"What emotions does this image evoke in you?"
Funny question IA!
I guess the created emotion would depend on the person who showed it in the first place.
But does such a combination exist? Never seen it before - probably photoshopped.
And so quiet here tonight (today for you). Don't see CSS anymore. I guess I would be your only "admirer" tonight since I would be sitting behind my computer all night.
Thank you Z for being the only admirer here tonight (morning for me) 
Did you read some of the exchange between me and Saad? He thinks I'm lying to people. Z, do you think I lied to people by saying the Iraqi soldiers in that video are Shia?
'But does such a combination exist?'
I have no idea how Iraqi Jews dressed, but I imagine that a Yamaka over a chifiyya was probably frowned upon. I don't know though, I wish we had an Iraqi Jew to tell us how it was. Maybe Saad will tell us - he knows *everything* about Iraq. 
It's just a dream, I suppose, to ever see this kind of thing in the middle east, and to see it tolerated.
IA,
Your welcome. Yes I saw the discussion IA. I don't think you lied - and he is behaving a bit like a Dutch (he is also from the Netherlands you know).
The soldier were most probably Shia, but they are Iraqis in the first place, dont you think? But I dont think you are alier.
I have never seen an Iranian Jew either - they are just Iranian. Maybe more Iranian than I am! Maybe.
Yes absolutely Z, they are Iraqis first. But like RhusLancia said, it was the BBC reporter who said that they are Shia soldiers. I added 'no doubt' to my post because it makes sense to me. Many Iraqis get annoyed when we mention sect in anything anymore, as if it will help matters if we just ignore the sects of people, even if there is a clear pattern.
Z, have you had summagh?
IA,
You have no idea - but I dislike the BBC - good wildlife documentries though!! LOL.
I see it this way - those people (BBC in this case) dont really understand everything ... they try to explain things, patterns, events, behaviours, by looking into details such as race, ethnicity, gender, and sect ... But that is how they see it. They see Iranians as "reformist" versus "conservatives" ... I mean what does that mean?
Summagh? LOL! That stuff I eat it with Kabab - but I prefer lemon juice!
Yes it turns out summagh comes from a tree called Rhus Lancia. Last night I was thinking about that name, and wondered where RhusLancia is from, and I googled it and found some interesting info. I love the world wide web and how much we can learn just by sitting in front of our computers.
I've never tried lemon juice on kabab.
"... invasive tree African sumac (Rhus lancia)."
Invasive tree!
"I've never tried lemon juice on kabab."
I cant believe it - no lemon juice on kebab! I use at least half a lemon juice on my kabab. You should try it too. I use lemon juice on everything.
Yes I like lemon juice, and lime too. A few months ago CSS told me to try pomegranate with lime and salt. When she told me that I thought 'weird' but I tried it and it is SO good!
Yes IA, i also have my pomegranate with lemon and salt. pomegranate is one of my favourite fruits.
What is your favourite book, IA?
My favorite book is probably 'To Kill a Mockingbird' - that's been my favorite book since I was in high school, but as I've grown older I've read other good books. 'A People's History of the United States' really changed my thinking about America, and that's also one of my favorites.
How about you Z? What's your favorite book?
'To kill a mockingbird' is also an old black an white movie, which I realy love. I think it is made from that book you like.
I have alot of favourite. Usually the book I am reading and enjoying at the time is my favourite!
But my favourites are Brothers Karamazov, Animal Farm, of Human Bondage and Odd Women. Odd Women really changed my view on feminism.
'A People's History of the United States'
Is this non-fiction?
Yes Z, 'A People's History' was written by Howard Zinn, a professor of history. He is not afraid to tell the truth.
I've never heard of 'Odd Women', and I haven't read the other books you mentioned. I've heard a lot about Animal Farm and I want to read it. I remember you and gilgamesh discussing this the other day.
So both have tanned skin, curly hair, larg noses, are particularly harsh in their ignorance (one killed and tortured Jesus, the other killed and tortured the holy Ahl Al Bayt), and love money - can't get enough. So if we do a venn diagram between the traits of Palestinians and Israeli/Jews, you would see more on the region of overlap than in the two separate spheres.
