Speak up!
Kristin Lavransdatter is an AWESOME series. I first read them for a college lit. course. I get so excited when I hear other people are about to read them for the first time. Enjoy!
I'm reading Black Robe right now and it isn't bad so far, although the rather salty language used is a bit of a turn off. The Lonely Passion of Judith Hearn was very good and I've heard good things about Catholics.
While Therese is very good, I think I'd recommend Tangle of Vipers by Mauriac, or Woman of the Pharisees--I know, you didn't reject Mauriac, but Therese is an odd place to begin. I know, I started there and it took me twenty years to read anything else. Now, I'd gladly go back and read Therese.
On Endo--Give it a try. It is galvanizing and gripping. In my group it was determined that The Power and the Glory was actually far more depressing.
I'm stunned that you never heard of Cry, the Beloved Country given the breadth of your reading, but then, we're all full of surprises, aren't we.
Brideshead Revisited is a nice, mid-line Waugh book. Nothing whatsoever like Helena and not nearly as black and as brutal as The Loved One, A Handful of Dust, Vile Bodies, or Decline and Fall. I think you have a good chance of really enjoying this one. As I said, put Helena out of mind. I liked them both but they couldn't be more different.
Seven Storey Mountain I agree 100% and I'm an ardent Merton fan. Dull as dishwater and painful. Not nearly up to his best stuff.
Dubliners--not like the Joyce of Ulysses. Accessible, and interesting stories. There are a couple that require more than usual knowledge of Irish politics, but none of the complications of Portrait or the Later works. Also the home of what is widely considered one of the finest short stories in English The Dead.
Kristin Lavransdatter BEWARE readability of this very fine series is sensitively dependent upon translation. If you start and find you don't like it, seek out other translators. There's one version that is told in a very oddly stilted language that in no way reflects the story.
Orthodoxy I don't know if it is that Chesterton is too smart or that he's too Journalistic. I've yet to make it through any of his nonfiction. I would recommend The Man Who Was Thursday.
The Imitation of Christ is one of those books that you'll get very little out of trying to "read through." It is more like your "In Conversation with Christ," taken a bit at a time and internalized.
So, there you have it. If you're going to give The Power and the Glory a try, you really must try Silence, the two are often referred to in one breath, and form two sides of the same coin in some ways.
Oh, and on the post below. If you get bogged down in Peers, look for the ICS translation, tends to be a bit clearer, more accurate and more palatable.
shalom,
Steven
Ok, here's how much I trust you ... I will put Endo and Black Robe back on the list. I liked Catholics well enough but it didn't have the scope for the sort of language or torture described by readers.
Try it.
Letters from a Birmingham Jail is a must read. St. Thomas Aquinas even gets a mention in it. I thought the letter was very Catholic.
Give Job another shot. I love the ending and with God dressing down Job and company good.
The Power and the Glory is one of the most powerful books I have ever read. The story of the whiskey priest is not a downer at all, but a great story of redemption in the midst of sin.
Diary of a Country Priest I found BOOORING and gave up 1/2 way thru.
If you're intimidated by Flannery O then try Habit of Being which is a collection of letters to various people. She covers many topics in the letters and is VERY interesting. Keep theme of redemption in mind when reading her!
I recommend The Long Walk which is about a polish guy in WWII who escapes from a camp in northern Siberia and WALKS to India to freedom.
enjoy your reading!
I read "Walden" after I left college and reading lists behind. Don't read the Introduction, don't read any study guides. Let Thoreau speak to you. Some of what he says, especially about simplifying your life by eliminating possessions is an idea I should practice more often!
Instead of "The Fate of the Earth" try "Earth Abides" by George R. Stewart. It's a novel and a classic (IMHO). I think his scenario of how civilization will end is much more plausible than anything I've read lately--and Stewart wrote this book in the 1940's, I believe!
Don't put Black Robe back on yet. I'm only about a third of the way through, so I may not have gotten to the rough stuff yet.
