing the misogynist rhymes that have been around for decades. For example, Burke's book cites this Naval Academy chant:
Who can take a chainsaw
Cut the bitch in two
Fuck the bottom half
And give the upper half to you...
http://townhall.com/Columnists/
G...ement_mentality
"Unaffected by Today's Entitlement Mentality"
http://sisterhoodofthetravelingp...warnerbros.com/
The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants 2
enjoy your weekend!
For DJ and Marion...
Blindfolded Witnesses
Iranian political prisoners talk about their horrifying experiences in prison
http://www.iranian.com/main/sing...olded-
witnesses
Bruno:
According to your everyone against the invader/occupier political philosophy, US policy to assisted the nationalist Afghan resistance fighters against the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan was the correct course of action. By logical extension, it would have also been appropriate to assist that Nationalist resistance's Arab Islamist allies against the Soviet invasion. Thus, it seems quite disingenuous for you to complain, as you have in this thread above, about blow back from US assitance to the Arab fighters that later formed the core of Al Qaeda.
If you are so concerned about unintended consequences and blowback from arming violent groups, why do you support the Mahdi Army. This group could easily morph into a militant cats paw for Iranian mischief making in the region and beyond. Think of a kind of Shia version of Al Qaeda funded, trained and supported by Iran and deployed for covert operations on their behalf under the idealogical guise of either spreading Shia Islam or sowing sufficient chaos to precipitate the return of the Mahdi. It is a pretty scary proposition, yet you constantly sing the praises of Mookie and his band of militant, misanthropic misfits. Do you see the logical inconsistency?
Mark,
Bruno does not have the courage to take a real moral or philosophical stand. He just hates Americans.
"This group could easily morph into a militant cats paw for Iranian mischief making in the region and beyond."
That's their stated aim Mark. Military resistance to "western secular thought"? And Bruno loves these guys!
"The heavy casualties and defeat in Baghdad and the South suffered by the Mahdi Army have forced Muqtada al Sadr to change his tactics and disband the Mahdi Army in favor of a small, secretive fighting force. This group is tasked with taking part "in resistance in all the Muslim countries and especially Iraq, militarily and ideologically, to the occupiers, colonizers and secular Western thought," a senior Sadr cleric said during this Friday's prayers."
http://www.longwarjournal.org/
ar...ls_irans_op.php
YEEHAW....
THANKS MIKE
Interesting comments about me....
Have to admit though that I am not at all surprised that you are discussing my alleged irrationality and disrespect rather than Craig's obvious irrationality and disrespect...
anand,
Do you remember our short discussion about whether you would accept the Russian military arming or training neighboring countries to the disadvantage of U.S. interests in the region, as compared to the U.S. and Israeli militaries arming or training neighboring countries to Russia, such as Georgia, and inviting them to join Nato, to the disadvantage of Russian interests in their region? And you appeared to defend such?
Well I ran across the following article of interest which touched upon this same subject:
The Georgia Crisis: A Blow to NATO
By Tony Karon
"....Last month, General Norton Schwartz, nominated as Chief of the U.S. Air Force, told his confirmation hearing that the U.S. needed to send a warning to Moscow in the wake of Russian media reports claiming that Moscow was weighing the deployment of nuclear-capable bombers in Cuba, in response to U.S. missile defence installations in Poland and the Czech Republic. The Russians should be told that moving bombers to Cuba "crosses a red line for the United States of America," he said. Let's just say that the Russian military brass have long felt the same way about Ukraine and Georgia being militarily integrated into a rival alliance....."
http://www.time.com/time/world/
a...1832988,00.html
Do you still defend your position?
"I don't agree she is respectful. She insults people and she deliberately misleads."--Craig
This came from a disrespectful Craig's mouth who practices insulting people and deliberately misleading...
****
"I don't think people deserve respect simply because they are a mom."--anton
And I don't necessarily think that people deserve respect just because they call themselves Anton the Sun God either, but I will respect your rights as a fellow human being, as being the same as my rights...
"... Respect is earned, not an entitlement."--anton
Now you should know why you are not respected anton by anyone with any self respect...
"... Marion is a racist and a very disturbed and confused woman."--anton.
It is a racist, disturbed, and confused person who calls himself Anton the Sun God claiming such about me...
"I think questioning her ‘purity’ is free game when she walks the high and mighty Koran thumper mantle."--Aton the Sun God
Of course you do as a racist, disturbed, and confused person anton....
Speaking of deliberately misleading...
Mojo,
Craig has claimed that I called him a Jew a year ago on this blog. How long have I been participating here and could you please provide the evidence that I called Craig a Jew since he appears not to be able to?
"...In Baghdad, Iraqi soldiers Saturday arrested the head of a U.S.-funded Sunni group who was accused of "supporting terrorism" in a series of raids in the western Baghdad district of Jihad.
An Iraqi officer, who declined to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the media, identified the suspect as Tahir Abdullah al-Hamdani, the head of the so-called awakening council in Jihad.
The U.S. military confirmed that a leader of the group was arrested but declined to identify him or give more details.
American commanders have said the Sunni revolt against al-Qaeda in Iraq was a key factor in a sharp decline in violence over the past year, but the movement has been troubled by friendly fire incidents and concerns about infiltration. ..."
Hmmmmm.....
From "Bombers Hit Iraqi Pilgrims Again"
http://www.time.com/time/world/
a...1833403,00.html
"It's strange to see Shia yelling "illegal invasion" as if they'd gladly take Saddam back."--Iraqi Mojo
How exactly do you equate Shias referring to the U.S. invasion of Iraq as illegal, to Shias gladly taking back Saddam Mojo...?
This strange equation of yours does not in any way change the fact that it was an illegal invasion...
As I told you on Angry Arab's comment section blog Mojo, you have a tendency to see everything through the Iraqi Shia experience with Saddam who you believe were rescued by the U.S. invasion and subsequent occupation, so much so, that you cannot bring yourself to honestly recognize the larger picture concerning U.S. abuses and detrimental interferences in Iraq and the larger region..
Oh so it was an illegal invasion, but you don't want Saddam back! Thanks for clarifying, lol. That's good. Maybe we shoulda let Hizballa liberate the Iraqi people.
"you cannot bring yourself to honestly recognize the larger picture concerning U.S. abuses and detrimental interferences in Iraq and the larger region.."
Interesting statement since there's a pic of an Iraqi girl who lost her legs to US bombing in the sidebar of my blog, since many of my posts are about Palestine on my blog, since I've written about the crimes of Blacwater and other careless non-Iraqi jarab.
Maybe Arabs are Angry with me because I recognize the good that America has done in Iraq. Maybe Arabs are Angry because my blog is not entirely devoted to US and zionist crimes. Many blogs are devoted to American and zionist crimes, Marion. My blog is unique.
"How long have I been participating here and could you please provide the evidence that I called Craig a Jew since he appears not to be able to?"
I don't remember you calling anybody a Jew, Marion, but I don't read all the comments.
I believe you started participating in March with this comment:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...8182360/
#282004
for this post: http://iraqimojo.blogspot.com/20...-
surrender.html
She called me a Jew Mojo. I googled Maurice and found out it had Moorish(Muslim folks)roots. Marion,on the other hand is Hebrew(Jewish folks).
It was a hoot.
"Oh so it was an illegal invasion, but you don't want Saddam back! Thanks for clarifying, lol. That's good. Maybe we shoulda let Hizballa liberate the Iraqi people"--Mojo
Lebanese Hizbollah is for liberating the Lebanese people from Israeli occupations and violations, and resisting U.S. designs in Lebanon Mojo, not for liberating the Iraqi people...
Yes Mojo, Saddam just happens to be gone since the illegal invasion, but it still does not make the invasion legal according to international laws...And Saddam is gone now so why don;t they end the illegal invasion which has now become an occupation...
Oh that is right we now have Al Qaeda taking the place of Saddam after the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq and while the U.S has been occupying Iraq....
"She called me a Jew Mojo. I googled Maurice and found out it had Moorish(Muslim folks)roots. Marion,on the other hand is Hebrew(Jewish folks).
It was a hoot."--Maury
Maury, do please provide us all with the exact commentary quote where I allegedly called you a Jew...
Now allegedly I called you, Craig, and anton the sun god Jews, yet not a single one of you have provided any exact quote from me proving your claims...Yet I am the one being accused of deliberately misleading? LOL! Which you likely base on my opposition to your pro war and pro occupation positions..