Just kidding...
You can read Animal Farm in half a day. It is very short - main character are two pigs. As I remeber this too is one of exile's favourites.
And Odd Women is very good book for women who care about real feminism. Strangely this very good book was written by a man: George Gissing.
"He is not afraid to tell the truth."
What truth?
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 2:42 pm | #
Hello neighbour.
Venn diagram? I used to draw those for Statistics classes. No need for them anymore.
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 2:42 pm | #
Strange you should be here. Are you looking for CSS?
'What truth?'
Zinn starts the book with the European treatment of the native Americans, and how the colonists mass murdered them and the new Americans waged war against many of their tribes. Eventually the US govt drove the natives out of many areas, especially Georgia. The US army forced the Cherokee people to move to the west, and they gave the natives smallpox-infected blankets before expelling them.
IA,
Is this really something that Americans prefer not to discuss?
"smallpox-infected blankets"
This is called bio-terrorism these days.
It's more acceptable to discuss it these days, Z. But I still don't see it in the mainstream. I have never seen a History Channel special on the Trail of Tears.
[Z]"Your welcome. Yes I saw the discussion IA. I don't think you lied - and he is behaving a bit like a Dutch (he is also from the Netherlands you know)."
Nops! He is not from the Netherlands matey. He is an authentique Iraqi born in Baghdad, lived part of his life in Karradat Mariam (hopely u know where that lies) & then moved to al-Yarmouk district where his family still live. He is actually in the Netherlands. I see that my vivid exchange have broken a couple of hearts & affected the others...!
BTW, 'your welcome' is WRONG. should write "you're (you ARE) welcome..."
& YES! I know almost *everything* about Iraq bcs I read so much. Jealous? Serves u right. Next time u want to philosophise on us with your childish ideas about Iraq & Iraqis, try to do some reading first & then start your tackling of the matter. Not the contrary.
BTW, there is considerable litterature on Iraq & everything in it in Arabic written by iraqis. Pity u limit yourselves only to biased western & unreliable sources. Anyway, it is YOUR choice.
Ok? IA & Z?
[Z]"The soldier were most probably Shia, but they are Iraqis in the first place, dont you think? But I dont think you are alier."
Here we go again. People who don't know shit about the country, addicted to reading American sources (not even the respectable British school), & still come to tell everybody what is happening in Iraq from afar.
But well life is life & i don't have to linger in this mad-house all my time. Some stubborn do not want to learn.
I have other things to bother about. Among which the origines of the Shia of Iraq by an Iraqi author. Very interesting findings indeed.
---
Saad | 01.28.07 - 3:29 pm |
Ok Saad you are an authentique Iraqi (Dutch culture has so far not affected you) and I don't know shit about Iraq, nor do I know shit about writing English. Maybe you will politely educate me?
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 3:26 pm | #
"Trail of Tears"
???
'Maybe you will politely educate me?'
He will attempt to educate, but he will not be polite.
Z, the Trail of Tears is the name given to the forced expulsion of the Cherokee Indian tribe from Georgia. They called it the Trail of Tears because many people died on the journey (the natives had never been exposed to smallpox before the white man arrived, and they were very susceptible to it), and their way of living was destroyed. Andrew Jackson was President of the US at the time. His face is on the $20 bill.
"He will attempt to educate, but he will not be polite."
"His face is on the $20 bill."
What does this mean? $20 bill - is this a fine?
The $20 bill is a currency note:
http://www.crescentcitycoinclub....%20&%
20back.jpg
"I have other things to bother about. Among which the origines of the Shia of Iraq by an Iraqi author. Very interesting findings indeed."
Saad you actually sound sweet saying this. Almost like Gilgamesh X declaring "I'm busy".
By the way I thought origins of Shia IS Iraq.
The $20 is probably the most widely used not in America.
IA,
GOD! I am SO stupid!
no you're not.
IA,
Everybody knows about American notes. Except me!
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 3:53 pm |
What does this laughing head means?
What does this laughing head mean?
I was laughing because sometimes it's funny how we read things and misinterpret them sometimes - I have done it too, especially when I'm reading a foreign language. Z, is Dutch your first language?