But do give Endo a try. It's short, you'll zip right through it, and it has given me much to think about for a very long time since reading it. I've read a number of other Endo books.
It also gives a rather interesting insight into Japanese Catholicism and christianity.
And by the way I don't think The Power and the Glory is depressing, but it is consistently remembered by the book group (which also read Endo) as the most depressing read of the lot. (Although they REALLY hated Love in the Ruins which was not depressing at all.)
shalom,
Steven
P.S. I'll post on Black Robe when I've finished and I'll let you know whether you should put it back on the list. In the meantime, The Lonely Passion of Judith Hearne is a definite plus by the same author.
And did you mention reading Memento Mori? If so, A Far Cry from Kensington or The Girls of Slender Means are a nice balance.
No Man is an Island is a very fine substitution. But you do have to be in a certain frame of mind to appreciate it. Kind of like "New Seeds of Contemplation."
The Waters of Siloe was another that I enjoyed. But I find I like Merton best in small doses with other things in between.
shalom,
Steven
If you want to substitute another Newman book go for "The Mystical Rose: Thoughts on the Blessed Virgin." Might be more up your alley.
Graham Greene is a fantastic writer, and Power and the Glory is a masterpiece. Lowry's Under the Volcano might be a good companion, although it is a bleaker piece. They both deal with drunks in Mexico, to put it simply.
Personally, I would rather have several teeth pulled than suffer through more C.S. Lewis, and I strongly advise Catholics to treat him with caution. The fact that the healing potion in Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe was not the blood of Aslan (don't tell me that would be too ham-fisted, as everything that hack did was ham-fisted), but a gift from Santa Claus tells you all you need to know about Lewis's understanding of sacramental grace. He is a snake in wolf's clothing. Avoid him.
As for the Dead Man Walking, well, yawn. I am sympathetic to the abolition of the death penalty, and it just about made me clamor for public hangings, particularly of the authoress.
More later. Amalia needs to go to bed. She is threatening to cut my hair.
Ah, yes, I was thinking about Endo as I was reading Red Fish, Blue Fish, a book that was quite influential on me when I was Amalia's age, that Scandal is probably a better first Endo book than Silence.
So, I cannot just trash Lewis and not suggest a substitute, so here goes: Bread and Wine by Ignazio Silone. Not a pious book, but an excellent one, well worth reading and easy to get through.
I agree with you that reading about Liberation Theology is about as exciting as watching red paint dry, and would suggest any of the Don Camilo books by Guaraschi as a substitute.
Now, Teilhard de Chardin is tedious, as well as being the root cause of the rot in the Company. He also has been credibly implicated in the Piltdown Man scandal, which makes him as dubious a scientist as he was a theologian. On the same note, Rahner is about as tedious as a Jesuit can get, which is saying a lot. For substitutes, read Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun tetrology.
Chesterton ain't too smart for you, you are probably too smart for Chesterton. His prose style was of the battle axe in broad arcs school, and he was basically just an apologetics guy. Yawn. He certainly thought himself clever, but he also fancied himself a poet (GAAAACK!).
Joyce's Dubliners is fantastic, and if it entices you to jump into A Portrait of the Artist as A Young Man, so much the better.
Also, I give a highest recommendation to David James Duncan's The River Why, especially if you, or someone you know, loves fishing. Or not, as it is not essential to liking this book.
The Autobiography of Malcolm X is fantastic. Everyone should read it.
The Cardinal Newman book is good for the ideas, but as a writer, feh. Fr. Schall, SJ, has a pamphlet that deals with Liberal Education that is better, unless you are keenly interested in the teaching of the Liberal Arts (which, I suppose everyone should be, but I am no longer so optimistic).
