This Is Not A Democracy, It's A Republic........
Dear Jenn
I agree when you write that "If you were fighting in a war with an enemy that wears no uniform, who regularly uses children as both bait and as fodder, to carry out deadly assaults,and one of your good friends had just been killed, you were under fire, and you reached the destination from whence the fire came, would you pause? Would you ask to see I.D. or would you shoot? Ask questions later?"
But supposingly if you have family in Iraq and dont have any connection with Al Quaeda. If your family member get hurt in such situation, will you not make a issue that why killing innocent people to kill terrorists. One just cannot shoot all to kill terrorists. If all terrorists move to America, will the President follow the same practice.
I am not a supporter of war, because its all politics. Terrorist got the arms and money from the Politions itself, and now innocent people are suffering.
There is no offence to your views and thoughts. I hope you will take it just normal discussion.
Nidhi
Well, without even diving into the argument at hand, let's look back at the spin machine to see just how they handle any battle news coming out of Iraq.
Remember Pat Tillman? Oh, after giving up a $bajillion$ dollar contract playing for an NFL team to become an Army Ranger to avenge the 9/11 attackers, Bush Co. wanted so badly for him to be the poster boy for taking out the "Axis of Evil" that they sunk to the unsinkable.
Tillman was killed heroically storming a hill in battle and they even stopped the piddling in Congress the day he died to tell the "courageous" story of Mr. Tillman. Hell, both government and military officials even told the heroic story at his funeral, right there in front of his grieving family. ESPN was broadcasting the funeral live and the whole country was overfilling with patriotic pride and falling right into the government's trap.
The thing is, Pat Tillman was shot and killed by one of his own men in an act that has since been attributed to "gross negligence" and the removal of several fellow officers and higher-ranking officials. Shit, the lie went so deep they just recently started yet another investigation into his death.
If you think you can believe anything these spin doctors say, I suggest you enter the "World's Most Naive" contest next month.
There's a great documentary out there detailing the Al Jazeera network that shows one of the US Military's finest PR guys spinning web after web after web of mindless dribble. Man, even the PR guy himself was caught apologizing to one of Al Jazeera's editors because he couldn't live with the bullshit he was having to pass along.
At any rate, the way Bush Co. has handled any news coming out of Iraq, or in America for that matter, is reason enough to question what's really going on.
Nidhi,
I always appreciate your views and comments. Hope you're doing well.
Every situation is different. Here I am addressing a specific instance.
But, if you look at it in the terms you lay out, if the war moved here, to American soil, would I expect civilian casualties? Yes. Would it terrify me, upset me, make me angry? Yes.
Look at 9/11, over 3000 innocent civilians were killed in the name of Allah. Just normal ordinary people, doing their jobs. The men on the USS Cole, again men, doing their jobs, they were not engaged in combat, but they died nonetheless.
Here you have a situation where you don't know what happened. All I ask is that before people rush to condemn these men, that they wait until an investigation is carried out. If it is ruled that they acted inappropriately, then they must, and shall pay the consequences.
I'm also afraid that this is not true Nihdi:
"One just cannot shoot all to kill terrorists."
I can almost guarantee if a plane was again hijacked, that they would take the plane down. By any means possible, and the civilians on board would be considered collateral damage. War is not pretty.
This is no conventional war; people decry the "war in Iraq", this isn't just a war in one country, we are fighting a ruthless enemy that hides itself well in many countries. Iraq was just a logical next step.
We can no longer afford to play the cards safely, we much act proactively, as we can see what inaction resulted in on 9/11.
Oh, Pete.... It is Pete isn't it?
Pat Tillman - Bloody shame, and a waste of a good man. If this administration thinks in any way that anything that goes on over there would ever be able to be hidden, they are fooling themselves more than anyone could ever know. They need to think Vegas rules, and assume the walls have eyes.
What I fail to understand is the constant personal attacks in regard to my naiveté. I went through over 30 articles written by left, right, and center news sources. News sources from here, there and every where, Australia, England, Al Jazeera, you name it. I would hardly call that being Naive. I would call that questioning, and seeking knowledge.