Come on Maury, provide the evidence to back up your claims other wise your claims don't mean a damn thing. Ask scientist K....
"Maybe Arabs are Angry with me because I recognize the good that America has done in Iraq."--Mojo
Mojo have you ever thought that maybe Arabs are angry with you because you appear to support the illegal U.S. invasion and now occupation of Iraq, which has managed to kill, maim, and dispossess millions of Iraqis and destabilize the region even more. And despite all that you have posted here about U.S. abuses, it still is only a small fraction of the total U.S. abuses in Iraq and the region while you like to spend more time pointing to what you consider to be "the good that America has done in Iraq"...?
And maybe the Arabs are angry with you because of your preference for U.S. occupation, whose preferred ally in the region is Israel, which just happens to be the Arab Palestinian people's dispossessor, occupier, and oppressor over the last century ...
"Oh that is right we now have Al Qaeda taking the place of Saddam after the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq and while the U.S has been occupying Iraq...." -Marion
Oh good she answered her own question. So now you don't have to Mojo!
Mojo, I don't believe that invasion was illegal (certainly not under U.S. law anyway), but I have a question for you:
If Iraqis had liberated their own people from Saddam without any outside help, wouldn't that have been "illegal"? When a tyrant is absolute author of all laws, how can it be "legal" to overthrow him?
What if Marion is right and the invasion was illegal under international law, laws which are co-ratified by some tyrants as well as democracies? Do we, as free people, have any obligation to follow those laws when they counteract our right to live in a free democratic society?
Does George Bush actually not recognize his obvious double standards...?
Hasn't anyone close to him, who he will listen to, bothered to point them all out to him..?
From the New York Times, News Analysis:
".With its actions in recent days Russia has damaged its credibility and its relations with the nations of the free world,” Mr. Bush said in his fourth stern statement on the conflict in five days, and the strongest to date. “Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.”"--George Bush
Am I dreaming that the president of the U.S., who has managed to illegally invade Iraq based on false evidence, and has been threatening others in the region with using force, most especially Iraq's neighbor Iran all the while racking up the sanctions against it, is actually claiming that "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century." ?
"“Only Russia can decide whether it will now put itself back on the path of responsible nations,” he said, “or continue to purse a policy that promises only confrontation and isolation.”"--George Bush
Am I dreaming or is Bush living in a LaLa land of his own making where most of the world is laughing at how he so obviously contradicts himself ...?
"Oh good she answered her own question. So now you don't have to Mojo!"--K
Are you advising Mojo K because you think that he cannot defend his own position...? I noticed that many of you here like to jump in and to defend the other, why is that...?
"Mojo, I don't believe that invasion was illegal (certainly not under U.S. law anyway), but I have a question for you:
If Iraqis had liberated their own people from Saddam without any outside help, wouldn't that have been "illegal"? When a tyrant is absolute author of all laws, how can it be "legal" to overthrow him?
What if Marion is right and the invasion was illegal under international law, laws which are co-ratified by some tyrants as well as democracies? Do we, as free people, have any obligation to follow those laws when they counteract our right to live in a free democratic society?
"--K attempting to twist things around and confuse already confused Mojo...
If we don't have any obligation to follow those laws than how can we claim that the tyrants have the obligation K? LOL!
Aren't we acting as "as free people" tyrants when we claim we have no "obligation to follow those laws when they counteract our right to live in a free democratic society?" and when clearly Saddam or Iraq was not a threat to "our right to live in a free democratic society?"
Iraq war was illegal and breached UN charter, says Annan
The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared explicitly for the first time last night that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal.
Mr Annan said that the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN security council or in accordance with the UN's founding charter. In an interview with the BBC World Service broadcast last night, he was asked outright if the war was illegal. He replied: "Yes, if you wish."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/...ep/16/
iraq.iraq
LONDON - The U.S.-led war in Iraq hasn't made the world any safer, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan said in a British TV interview aired Sunday. "I cannot say the world is safer when you consider the violence around us, when you look around you and see the terrorist attacks around the world and you see what is going on in Iraq," Annan told the ITV network. "We have a lot of work to do as an international community to try and make the world safer," he said. Annan has previously described the U.S.-led war that toppled Saddam Hussein as "illegal."
http://english.aljazeera.net/
new...2381883980.html
Annan: Iraq worse than under Saddam
Annan said he agreed with Iraqis who say that life is worse now than it was under Saddam.
"I think they are right in the sense of the average Iraqi's life," he said.
"If I were an average Iraqi obviously I would make the same comparison - that they had a dictator who was brutal but they had their streets, they could go out, their kids could go to school and come back home without a mother or father worrying, 'Am I going to see my child again?" Annan said.
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
"... Respect is earned, not an entitlement."--anton
Now you should know why you are not respected anton by anyone with any self respect...
:D
She really is retarded.
PS - Marion, that makes 3 of us who claim you called us a Jew. *shrug*
Marion, what do you think of the 65% of Iraqi Shia and 85% of Iraqi Kurds who thought just earlier this year the invasion was worth it?
Marion, how many Iraqis does the resistance have to kill in order to convince 100% of Iraqis the invasion was worth it, in your estimation?
"Are you advising Mojo K because you think that he cannot defend his own position...? I noticed that many of you here like to jump in and to defend the other, why is that...?" -Marion
Mojo is my friend. We make no secret that we agree on many, many issues. I comment on this blog because I enjoy Mojo's personal, thoughtful and informed point of view.
"attempting to twist things around and confuse already confused Mojo..." -Marion
Mojo's has family that was murdered by Saddam. He lived through his tyrannical rule. Nothing I could say would "confuse" that out of his memory.
"And maybe the Arabs are angry with you because of your preference for U.S. occupation,"
Yes I prefer US occupation to Saddami dictatorship and Islamic theocracy. NONE of my family have been killed by US troops. MANY have been killed by 3arab jarab. This is truth. IF the Arabs are Angry with me for this reason, the Arabs can go to fucking hell. They are quite used to killing my relatives, the jarab among the 3arab, and I'm sure at least a few of them would like to see me and my family killed, whether I express my views or not.
"Marion, how many Iraqis does the resistance have to kill in order to convince 100% of Iraqis the invasion was worth it, in your estimation?"
OOPS! I meant to ask Marion "how many Iraqis does the resistance have to kill in order to convince 100% of Iraqis the invasion was NOT worth it"
"If we don't have any obligation to follow those laws than how can we claim that the tyrants have the obligation K? LOL! " -Marion
Tyrants are not obligated to obey law. They are obligated to not exist.
Trying to get tyrants, dictators and theocrats to be contained by "international law" has been one of the worst mistakes of the foreign policy of the world's free nations.
Marion, have you ever read the Declaration of Independence by Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin?
You should read it. It answers your question perfectly.
Thanks K! I'm on the train and have no battery remaining, and my charger is messed up. Thanks and hope you're having a great summer.
Marion,
Please bring back Hitler and Insane
Man....
because it would be the biggest
punches U would have ever seen
from a 5"1,110 pound person...
U make me LAUGH and i WOULD still
WIN....
Does that make ya feel good?
Ya have to fight against Mojo....
TROLL
"PS - Marion, that makes 3 of us who claim you called us a Jew. *shrug*"--
Craig
Yes, three of you have now accused me, and three of you have yet to provided any proofs...
Doesn't look good for your reputations, as far as them being based on credibility, when not a single one of you can provide evidence from my own posts to prove your claims that I called you all Jews, does it Craig? *shrug*
I suppose you think that all the evidence you need is that you are all supporting each other in not having to provide any evidence for your exact same accusations against me...Why do I think I am being set up?
You have decided to all team up with each other and make the exact same claim so that in your minds you can justify your false claims as being the evidence necessary to convict me...And yet I am the one misleading others here? LOL!
Oh, gee, Marion... I guess we just like to accuse people of making racist comments about us, right? lol. I suppose we could search Mojo's blog using the keywords "Marion" and "jew" and then go through 500 hits until we find the offending statement?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20080...q_striking_back
The city's mayor, Najim Abdullah, fears that the removal of American troops from his city and the deployment of Iraqi army soldiers to nearby Mosul have left his overwhelmingly Turkoman community vulnerable.
