This Is Not A Democracy, It's A Republic........
I would say it is freedom of speech. You are free to say whatever you wish in this country. Just be aware however that said speech may come with consequences.....such as jail and fines.
I really can't buy the "freedom of press" crap. The founding fathers intended a free press to allow political discourse and discussion of the issues without fear of penalty or reprecussion. They did not intend, I'm sure, freedom of the press to include subversion of government, revealing national security secrets and giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
In my book, Kellers excuses about these revelations being in the public interest fall short and are flimsy at best. I would consider their acts treason and prosecute the owners, editors and leakers with such.
What would really be in the public's interest would be the capture and subsequent elimination of those who don't like the American Way of Life - to include terrorists of all stripes, Islamo-facists, Michael Moore & Co., and publishers who let secret information get published.
On the other hand, this may have been a test - this information was only released to certain people at certain places; the source of the "leak" may be getting dealt with as we speak, and we won't find out until this is all over.
Shaw, right.
I'm sure petey-poo has a copy. But I doubt he'd give it up. It is holy writ to people like him.
Essentially these slime bags reason is simply, we hate Bussh so we don't care. Treasonous Bastids!
VW
Waaa! Treason!
Why do you hate democracy?
Brad.......what a dunce. Anyone know if this brad guy uses artificial respiration? I would find it hard to believe he can breath and try to think at the same time.
I like Democracy, to a point. But I live in a Republic.
Come on now Brad... it goes...."And to the REPUBLIC for which it stands...."
This is not a democracy. If Brad's Brain had more than one cell, he would know that.
If Brad thinks that helping terrorists (Possibly aiding in a future attack on his own damn countrymen) is democratic, then he is beyond stupid.
I agree - it is absolutely treason! I'm tired of these a$$hats giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I'm truly at the point where I not only want these people thrown in jail, I want the damn papers closed down!
It's not only the NY Times - it was also the LA Times, Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal (that last one surprised me).
It's time to make some examples of these people. ALL of them, from the original leak all the way up to the editor. And not just a slap on the wrist sentence either - a real nice long sentence like, say, LIFE! And if anyone dies as a result of their actions - then throw the death penalty at them!
Is Brad a "drive-by" commenter? You know, spouts some moonbattery then doesn't come back to see what others have to say about it, for fear of having to defend/explain his crackpot shizit or offending his leftist sensibilities?
Jenn - Is there in your mind a difference between this published leak and a published leak of the time & location a special forces unit was moving to carry out Necessary Operation X?
Jenn:
You can easily discount Brad -- he doesn't know what he's talking about (and he'll cuss out anyone who begs to differ). Careful when comparing the forms of democracy, though -- i.e., direct democracy versus republicanism: They're both democratic systems of governance, the latter in which elected representatives hold power in the name of, and are responsible to, the people.
Take it easy.
The press didn't do this sort of thing in the past. What if the media had published the secret fact that the US had only two nukes to drop on Japan in 1945?
Throw ‘em all away and toss the key in the East River. Or to make a point hang it on the very top of the Statue of Liberty’s torch.
As for the paper, if your bird can wait in line… I’ll be done any minute.
We should have a NYT burning right in front of their office. I bet the left would go nuts! Hey, if you can burn the flag you sure as hell should be able to torch the times in public.
Of all the ignorant comments, I enjoyed ptg's the best. Usually the Leffingwell guy wins for the sheer ignorance of his comments, but ptg hit one out of the park with that last comment.
Instantly vaporizing a quarter million people that were attempting to surrender anyway just might not be enough. If those dirty slant-eyed bastards found out we only had two, they would have just kept trying to surrender, huh?
If any of you people would take the time to learn something about the world around you, you'd understand that covert actions are primarily aimed to keep information from us, the domestic population. Do you dolts really not get that?
Do you think the stories of radiation sickness after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were kept from the American public for security reasons? Do you really think they are worried that Osama and his gang are going to find out we---OH MY GOD---eavesdrop on telephone conversations? It's not kept a secret from Bin Laden and his network of terrorists; if they have any training at all they understand the sensitivity of communications. It's a secret from you, dumbasses. The government doesn't want you to know what they are doing--not to protect you--but because they are screwing you over on a daily basis. And let's just be clear here. I'm taling about both parties.
You may want a plutocracy. Some of you might be happy with a Republic. I'll take democracy, democracy, and more democracy, thank you very much.