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 4:04 pm | #
No Dutch isn't my first language - it is actually my third language (if I exclude the little Arabic I learned at school). English is my second. Actually I had to learn Dutch for the University. Master course are given in English here, but Bachelor is almost always in Dutch. But I am glad I know Dutch now.
Which other languages do you know besides Englsih and Iraqi???
I think in the eyes of Arab Sunnis, much worse is an Arab Shia than an Arab Jew. Listen to what the glorious the king has to say:
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Disp...middleeast&
col=
Ya Mahdi Adrikini...More and more Sunnis are finding out the truth 
[IA]"He will attempt to educate, but he will not be polite."
U mean u HOPE that i won't be polite after u showered me with your kind words in your other thread!???
But never mind & good I will start now to educate u with pleasure as u demand.
So please start reading the below info in Arabic. This came today Sunday. This is info u WON'T get on WaPo or your very reliable American sources. (Exactly like the story of the attempt to smuggle Ayham Samarrai from the court room in Oct 4, 2006)
Enjoy! (See post below)
---
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 4:34 pm | #
You are completely mad AfghanShia. Who cares about what that king guy has to say? Don't read that stuff. (are you a Phd student?).
"Ya Mahdi Adrikini"
Once a woman was taking a shower. Suddenly the lights go out and she cried: "Ya Mahdi ... ". As soon as she said that, a young man appears next to her ... and he says: "Hello sweety! Why didn''t you call me when the lights were on?"
I guess you already heard this joke when you were in the "holy" Mash'had.
Saad / (continued),
Ooops! I'm having problems with this shitty browser of IA's. I can't get it to publish the Arabic text of the piece of news. Ok, so i will just put the link below.
It is from the arab paper Asharqalawsat. It relates the details of an attack on the HQ of the American forces in Karbala by people wearing American Army fatigues....
http://al-nnas.com/NEWS/07/1/28usa2.htm
---
[Z]"By the way I thought origins of Shia IS Iraq."
Did i say the contrary?
---
Saad | 01.28.07 - 4:51 pm | #
You said: "...Among which the origines of the Shia of Iraq by ..."
origins of Shia of Iraq?
hummm... maybe you didn't.
Z - you are Iranian and relatively insulated from the clutches of the Saudis. The more oil the West needs, the more they empower this psycho...with $170-180 billion a year. That means the Saudis have another $80 billion to fuck around with other people.
Saad,
"But never mind & good I will start now to educate u with pleasure as u demand.
So please start reading the below info in Arabic."
Are you addressing IA or me?
Z, I took some French classes in high school and college. But I have noticed that meanings get lost in translation a lot. Even when communicating in a language we already know, it is easy to misunderstand each other.
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 4:55 pm | #
What makes you think I'm insulated. I don't listen to the Iranian News net work, which portrays Saudi Arabia as a dear friend and brother of Iran - or still pretends that there is no internal fighting between the Iraqis.
I am not insulated.
[Z]"You said: "...Among which the origines of the Shia of Iraq by ..." "
R u trying hard to put words I didn't say in my mouth? This is not very honest of u, or is it?
---
"But well life is life & i don't have to linger in this mad-house all my time. Some stubborn do not want to learn.
I have other things to bother about. Among which the origines of the Shia of Iraq by an Iraqi author. Very interesting findings indeed.
---
Saad | 01.28.07 - 3:29 pm | # "
This is what you said Saad.
And I am one of the most honest people my parents and friends have ever seen.
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 4:59 pm | #
So you did French - that is a very difficult language, even more difficult than Arabic. I tried it for a while but dropped it.
[Z]"So you did French - that is a very difficult language, even more difficult than Arabic. I tried it for a while but dropped it."
Et ça c'était la decision la plus stupide que t'as jamais pris. Ha!
---
Saad | 01.28.07 - 5:26 pm | #
Saad - are you showing off now? I cannot read that. (I am now 100% sure you are a guy!).
But did I or did I not put words in your mouth?
"And I am one of the most honest people my parents and friends have ever seen."
I just hope u r right.
---
Saad | 01.28.07 - 5:30 pm | #
So what happened to that education you were going to give us? You know you are a cruel teacher starting with a difficult Arabic text like that?!