"The goal was to start sectarian violence with the car bombs," he said. "There used to be a whole brigade here and now it's less. Soon, these policies will backfire in Tal Afar and allow terrorists to come in."
I guess the mayor of Tal Afar disagrees with your claim that terrorism will vanish when the US troops are gone, Marion. But I'm sure you are much smarter than him, right?
"Oh, gee, Marion... I guess we just like to accuse people of making racist comments about us, right? lol."--Craig
Yes you do Craig...And even though I did not call you a Jew, what is so racist about being called a Jew? Since it was actually you who called me a Jew based on my name having Hebrew roots, yet I never considered it as racist, even though I said it isn't true that I am a Jew...
"I suppose we could search Mojo's blog using the keywords "Marion" and "jew" and then go through 500 hits until we find the offending statement?"--Craig
Well considering that I allegedly now called three people here Jews Craig, it shouldn't be that difficult to search the keywords "Jew", "Anton the Sun God", "Craig", and "Maury" to prove your claims against me...
Now if you were to use the keywords "Jew" and "Marion", you would find many of your own accusations because you are the ones who brought the word Jew along with my name up so much that you all have managed to complicate it for yourselves...LOL!
"I guess the mayor of Tal Afar disagrees with your claim that terrorism will vanish when the US troops are gone, Marion. But I'm sure you are much smarter than him, right?"--Craig
Do you know that it is really not nice or helpful to be in the habit of putting words into other people's mouths Craig? In fact it can be misleading.....
First of all, I never claimed that terrorism would vanish when U.S. troops are gone Craig, yet resistance to the U.S. occupation would obviously vanish...
I believe that if U.S troops leave, Al Qaeda would no longer have any legitimacy in Iraq amongst those Iraqis who have united themselves with them because of the U.S. occupation Craig ...And that only when the U.S. occupation ends will the Iraqi people have to find a way to unite and eventually rid themselves of Al Qaeda remnants who came to Iraq because of the U.S. invasion and occupation.....
The U.S. occupation of Iraq gives Al Qaeda the ammunition it needs to go to and stay in Iraq, just like Al Qaeda's presence in Iraq gives the U.S. the ammunition it needs to convince the Iraqi people it's continued occupation of Iraq is necessary....
This is just logical reasoning Craig...
Marion, what do you think of the 65% of Iraqi Shia and 85% of Iraqi Kurds who thought just earlier this year the invasion was worth it?"--Iraqi Mojo
I do not blame the Iraqi people for their confusion Mojo...I blame the U.S. occupation and its effects....
"Marion, how many Iraqis does the resistance have to kill in order to convince 100% of Iraqis the invasion was worth it, in your estimation?"--
Iraqi Mojo
So according to this logic does this mean that you believe now that the U.S. invaded Iraq because of the resistance Mojo and not Saddam...?
And using the same logic how many Iraqis does the U.S. occupation forces have to kill in order to convince 100% of Iraqis the invasion was not worth it?
"Tyrants are not obligated to obey law."--K
BAsed on that logic George Bush must be a tyrant than...
"Marion,
Please bring back Hitler and Insane
Man...."--andrea
Now why would I want to do that andrea, so that I can see your threat of 5"1,110 pound person punches allegedly come true...? LOL!
"how many Iraqis does the U.S. occupation forces have to kill in order to convince 100% of Iraqis the invasion was not worth it?"
Marion asked a good question, finally. I was thinking about this myself and wondered how much 'collateral damage' the average Iraqi would 'accept' in order to say the invasion was worth it. US troops have committed some horrific crimes in Iraq, but clearly, despite the 'collateral damage' (some of it direct murder) by the US, in February of this year 65% of Iraqi Shia and 85% of Kurds said they believed the invasion was worth it. Have you really asked yourself why? You think they are CONFUSED??
Ask yourself why most Kurds and Shia think the invasion was worth it, Marion. It is a remarkable statistic. It shows that despite the extreme violence, most Iraqis still thought the invasion was worth it, because most of their lives were quite miserable before 2003. Marion, did you grow up in the US? Do you know what it's like to live under a murderous dictatorship? Saddam led Iraq to ruin, and most Iraqis understood this. They welcomed change, but they didn't want to be blown up and killed (by anybody), and that's probably why the numbers aren't even higher. The resistance (and whoever kills innocent Iraqis) must kill more people in order for those numbers to fall.
The US, being the invader and occupier in the name of freedom for Iraqis (Operation Iraqi Freedom) tried to set up a democracy as best they could. Many mistakes have been made, but the overthrow of a murderous dictator was accomplished. The US goal was clearly to set up a more legitimate govt in Baghdad, one to their liking, and logically their aim should be to minimize civilian deaths, in order to have the support of the people.
AQ and other groups fighting the US benefit by maximizing civilian casualties, which causes the public to lose confidence in the US-backed govt. Iraqis who lost loved ones in violence since 2003 probably would not say the invasion was worth it.
Marion,
U forgot a word
Give up?
If ya gonna state me,don't forget
a word...
Let me also state here that I believe when Iraqis answered this question about whether the invasion was worth it, I don't think Iraqis who said it's worth it were saying that it was acceptable for the US to kill innocent Iraqis.
I don't expect non-Iraqis to understand how much Iraqi Shia hated Saddam and wanted him overthrown.
For the record, I believe the US could have done better in its relationship with Iraq, especially starting in 1991 - all this would have been avoidable if the murderous dictator was overthrown then, and oh how close they were to Baghdad. Instead cruel sanctions were imposed on Iraq and then another war in 2003, in which the US could have done more to minimize 'collateral' damage.
Good night.
Its OK,Mojo.....
U don't have to explain....
Some get it and and for those,
who don't....
We can talk til all hours,but
they are so negative...
U know what is in your heart
is right1!!!!!
"you are the ones who brought the word Jew along with my name up so much that you all have managed to complicate it for yourselves...LOL!"
It's all part of the Zionist capitalist agenda.
It's sad that such chaos and blood followed the overthrow of Saddam. But I think you have it exactly right. We intended nothing but good for Iraqis.
Was it worth it, given all the mayhem and misery that ensued?
I think only Iraqis will have the right to answer that question and only after some years have passed.
But the answer will depend on a just appreciation of the past and of the future of Iraq.
For a just appreciation of the past, one needs to fully understand the horror of Saddam Hussein's rule. Few people appreciate that or are interested in doing so. He is one of those extraordinary individuals like Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung and his son whose brutality almost passes conception. Everyone says that they aren't defending Saddam the tyrant, but as Christopher Hitchens points out, that's usually just a throat clearing exercise.
Will Iraq become a stable and hopeful place? I certainly hope so. I think it may be finally becoming so. And that may in the minds of many make the suffering that followed Saddam's fall worth it.
I once asked Richard Fernandez of the Belmont Club what his parents and grandparents who had lived through the massive American bombarment of Manila during World War Two thought of what happened to them.
Was it worth it to expel the Japanese and regain Filipino freedom?
He answered that everyone from that generation that he knew believed that it was WELL worth it, despite the appalling casualites suffered.
If the Iraqis succeed in building their nation and come to see the struggle as their struggle for nationhood and not just an American "invasion" perhaps they will feel the same way.
God bless them. Every night my family asks God to bless the people of Iraq.
Jeff,
Take care!
[k] "Just as we can support Sunnis who fight on the side of democracy in Anbar"
Ah yes, the famous Sheikhs and Ex-Terrorists For Democracy Coalition. I forgot about them.
[k] "The U.S. does not want to recruit, pay or support anyone loyal to Al Qaeda."
[maury] "this idea that we hired Al Qaida has got to be your goofiest."
Nonsense. Here's another:
"the "Legitimate Resistance Force." It includes ex-insurgents, police dropouts with checkered backgrounds, and former Al Qaeda-linked fighters – all united by a desire to rid Diyala Province of the network's influence, say US officers. "A lot of them are former Al Qaeda operatives ... but when they saw the stealing, murder, and terrorism, they realized it was not the way forward for Iraq," says Maj. John Woodward of San Antonio. "
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/07...01s01-
wome.html
"Ex" Al Qaeda? What, did they haul out the King James Bible and get the AQI groupies to swear to Jesus that they would be NICE Ex-AQI groupies from now on? No more head-chopping for you! Naughty, naughty.
[k] "I am more than willing to politely point out his universally flawed world view."
