I hope the Dutch Police have a lot of German Shepherds on hand.....
Soon coming to a theatre near you. This crap is spreading like wild fire and the ACLU is on standby ready to help the creeps.
the freedom to practice one's religion never includes the power to restrict what other may think, feel, or say about it.
the fact that islam requires dhimmitude and that europeans so readily SUBMIT proves that both are very screwed up - and that europe is indeed ready for their muslim overlords.
governments all over the world are limiting free speech - and it's all; due to two sources: muslims and the left.
mccain-feingold, hate-crime laws, and special treatment for muslims (because they are bullies and their faith is so damn violent and militaristic.
we need to defeat the left at home if we are ever going to turn the tide and prevent dhimmitude and creeping sharia - first in enclaves, then more broadly as they take over demographically from a europe which has no faith in God or themselves (democacy).
geert wilders is a brave man and right to confront islam provocatively.
people everywhere must choose: fight or surrender.
fight or submission.
the left has always presented this choice falsely: as a choice between peace or conflict.
as reagan says decades ago about anther totalitarian ideology with hegemonistic aspirations: you can always have peace just by surrendering.
the left wanted to surrender then; they appear ready again.
"freedom of expression doesn't mean the right to offend." Really? Since when?
dmb,
That would be my point. Freedom of expression means I say whatever I want whether you like it or not.
The Euros are so screwed up on this point. No wonder they have been fighting off Fascists for the last 100 years.
And now they find themselves wringing their hands once again and asking themselves what they should do about the Muslims and the Muslim haters.
My contempt for the Euros almost matches my contempt for the Muslims.
My guess is that the Dutch official sees no contradiction between his assertion that freedom of expression excludes the right to offend and the very many offensive things that Muslims in Holland say and do every day.
Very interesting. That's the crux of the problem - if freedom of expression doesn't mean the right to offend, then it doesn't mean anything at all.
"freedom of expression doesn't mean the right to offend."
So can I use that to silence all those Euro-lefties whose opinions offend me?
What really worries me is; if history is any indicator of what is to come, somewhere down the line American soldiers may pay in blood for the unwillingness of Europe to take a stand against Islamofacism. What's the old saying, "those who don't learn from the mistakes of the past are condemed to repeat them"
The more riots the better.. I can hardly wait until Amsterdam burns.. I actually hate both parties involved.
What really worries me is; if history is any indicator of what is to come, somewhere down the line American soldiers may pay in blood for the unwillingness of Europe to take a stand against fascism. Again
A slight edit of Rich B's comment to express my feelings.
I stand corrected Ryan Frank. Excellent postscript.
Not to belabor the point -- but American judges declared long ago that freedom of speech means nothing if you can't say anything that may bother someone else. If it doesn't bother someone else, why would your freedom of speech need protection at all? It wouldn't. That's why the statement by the Dutch minister - a woman, by the way - is so totally inane. Islam is like an opportunistic infection. Only when the potential host makes himself vulnerable does it invade. And boy, are the Europeans making themselves vulnerable.
""What really worries me is; if history is any indicator of what is to come, somewhere down the line American soldiers may pay in blood for the unwillingness of Europe to take a stand against fascism""
And be ungrateful for our sacrifice.
Guess they don't have any balls anymore.
"but freedom of expression doesn't mean the right to offend,'"
Uhhh, YES, it does!
Freedom to offend is the EXACT meaning of freedom of expression. The fundamentalists can riot all they want, but this fact will never change.
Liberty. It's the only thing that matters.
Note that we are still waiting for the release of the film of 'The Kite Runner' (excellent if not very cheerful book by Khaled Khosseini) since first they have to get all the actors out of Afghanistan to protect them from reprisals!
The book, btw, is great - my favourite line is when the young narrator tells his dad that the Mullah at school said drinking is sinful, and the dad responds, whisky in hand: 'piss on all their beards'. Unfortunately he goes on to say that if ever such idiots rule Afghanistan God help them all, and that (this was pre-Taliban) proves all too prophetic.
The right to free speech is exactly the right to offend. Also, one's right of free speech is not the same as the right to be heard, which does not exist. (Something the Dixie Chicks would have been wise to learn.)
Sounds like a movie worth seeing, in any case.
"Freedom of expression doesn't mean the right to offend"
Actually, freedom of expression exactly protects the right to offend.
For welcomed speech, protection of the freedom of expression is unnecessary.
For incitment or dangerous speech ('fire!' in a crowded theater), freedom of expression protection is not extended.
What remains for freedom of expression to protect?
- you guessed it.
The right to offend.
"Actually, freedom of expression exactly protects the right to offend."
Does it protect the right to dance outdoors?
http://eddriscoll.com/archives/0...ives/
012708.php
One does not have the right not to be offended in a free society. In fact, true supporters of free speech will fight for the right of others to offend them. They should read their Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine and Voltaire.
A freedom to express only that with which all others agree is no freedom of expression at all. A truly free society cannot permit the right of people to express themselves freely to be overridden, censored or penalized by or on the basis of other peoples' self-arrogated right not to be offended by that selfsame free expression. And that freedom of speech and thought is indeed worth risking lives over, in fact it is worth their sacrifice; for coercion and slavery, be it mental or physical, is a moral repugnance, worse than even the death of some of its members, to the choices, aspirations, liberties and futures of any society of people that demand to be truthfully able to consider themselves free. Such a freedom must not be allowed to be cowed or intimidated by threats of violence, either express or implied, for to allow such intimidation to succeed is to lose the freedom that it attacks altogether.