What happened in Karbala? Accoring to your "reliable" American sources they were Iranian agents probably.
"I cannot read that. (I am now 100% sure you are a guy!)."
Why congrats! "Et tu Brute?"
Easy for u to ask for an education & then just refuse the challenge when it turns out to be difficult for u. Go get yourself s.o. to explain it to u, like this IA friend of yours i.e. Don't tell me he doesn't read nor write. Or is he only smart with insults & nil in learning... Well in this case u really r very successful in choosing your friends....
---
"Well in this case u really r very successful in choosing your friends...."
Yeah?! OK OK .. I mean look at you: so polite, so so smart, so modest, multilingual, etc etc. But especially polite, which really makes you shine out.
@ Z
Almost like Gilgamesh X declaring "I'm busy".
If you have sent a spy or detective detecting what I do and you know better then tell us, but you have to understand that sometimes people are busy and don't have the time spending with you.
And BTW, I'm still thinking about the "tabula-rasa" solution for Iraq.
And to say French is harder than Arabic is one of the most incredible thing I heard for a long time. Come on, French can be learned in a week or two, the vocabulary takes longer but French is nothing compared to Arabic. All Romanic languages are easy (except Latin, that's like Arabic, but surely no French).
.. and also forgot to mention: you are also the only authentic guy around too - all of us being no more than a fraud.
exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.28.07 - 5:54 pm | #
Here comes the king of modesty, politeness and authenticity. All rise!!!
"And to say French is harder than Arabic is one of the most incredible thing I heard for a long time."
Arabic is easier (for me) because it has the same alphabet as fasri and a lot of words have the same root. That is whats easy about it.
"Here comes the king of modesty, politeness and authenticity. All rise!!!"
Why do you make fun from me ?
What did I do ? Did I claim to be the "king of modesty, politeness and authenticity" ?
Is this Persian Politeness ?
And wow, learning a new Alphabet seems to be very hard for you, come on, you can learn Hebrew Alphabet in one week, and Dutch has surely the same amount of Latin and French verbs like German. After your words, it would be quiet easy for you to speak German.
And BTW, a lot of Persian words of Arabic orign have another meaning than the Arabi word.
Here's the book I'm reading at the time:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1860649661/
ref=cap_pdp_dp_0/102-8881947-1135368
exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.28.07 - 6:17 pm | #
"Here's the book I'm reading at the time"
Seems like an interesting book. Do you read it for fun or for your dictionary.
"What did I do ?"
It is your attitude. Go and compare Saad with IA.
"Is this Persian Politeness ?"
What?! so I have to write one page just to say hello to you (didn't I say: "all rise"). Persian politeness = making and uttering a lot of unnecessary sentences.
Arabic was still easier for me than French - and just because you are smart at words it doesn't mean others are.
exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.28.07 - 6:17 pm | #
"Here's the book I'm reading at the time"
Seems like an interesting book. Do you read it for fun or for your dictionary.
"What did I do ?"
It is your attitude. Go and compare Saad with IA.
"Is this Persian Politeness ?"
What?! so I have to write one page just to say hello to you (didn't I say: "all rise"). Persian politeness = making and uttering a lot of unnecessary sentences.
Arabic was still easier for me than French - and just because you are smart at words it doesn't mean others are.
To all my Shia friends :Happy "slap yourself!!"
"Do you read it for fun or for your dictionary."
What dictionary ? I read it for myself and to enlarge my knowledge about my sweet homeland called "Iraq".
"What did I do ?"
It is your attitude. Go and compare Saad with IA.
Ah, I'm Saad and you're IA. But that nonetheless doesn't explain anything. What is wrong with my attitude ? And why compare it to Saad's ?
What do you mean by that ? And don't talk like an enigma to me.
(didn't I say: "all rise"): Wow, your sarcasm is overwhelming, I even remember times where we exchanged just hello, but you seem to have the need to praise me in 'highest words'.
And making unnecessary sentences that's what language is supposed to do.
And I think that French for a dutch-speaking is much easier than Arabic for a Persian - speaker: even the grammar between Arabic and Persian is 100 % contrary.