... which is that to advance its broader foreign policy goals, the US can and does make alliances with the worst of the worst, even when supposedly fighting 'against' them?
[mark] "US policy to assisted the nationalist Afghan resistance fighters against the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan was the correct course of action."
More or less, yes.*
[mark] "it seems quite disingenuous for you to complain, as you have in this thread above, about blow back from US assitance to the Arab fighters that later formed the core of Al Qaeda."
Hmmm. I'm not quite so much complaining as pointing out that 1: yes, America did help in creating Al Qaeda and 2: they were not very nice people and 3: working with these types inevitably seems to lead to one's fingers being burnt.
[mark] "why do you support the Mahdi Army."
Fair enough question. I have summed up my position somewhere else, which conveniently refuses to be found right now. So, in very short order:
1: the Sadrists are not very nice but
2: they ARE a major Iraqi mass movement
3: with deep roots in Iraq representing a genuine national movement reaching back decades
4: they want a united Iraq with no foreign invaders running around
5: they don't want to break Iraq up and
6: they are the group ideologically closest to the 'sunni' resistance movements amongst the Shia
[mark] "This group could easily morph into a militant cats paw for Iranian mischief"
As opposed to the SCIRI and DAWA and BADR people who were FOUNDED in IRAN for the express purpose of exporting the Islamic Revolution TO Iraq? Are you sure your concern is directed at the right people, here? Maybe you should look at the people the US is supplying with weapons right now, for Iranian proxies.
[mark] "Do you see the logical inconsistency?"
Not really. I think that maybe you're not interpreting my posts the way I meant them to be read. I'm aware the Sadrists are not the nicest. But then, the current US allies in Badr are worse.
* Although learning about the actual deeds of the US-assisted fighters and the actions of people like Zbignew Brzenzski in precipitating the invasion by the USSR have eroded my once staunch support for the Afghans and the US. Perhaps my view now would be more along the lines of: leave them alone to kill each other and God will sort them out.
[k] "Mojo, I don't believe that invasion was illegal (certainly not under U.S. law anyway)"
The UN Charter is part of US Law, K, so yes, it was illegal.
[marion] "is Bush living in a LaLa land of his own making where most of the world is laughing at how he so obviously contradicts himself ...?"
As a matter of fact, the Sunday Times here in South Africa had the political cartoon devoted to Bush and his hypocrisy, while the articles on the Georgian crisis mention US double standards as well.
“Bush and his hypocrisy”
Bruno
Yes, within the realm of the mental left and the lampoons of the mentally weak, perception of Bush hypocrisy is inevitable. Those people who equate (the lowest form of reason), look at Russia and America as moral equals. That we are simply two different peoples living in a diverse world. The fact is that we are not moral equals; America is morally superior by all means of logic and truth. America, democracy and human liberty are authentically morally superior to the authoritarians you and your mentally sick ilk pay respect to with such devotion. You are the enemies of the free world, the sick of humanity.
"and former Al Qaeda-linked fighters "
EVERY Sunni resistance group was "linked" to Al Qaida Bruno. YOUR hewoes,not mine. That the sunni resistance teamed up with al Qaida is no secret. It was a marriage of conveniance. Thankfully,Iraqis came to their senses. Have you?
""Ex" Al Qaeda?"
Uhhhh.....no. Hired by Al Qaida,maybe. Allied with Al Qaida,probably. Members of Al Qaida....not a chance. Al Qaida has an ideology Bruno. It's a cult. You don't drop out of a cult for a few hundred measly dollars a month. The bozos blowing up Awakening members.....THAT's Al Qaida.
"As a matter of fact, the Sunday Times here in South Africa had the political cartoon devoted to Bush and his hypocrisy, while the articles on the Georgian crisis mention US double standards as well."
At least you guys know the U.S. is all that matters. Who cares if Iran is building ICBM's? Or if Russia rebuilds the Soviet Union? Or even if we all go up in smoke in an hour? The U.S. could do worse....LOL.
An interesting video...
Islam & America: Through the Eyes of Imran Khan
http://blip.tv/file/515474
"...Yes, within the realm of the mental left and the lampoons of the mentally weak, perception of Bush hypocrisy is inevitable. Those people who equate (the lowest form of reason), look at Russia and America as moral equals. That we are simply two different peoples living in a diverse world. The fact is that we are not moral equals; America is morally superior by all means of logic and truth. America, democracy and human liberty are authentically morally superior to the authoritarians you and your mentally sick ilk pay respect to with such devotion. You are the enemies of the free world, the sick of humanity."--Anton.....
Your obvious arrogance which lacks any kind of humility is not morally superior anton. Your way of looking down on others and saying lies about them is not morally superior. And it is only God Our Creator Who is the judge of the morally superior amongst His creations, not you...
Blowback from Bear Baiting
http://
www.realclearpolitics.com...ar_baiting.html
"We Are All Georgians"? Not So Fast
Sunday 17 August 2008
»
by: Michael Dobbs, The Washington Post
http://www.truthout.org/article/...t-so-fast?
print
Angry Arab:
"I will start with the most recent polling. In March of this year ORB conducted a poll for the British Channel 4, asking Iraqis what they would like to see happen with the Multinational Forces. Seventy percent said they want the Multi National Forces to leave, with 78 percent of this group wanting them to leave within six months or less and 84 percent within a year. Thus about six in ten of the whole sample said they want the troops out within a year or less. In a poll conducted in February of this year for a consortium of news outlets led by ABC News, 73 percent said they oppose the presence of coalition forces in Iraq. Sixty-one percent said that the presence of US forces in Iraq is making the security situation in Iraq worse. Iraqis have been asking for a timetable for withdrawal for some time now. At the beginning of 2006 WorldPublicOpinion.org found that 7 in 10 wanted US-led forces out according to timetable of two years or less. About a year later 7 in 10 favored a timetable of one year or less. In late 2006 the US State Department conducted polls in numerous major Iraqi cities and consistently found about two-thirds calling for the US to leave."
Posted by As'ad at 10:13 AM
Iraqi Public Opinion on the Presence of US Troops
July 30, 2008
Testimony of Dr. Steven Kull
Director, Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA),
University of Maryland
Director, WorldPublicOpinion.org
July 23, 2008 - 2:00 PM
Before House Committee on Foreign Affairs, Subcommittee on International Organizations, Human Rights, and Oversight
http://www.worldpublicopinion.or...id=&pnt=517&
lb=
Iraq moves against some US-backed Sunni fighters
http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=1692
The Shiite-led government is cracking down on U.S.-backed Sunni Arab fighters in one of Iraq’s most turbulent regions, arresting some leaders, disarming dozens of men and banning them from manning checkpoints except alongside official security forces.
But Iraq’s government is suspicious of such groups, fearing their decision to break with the insurgency was a short-term tactic to gain U.S. money and support. The government fears they will eventually turn their guns against Iraq’s majority Shiites.
A top Iraqi security official with access to classified information said authorities were especially suspicious of the Diyala groups because many of their estimated 14,000 fighters had been members of al-Qaida in Iraq.
“We fought the Americans for four years and we fought al-Qaida, too,” said al-Safi, a former Iraqi army commando during Saddam Hussein’s regime who fought in the 1980-88 Iraq-Iran war. “We are an experienced armed group. We are fully capable of bringing the house down.”
But the Iraqi government has stonewalled U.S. efforts to get most of the Sunni fighters into the Shiite-dominated security forces.
It has repeatedly changed requirements for enrollment in the police and army, canceling and changing application forms without warning or insisting that training camps were full.
The U.S. military says that of the 99,859 Awakening Council members it recognizes, only 23,357 have been accepted into the security forces or given civilian jobs.
U.S. officers worry that disbanding the Sunni groups without providing alternate incomes could push the fighters back into the insurgency.
But a lawmaker from the Iraqi Islamic Party, the country’s largest Sunni party, warned that the government must take into consideration the groups’ contribution to improved security.
“The government must listen to what the Awakening Councils have to say,” Sunni lawmaker Hashem al-Taai said. “They deserve that because of all the sacrifices they have made.”
“Your obvious arrogance which lacks any kind of humility is not morally superior anton. Your way of looking down on others and saying lies about them is not morally superior. And it is only God Our Creator who is the judge of the morally superior amongst His creations, not you...”
