IA,
This was a very nice video. I couldn't really see the dates on the stamps, but I did notice that background flags (which I think represnted the Iraqi flag at the time) changed twice. The first one was I think green and black with white at the centre, the second one was like the current flag but without the God is Great words.
And I see that Iraq too is also a country full of old bridges (from the stamps I noticed). There are also lots of old briges in Iran, which used to make me wonder if those people had a kind of obsession with bridges.
By the way, you know some while ago when Barzani said he wanted the Kurdish flag to be used in the Kurdish region, there was some talk about changing the Iraqi flag altogether. So what do you think of that?
Hi Z, This may shed some light on the subject. I remember seeing a version of the "new" flag that looked a lot like the *sraeli flag, but I can't find it now. Made me twist my face at the time, though!
Mojo, didn't u find anything else worthy of value to write about than this stamp stuff?
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Yawn.
Z, it seems that the flag with the three stars holds great meaning for Iraqis, and most Iraqis (except Kurds) do not want to change it. I'm not even sure what the three stars represent, but if they represent the Sunni Arabs, the Shii Arabs, and the Kurds, the flag will be obsolete if the Kurds get their country and secede. For now I think they should keep this flag.
lol, I don't has nothing to do with the poor Kurds or Iraq and its diverse people. The 3 stars was a modification of the 2 star flag of Syria and Egypt's. Iraq was supposed to be the 3rd nation to join the UAR - United Arab Republic. So its more of transnational/pan-Arabism flag. Red White Black has the usual meanings.
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.23.07 - 5:27 pm |
So you don't know if Iraqi flag actually changed? I was really wondering what that green, white and black falg was - it was probably the first Iraqi flag ever. It would be nice to know what really colour of different flags mean.
AfghanShia | 01.23.07 - 5:44 pm |
"So its more of transnational/pan-Arabism flag. Red White Black has the usual meanings."
What is the meaning? Strangely I didn't know it was black, I always thought it was very dark green colour.
And what about the Afghan flag? That too has black colour in it. Belgian and German flags have black colour too. Black doesn't seem to me a very happy colour. But I guess it must mean something.
You probably have some kind of "shia flag" in that head of yours. I am sure you have.
Pan-Arab Colours
"Black: The Prophet Mohammad (570-632)
In the seventh century, with the rise of Islam and subsequent liberation of Mecca, two flags - one white, one black - were carried. On the white flag was written, "There is no god but God (Allah) and Mohammad is the Prophet of God."
In pre-Islamic times, the black flag was a sign of revenge. It was the color of the headdress worn when leading troops into battle. Both black and white flags were placed in the mosque during Friday prayers.
The Abbasid Dynasty (750-1258.), ruling from Baghdad, took black as a symbol of mourning for the assassination of relatives of the Prophet and in remembrance of the Battle of Karbala."
RhusLancia | Homepage | 01.23.07 - 2:31 pm | #
Thanks Rhus - but the link didn't work. But I found that Green, white and black I was looking for:
Republic of Iraq: 1959-1963
Hmmm... there's an exclamation point in the link that haloscan doesn't like. Try these:
Evolution of the Present Iraqi Flag, 1963-2004
Iraq: Index of All Pages - click "Flag Proposal by Governing Council, 2004" to get the page I was linking.
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Z - red = martyrdom & courage, green = islam and harvest
'The 3 stars was a modification of the 2 star flag of Syria and Egypt's. Iraq was supposed to be the 3rd nation to join the UAR - United Arab Republic.'
That's interesting. So the Iraqi flag has ALWAYS BEEN obsolete! It was a dream that never became reality. To reflect current times, they should turn the two stars on each side into machine guns, both pointing at the middle star, which should represent Iraq. Maybe add trails of blood to the middle star, streaming into the black. I'm gonna have to play around with Photoshop and see what I can do.
Z - red = martyrdom & courage, green = islam and harvest
AfghanShia, what the hell kind of Muslim are you, man?