And if I want to waste my time, I rather listen to my brother's stories than to you.
To all my Shia friends :Happy "slap yourself!!"
Alzabini | 01.28.07 - 6:40 pm | #
Hello to you too - your brother AfghanShia was really missing you.
"What dictionary ?"
Didn't you say you are making a dictionary of Iraqi loanwords? I just though you might be reading the book for that. But anyways I see you are reading it for fun.
"But that nonetheless doesn't explain anything. What is wrong with my attitude ?"
What I meant is this:
ادب از که آموختی از بی ادبان
And about French and Arabic: I was thought Arabic when I was 12-15, but I did French when I was also learning Dutch and I was older. So again, in my experience Arabic was easier than French.
"And if I want to waste my time, I rather listen to my brother's stories than to you."
Your honesty is very touching.
Hi Z. I still read IA's new posts all the time but I don't really like commenting here anymore. If you for whatever reason want to reach me in the future my email address is: falastin@gmail.com
IA, this is a really interesting picture. I have an aversion to the Star of David because it is smack dab in the middle of the Israeli flag and that flag obviously represents the destruction and devastation of Palestine. However, you know I thought about it and if I saw Arab Jews walking around with that kuffiyeh and the yarmulke with the Star of David I actually think it would be kinda cool.
Okay, what I read is from illiterate people like George Orwell or other ones.
It's a bit hard for me that illiterate people can write books but okay, according to you that's okay.
And that book about "the Monument" isn't useful for my 'dictionary'. A Persian dictionary is much more useful, believe me !
Your problem, Z, is that you avoid the unconvient truth and uncomfortable questions about the ME. I just think some stuff to the ultimate bitter end, that's my problem. But the fact remains: You avoid the unconvinient truth !
Hi CSS,
Happy to see you here. I still like it here though - better than AA or some Iranian blogs. And thaks for the e-mail.
And before I forget, I don't want to blame you or doubt your ability of 'code-switching'.
If you have problems with French, okay, not so many French people can talk fluently Dutch (maybe from the Wallonie), but sometimes 'code-switching' has some strange sideline effects.
exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.28.07 - 7:04 pm | #
What is your problem Gilgamesh? Did I make fun of the book you read? I didn't. What is your problem? You are the enigma - not me!!
"I just think some stuff to the ultimate bitter end, that's my problem. But the fact remains: You avoid the unconvinient truth !"
No Gilgamesh YOU are NOT the only one who thinks to the bitter end.
Yaqq Abu Fazl...look at the dirty Al Zabini show up. Mr. My Daddy Is An Imam, but don't even understand tenents of Islam. I wanted to say to you that when you take your celebratory fast tommorrow to know that you will burn in hell for this action, along with Yazeed, Mauwiyah, the Sufiani clan, and all the current baby-killer Ummayads running around in Iraq. insh'Allah, Habibi? lol
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 7:08 pm | #
I knew you will be back AfghanShia. My predictable neighbour.
"No Gilgamesh YOU are NOT the only one who thinks to the bitter end."
I know what you're referring to, it's the "tabula-rasa" option about Sadr City, but the fact remains: You don't think until the bitter end. You even didn't start to, and connecting me to Stalin - Trotzky isn't an answer.
And I didn't just tell you that a Persian dictionary is sometimes more useful to understand Iraqis talking. If you think I'm making fun of you, okay, sorry, I didn't want to hurt your nationalistic feelings or so.
exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.28.07 - 7:14 pm | #
No I wasn't thinking of Sadr City Gilgamesh - you can read my mind now?
And on what evidence do you think others think or not? How selfish! You think you are the only one who thinks? That is pure selfishness on your part Gilgamesh.
"And I didn't just tell you that a Persian dictionary is sometimes more useful to understand Iraqis talking. If you think I'm making fun of you, okay, sorry, I didn't want to hurt your nationalistic feelings or so."
What? You didn't hurt my "nationalistic" fellings! I have other feelings besides "nationalistic" feelings that can be hurt. I think it is normal that you should look into a persian dictioanry. Why do you think that? because I didn't mention it? What do you take me for: a self-important persian nationalist??? I will hate you for thinking that about me.