Sorry, Jenn. I wish I had time to point out the glaring factual errors in this wonderful piece of hackery, but I think this comment shall suffice.
dave
dingbat dave
"a quarter million people that were attempting to surrender"
Where the F did you come up with that
?
It was only after the first bomb was dropped did the even accept communucation for surrender and refused ALL conditions.
Doesnt sound to me like they were trying to surrender.
There were Japanese soldiers who were on bypassed islands that AFTER the surrender was signed were still fighting refusing to believe the Emporor would surrender before taking his own life.
Its the low level operatives who are not nearly as careful simply because they have not been trained to do so they have only been trained or brainwashed to kill themselves and as many innocent people as they can.
Anarchist Dave is still bitching about the end of WW II...and I make the dumb comments?
How's that medication for projection coming, dipshit?
I'm at a loss for words (not usually my issue) on how one could actually respond to the idiocy that Dave spews.
1) Dave has no interest whatsoever in any type of Democracy. He's an anarchist, self proclaimed. Oh, don't forget a socialist, also self proclaimed. And a huge friend of the union mobs.
2)"Dirty slant eyed bastards"....nice sarcasm... but, whatever YOU choose to call them, I'll use "Japanese", they were in no way surrendering. What crap pipe did you hit tonight Bhuddah boy?
3)Shocking, but after speaking with my father, he said there was common knowledge that the people there suffered after effects of radiation, and it scared the ever loving piss out of most of the world. Hence the end of WW2.
4) Frickin' Dave. WHAT IS A SECRET FROM ME?????? HUH??????? Nothing is. We've got the MSM to tell us all, all the time. Mayhap they've got the inside edge on where the mother of all bass will be this Saturday?????? I could actually USE that info.
5)Don't you chicken curry (worry) Dave, I know you're "taling about both parties." You hate America from the top down.
6) WTF are,"glaring factual errors". How can an error be factual? By it's own existence as an error, would it not be non-factual?
Dave, you're losing what small touch you once had with reality. Better hold on tight, we're in for the long haul.
Actually, I kinda wish for the group-think of WWII - at least the whole freaking planet would be on the same page as far as these freaking Islamofasist are concerned!
What we have instead is a bunch of power hungry dollar/euro/yen/etc/etc/ driven drivel, intent upon appeasing these religious fascist a$$hats, that WILL NOT come together to CRUSH these barbarians!
As with the axis of evil during WWII, we COULD destroy these new fascist if we have the WILL to do so! Crush them to the point that they HOWL for mercy and surrender!
Yo - PLANET! We are ALL Rome and the barbarians (all of ISLAM) are at the gate!
Any treaty signed should have a codicil that says somethng to the effect that if they EVER become beligerants again, we (the planet) have the right to wipe them from the face of the Earth!
Dave you ignorant slut.
I *HOPE* our government has a lot more secret stuff that you and I don't know about. If they don't then we're in deep doo doo..
I don't want to find out about these things in the press.
Moron.
The press - be they liberal or otherwise - are whores. They'll sell themselves to anyone to drive advertising revenue. The reason the press today is so easily pimped out is that in the last 50 years you've had several cases of nosy reporters revealing information, under the guise of "investigative reporting", put out information that did absolutely NOTHING for the general public.
For all the reporters who poke their noses in places to really solve a problem (Stone Philips catching kiddy porn guys, etc) - more power to 'em. However, revealing the domestic and/or foreign intelligence activities of the Fed is totally irresponsible.
What these lefty liberals don't seem to get is that it's better the public DOESN'T know what's going on behind the scenes. I agree with Jenn, improper disclosure of classified information should be considered treason and a few dozen years in Club Fed would clear this whole thing up.
BTW - To all you would-be lefty lawyers - don't get started on constitutional law angles, etc. The only reason these reporters haven't been jailed is the bad publicity.
I dont think most of america and certainly none of the MSM sees the war on terror as a real war. To them there is no singular focal point (a country to be taken) so how can it be a war. They do not understand that the war on terror is the war for western civilization. If we do not win the war on terror western civilization, in anything close to recognizable, will cease to exist. Any religion you want to practice will be fine you will just have to die if it is not Islam.
Zathras,
"I *HOPE* our government has a lot more secret stuff that you and I don't know about."
- Don't worry, we do. 
The NYT wants to have it both ways on this. At first, they said that divulging the existence of this program was a matter of public interest thereby implying that the ‘Times’ was making a revelation to the public about the existence of a program that is possibly harming Americans and furthering the fascistic expansion of government that George W. Bush desires... or something.