Marion
I never claimed to be morally superior to a Russian Marion. This is my very point. One person living as a free citizen of America or one person dictating as a head of an authoritarian regime cannot claim to be morally superior. Only a free democracy like America can proclaim this truth as a whole. Man was meant to live free; it is our inalienable right.
Here's what a grunt has to say about the Awakening Bruno....
http://armyofdude.blogspot.com/2...h-
benefits.html
"Man was meant to live free; it is our inalienable right."
She's not going to get it Aton. She thinks man was meant to submit to Islam....or the most anti-American Imam....whichever is in vogue at the moment.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journa...2008/
watch.html
Jeff, thank you very much!
"I can't believe you BOTH called Marion an American white woman. You've got to know how hard she's trying to be Arab,and she obviously hates America with a passion. That was below the belt imo...
Maury | 08.15.08 - 3:55 pm | #"
:LOL:
"She's not going to get it Aton. She thinks man was meant to submit to Islam....or the most anti-American Imam....whichever is in vogue at the moment."--Maury
I believe that while man was created to submit to his Creator, Our Creator does not force us to submit to Him...
In other words, we were created with a free will..
And our free will is where our freedoms originate and come from....
And just so you don't claim your false allegation that I submit to "the most anti-American Imam" as being a fact, I will clarify that I do not believe in submitting to Imams Maury and I am not anti-American, but I am extremely critical of U.S. foreign policy...
"The government fears they will eventually turn their guns against Iraq’s majority Shiites." -Xoid's quote
Good Point DJ! It seems like this is a good argument for keeping MNF troops in Iraq for a while longer despite the current stability and success. The Awaking movement has had fantastic short terms gains but must be fully integrated with a federal army.
We must all ensure the peace lasts and a stable democracy blooms.
And our free will is where our freedoms originate and come from....
Marion
Marion, your killing me.
"I believe that while man was created to submit to his Creator, Our Creator does not force us to submit to Him..." -Marion
Yeah, that's Khamenei's job!
I am not anti-American, but I am extremely critical of U.S. foreign policy...
To the point that you'd like your own countrymen (Americans) to be killed in Iraq. Nothing anti-American about that, Marion. You are absolutely right.
:D
"I believe that while man was created to submit to his Creator"
"I will clarify that I do not believe in submitting to Imams Maury"
How do you know what the Creator wants then Marion? Does he speak to you directly? Did he give you more wisdom to interpret the Quran than he gave the Imams? I've never heard a pious Muslim diss clerics. Are you sure you're not into this religion for the "Allah it sure feels good to hate Amreeka and be religious about it" effect?
"And our free will is where our freedoms originate and come from.... "
That one killed me too Aton!
[aton] "Those people who equate (the lowest form of reason), look at Russia and America as moral equals."
Hmm. I disagree. I think that Russia is morally superior to America.
[aton] "America is morally superior by all means of logic and truth. "
Wrong. That's precisely why it is the inferior of the two. The truth is, the Russians are hard bastards that take what they want and don't make too many stories about it. There's a core of truth to what they do, even if we don't like it. An opponent that isn't scared to say what it is.
America, on the other hand, takes what it wants too, but insists that it does it for noble causes, and insists that its victims must love it. There's something paedophilic about the way America operates. Almost like some sadistic animal raping his children "for their own good". THAT is why America, by all means of truth and logic, is the worse of the two.
[aton] "America, democracy and human liberty are authentically morally superior to the authoritarians"
I'm listening.
[aton] "you and your mentally sick ilk pay respect to with such devotion."
... and there it all breaks down. American support for All-American heroes like the Shah, Saddam Hussein, Noriega, Pinochet, Suharto, Mubarak (and so forth ad nauseum) reveal your 'truth' to be a hollow construct filled with liquid shit. Unfortunately there are many people hard at work, poking holes in your construct, and letting the shit leak out. Soon, people will realise that the shit IS the truth, and will begin doing something about it.
The majority of Americans are only apathetic. If they wake up, they will do some serious spring-cleaning. Maggots like yourself will be sloshed out together with the rest of the crap.
[maury] ""Ex" Al Qaeda?" Uhhhh.....no.
Uuuh, yes. Argue with the US military, Maury, not me.
Just read the blog Maury linked to. That largely coincides with my understanding of the situation. Good one, Maury, for a change.
Here's a good comment by the blog author:
"I don't classify insurgents as 'terrorists,' but at least get it the other part right - they're former, and future, insurgents.
We were forced to work with them, so of course there were jokes abound. We even joked about killing each other too. One of them famously befriended a guy in my platoon and told him one day, "when we attack you someday, raise your hand so I won't kill you."
Another comment by Alex, the blogger Maury linked to:
"I was the guy who did the biometric data entry for my platoon, and here's how it went: they wrote their name on a piece of paper along with their hometown, height etc. The terp gives us the info and we enter it into a system. Then we give them a reflective belt, a brown t-shirt and presto! A brand new, minted patriot."
Frankly, those "screening procedures" are even more lax than I imagined. Gosh, well, good thing those AQ guys were screened out, huh?
Another great comment from the blog Maury linked to:
"You make a really good point that isn't being talked about a lot. We are essentially paying for quiet, and paying not to be killed. We're paying tribute to our enemies, we're just not calling it that. I think it's because they are trying to pretend that things are "Working". But really, what does working mean?"
"I don't classify insurgents as 'terrorists,' but at least get it the other part right - they're former, and future, insurgents.
Bruno, do you not even realize that quote proves your "ex-Al Qaida" assertion to be complete BS?
Maury was right - there's no such thing as "former Al Qaida members" just like there is no such thing as "former Mafia members". And you just proved him right with your ridiculous attempt to prove him wrong.
Have you ever considered posting your comments BEFORE you start hitting the bottle?
Sorry about the rash of posts, people. As soon as Maury goes back to posting nonsense, I'll go back to posting one-liners on his performance.
[craig] "Bruno, do you not even realize that quote proves your "ex-Al Qaida" assertion to be complete BS? "
Sorry, Craig, you need to rethink what you're saying. These are two different situations, with two different people talking about different recruits.
Your logic is not correct.
Simply put:
1: There are tornadoes in Texas
2: Texas is part of America
3: New York is part of America
4: therefore there are tornadoes in New York
That's the logic you are using. See where it breaks down?
It's funny how Bruno keeps slamming the US for hiring Iraqis who were formerly allied with Al Qaeda and at the same time slams the Iraqi govt for not reconciling with the Iraqi Sunni Arab insurgents, most of whom were allied with Al Qaeda at some point in the last 4 years.
""I believe that while man was created to submit to his Creator, Our Creator does not force us to submit to Him..." -Marion
Yeah, that's Khamenei's job!"--K
It also seems K, in a much larger scale, to be the Neocon Bush administration's job to force the rest of the world to submit to U.S. style "freedom and Democracy" that just happens to serve U.S. interests, or at the least be "moderate" dictatorships that serve U.S. interests...
I am not anti-American, but I am extremely critical of U.S. foreign policy..."--Marion
"To the point that you'd like your own countrymen (Americans) to be killed in Iraq. Nothing anti-American about that, Marion. You are absolutely right."--
Craig
Actually I don;t want to see any of my fellow American soldiers(or even the thousands of mercenaries) killed in Iraq Craig....
It is those like you Craig who are putting your countrymen (Americans)in harms way to be killed in Iraq, when you so vigorously support what are Neocon/Zionist illegal preemptive wars and occupations.
I want to see the occupation of Iraq come to an end so that our troops can come home to their families in one piece and legally defend our borders from here. I also don't want to see innocent Iraqis and other innocents caught in the middle of Neocon orchestrated, with the use of falsified evidence, illegal under international laws, preemptive wars and invasions....
"How do you know what the Creator wants then Marion? Does he speak to you directly? Did he give you more wisdom to interpret the Quran than he gave the Imams? I've never heard a pious Muslim diss clerics. Are you sure you're not into this religion for the "Allah it sure feels good to hate Amreeka and be religious about it" effect?"--Maury
No, God Our Creator does not directly speak to me Maury, neither does he speak directly to the Imams...
You claimed Maury that I submit to "the most anti-American Imam" and I responded back telling you that I do not submit to Imams and that I am not anti-American. Muslims are supposed to submit only to Allah(God Our Creator).