What do you mean? Ofcourse I enjoy destroying the kid's aqeedah.
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 7:26 pm | #
My jolly neighbour, did you learn this kind of behaviour in the "holy" (= unholy) city of Mash'had?
Z, those two guys you are "discussing" stuff with are totally nuts. They are really full of hatred and weirdness. You shouldn't waste your time.
exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.28.07 - 7:14 pm | #
Now I know what you think of me - glad to know it though.
What is wrong with Mashad? I didn't learn it, I was born for it
And CSS...Kaif HaleK? lol
Catholic Sunni Shia | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 7:35 pm | #
With Saad it was impossible to dicuss anything - funny because he is alos in the same country as I am. He expected me to read news about Iraq in Arabic!!! AfghanShia too is full of himself but in a very amazing way.
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 7:42 pm | #
"What is wrong with Mashad?"
Mash'had is a thief city - that is whats wrong with it. There is nothing holy about it.
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 7:42 pm | #
You were born with it? So it is a genetic issue then? Difficult to fix I'm afraid.
It holds the ziyarat of Imam Reza. And its just a city, ofcourse you would pick Mashad over dirty Amman or evil Ramallah , lol
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 7:52 pm | #
Mash'had is such a thief city that even if all the 11 Imams were buried in it it would still be unholy. I don't think Amman or Ramalla are like that.
@ Z
"And on what evidence do you think others think or not? How selfish! You think you are the only one who thinks? That is pure selfishness on your part Gilgamesh."
Didn't I say that but I still thought you were referring to the "tabula-rasa option". And: Ey yeah, I'm so selfish & stupid to think about that ! Didn't I tell you how much I read books ? If I would really think, I'm the only one thinking I wouldn't do that because I needn't.
Secondly, where did I say that you're ridiculing about what I read ? I just assumed that sentence: It's a bit hard for me that illiterate people can write books but okay, according to you that's okay. from your persian sentence.
I just told you that about looking up in dictionaries. I just told you so, and I got my own interpretation of your Persian phrase. Full stop.
And what should I say about such a phrase: Saad you actually sound sweet saying this. Almost like Gilgamesh X declaring "I'm busy".
If I'm busy, I'm busy that's all. I'm no addict to this blog and discuss if I have time. Is this okay for you ? Is it wrong on my side to link this with your disagreement about the Sadr stuff talk ?
If you feel offended by asking you about your French language or you post here Persian phrases (maybe I got it wrong) and come to wrong conclusions, that's really hard stuff. And if you still feel pissed off about my tabula-rasa option in Sadr city, I advise you to read the article in wiki about "Dracula" (the real one, not the vamp, the real one in Romania).
@ Eva Braun
You're comments are as useful and thoughtful as always.
lol. Were you battered and robbed as a child in Mashad that you are this bitter? Chill.
exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.28.07 - 7:58 pm | #
Gilgamesh - the only thing I can tell you is that you have completely misunderstood me in every post. From that Stalin comment, to this Saad comment and to that farsi phrase comment. Obviousely we cannot communicate with each other. Maybe you can ask about that farsi phrase from one of your Iranian friends (if you have one).
AfghanShia | 01.28.07 - 7:58 pm | #
I wasn't robbed by anyone: Mash'had was the capital of khorasan for many years and all the monmey coming from central gov. for khorasan was mostly taken up by Mash'had. Other cities in khorasan didn't get much. That is why it is a thief city. Fortunately Khorasan is now broken up into three regions, and Mash'had has to live with the fact that now it is getting less money.
who the fuck is eva brown?
haha afghanshia chases away the christian sunni bitch all the time. hahaha.
IranianShia, you post here only when CSS does. Why is that?
IranianShia,
So Iranians stick Shia to their names these days now? Wow! I call this progress. Shouldn't you be getting ready for Ashura? Together with the jolly AfghanShia?
Come on boys .. take off your shirts, oil your handsome chests and arm, splash rose water in your hair and make sure you are right in the centre so that girls can see you when you are beating yourselves for the love of Hosseyn.