Red comes from the Khawarij:
The Khawarij were the first Islamic group to emerge after the assassination of Caliph Uthman III, forming the first republican party in the early days of Islam. Their symbol was the red flag. Arab tribes who participated in the conquest of North Africa and Andalusia carried the red flag, which became the symbol of the Islamic rulers of Andalusia (756-1355). In modern times, red symbolizes the Ashrafs of the Hijaz and the Hashemites, descendants of the Prophet.
Green comes from the Fatamids:
They took green as their color, to symbolize their allegiance to Ali, the Prophet's cousin, who was once wrapped in a green coverlet in place of the Prophet in order to thwart an assassination attempt.
Black comes from the Prophet Mohamed (who carried both white and black flags) and the Abbasids:
The Abbasid Dynasty (750-125
, ruling from Baghdad, took black as a symbol of mourning for the assassination of relatives of the Prophet and in remembrance of the Battle of Karbala.
White comes from Umayyads:
The Umayyads ruled for ninety years, taking white as their symbolic color as a reminder of the Prophet's first battle at Badr, and to distinguish themselves from the Abbasids, by using white, rather than black, as their color of mourning.
Modern attempts to combine these colors in a single flag is meant to show unity by drawing the various dynasties/caliphates together into one.
I'm telling you, man, Google is your friend! Try it! It's easy!
Hey Craig, you're still up to no good with your lies? Or making up bullshit that I threatened you or mis-representing what I write constantly? The question was in response to what the colors on the Afghan flag mean. Red comes from the martyr of Al Hussein in Karbala, specifically of the color blood after sayings that even the rocks in the desert of Karbala wept blood and tears for Al Hussein Al Shaheed. This was martyrdom. Courage because the Prophet had fortold Al Hussein of his demise, but he met still met his fate (kismat) with honor. For revolutionary movements, it also were red because it symbolized change through violent/bloody means. Green is a generic color for Islam (similar to the black flag) and in Afghanistan it also represents the harvest.
No government, or Islamic movement, has looked on the Khawarij movement as something that deserved "uniting" with. So do yourself a favor and stop acting as if you know anything... everything you have said has been wrong. C-bag
LOL ... welcome to the world of Craig, the "ruff n' tuff" marine REMF ... enjoy his delusions, why not?
Hey, AfghanShia, like I said... what kind of Muslim are you? Use Google, dumbass. Don't worry about what that smelly goatherder "mullah" told... that guy had no teeth and the IQ of Forest Gump. Remember?
هلو موجو
متكولي منين تلكي هالفيديوات شلون عندك وهس تبحوش بيو تيوب 
[IA],"That's interesting. So the Iraqi flag has ALWAYS BEEN obsolete!"
Yeah & how about your American flag? Is not obsolete also?
FYI, the Iraqi flag represents an idea to which the Arabs thrive to reach... If only u use your brain u would notice that the uniting colours meant the unity of the all the different forces. & what does unity make Ya Fahlawi? It makes the FORCE.
Unity makes the FORCE.
Do u find this obsolete now? The others' efforts to show the historical background of the colours would not have been vain after all. Everyone has his merits here.
Han-dhel n'allim beek?
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Saad, when's the last time Egypt, Syria, and Iraq were united? Shwakkit?
[Iraqi American], "Saad, when's the last time Egypt, Syria, and Iraq were united? Shwakkit?"
The US didn't fail its uniting 200 years ago. So the loss of a battle for u is the loss of all the struggle?
U see? U don't use your brains. Thanks for proving me RIGHT!
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So we should keep this flag in hopes of reuniting with our Syrian and Egyptian brothers. Because they love Iraqis so much!
I think Egyptians aren't Arab in the sense that Iraqis and Syrians are. They are Moor or Berber, I am not sure, but the fusion of blacks + arabs + whatever Egypt was during the Pharoah.
Iraqis are also no Arabs. And Egyptians are partly Arab-influenced but they are no moors or berbers and no Copts. And guys like Mubarak look more Caucasian-like.