What the point is, and what the real issue is, is the rush to condemn, and the rush to assume from the left that amazes me. Constantly I am called a sheep, told I am asleep, that I am drinking Kool-Aid (hate the stuff.) When in fact, I am always questioning, and always looking for the real answers. I do not and have not ever taken the first story and assumed it was the only story.
Nor am I so narrow of mind that I will not accept that a story that seemed one way could be another. That's your problem, not mine.
In this case, there are many, many differing stories, from the villagers themselves, that it would pay to wait, and not be judgmental in this case. Especially in light of the negative impact it would, and does have on other service men in combat areas.
I can accept that, Jenn. And I might add that the post above is the most thoughtful, well-written and heartfelt one you've ever submitted.
Before we bend each other over and start smacking each other's asses, my point in bringing up Pat Tillman was that even if it's years later, only half-truths start coming out that change the whole perception of what's real and what's not.
So, though you say you read every side of the story, it seems like you always end up choosing the right and hammering home those points based on what probably seems true now, but most likely won't be later.
It's a shame to have to think like that, but I blame the government, especially Bush Co., for making us have to question every little thing that happens.
How can we be patriotic and supportive when we're constantly being fed lies? I don't want to support that.
How can we get a grasp of what's truly happening when all we get are staged speeches and staged reality tv? (I especially loved the US tank pulling down the Saddam statue in downtown Baghdad. Nice.)
Where were the millions of populants of Baghdad in that scene? There were like 100 dudes out there celebrating and raising hell. And the news tells us Iraqis are jubilant and relieved that somebody has freed them? Uh, maybe a small gang of maybe 1,000.
The whole perception of Iraq is distorted and the government has nobody to blame for themselves with how they've handled this from Day One.
While the prospect of a little ass spanking is exciting, you and I would never partake in such fun, so don't worry, we'll get back to kicking each others asses in short order. : )
Pete, do you actually read all of my posts? All of words written? I said:"I ask that those who so readily jump on the blame the Marines and America band wagon, at least wait, ask themselves some serious questions, and wait."
That's not one side or the other, that's just asking for thought, and frankly, I am a conservative, so it reads true that would speak with a conservative slant. It's also being rational. Rationality is one thing that is infrequently used by the left.
As for my perception of Iraq,I know Marines who are serving, and have served. I know, straight from the horses mouth. It's not all roses and poetry, what war would be, but there's a lot more positive going on there than one would think, but of course the MSM would never choose to glorify that, not good for the ratings.
Man, I'm tired of hearing this MSM bullshit, quite frankly.
Was the MSM questioning our reasoning for going into Iraq while it was taking place? No, and they apologized for that.
Was the MSM questioning voting innacuracies, which, by the way, have since been proven to have occurred?
The MSM has to report exactly whatever the hell it is Scott McClellan is covering up that particular day, because that is the official word from the White House.
The MSM was busy reporting about these legendary Iraqi elections and showing people holding ink-laden fingers in the air, and not even bothering to mention that it didn't really matter.
The MSM reports that "freedom is on the march."
The MSM reports Dick and George's speeches the last few days about all the progress in Iraq and doesn't mention all the protesters outside or the eggs the Presidential limo was beamed with.
The MSM really has no business reporting about a lousy park that troops were able to build in the middle of Baghdad and how the little Iraqi children now have a place to play in again. Then the day after it was completed, Iraqis trashed it.
A lot of what you hear is positive spin coming out of Iraq, Jenn. You don't see the MSM questioning much. Maybe on specialty shows and what-not, but those aren't MSM.
You'd actually think that since nearly 70 percent of Americans are now against this war, that it would be good for the ratings to start reporting the bad stuff and holding the President accountable, not the opposite.
On every station the other day, when they showed protestors on the anniversary of the Iraq invasion, they showed the one group of fools staging an Abu-Graihb sit in, with the broadcaster almost snickering at their ingnorance.