Z, have you ever participated in one of those rituals? I heard a CNN guy describe Ashoura earlier and said that Shia Muslims beat themselves on the head. hmmm, I have never beaten myself on the head - not on Ashoura!
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 8:46 pm | #
Yes IA, I have. But I have never seen people beating themselves in the head, but I have seen that on TV. It should not be done since it has health hazards. Some also cut their head with a sword - which is illigal in Iran - but some still do. But mostly men beat their chest and there is also beautiful melodies and poetry is sang. Overall it is a beautiful occasion. Maybe Saad can tel you even more about how it is done in Iraq.
I have also seen it on TV, never in person. I have always been disgusted by the self-induced bleeding. As if this brings them closer to Imam Hussein. I don't think so.
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 8:57 pm | #
No it certainly doesn't. I really think that sword thing should not be done. But the tradition is very old and I think with good education it can disappear. But I am OK with the other stuff -
I will go and sleep now.
BTW Mojo- I am sure Ashura is also done in the US. So you must go and see one for yourself: good entertainment and next time someone calls you "shia beating himself silly" - you know what he means.
Usually the crazy shit happens in Pakistan and India. They are a bit overzealous, bloodletting is haram.
But Al Zabini, I am waiting for you to answer my allegations against your sect in the other thread. Go ask your dad to refute them!@!
Maybe you can explain that phrase. Doesn't it mean: the literature you learn from is from un-literated ones.
Yeah, who is the dumbass now, eh? WTF!?
Sorry, I just wanted to contribute something as useful as what other people are saying here :P
[Z]"Yeah?! OK OK .. I mean look at you: so polite, so so smart, so modest, multilingual, etc etc. But especially polite, which really makes you shine out."
Sooooooooo u r an Iranian? U should have said that from the beginning. I didn't know that u had problems reading Arabic. Neverthelless i remind u that it is u who asked first for an education. What i see is that u r running away from the field at the first skirmish. How courageous!
Surely there r many Iranians around u who know arabic & thus can make things easier for u. But well it seems to me u r not the enterpreneur kind. The one who arranges for himself to get out of situations no matter how difficult they r. These r things u should have learned when u came illegally to Holland as a refugee like many of us did.
But well anyway, i suppose i will have to accept defeat on this one too since u don't seem capable of standing up to the challenge.
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exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.29.07 - 2:58 am | #
"Doesn't it mean: the literature you learn from is from un-literated ones."
'Adab' means the quality of being polite, graceful etc. And 'ba-adab' and 'bi-adab' is easy to know for you. I guess 'adab' did means 'literature' in the old days, but 'adabiyat' is the correct word for literature. I don't know myselft why 'adab' is sometimes used as the art of literature and words.
And I didn't make that sentence it is a phrase that is used alot: my parents repeated that to me ten times a day. It comes from the story of Loghman-e Hakim.
Saad | 01.29.07 - 6:20 am | #
"Sooooooooo u r an Iranian? U should have said that from the beginning."
This is the second time you are telling me: "so u are Iranian". Something wrong with your memory card?
"What i see is that u r running away from the field at the first skirmish. How courageous!"
Yes Saad, my knees were shaking hard while running away. I hope to God you are not a teacher or something like that. Poor kids!
"But well it seems to me u r not the enterpreneur kind."
Never was and most probably never be one.
"These r things u should have learned when u came illegally to Holland as a refugee like many of us did."
You are very insightful too - just because you came here illegally or that other Iranians you know lied their way into the refugee camps, doesn't mean I did. I am a student here and I still have my Iranian passport and identity and my parents and relatives are all in Iran and are not thinking of going anywhere. So are you still hiding from the police Saad?
"But well anyway, i suppose i will have to accept defeat on this one too since u don't seem capable of standing up to the challenge."
I wasn't aware someone had to win. OK since you are 'man' (obviously) I will let you win.
I guess you are drinking too much milk these days in the netherlands. It is upsetting your stomach and making you sour.
'Yes Saad, my knees were shaking hard while running away. I hope to God you are not a teacher or something like that. Poor kids!'
Yes the Iraqis can be very harsh with their students. I remember one time some kids in my 7th grade class (near Falastin St) made fun of our history teacher, and he ended up kicking a kid! Good teacher otherwise.
