This Is Not A Democracy, It's A Republic........
I'm sure ol' Mikey Moore-on is hefting a self-congratulatory doughnut right about now.
While I would love for us to WIN there and a real democratic country come out of this mess (I'm not a cut and runner) I'm getting tired of the continued violence over there.
If these idiots can't manage to grasp that as soon as they take over their own country - we LEAVE - then they're probably also too stupid to run a country! We should slice it up and give the Kurds their own chunk of land. They seem to be the only ones who have gotten their act together and are able to behave civilly.
On the other hand - muzzies killing muzzies does NOT bring a tear to my eye.
I thought muzzies were prohibited from using anything made by "Pork".
The point is, our own people, our own media, are helping them win.
At one point one of the terrorist guys makes some comment about how Mikey "Porkbelly" Moore is a "trusted" American, who speaks the truth. How many poorly educated Iraqi's will believe this? Most.
I thought muzzies were prohibited from using anything made by "Pork".
darwin
I don't care who you are, that there is FUNNY!
Miss Jenn - from what I hear from soldiers, it's really not as bad as the media daily portrays. So I'm hoping in this case it's a matter of believe me or your lying eyes.
Treasonous? Moore would say he's not responsible for how his "product" is used. I say that's bullshit.
Michael Moore is a carbuncle on the underbelly of a gangrene infested tumor residing on Sadam Hussein's left testicle. (Mikey wouldn't reside on the right one just out of general principle.) I think Ben & Jerry's ice cream helped him get that way. His mother must be sooooo proud.
That is sick, isn't it!
Michael Moore should be executed for treason. No judge, no jury. Just take him outside and put two in his head. I'm so sick of his shit.
NOw Laura, we should love everyone...unless they're Jews, American, conservative, or Christian!!
Well guys, I think this is just about as bad as the glorification of the IRA that NORAID and the rest used to whip up with "Irish Americans. Terrorism is terrorism and NORAID was frolicing in the USA raising money by selling "the struggle" to people who somehow didn't understand that the IRA was and is about blowing up families in shopping centers.
Bush finally banned Gerry Adams after the IRA executed a poor catholic sap having a drink in a pub- but only after his sisters made a big stink about it. After the St Patrick's day photo-ops, it was all forgotten- with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness back in the USA the NEXT YEAR raising funds for terrorism.
The best bit is that terrorists have a way of finding each other. A real Irish friend (not some american who'd never even been to Ireland) travelled in the Middle East about 10 years ago and found some of the locals knew galeic. Hummm, do you think that is because of an academic interest in obscure languages?
So while you excoriate MM for playing into the hands of terrorists-I just wanted to flag up that he ain't the only one.
BTW, I am sure our own Voice of America is working over-time with our own propoganda.
"Moore would say he's not responsible for how his "product" is used. I say that's bullshit."
And he would be correct. Gun manufacturers are not responsible for murders and Chemical companies are not responsable for poisneings(properly labled of cocurse) etc...
JAR: "And he would be correct. Gun manufacturers are not responsible for murders and Chemical companies are not responsable for poisneings(properly labled of cocurse) etc..."
The big difference is gun manufacturers and chemical companies don't produce blatant anti-U.S. propaganda.
nope, just guns that people die from...
Sorry guys- all's fair in love and war. Don't get too outta shape when the enemy play dirty.
I don't think we've been winning hearts and minds anyway with some of our own soldier's behaviour which our leadership can't seem to get to grips with.
The trouble is the old line, "it's better to fight them over there rather than another attack on US soil". That argument weakens one home grown islamo-terror plot after another.
If they don't want democracy, and we can't deliver it anyway, it's time to get the fuck outta dodge and take care of the homefront.
"If they don't want democracy, and we can't deliver it anyway, it's time to get the fuck outta dodge and take care of the homefront."
I wish we could but it's more complicated than that. Should Iran gain control of Iraq, next on it's list would be Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. The meetings between Iran and Hugo Chavez haven't been to discuss world soccer. If Iran controlled the middle east oil flow, and Chavez decided to ransom his oil supplies, they could effectively blackmail the west and hold us hostage to their demands.
Venezuela has over 230 billion barrels of oil by most estimates.
I'm not saying we would comply with any demands, but Iran controlling the middle east and oil certainly would put a kink in things. Not to mention Israel would soon be a fading memory after they were all slaughtered.
"nope, just guns that people die from..."
Yeah, unarmed, innocent people who are killed by criminals. Take away guns from law abiding citizens and all you have are armed criminals and defenseless innocents.
Adopting the darwin approach to blog comment:-
"Yeah, unarmed, innocent people who are killed by criminals. Take away guns from law abiding citizens and all you have are armed criminals and defenseless innocents".
I am amazed when I go back home how easy it is to buy automatic rifles etc over the counter. While you and I will no doubt never agree on the constitutional intent of the forefathers on the right to bear arms, the USA is saturated with weapons. I never have the feeling that I'm any safer there because of this. In fact, everytime I read my small town paper- some kid had just shot another. I'm thinking MORE of what is not working isn't the answer.
Speaking of more of what isn't working: I was in my favourite military club the other night. I like going there because they have a great mix of people. Whereas some clubs seem to only attract WWII vets, this club attracts guys in their 20's just starting out in the military, older NCOs, people who've left the military to do other things and retirees. It's a great little oasis from the PC crowd.
Having said that, I heard something quite disturbing whilst I was sipping my pint the other day.