So what exactly does your first off the wall false allegation that I submit to the most anti-American Imam have to do with your other off the wall false allegations?:
...Does he speak to you directly? Did he give you more wisdom to interpret the Quran than he gave the Imams? I've never heard a pious Muslim diss clerics. Are you sure you're not into this religion for the "Allah it sure feels good to hate Amreeka and be religious about it" effect?"==Maury
Please do Maury, make a LOGICAL CONNECTION using LOGICAL EVIDENCES between your previous false allegation that I submit to the most anti-American Imam, my response, and your follow up false allegations, as opposed to answering with even more off the wall false allegations...
Maybe Bruno can give those like Maury here, a few pointers on how to use logic rather than resorting to using hyperbolic accusations to argue your points...
Marion, these people are largely a lost cause. Everytime I think there's a ray of light, they close the window with some or other dumb statement.
"Just read the blog Maury linked to. That largely coincides with my understanding of the situation."
Mine too Bruno. I never said the insurgents were boy scouts. I made the point here many times that they were allied with and facillitating Al Qaida's movements in Iraq. It didn't seem to bother you at the time. What bothers you is that they flipped sides.
[Craig] Bruno, do you not even realize that quote proves your "ex-Al Qaida" assertion to be complete BS?
Which is the reason I pointed Bruno to the blog in the first place. The grunt doesn't have anything nice to say about the Awakening. He feels we should have retained the "moral high ground" and eliminated them one by one. But,he makes the point several times that they were insurgents,NOT terrorists. They engaged marines and IA,not civilians. They've declared war on al Qaida,and have killed their own tribe members that were part of Al Qaida. I feel for the grunt. It's got to be hard to work with people that were shooting at you a few months before. Still,Petraeus did the right thing. Co-opting insurgencies is the only effective way to end them. And I think the grunt is wrong about having to fight these guys another day. There's still time for Baghdad to address the grievances of the Sunni population. Elections,jobs,and a fair piece of the oil pie will go a long way.
"Please do Maury, make a LOGICAL CONNECTION using LOGICAL EVIDENCES between your previous false allegation that I submit to the most anti-American Imam, my response, and your follow up false allegations, as opposed to answering with even more off the wall false allegations..."
I'm just trying to reconcile the inconsistencies Marion. You say we were meant to submit to Allah,and then claim to NOT submit to Imams. How can we submit to one without the other? You know what Mohammed had to say about womens lack of intelligence Marion. There's a reason it takes two female witnesses to equal the testimony of one man. Allah didn't make you smart enough to divine his will Marion. That's why you need an Imam. Don't make me whip you over the head with the Quran woman. I've read the darn thing.
Iraqi Mojo - 5:07 am
When they were fighting us Bruno called them patriots. Now that they've flipped,he tries to claim they were terrorists all along. That's what's called having your cake,eating it too,and then regurgitating it for all to enjoy.
"I'm just trying to reconcile the inconsistencies Marion. You say we were meant to submit to Allah,and then claim to NOT submit to Imams. How can we submit to one without the other? "--Maury
Using logic, is Allah and the Imams one and the same Maury? How can Allah(God Our Creator) and the Imams be one and the same when Allah created these men who became Imams through learning? And Allah is the All-Knowing?
Are you confusing Islam with the Christianity which professes that God Our Creator and Jesus are one and the same in three, the Trinity? Which quite frankly isn't logical to me and happened to be something I could not accept as a former Christian.
There is a major difference between submitting to an Infallible Allah, Our Creator, and learning from and taking the advice of fallible Imams who were created by Allah Our Creator Maury....
"....You know what Mohammed had to say about womens lack of intelligence Marion. There's a reason it takes two female witnesses to equal the testimony of one man. Allah didn't make you smart enough to divine his will Marion. That's why you need an Imam. Don't make me whip you over the head with the Quran woman. I've read the darn thing."--Maury
Just because you have read the Holy Qur'an Maury doesn't mean you understood it correctly, especially considering that you are anti-Islam and anti-Prophet Muhammed(pbuh), I would conclude, using logic, that your understanding of the Holy Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) would be biased.......
Allah, God Our Creator, never said in the Holy Qur'an that women lack intelligence and neither did the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh)...
Women, according to Shia Islam, can reach a level of learning where they can be their own Imams Maury...
And the two female believing witnesses equaling the testimony of one believing man is based on the emotional differences between men and women and how they perceive things, not on intelligence...
Men are supposed to be more logical based on them having more control of their emotions than women, yet it seems that this is not the case here on Mojo's blog...LOL!
Men sometimes react emotionally? Wow.
"Just because you have read the Holy Qur'an Maury doesn't mean you understood it correctly, especially considering that you are anti-Islam and anti-Prophet Muhammed(pbuh), I would conclude, using logic, that your understanding of the Holy Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) would be biased......."
I'm not anti-Islam OR anti-Muhammed Marion. I'm just anti-fanatic. The Quran is a reflection of Muhammed and the times he lived in. Time didn't stop after the Quran was written. The human race is well past the age of head chopping,slavery,loss of body parts for various offense,and the stoning of loose women,not to mention the silly notion that women are worthy of the same rights as men. Anyone trying to bring back the "age of Muhammed" is an enemy of the human race and the progress it's made in the last 1000 or so years. Your support of the despots running Iran puts you in the enemy camp Marion. You can quibble over the word "submit" all you like. But,you rely heavily on the teachings of Khomeini. You've "submitted" to his interpretation of the Quran. That much is obvious to everyone.
Two conspiracy theorists die and go to heaven. At havens gates God says “look guys, man did land on the moon, JFK was shot by a single person, and 9-11 was perpetrated by 19 Arab terrorists.” One of the conspiracy theorists looks at the other and says, “This really does go to the top.” Bada bing.
"Men sometimes react emotionally? Wow."--Iraqi Mojo
It is not amazing that men sometimes react emotionally Mojo...
It is amazing that here on your blog most of the men have a hard time controlling their emotions...
*****
Although I think comparing the emotions of men and women to a certain smell was a strange choice considering that women, as Mothers and housewives, have had to put up with bad smells far more than men, the following article is revealing:
Inside the brains of men and women controlling their emotions
"Women do seem to cry more readily than men, but is that because they are less able to control their emotions? According to Ute Habel and colleagues, research does suggest women are more 'emotional'. They cite the fact that women are more vulnerable to emotional disorders, and a study showing men are better able than women to control their negative emotions.
So if this gender difference is true, what is happening in men's brains when they exert control over their emotions, and how does it differ from female brain activity in similar circumstances?..."
http://bps-research-digest.blogs...-and-
women.html
Sometimes I have a hard time controlling my emotions.
I would conclude, using logic
Marion has "logic" now? Wow! A logical retard. That must be a first! Good thing they don't have IQ tests for people wanting to convert to Islam, isn't it?
"I'm not anti-Islam OR anti-Muhammed Marion."--Maury
That is definitely debatable considering your past remarks Maury...
"I'm just anti-fanatic."--Maury
I hope that you understand that U.S. sanctions and Neocon preemptive wars and occupations that have lead to the killing, maiming, and dispossession of millions of Iraqi civilians which we refer to as collateral damage, and basing it on a blind American patriot belief that we still hold the higher moral ground is fanatical Maury...
"The Quran is a reflection of Muhammed and the times he lived in. Time didn't stop after the Quran was written. The human race is well past the age of head chopping,slavery,loss of body parts for various offense,and the stoning of loose women,not to mention the silly notion that women are worthy of the same rights as men. Anyone trying to bring back the "age of Muhammed" is an enemy of the human race and the progress it's made in the last 1000 or so years. Your support of the despots running Iran puts you in the enemy camp Marion. You can quibble over the word "submit" all you like. But,you rely heavily on the teachings of Khomeini. You've "submitted" to his interpretation of the Quran. That much is obvious to everyone."--Maury
Yet you claim in the same breath that you are not anti-Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) or anti-Islam Maury? LOL!
The Holy Quran is Allah's guidance revealed in the times of the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) that is adaptable for all times if correctly interpreted....
I have no comment on your usual hyperbolic accusations against me because you cannot stick to debating honestly Maury...
"Sometimes I have a hard time controlling my emotions."--Iraqi Mojo
That is already quite obvious Mojo,
yet what is your point?
"Yet you claim in the same breath that you are not anti-Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) or anti-Islam Maury? LOL!"
Not wanting to live in the "age of Muhammed" makes me anti-Prophet and/or anti-Islam Marion?