And now, the latest talking point coming from the left on this matter is that all terrorists already knew the intimate details of this program and therefore it is not that big a deal.
If the outing of this program is not that big a deal, and everyone already knows about it then; How is that News?
Why pray tell, publish a story that is not news?
Once again however, it is a fool’s errand to attempt to apply logic to the positioning and posturing coming from the left.
Time and time again the stances of the left do not stand up to reasonable analysis. It's almost a joke now. It is this Bush bashing arrogance and emotionally based thinking over logic and reason that further entrenches me in conservatism.
This nonsensical doublespeak defense regarding the NYT's outing of the TFTP is just the latest example in a seemingly endless stream of logic defying hogwash that drives all of those with a brain away from the left side of the aisle.
Jenn,
My rebuttal to your lame argument:
1. I have no interest in democracy? Funny, but anarcho-syndicalism is probably the most democratic system I can think of. It would be nice if you would maybe take the time to understand things before you tear them down. Libertarian Socialism or Left-Wing Marxism is entirely democratic. Would it hurt you to learn the basic facts of political science?
2. I don't choose to call the Japanese anything but Japanese. Dirty slant-eyed bastards was official propaganda spewed by war planners to demonize and dehumanize Japanese people.
3. You and your father should read the following: Shadows of Hiroshima by Wilfred Burchett and Hiroshima in America: Fifty Years of Denial by Robert Jay Lifton and Greg Mitchell. "The official narrative of the atomic bombings downplayed civilian casualties and categorically dismissed reports of the deadly lingering effects of radiation (The Exception to the Rulers by Amy Goodman p. 296).
4. What is a secret from you? Do you remember the MSNBC/FOX report that told you the Marines were going to kidnap the democratically elected president of Haiti, Jean Betrand Aristide? Do you remember getting the memo that the CIA was backing a coup against the democratically elected president of Venezuela? By the looks of this blog, just about everything that's going on is a secret to you. When was the last time you saw a news report explaining the danger of Iraq and Iran selling oil for Euros?
5. I dislike both parties, that doesn't mean I hate this country. Why would anyone like either political party when they consistantly ignore public opinion, erode our liberties, and committ crimes in our name?
6. Are you really that dumb? A factual error occurs when you state something as fact that is in error. If I state that the earth is flat, I have stated a factual error. Was that really too hard for you to grasp? Are you really that dense or were you just kidding? I understand the nuances of anarcho-syndicalism may be too much for your tiny mind to grasp, but surely you can understand what a factual error is.
Just to help you, you misstate what freedom of speech is. You erroneously claim that it's simply the freedom to call Lefties moonbats or something like that. If Freedom of Speech meant nothing more than the freedom to call your neighbor an asshole it wouldn't be worth writing it down.
Jenn, Freedom of speech is the freedom to criticize our government; it is our freedom to stand up to authority and voice our opinion--not about our dipshit neighbor or fellow bloggers--but about those who hold the reigns of power.
Slow down. Read. Breathe. You really may learn something. Leffingwell...really you don't need me pointing out what an ignorant ass you are. Your comments do that just fine. Just be a good boy and shut the fuck up. Thanks.
dave
really you don't need me pointing out what an ignorant ass you are.
Well, if I was truly ignorant, then by definition, I likely would need you to point that out...now wouldn't I, Merriam-Webster? 
So when I asked you "How's that medication for projection coming, dipshit?", I gather from your reply that the answer would be "Not very well, thanks!" Pity...
I have to agree with some of the commenters above. What makes people think that the terrorist organizations don't already know that their resources are being watched? If they didn't think that way, they would be nullified by now.
And, for all the resources that the US has, why has Bin Laden not been captured yet? Wasn't he the primary target of concern in the war against Terrorism?
What makes people think that the terrorist organizations don't already know that their resources are being watched?
Joy, you do know we caught the Bali bomber mastermind because of this supposedly "already known" program, right? Thanks to the Slimes, there likely won't be a repeat catch somewhere else.
Jenn, I think your anger is better directed toward Robert Novak for publishing the name of a covert CIA agent.
"Jenn, I think your anger is better directed toward Robert Novak for publishing the name of a covert CIA agent."
Were the agent covert, Truff, I would concur. However, the agent was not covert. Sorry 'bout that. Have a good Fourth, anyway!
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