Anyways, it's fucked up over there and equally as fucked up over here when our soldiers return. Now Bush is passing the buck onto the next President to get everyone off his back about pulling out.
"One just cannot shoot all to kill terrorists."
And the idea that this is not a conventional war is important to remember. Thanks to the innovation of the US, we have saved lives. The quote found above is, in fact, how we won major wars in the past. I do not advocate this in every situation but in some towns...I do.
It was the wars after WW II that provide us with examples of how the mindset of war is only fought with a sniper rifle… results in a stalemate.
Vietnam, don't kill the civvies!
This war, don't kill the civvies!
We have designed bombs that can hit a specific window to prevent killing as many innocent civilians as possible. That has been a 2 edge sword. Of course it is great to save lives! But it also gave the impression that we can fight a war without killing a single civilian. Now we are in arguments like this.
At points, if you find a town that always has terrorists in and out; IEDs flowing to be placed along roads. At one point you need to quit the constant door to door searches.
Place a B-52 up and carpet bomb the shit out of the town. Don't stop at one, send another to carpet bomb the rubble.
If the people are not willing to stand up to terrorists, then they are not going to be those you want in society. Guess what, women and children would die. Call me the evil Satan out for blood, but there are many ways to fight a war and the fact that some innocent people die is a fact we must live with whether it involves door-to-door, bombing, or just one sole bomb.
How you can imply that the MSM is slanted right, which is indeed what you are implying amazes me.
Without quoting, and giving a million sources, on this one, we'll just massively agree to disagree.
Hello, Jenn -
I agree with mdconservative, and you - the terrorists are like noxious weeds. Unless you pull up all the roots, and completely destroy the source, they are going to pop up again. Carpet bombing proven sources would be a very strong deterrent to any more weeds popping up from that source. Unfortunately, "Diplomacy" has us playing a deadly game of whack-the-mole, and the moles have their own whackers.
As long as you continue to push people to think about the way the information is presented, then you are not a sheep, you are one of the sheepdogs.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks Cary.
As an avid gardening hobbyist, I must say, that never was there a more true statement:
"Unless you pull up all the roots, and completely destroy the source, they are going to pop up again."
Well according to Moore one of the Marine's involed was quoted saying "Fuck the women and children. They are either terrorist-makers or future terries themselves. So, we went in and shot each of them in the pu*s and face."
Can you blame them? WAR MAKES PEOPLE INSANE!!! U.S. = ANTI-LIFE!!! AMERICA = NO LIBERTY FOR ANYONE!!!
But you know, you don't have to take my word for it.
Good post, Jenn.
"Diplomacy has us playing a deadly game of whack-the-mole, and the moles have their own whackers."
Oh man, I just... I am laughing my head off, yet I think it is the best analogy I have heard yet!
It is just such a shame that it is true.
Yeah, the mole analogy is good.
I think "How about rooting for America for a change, you liberal scumbag" says it best.
Why is the liberal left's default position to blame America first?
Because it's easy cube.
"Why is the liberal left's default position to blame America first?"
Because it's embarrassing to live in the richest, most civilized, most technologically advanced country in the world and are being led by a former cokehead/alcoholic that can't pronounce nuclear or terrorist.
It's embarrassing that our government, both democrats and republicans, are so worried what happens politically that they can't help people who are still homeless in New Orleans.
It's embarrassing that we had the world behind us after 9.11 but have since become the moronic, incompetent bullies.
It's embarrassing that the government is basically a bank for the country's big companies yet throw pennies at the real problems in this country.
It's embarrassing that politicians are about as unethical a group as you can imagine and represent only a small portion of this country.
It's all just embarrassing and childish and a crock of steaming shit.
But, hey, at least freedom is on the march in Iraq.
Actually Pete, other than ranting about how awful the politicians are, you didn't really answer the question. Allow me to help.
"Why is the liberal left's default position to blame America first?"
Because they are a bunch of assh*les. They blame AMERICA, for a few assh*le politicians. They are unable to seperate the good of the country, and the good from the country from the Bush adminustration.
See how easy that was. Come on Pete, it's just that easy.
