I'm linking this on my blog. I am so happy to know I'm not the only protestant that never could make sense of this!
HeyJules | Homepage | 08.30.05 - 12:48 pm | #

Since I will probably never get through Dante's Divine Comedy, one of the more influential books I've read on death, heaven, hell, and purgatory is "The Great Divorce," by C.S. Lewis --

"You have been in Hell: though if you don't go back you may call it Purgatory." Chap. 5.
Donbot | 08.30.05 - 1:06 pm | #

Hey Jules:
Oh, I think the world is FULL of Protestants who can't make sense of it! Glad if this helped at all (and no doubt a few Catholics too!).

Donbot:
Excellent source. C.S. Lewis was a big believer in purgatory.
Julie D. | Homepage | 08.30.05 - 1:06 pm | #

You might enjoy reading Catherine of Genoa's Purgation and Purgatory. It has a distinct way of portraying Purgatory. Not so much a place of intentional torture (a depiction common in the middle ages, which is still a popular caricature), but a place where one is in pain precisely because the love of God is so powerful that one cannot, at first, bear it. Rather more like getting one's eyes used to the light than like getting a bath before going into the living room. (Not that I don't like your explanation, which was great. But this might add an interesting dimension to it.)

I *think* this is a link to my summary of her work on my blog. If not, it's my blog, date 3/24/05.

http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?u...s& uid=228177091
PariSarah | Homepage | 08.30.05 - 1:18 pm | #

That is a great description (thanks for the link) and I am wondering if St. Catherine's vision contributed to Peter Kreeft's view of heaven which seems to have very similar elements.
Julie D. | Homepage | 08.30.05 - 1:45 pm | #

I have a very simple viewpoint of Purgatory...I cannot imagine that there should not be a Purgatory! It has always somehow amazed me that people either don't believe in Purgatory or that it doesn't make sense. Somehow it has always made sense to me. Hmmm.....
Suzanne McConnell | 08.30.05 - 2:30 pm | #

From 1 Cor 3.

10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- 13 each mans work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Augustine commenting on this passage used the Latin word for “purge” and the name" Purgatory" stuck.
Hank | Homepage | 08.30.05 - 7:50 pm | #

Thanks for this beautiful post. As a "cradle" Catholic, I still find it difficult to explain purgatory to my Protestant friends. I plan to make a copy of this for future reference. Also, my sister says this teaching is one of the reasons she is no longer Catholic! Imagine that - this wonderful gift which God has given to His children, and she refuses to accept it.
valerie | Homepage | 08.31.05 - 7:15 am | #

Valerie, I think that so many people look on this as a "punishment" but upon reflection I actually see it as very merciful. When we are unable to become perfect ourselves (and who really can achieve that except for a few saints on earth?) ... then God, in His mercy, finishes up for us. He takes us the rest of the way. What a gift, indeed!
Julie D. | Homepage | 08.31.05 - 7:50 am | #

This thought has helped me wrap my brain around the idea of purgatory: Just as the space shuttle goes through the atmosphere to gain entry back into this world we must go through the opposite process to arrive in Heaven.
Hope | Homepage | 08.31.05 - 9:07 am | #

Ooooo, Hope, I like that! Thanks!
Julie D. | Homepage | 08.31.05 - 9:37 am | #

I was surprised that it wasn't too painful to get the two Protestants in my blog to accept (I think) half the essence of purgatory, which is the necessary sanctification we have to undergo before we can be considered fit for entry into Heaven. Unfortunately the other half, where purification extends past death, has been met with "it's not in the Bible." That sadly degenerates into a debate between interpretations. (sigh)
Jeff Tan | Homepage | 08.31.05 - 1:04 pm | #

I saw someone at another site who said that they were happy they were Protestant so they didn't have to worry about Purgatory. I didn't say (but thought) that it doesn't matter if we worry about it or not ... it is coming to us all.
Julie D. | Homepage | 08.31.05 - 1:23 pm | #

Good point Julie.

BTW a specific point made in that discussion I'm having is the ramifications of atonement in the whole concept of temporal punishment: what business do we have atoning for our sins after "the finished work of Christ" -- this is an oft-quoted line. So it moves across to the whole divide between Christ's atonement and our temporal punishment, which I relate to the divide between mortal sin and venial sin. It seemed to make sense to discuss it that way for me, citing passages from Hebrews 12 and 1 John 5. In a separate discussion I have with a self-confessed fundamentalist (for whom the terms "Protestant" and "Evangelical" don't seem to make sense anymore) , that line of discussion doesn't work because he doesn't seem to believe in sanctification the way we do. How come? Because to him, the base-level holiness from the waters of baptism are in stasis: it cannot be lost, only improved upon. Yes, I think he means "once saved, always saved." From that mindset, temporal punishment and purgatory make no sense at all.
Jeff Tan | Homepage | 08.31.05 - 11:14 pm | #

Jeff, I take my hat off to you because that sort of discussion really hurts my head ...

To me, the "once saved, always saved" just plain makes no sense because of our fallen natures. Even Jesus had to fight temptation up to the end (Garden of Gethsemane) so it is reasonable that we would also and that as we are not perfect, then we will fail sometimes. Even "saved" people can murder or commit other heinous sins. In those cases, where does the "once saved, always saved" come in?

(BTW, these are not questions for you ... just my thinking out loud about that whole question.)
Julie D. | Homepage | 09.01.05 - 7:52 am | #

Excellent explanation. In teaching in RCIA in my parish, I have found the first thing that needs to be said to a fellow Christian who has never understood Purgatory is:

Get the following two medieval notions out of your head on Purgatory, and it gets real easy to accept. 1) No one knows how long it takes. In the middle ages, they made it look like it was centuries, and somehow praying for the dead commuted the sentence. For all we know, it could take 5 minutes. Besides, time has no meaning when we pass over. And, praying for the dead is effective, even if the person died 1000 years ago. God is outside of time. 2) God isn't trying to sock it to you one last time before you get into heaven. God isn't a cosmic version of the Blind Justice statue, or the Almighty Evener of Scores. He is mercifully preparing you to be in His Presence, where He wants you to be, and where all must be perfect.
timmyboy | 09.01.05 - 11:44 am | #

good blog and everything ..
marines have bootcamp
Army has Basic training
SHarkman | 12.30.08 - 11:12 pm | #