"The Holy Quran is Allah's guidance revealed in the times of the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) that is adaptable for all times if correctly interpreted...."
Sheesh,thanks for dittoing everything I said above Marion. How is it you can make the same point without being "anti-Prophet" or "anti-Islam" ?
"Not wanting to live in the "age of Muhammed" makes me anti-Prophet and/or anti-Islam Marion? "--Maury
Claiming that you are somehow being threatened with having to live in the "age of Muhammed" is anti-Prophet and/or anti-Islam Maury....
I said the following:
"The Holy Quran is Allah's guidance revealed in the times of the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) that is adaptable for all times if correctly interpreted...."--Marion
You responded with:
"Sheesh,thanks for dittoing everything I said above Marion. How is it you can make the same point without being "anti-Prophet" or "anti-Islam" ?"--Maury
Please do draw the lines between my dittoing everything you said above Maury, so that you can prove your point...
Marion, these people are largely a lost cause. Everytime I think there's a ray of light, they close the window with some or other dumb statement.
Bruno
AMEN! Waste of time, COMPLETELY!
Marion, visit
palestenianpundit.blogspot.com
Good peeps there(Molly,Tony,Fatima,Lucia,V,etc)
Nobody like Craig and Maury,i.e.fascist curmudgeons who claim to be, of all things, Christians!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Claiming that you are somehow being threatened with having to live in the "age of Muhammed" is anti-Prophet and/or anti-Islam Maury...."
Bullshit Marion. Medieval throwbacks like Khomeini and bin Laden are a threat to civilization. YOU are a threat to civilization. That some so-called Muslims choose to mis-interpret the Quran is a widely known fact. Muslims are more threatened by people like yourself than I'll ever be.
"Please do draw the lines between my dittoing everything you said above Maury, so that you can prove your point..."
Please stop truncating my remarks, so that you can see it for yourself. Read the WHOLE paragraph in context Marion. You'll notice I was speaking about fanatics like yourself who want to live in Muhammed's time.
"I'm not anti-Islam OR anti-Muhammed Marion. I'm just anti-fanatic. The Quran is a reflection of Muhammed and the times he lived in. Time didn't stop after the Quran was written. The human race is well past the age of head chopping,slavery,loss of body parts for various offense,and the stoning of loose women,not to mention the silly notion that women are worthy of the same rights as men. Anyone trying to bring back the "age of Muhammed" is an enemy of the human race and the progress it's made in the last 1000 or so years. Your support of the despots running Iran puts you in the enemy camp Marion. You can quibble over the word "submit" all you like. But,you rely heavily on the teachings of Khomeini. You've "submitted" to his interpretation of the Quran. That much is obvious to everyone."
Yeah Marion,I happen to believe the Quran can be interpreted to reflect modern times. I happen to believe MOST Muslims are happy to leave the barbarities of Muhammed's age in the dustbin of history. My rant was against fanatics. Your disingenuous truncating of my remark,and subsequent labeling of me as "anti-Islam" is classic Marion. You don't play fair....but you NEVER fool anyone but yourself. And you wonder why so many of us find you a disgusting excuse for a human being?
"That is already quite obvious Mojo,
yet what is your point?"
I think I was trying to say that men are not necessarily less emotional than women. We react differently to different circumstances, I think.
Maury,
You cannot see that you do not play fair when you practice disingenuously using hyperbolic accusations against me such as "You'll notice I was speaking about fanatics like yourself who want to live in Muhammed's time.","YOU are a threat to civilization", "Muslims are more threatened by people like yourself than I'll ever be", "You can quibble over the word "submit" all you like. But,you rely heavily on the teachings of Khomeini. You've "submitted" to his interpretation of the Quran.", "She thinks man was meant to submit to Islam....or the most anti-American Imam....whichever is in vogue at the moment.", amongst so many other disingenuous hyperbolic accusations on other commentary sections in order to undermine me rather than honestly debate with me?
"amongst so many other disingenuous hyperbolic accusations on other commentary sections in order to undermine me rather than honestly debate with me?"
Are you trying to distance yourself from Khomeini now Marion? You can't have it both ways Marion. Either you follow his teachings or you don't. If you do,you're a fanatic. A throwback to medeival times. The enemy. Nothing disingenuous there Marion. Just the way it is.
Marian, I have no problem with China and Russia having close relations with Mexico and Canada, selling them weapons, and even conducting joint training exercizes with them.
Why should Russia have a problem with America doing the same with Georgia?
Georgia is a prosperous free democracy. It is a lovable country. Who would possibly dislike Georgia? Georgia's primary trading and investment partner is Russia. Georgia strongly wants better relations with Russia. Georgia benefits from a strong and successful Russia. Georgia is in no way Russia's enemy and doesn't see itself that way.
By contrast, Cuba is a dictatorship without freedom for its people. It has very "bad" relations with America. Almost no country on earth has worse relations with America than the Cuban dictatorship.
I don't see the comparison between Georgia and Cuba. A better comparison is between Georgia and Sweden, or Georgia and Mexico/Canada.
Where do you get the idea that US or Israeli relations with Georgia are anti-Russia?
Russia is one of Israel's closest allies. Israel will not sacrifice its close relationship with Russia for Georgia. In fact, Russia just agreed to throw Iran off the bus in return for the Israelis throwing Georgia off the bus.
America also greatly prioritizes good relations with Russia over good relations with Georgia.
Remember that Bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul? Pres Bush has been very pro Putin and pro Russian from the start. Bush has consistently bent over backwards for Putin (who he considered a friend.)
This is how Putin has returned Bush's friendship.
Marion, are you pro Russian? Are you pro Georgian?
Maury, I met a very nice and progressive religious India Shia who liked Khomeini as well. This Indian Shia detested politics and didn't care about Khomeini's politics. He however, greatly respected Khomeini's spirituality and theological mastery.
Interestingly enough, his Marja is now Sistani. Again, this person didn't like discussing politics at all. He was much more interested in the affairs of faith and God.
Maury, many Khomeini followers are much more focussed on God than politics or the mundane questions of this world. I greatly respect these types of Shia.
Marion, it is your seeming admiration for Khomeini and Khamenei's politics rather than theology that is most unusual and puzzling.
Marion, it is hard to interpret what you really mean a lot of the time. This is why many of us are so confused by you.
"This Indian Shia detested politics and didn't care about Khomeini's politics. He however, greatly respected Khomeini's spirituality and theological mastery."
Khomeini developed the “wilayet al-Faqih” doctrine,or the “the right of the most learned to rule.” anand. That doctrine is the ideological core of Khomeinism. It's impossible to admire Khomeini without admiring his politics. Politics permeated his teachings. It's like saying you admired Marx,but not Marxism.
People have an amazing ability to compartmentalize, Maury. I've encountered a lot fo Arabs who admired Saddam for "standing up to" the west, while they claim they don't support his behavior as a dictator. Most of these same people routinely criticize the West (and the US in particular) for supporting dictators that are a hell of a lot more mild than Saddam was.
Maury, forgive me for disagreeing. 
“wilayet al-Faqih” is only a small part of Shia theology. The affairs of God are far more important. You should discuss theology with a knowledgable practicing Shia.
This said, Khomeini gradually discredited himself with his own actions. For example, Khamenei today has little following outside of Iran (among Indian, Pakistani, Iraqi, Afghan Shia.) When clerics dabble with politics, they become suspect in spiritual matters as well.
In fact, Marion is the only pro Khamenei person I know.
The Shia Indian I mentioned wanted nothing to do with Khamenei or his regime. This is how most Shia likely feel.
"“wilayet al-Faqih” is only a small part of Shia theology."
But it was the overwhelming bulk of Khomeini's theology anand. Everything he taught revolved around that ideology. Maybe your friend admired Khomeini for poking the U.S. in the eye. But,his spirituality? HA! Khomeini bastardized Islam and Shiism. He's no different from bin Laden. Worse even. Bin Laden just WANTS to lead countries back into the dark ages. Khomeini actually did it.
"People have an amazing ability to compartmentalize, Maury."
I wish it were that simple Craig. But,Marion spent several years living in Hezbollah's heartland. She's gone out of her way to defend Hezbollah,as well as Khomeini and Khameini. One might even characterize her fervor for Hezbollah and Khomeini as proseletyzing. She's a believer. That she doesn't see herself as a fanatic isn't surprising though. Bin Laden probably thinks he's a moderate too....LOL.