*administration
You can't pinpoint this to the Bush Administration and Ted Kennedy.
The whole system is fucked up and not efficient or conducive to getting anything done right. Look, as an example, there are people, our own people, still 8 months later living in tents in New Orleans and scrounging for ice and food. There are more than 10,000 brand-new trailer homes down the road in Hope, AR waiting to be used for Katrina victims, yet FEMA can't find a way to put them to use. EIGHT MONTHS!!! Now, sure Bush has made his appearances down there and promised to get everything taken care of, yet there are still people starving and homeless!!! If you were the most powerful man in the world, don't you think you could make something happen? If you can't, even though you promised you would, it must be the channels that are fucked, right?
There are indeed good people in this country, I'm not arguing that. Many of them are still waiting for some assistance in New Orleans. I like America, but we're being represented by a bunch of worthless jackasses who could care less about really getting anything done except whatever it takes to be reelected.
Some of the smartest people in the world are not the most articulate speakers.
If you want to elect people based on how much time they spent using hooked-on-phonics then go ahead.
He is a real person that doesn't rehearse his every waking moment. If you are looking for smooth talkers, I think your new pool of politicians on the left will come from used car salesman.
PS - In retrospect... I apologize to used car salesmen, I now realize it is an insult to compare you to a liberal politician.
Do not get me started on Katrina. DO NOT.
You guys need to wake up.
Seriously. Yeah, Bush is one of the smartest people in the world. Good luck selling that one, jackass.
This is a waste of my time.
Well, Pete, think about it.
Think of what he's accused of doing. Call him an evil genious if you will. But if he were able to do all that the left accuses him of, he'd have to be.
Rove = Bush's brain.
I love how at the press conference yesterday this nice little lady stands up and says, "uh, it seems like the media is ignoring the good news coming out of Iraq." I swear it was Jenn. Then, Bush, all fucking smirky and shoulders hopping up and down says, "Hehehehehe, ya' think?"
It was so staged it was pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Speaking of which:
Administration Reports Refute Right-Wing’s Media Bashing
The latest White House talking point on Iraq is that the media is systematically ignoring the “good news” about the war. Secretary Rumsfeld has led the charge, and right-wing bloggers are serving as an echo chamber. (HENCE, JENN) Last night, Newsweek’s Richard Wolffe explained what’s going on:
At a time when…conservatives in general are feeling very disillusioned about the war and about their president, you’ve got to find something to rally around. Beating up the media is one of those.
So far, the public isn’t buying the spin: 60 percent of Americans believe that the media are reporting events in Iraq either accurately or better than they really are. And they’re right.
Eyewitness accounts both by the Bush administration and by journalists on the ground back up the media’s perspective of the chaos and refute the right-wing’s claims of journalistic neglect:
State Department Human Rights Practices report on Iraq, 3/8/06:
[A] climate of extreme violence in which people were killed for political and other reasons. … Bombings, executions, killings, kidnappings, shootings, and intimidation were a daily occurrence throughout all regions and sectors of society. An illustrative list of these attacks, even a highly selective one, could scarcely reflect the broad dimension of the violence.
U.S. Agency for International Development report on Iraq, 1/2/06:
Former regime elements, foreign fighters and Islamic extremists continue to conduct terrorist attacks with devastating effect upon Iraqi civilians.
NBC reporter, Richard Engel, “the only television news correspondent to cover the entire war in Iraq for an American television network from Baghdad,” 3/22/06:
I think the security problem is the overall story and most Iraqi’s I speak to say — actually most reporters get it wrong — it’s the situation on the ground is actually worse than the images we project on television.
As a matter of fact, let's get you started on Katrina. I need some afternoon comic relief.
No matter what you say, there's absolutely nothing that changes the fact that our government has forgotten about these people and it's absolutely atrocious.
I'm sure you're all, "it's the mayor's fault, it's the governor's fault." Well, that may be, but it doesn't change the fact that the government should be behind these people who were involved in the worst national disaster on our soil ever. NO EXCUSE!!