Thoreau is one of those writers who should have been flogged in real life. A real nutter, and not in the clever, romantic way he thought of himself, but more like an old Berkeleyite who fancies himself a hard-core explorer because he bought a tent at REI fifty years ago and used it a couple of times at a car camp. I brought along Walden on a canoe trip, at the height of my susceptibility to romantic twaddle, and just about buried the thing under the kybo. If I coulda gotten my hands on Thoreau himself, he would definitely have gone in the kybo.
Same with Emerson (the two were described by Ian Shoales as "insufferably smug").
When you read The Imitation of Christ, which you should do (not listen to, but read), follow it up with Vincent Van Gogh's letters. Many people do not know how profoundly influenced by this work Van Gogh was. Many people do not know how my little brain came up with the addled syntax in that last sentence. Never mind. Just Yoda channeling.
If that makes you want to read more on art, Robert Hughes's excellent biography of Goya is well worth reading (as is Art in America and The Shock of the New).
Happy reading. I am off to take drugs and get back to my sleeping schedule (we are at about 16 hours a day!) Yippee. With a cold, I become a cat.
I. Dead Family Walking : The Bourque Family Story of Dead Man Walking , by D. D. deVinci, Goldlamp Publishing, 2006
" . . .makes you realize the Dead Man Walking truly belongs on the shelf in the library in the Fiction category."
"Being devout Catholics, 'the norm' would be to look to the church for support and healing. Again, this need for spiritual stability was stolen by Sister Prejean."
The book alleges whole cloth fabrications by Sister Prejean within her book "Dead Man Walking".
"On November 5, 1977, the Bourque's teenage daughter, Loretta, was found murdered in a trash pile near the city of New Iberia, Louisiana lying side by side near her boyfriend–with three well-placed bullet holes behind each head. "
www(dot)deadfamilywalking.com/
contact T.J. Edler, 337-967-0840, infogoldlamp(at)aol.com
II. The Victims of Dead Man Walking
by Michael L. Varnado, Daniel P. Smith
comment -- A very different story than that written by Sister Helen Prejean. Detective Varnado was the investigating officer in the murder of Faith Hathaway. 2003
Detective Varnado writes: "For those who believe in the teachings of Sister Helen Prejean as her journey continues in her effort to abolish the death penalty. 'For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And, no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:13 & 14' " -- From Detective Varnado's new book Soft Targets; A Women's Guide To Survival
And dont' skip "Brideshead", please! That book is my absolute favorite novel now - it doesn't have a stereotypically happy ending, but it has the right ending. Fantastic.
You're right, Chesterton is too smart for you (and I), but he is soooo smart that he easily bridges that gap for us. He truly is brilliant in his insight, clarity of thought and ability to convey it.
Except for Erik's comments about Lewis, with which I profoundly disagree, I find much of his commentary a refreshing clearing of the air. On matters I did not comment on, I'm mostly in agreement.
I also liked the suggestion of the Apologia instead of Idea. But honestly, neither one of them really got my motor running. Jeff's suggestion might be worthwhile. I'm going to look into it.
Nice discussion started here. Thanks.
shalom,
Steven
Rick, oh how well you know me! :-D I might substitute Everlasting Man for Orthodoxy. As for why Dead Man Walking is on that list remember that always-useful equation "SJ = Society of Jesus = social justice!" Take a look at some of those other (red marked) titles and you'll get the problem areas of the list.
Kate, thanks for the Apologia suggestion. I have had a difficult time trying to dive into Newman before so any help is much appreciated!
Thomas More by Ackroyd: Excellent! Ackroyd though a secular historian is also a Catholic who gives a lot of study to the Catholic English culture More saw being destroyed around him.
Cry, the Beloved Country - never read the book but saw BOTH movie versions and they were both terrific and moving.
The Power and the Glory - if I remember right Greene wrote this right about the time Bl. Miguel Pro was shot down. It really gives a feeling for the persecution of the Church by the Mexican govt. less than 70 years ago.
Brother Karamatzov - one of my favorite books ever. one could read it over and over again and find something new each time. Dostoevsky was a genius.