Maury, you are missing the point. Many religious people don't care about politics. They care about transforming themselves into ideal followers of God through intense inner struggle. To some degree they might care about facilitating the spread of good values, especially among young people.
Many Shia around the world greatly admired Khamenei for his spirituality before 1979. This is why so many gave him a pass for the less important "politics" stuff for so long. But by now, Khamenei is almost fully discredited.
Maury, Khomeini hated the USSR and communism and backed the Afghan Mujahadeen. Many Shia admired him for that stance as well. They gave him credit for helping "defeat" the USSR.
Khomeini and the Quom clerics lead the anti Mossadeq Iranians in 1953 and put the Shah into power (with the help of the Iranian army, Iranian business community, farmers, Mi6, and the CIA.)
This is also an important part of Khamenei's legacy.
"Many Shia around the world greatly admired Khomeini for his spirituality before 1979."
I meant that 1953 was also an important part of Khomeini's legacy.
But Khomeini turned against the Shah when he opened the nude beaches to tourists.
"But Khomeini turned against the Shah when he opened the nude beaches to tourists."
That's hilarious anand. Can't have those silly tourists disturbing the tranquility of our nudest beaches,now can we?
"Maury, you are missing the point."
I get what you're saying anand. That Khomeini had redeeming qualities,or at least some folks thought he did. I'm sure Saddam had redeeming qualities at some point in his life too. Maybe when he was still a baby.....LOL. Still,it's inexcusable for someone to admire and respect Saddam imo. A monster is a monster is a monster.
Anand can you please provide your sources for your following claims:
"Khomeini and the Quom clerics lead the anti Mossadeq Iranians in 1953 and put the Shah into power (with the help of the Iranian army, Iranian business community, farmers, Mi6, and the CIA.)"
"But Khomeini turned against the Shah when he opened the nude beaches to tourists."--anand
Otherwise your claims don't have much credibility...
Thank you in advance....
Marion, Khamenei, other top Quom clerics, and the west have cooperated together for a long time. You probably know that the west helped Khomeini overthrow the Shah in 1979:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Mid...t/
JH01Ak04.html
http://stmichaeltraveler.wordpre...tern-landscape/
The role of high-ranking Shia clerics and Islamic fundamentalists in opposing Mossadegh, supporting the Shah, and helping the coup is discussed by Homa Katouzian in "Musaddiq and the Struggle for Power in Iran" (I.B. Tauris, 1990), pp. 156-76.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obido...0X/theiranianA/
Grand Ayatollah Brujerdi, Ayatollah Behbani, a young Khomeini, Fadaian Islam and the late Ayatollah AbolQassem Kashani (father of Mahmood Kashani who the hard line dominated Council of Guardians has allowed to run for President twice) were among the ring leaders of the 1953 coup. Kashani denies there was a coup and says: "In my opinion, Mossadegh was the director of the British plans and implemented them." Kashani also says, "Without a doubt Mossadegh had the primary and essential role" in the August 1953 coup. Kashani says Mossadegh, the British and the United States were working together against Ayatollah Kashani to undermine the role of Shia clerics. The second person who spoke on Radio Tehran announcing and celebrating the overthrow of Mossadegh was Ayatollah Kashani's son.
Marion, you can read Abdollah Shahbazi’s "A Survey of Stephen Kinzer's Book: 'Good Truman' and 'Bad Eisenhower,' An American Tale."
You can also read: http://www.ghandchi.com/iranscop...eh/
28mordad.htm
Marion, please google this subject on your own. The historical record is pretty clear on this point.
Can I ask you a question? Israel substantially backed Ayatollah Sayed Khomeini in his war with Saddam 1980 to 1988. Was Khomeini correct to accept substantial Israeli assistance? Do you think the Iranian regime owes Israel for Israel’s help against Saddam? If so, how should Iran repay its debt of gratitude to Israel?
From anands first link.
"NEW YORK - In his new book on the covert history of Iran's 1979 Islamic Revolution, award-winning journalist Roozbeh Mirebrahimi says that Western powers, including the United States, accelerated events by recognizing and supporting religious revolutionary forces, forcing the shah to leave the country and averting a coup by Iran's army."
Carter was such a putz. More than anyone else,he's responsible for the suffering of the Iranian people over the last 30 years,as well as the crisis the free world faces today. I was dating an Iranian college student when the crap went down. She hated the Shah,but she hated Khomeni and his ilk more. Mind you,her family would've been arrested by the Shah if they hadn't excaped Iran. And for the silliest of reasons. Her brother was a naval officer that didn't get good enough grades at the base training in San Diego. They either got straight "A"'s or faced arrest when they got back home. Like Sadman,the Shah had a habit of arresting entire families in lieu of an appropriate victim. As much of a prick as the Shah was,Khomeini was ten times worse.
"Using logic, is Allah and the Imams one and the same Maury? How can Allah(God Our Creator) and the Imams be one and the same when Allah created these men who became Imams through learning? And Allah is the All-Knowing?" -Marion
Uh huh. Wow. Very interesting. Bruno, what do you think of this great point Marion makes? It really helps your duo's case, you know, using logic. Don't you think Bruno?
"There is a major difference between submitting to an Infallible Allah, Our Creator, and learning from and taking the advice of fallible Imams who were created by Allah Our Creator" -Marion
Yes, I see, I see. Bruno, any comments?
[maury] "When they were fighting us Bruno called them patriots. Now that they've flipped,he tries to claim they were terrorists all along."
Incorrect.
I denounced the alliance between some Resistance groups and AQI before the "Awakening" while also pointing out that these Resistance groups perhaps didn't feel as though they had much choice in the matter. The actual Awakening is (probably) mostly Resistance members, but I have to also point out that the US recruited willy-nilly. Any scary-looking Iraqi with a gun was hired, INCLUDING people that the US KNEW TO BE AL QAEDA.
This I object to.
Yes, I realise that my position is probably too nuanced for the average pea-brained redneck to understand, but nevertheless, do try, Maury.
The first Aton post worth reading:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...9784345/
#301085
(Yeah, it was a joke.)
[anand] "Marian, I have no problem with China and Russia having close relations with Mexico and Canada, selling them weapons, and even conducting joint training exercizes with them." Why should Russia have a problem with America doing the same with Georgia?"
Because, Anand, YOU are NOT "America" and America does indeed have 'problems' with its enemies arming and influencing countries close to it. Cuban Missile Crisis, anybody?
Because, Anand, YOU are NOT "America" and America does indeed have 'problems' with its enemies arming and influencing countries close to it. Cuban Missile Crisis, anybody?
Actually, the Soviets are the hell out of latin America, Bruno. I bet there are more Kalashnikovs south of the border than there are people. You'd know that, if you weren't an ignorant white guy living in South Africa who thinks he knows something about places he's never been to. Cuban missile crisis was about nukes, not about guns.
Yes, I realise that my position is probably too nuanced for the average pea-brained redneck to understand, but nevertheless, do try, Maury.
Why would you say so? You are an average pea-brained redneck, aren't you?
'Actually, the Soviets are the hell out of latin America, Bruno.'
Precisely, Craig. Oh, wait, that's not entirely true. Chavez is being equipped by the Russians. Yes, the same guy that America has been trying to get rid of since he took office.
[craig] "Cuban missile crisis was about nukes, not about guns."
Read again, Craig. I said "arming". Nukes are weapons.
You're not doing very well in dealing with the arguments of somebody you term a 'pea brained redneck', are you Craig? What does that make YOU? A lentil brained redneck?
Craig are you serious about being a programmer? I find it harder and harder to believe. Programming takes at least a dollop of brainpower. How the heck do you manage?
Craig are you serious about being a programmer?
Not just a programmer, but a world class programmer in my humble opinion :D
I find it harder and harder to believe.
That doesn't surprise me. Look at your comment from 08.21.08 - 6:27 am. Read it. Does it make sense to you? I can't even figure out what you are trying to say there. How much had you been drinking prior to typing that out?
Programming takes at least a dollop of brainpower.
Not necessarily. There are a lot of mediocre programmers who manage to muddle through, and who got their jobs by virtue of being capable of sitting through hundreds of hours of classes and memorizing text books. But, that's not how I got into the industry.
How the heck do you manage?
I manage pretty well. How do you manage, working down at teh sewage treatment plant or whatever job a guy like you can amange to get?
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