Let's hear your chocolate city jabs.
Oh, but Brownie did a heckuva job, for sure. (Even though Dubya said he didn't hear about the hurricane until a much later date than THE FUCKING VIDEO OF HIM GETTING BRIEFED shows.)
LIAR
1)The WEEK prior to Katrina's landfall,I, in San Diego, C.A. knew how bad it was going to be.(In fact we donated money to the Red Cross in advance.)
2)On the day after Katrina, and indeed, while she raged on; t.v. reporters talking with locals showed the same thing, over and over.....and I quote," Yeah, we were told to get out, we just didn't think it was going to be so bad." Now, who's fault is it that they were still there?
3) The only people I have ANY pity for are those who had no way to get out; elderly, children with retarded parents and the disabled. Though here, I do blame the local officials, because it was indeed their fault that these people couldn't leave.The idiots who were in the streets, looting and whining, I have no pity for, if you can loot, and whine, you could have walked or bused your ass outta there. These are the same people that are still homeless.
4)The video, in case you missed it did not tell Bush that the levee's would break, only that the storm surge could go over them. Hence his call for a city wide evacuation. No one knew the levee's would actually break.
5) It is indeed the duty of local officials to provide emergency services to their people. They failed, miserably. In fact, a lot of the beuracracy in regards to housing even now is due to the local officials issues with placement. "it's the mayor's fault, it's the governor's fault." Well, that may be." Yes, it is.
6) I was rendered both homeless, and lost all my possessions last year. I am not wealthy, yet I was able to obtain housing in less than a week.And missed only 2 days of work. With no help from the government. You're right 8 months is too long, these government teet sucking losers need to get off their collective asses and work. Babs Bush was right, a lot of them are better off now than they were then. Sad, but true.
7)Chocolate city....what an ass Nagin is. Bigot.
Brownie is gone, because he did not do a good job. Easy Peasy.
People like you who sh*t upon the federal government and then blame them for all the worlds ills: In the words of John Green,"Make me want to puke."
Okay, I've had enough.
You're sick. Truly. I feel sorry for you and your terrible attitude towards the well-being of stranded people.
Karma is a bitch, Jenn.
It's shit like that last post that makes me wish people like you could all move off to one selfish, uncompassionate island and fend for yourselves.
I don't know how you sleep at night.
Yeah, don't worry my Karma bank is just fine.
It's time people took personal responsibility. Stop blaming others for their problems and help themselves.
You too Jenn? My karma bank is doing pretty well. I guess us evil Republicans should not save up. I mean the left isn't. Hey, if they need good karma they will just demand it from FEMA and the Federal Government.
No offense to those in N.O. but it is about the dumbest place to live. Why did the French Q. not flood? The French built there because it was the one place, at the time(note), that would not flood. The rest of the area would flood or was marsh. I remember years upon years ago in engineering learning about how N.O. was a gigantic disaster waiting to happen. Now I know that for a fact, and I have never BEEN to N.O. Anyone that has watched the Discovery Channel could even know most of this.
Why don't the people of LA pay for all of this? If my vacation place on the Eastern Shore got taken out, I wouldn't expect for the people of N.O. to pay for it. I would pull my damn ass up, my head and tears out of my beer, and get working myself to rebuild it.
I would not demand FEMA to house me for anymore than a week, at most if at all. I personally don't expect, nor do I find it fair to be charged for problems there. Did the people of the 9th District send checks up to the north every winter to help pay for snow plowing?
Well MD, didn't you read that Pew research poll, We are just happier folks.
This "I DEMAND" attitude is what get's people into these situations in the beginning, and making excuses for them at this late stage only makes it worse.
OMG you do attract some loonies, don't you, Jenn. I can't believe people actually believe the stuff they write. It would be funny if it weren't true.
Sometimes all I want to say is SUCK IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and move on. So frustrating.
The best standby is to just ask them to read my "mission statement" found at the top of my blog, and move on.
Jenn, can you please do me a favor and refrain from using the words "move" and "on" so close to one another, there is some reason it irks me...
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