And a union with Egypt and Syria. Never, never, never ! Iraq should not fulfill Aflaq's, Saddam's and Husri's dreams !
gilgamesh, I am at least half Arab. My father can trace his roots back to Mecca, and my mom has Arab and Farsi blood - she also claims one of her great great grandfathers was Italian! Iraq is a melting pot, maybe the oldest in the world.
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.24.07 - 11:19 pm | #
What does it matter what ethnicity we all are anyway?
""An Arab is no better than a non-Arab. In return, a non-Arab is no better
than an Arab. A red raced man is not better than a black one except in
piety. Mankind are all Adam's children and Adam was created out of clay."
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of Abu Musa]"
If that is true...then why did 'Umar forbid marriages between Persians and Arabs?
"gilgamesh, I am at least half Arab. My father can trace his roots back to Mecca, and my mom has Arab and Farsi blood - she also claims one of her great great grandfathers was Italian! Iraq is a melting pot, maybe the oldest in the world."
And so what ?
First, my mother 'can' trace back her roots to Walid bin Khalid. I looked up for this link and it prooved that Walid bin Khalid was never the ancestor of any tribe and the link of this particular family in Iraq is more than doubtful. We could go continue with other tribes. Let's take for example the al-Jabouris in Iraq and the extended Christian clan of Jabbour in Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Paelstine etc. What is the connection between them ? Just the name or more in it ? Especially both names are a bit mysterious after all these names are not arabic, and al-Jabouri is just arabized like let's say: al-Boushi. All this genealogy of tribes in the ME is more than doubtful in a historical sense, and it's more the self-perception of these tribes.
After all, if all the Arabs are Arabs, if you can trace back your orign from Mecca, then Genetics surely would prove it. But as the link I several times linked here about Iraqi Genetics, showed, the Iraqis are more related to each other and to their Turkish / Iranian neighbours than to any Saudi - Arabia or Mecca or other parts of the Arabian peninsula. That just shows that Iraqis have always been what they are and that just names changed but not the people.
Yeah, this claims about Italian, Greeks, Georgians, Armenians, Jews and all the other small minorities seems to be intersting, but I can't judge the truth behind it. My father once told me about the tribe of Beni Delfi in Iraq and it crossed his mind whether this Delfi tribe is somehow related to the Greek soldiers of Alexander because the name resembles much like Delphi in Greece (you surely know the oracle of Delphi) and this name Delfi in Arabic surely doesn't sound Arabic.
And I continue to think if we Iraqis are the direct, but changed grandsons of Ancient Iraq (interstingly the Babylonians didn't know any tribes), we should ask ourselves how it happened that Iraqis are now divided in tribes. I think that's because of the modus vivendi in the Arabic Bedouin society. So the tribes of Iraq came after the people of Iraq. Egypt for example never experienced a similar development.
And Iraq is a melting pot ! Yes, now you understand me, Iraq is the melting pot, not the Arabs are the melter and no 'Arab' country which stresses its Arabness has ever been a melting - pot. Iraq is the melting - pot, not Arabia (and surely not the Arab League).
Yes gilgamesh, Iraq is a melting pot. Interesting that Babylonians did not have tribes, and that it probably came from the Arabs. I did not know that. When I said that my father can trace his roots to Mecca, I meant that he can show lineage to the Prophet - it is in a family tree, framed and hung on my wall. My father is probably 100% Arab. I wish I had a family tree for my mother's side. I want to know where my ancestors came from.
"When I said that my father can trace his roots to Mecca, I meant that he can show lineage to the Prophet - it is in a family tree, framed and hung on my wall. My father is probably 100% Arab. I wish I had a family tree for my mother's side. I want to know where my ancestors came from."
That's no proof, my mother can do the same but we don't believe in it ! If it would right, a genetic test would be right, and up to now I haven't heard that all Sayyids are related to each other. But up to now, the Wahabi - Sunni money foundation never came up with such a test, not like the Iraqis and Assyrians.
If it would be right, genetics would prove it, but genetics prove the opposite for the majority of Iraq.
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