The offended Muslims are entitled to their opinions, and to PEACEFULLY express them. I am also entitled to my opinions. And this is so even, in fact especially, if either of us are offended by the opinions of the other. That unfettered richness and diversity of public offering, even, in fact especially, of mutually opposed wares in the marketplace of ideas, is what allows us to take their respective weights and measures, and decide for ourselves, from a position of being fully informed of each and all, which ideas from among the candidates we find to be valid and sound, persuasive and convincing, and which ones we find to be logically or factually wanting. Only thusly may a society continue to evolve, progress, and advance, and only thusly may it continue to truthfully claim itself to be free.
The demographic trends for Holland, just like France, dictate that she is finished, regardless of whether or not there is a violent reaction to this film.
The country is suffering a net loss of something like 50-60 thousand people each year. Most of those are the younger and better educated. In proportion to population, that is like the USA losing about a million of its best and brightest each year. Which shows as well that they are not willing to stay and fight to defend their homeland.
The combination of high Islamo-Dutch birthrate, low native birthrate, and high native emigration will probably produce an Islamic Netherlands in 25-30 years.
Those emigrants fleeing today will look back in their later years from (what they hope will be) the safety of Canada or Australia, and dream of the old Holland that once was, but is no more; lost forever to the brutality of the Jihadists.
Nobody else said it but can we imagine for a moment all the words the imams used in their efforts to "calm down" the anticipated rioters?
' but freedom of expression doesn't mean the right to offend,' said Maxime Verhagen...
Squeeze me, maxime, but the way it works is you DON'T have the right NOT to be offended.
The classic european solution for inconvenient minorities is the pogrom, official discrimination, and the expulsion order. Eventually, they will be used again (though not for a few election cycles). These are not inevitable and they certainly are not in any sense a "good" solution.
Freedom of speech and robust debate while keeping violence strictly off the menu is much better. It's a pity that it isn't permitted by today's european ruling class. Hopefully we can do better in the US.
"The classic european solution for inconvenient minorities is the pogrom, official discrimination, and the expulsion order. Eventually, they will be used again (though not for a few election cycles). These are not inevitable and they certainly are not in any sense a "good" solution. "
Except it will be the Christian or secular Dutch who will be expelled. A pity.
Unless you have read the Quran and hadith, people have no idea of the hate and violence in them. Please understand that the hate and violence we see today in Islam is just Muslims doing what their religion teaches and what Mohammad did.
Acoording to Islam's own tradtions, Mohammad attacked villages and caravans 26 times (plus 24-40 more he sent out) often at night or by surprise. He killed, plundered, enslaved, tortured men, women and children -- and even beat his 9-year old wife. These things were written by his friends and followers, not his enemies.
Be aware that there is no such thing as 'moderate' Muslims, only Muslims that are ignorant or in denial. Sadly, you cannot count on any Muslim to stand up for our freedoms. I say this from experience. I have sought out the so-called good Muslims and they, too, love and respect a man that killed, tortured, raided, plundered, enslaved and raped. When you point out the evil in the Quran and ahadith they make excuses and pretend that these things have nothing to do with their Islam. They are not honest. Figure out, if you can, what that means.
For over three years I have tried to find honest, sincere Muslims that will honestly debate the issues. No luck. All I found in Islamdom was hate, censorship, excuses and lies.
In simple terms, Muslims don't want us to talk about their scriptures and their dear prophet. They don't want us to talk about them either. I have been censored and delted by Muslims for quoting from the Quran and hadith.
http://www.kactuzkid.com/censored.html
The future will not be nice. I blame Muslims AND the gutless vile leaders in the West that do not stand up for our freedoms and human rights.
Old Man Kactuz
http://www.kactuzkid.com
PS: Muslims don't know or understand their own writings. They don't even understand simple words. Basic principles and standards (which they demand of others) of human decency do not apply to them or their dear prophet.
I am doing my part to fight this evil. I have probably the best studies on the Internet for Asma bint Marwan (murdered by Mohammad) and the events at Banu Al-Mustaliq (a village raided by you know who, with enslavement, plunder and rape).
...And there are the never ending shameless lies that Muslims tell....
http://www.kactuzkid.com/lies.html
I'd be more impressed with all of this Americans explaining to our european neighbors about the right to offend - if our own legal system wasn't bearing the weight of so many "hate crimes" laws as we speak
europe is lost folks - lets salvage the USA
Mass seething and violence? I'd have thought the Jihadist nutbags would rather be at home in comfy chairs watching the latest episode of Sands of Passion... Sounds like a Dutch translation is called for?
Bracing themselves because of a film? How about bracing themselves because its tuesday night, or because some muslim dude stubbed his toe somewhere or because of whatever?
Even the existence of this film, much less its broadcast, is excuse enough for savages to decide that riots and murder are in order.
Show the film, because then at least you can justify to the insurance companies that all the car-torchings were "justified".
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