Kristin Lavransdatter - a huge undertaking, perhaps the definite novel(s) of medieval Scandinavian Catholicism through the view of one woman's lifetime. I forget whether Undset converted to the RCC before or after she wrote the book but it won her the Nobel Prize.
Book of Job - yeah, it can get tedious but I think its worth reading for God's response to Job alone.
I am sure apologetics has its place (in fact, I know it does), but for adult Catholics it is a stepping stone, and I am concerned when I see large numbers of intelligent, adult Catholics lingering on that stepping stone for waaaaaaaay tooooooo loooooooong.
As much as I find Chesterton tedious, by the way, I do agree that Everlasting Man is a better read than Orthodoxy.
Yes, in fact I am so baffled by it that I think that it might be Uncle Screwtape's cleverest trick. Lewis is very good at understanding sin, and that is the strength of The Screwtape Letters. However, he is completely lost as to what to do about it, as is evidenced by his utter bafflement as to sacramental grace and his death extra ecclesia.
So, yes, if you need to glean insights on the nature of sin, Lewis is invaluable. But in many ways this strikes me as the same problem of reading only Dante's Inferno and ignoring the more important two cantiche.
I suspect that Lewis lacks appeal for Erik because Erik was born with the handicap of already being Catholic (:-P), unlike you and me (though I don't know about Rick). For those of us not raised from the cradle as Catholics, Lewis provides a very nice entree from the nonliturgical Churches to liturgy. He provides a reasonable argument for "liturgy" which allows those of us from the nonliturgical schools to ease into the idea of Catholicism--you know, "Well, if this protestant can do it."
An additional appeal is what you noted. And another appeal is that Lewis never did really write apologetics a la Keating and others. (Neither, does Kreeft for the most part.) Lewis wrote out of his understanding and misunderstanding of faith life, and thus spoke to those of us on a less exalted plain.
I've read Dante, and I've read Lewis. They are of course in no way comparable. But I did come to Catholicism, in part, because of C.S. Lewis. Dante, in fact, chased me into a far corner with his utter viciousness and impossible to believe conflations of Greek and Roman Mythology and Christianity. I've become mellower and Dante has much greater appeal as an argument for Catholicism now.
But I'm there with you on Lewis. That Hideous Strength alone makes Lewis worth reading as a religious writer.
shalom,
Steven
Sort of. And not. I was baptized as an infant (long story there), and that was about it. I only went to church for weddings and funerals, which, in a large Italian family, means quite often, but not for regular liturgy. I went from being a Stalinist dialectical materialist to the logical next step of libertarian dialectical materialist (still believe in class struggle, but figure out which class is actually going to win in that model). It was reading Thomas Aquinas (first via Umberto Eco) that I came to the conclusion that God existed. At that point it boiled down to Mohammedanism, Catholicism or Greek Orthodoxy. But it is a long story, which I have embarked on several times, but never have finished to the point of publication.
However, you are right that I never was a Protestant, nor ever had any inclination towards that side of the world. I used to go to Lutheran and Catholic mass every week, but that was because I took my Lutheran grandfather to his church and then took my Catholic grandmother to hers. I liked all those old Krauts plenty, but theologically, it never seemed like it was on that solid a footing.
As for Dante's viciousness, that probably resonates with the old Stalinist part of my brain. Somewhere, deep in there, I probably imagine old Trotsky knee-deep in doo doo. And I can't say that that image really repulses me all that much.
Now I have new reason to be on the lookout for it.
Peace,
KM
Erik, I am glad to see that you are finally appreciating SF.
You really should read Connie Willis "The Doomsday Book". Fascinating and compelling. YOu would probably also appreciate her book "To Say Nothing of the Dog".
I am sure that you folks are aware that Miller wrote a sequel to Canticle
And here is a list of Catholic SF
Gordon Dickson, who never converted from Anglican (despite the best efforts of Sandra Meisel) also wrote some excellent SF with religious influences.
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