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 12:37 pm | #
"Good teacher otherwise."
So you didn't get any kicking IA? I used to get punished by getting kicked out of the class, or had to stand in front of the class while the teacher humiliated me. . These days students are more scary than the teachers.
No Z, I wasn't kicked by that teacher, but he did try to hit me one time. In all fairness, there were some punks in the class who were laughing at him all the time. Unfortunately one of those punks was sitting next to me, and I couldn't help but grinning. That teacher had atheist leanings, and one time he said to us that when we die, that's it, there's nothing after death. I was amazed that he could say that without fear.
"'Adab' means the quality of being polite, graceful etc. And 'ba-adab' and 'bi-adab' is easy to know for you. I guess 'adab' did means 'literature' in the old days, but 'adabiyat' is the correct word for literature. I don't know myselft why 'adab' is sometimes used as the art of literature and words."
Adab means in Arabic literature and this notion still exists. Adab as politeness is used, too, but I prefer the word "Akhlaq" which is often in use. You hinted on me for my book reading so don't take it too hard if I linked Adab to literature primarly and not with politeness.
@ IA
You had a real couragous teacher, this guy was an Iraqi.
I also know the stories of beating teachers but I still think that education should go on without violence, especially in Schools and especially in Iraq.
Iraqi American | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 8:19 pm | #
"I was amazed that he could say that without fear."
Why was that amazing? You mean he could have got sacked? Or would the parents come and complain about him?
When we learned about evolution in school, our biology teacher gave us hand-outs about evolution and at the end of it she had written: "Chrales Darwin was damn wrong and he will burn in hell". Strange! The same sentence was written at the end of the exam paper.
exile - iraqi / gilgamesh X | 01.30.07 - 7:09 am | #
"...but I prefer the word "Akhlaq" which is often in use."
Akhlagh usually means morality in farsi - but it could also mean politeness.
"...so don't take it too hard if I linked Adab to literature primarly and not with politeness."
So what did you think I was telling you?
Yes Z, a more religious school would have fired him.
I agree, gilgamesh, school kids should not be physically punished. Smacking pupils' hands with ruler was common practice in Iraq until the early 80s. I don't think they do that anymore.
I thought the phrase meant: the literature you learn from is from un-literate ones (بي + أدب +ان ).
And I thought you refer this to the books (literature) I read
You see, that's what I told you that maybe you know a lot of Arabic words the Arabic words changed / preserved their (medival) meaning. Because of the medival, of the time when these words entered the Persian language. It's quite similar like in Dutch, German and English. Sometimes the words are quite similar but have very different meanings because the meanings developed in different directions.
And I personally know the word adab in the word mu'adab with a sense of well-educated but that's the only word with a meaning you took for granted. I know there's another word for writer (in Arabic Adeeb) in Persian نوسنده . That's perhaps why Adab as literature isn't understood in Persian.
"And I thought you refer this to the books (literature) I read"
I see. Although it seems a bit of a strange arrangement - unless I was stupid. But as you know now (finally) I wasn't making fun of you or your book reading.
".. adab in the word mu'adab with a sense of well-educated but that's the only word with a meaning you took for granted..."
Funny. Mo'adab really means polite to me. And Adab means literature in the context of for example "zaban va adab-e roos" (=Russian language and literature) - so the word 'zaban' has to be there. And adib could also mean writer in farsi, but it sounds a bit too oldish and posh; nevisande sounds 'normal'!!!!
But that is what makes Arabic easy. I just have to be careful with the meaning. For example 'nabat' means plant (I think) in Arabic, and it means rock sugar in farsi. Of course Arabic grammer is a real pain.
"You see, that's what I told you that maybe you know a lot of Arabic words the Arabic words changed / preserved their (medival) meaning."
Yes I remember that. And Gilgamesh, you yourself provided me with a good case that things can really go wrong (with translation)! You are a much better teacher than Saad.
Yes, school kids should not be physically punished. Smacking pupils' hands with ruler was common practice in Jew until the early 80s.
Chloe Jones
JRomances.com
'A People's History of the United States'
What the thuth is?
Chloe Jones
JRomances.com
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