A group of young guys was sat next to me. One had been to Iraq and the others were asking him what it was like. Along with the complaints about inadequacy of kit as described in my posting below, he said:
It's hard...the stuff you see makes you shit your pants
When asked what kind of stuff, he said:
The Americans are mental. You see them beating and raping Iraqis...and you just shit your pants but you're told [by the sergeants] not to interfere or say anything.
So what happens in Iraq stays in Iraq mentality. Marvelous.
When our being in Iraq is causing more harm than good- we've lost sight of Col Tim Collins' words: -
We go to liberate not to conquer...We are entering Iraq to free a people and the only flag which will be flown in that ancient land is their own... Show respect for them...If you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory...Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birthplace of Abraham. Tread lightly there.
and it's time to stop the insanity and get out.
If we left, rather than your scenario, I think these muppets (Iraq v Iran etc) would turn on each other. I'd prefer that.
people also gave the darwin warnings of asian communist domination re vietnam.
My father was in combat there and I think he struggled afterward to see what good any of it did. And after all the carnage and the "peace with honor" pull-out from the "fall" of Saigon, you'll find today's vietnam a little emerging market economy rather than the first domino of communist rule in the asia.
I think our new world order will have the american v islamo fundamentalists- while china just gets on wth it and becomes the premier economic powerhouse. Then, we will REALLY be fucked because there will be no USA constitutional guiding light of freedom to blather on as we can so freely do here.
kris: "I am amazed when I go back home how easy it is to buy automatic rifles etc over the counter."
Automatic weapons are illegal except for military and law enforcement. Until criminals can be prevented from obtaining firearms, passing laws that only target law abiding people means nothing except now they're defenseless.
As far as American troops being mental; I can understand the frustration and rightly taking it out on some scumbag who's been blowing up Iraqis not to mention Americans.
As far as just beating Iraqis and raping ... I'm sorry to hear that if it's true, but I'd have to see more definitive proof that it's an aberration and not just part of the typical percentage of losers you'll find anywhere in society.
People in the military commit crimes, just like civilians do. Hopefully what you overheard was someone who had witnessed that extrmely small percentage of losers who slipped by any screening process. In any event, I agree with you that if we fight, we fight the enemy savagely but noblely. However, the fight must take precedence for us to succeed.
kris: "If we left, rather than your scenario, I think these muppets (Iraq v Iran etc) would turn on each other. I'd prefer that."
Iraq has a shi'a majority. Iran is shi'a (about 89%). The only thing that will happen will be the kurds, sunnis then Israelis will be attacked and killed. Iran is making a play to take power in the Middle East. These people are ruthless, quote from a supposed "holy book" that can be read to justify anything, and will kill each other at the drop of a hat. Don't underestimate what's going on in the world. All the worlds nutcases from Kim jong il, Hugo Chavez to the puppet Syrian government are all confering with Iran.
This is not marxism where although the masses were controlled by the few, the few were sane and could overthrow the government.
Islam can be compared to marxism with one huge difference. Religion. Islam uses religion as it's method of control over the masses and I'm sure you understand how powerful that control is. Anyway, it's certainly not Vietnam except in the way we're fighting it. We can still win, we just have to actually remember what war is and how you win it. If the country was 100% behind this, it would have been over.
I just knew it was going to happen. Propagandists around the world use Moore's and other American radicals' work and words to further their Anti-American cause. Moore himself once admitted to Jay Leno that his work was nothing more than propaganda.
Hell RevJim, they've been doing it for years using the words of such distinguished publications as the NY Times and clips from our very own news networks. Just a little variation from the norm.
BTW, I keep injecting my Michael Moore voodoo doll with cholesterol but no success yet.
Darwin, we have found common ground- if this country gets behind the war we can win it. And that is the question- will we want "it" bad enough to make the required sacrifices to get it....
BTW, Navy Times (US) ran articles in the 10 July 2006 edition spanning two full pages headlined:-
Pimping Alleged At Air Force Base;
Coast Guard Cadet Gets Jail, Ouster From Service In Sex Case; and
Lawmakers Seek More Academy Rape Hearings...
I really wish I could believe that military incidences of rape and sexual harassment of women in the military and civilians was "no more than the rest of society", but that ain't borne out in reality. I wish I could believe it was just a "few bad apples" but it looks systemic to me.
This shit really got going at Tailhook and has gotten worse rather than better. Until military leaders get a grip and understand denial ain't a river in egypt- we are going to lose the "Hearts and Minds" campaign.
You think we have a problem with islam now- let's have a few more Abu Ghraibs and some more rapes of Iraqi women and there will be real hell to pay.
and we'll be wishing that the only bad PR was a dumb assed Michael Moore film to worry about...
kris: "You think we have a problem with islam now- let's have a few more Abu Ghraibs and some more rapes of Iraqi women and there will be real hell to pay."
Discounting the rapes ..... as odd as this sounds, the worse we are with them, the better they understand. It's horrible to say from our persective, but that's apparently the culture of "islam". Vicious, unmerciful, kill, torture maim and voila! ... the enemy and people begin to take you seriously.
I hope you understand I'm not advocating anything of the sort, except with those who wish our soldiers and ionnocent civilians harm. In that case I couldn't care less what they do. This is war, not a tea party as some on the left think.
What I gather is the U.S. is having the "culture" of islam rub off on them. I'm serious. They're there, thay see the way they're treated, how the civilian population is treated by their own and for the most part they're simply "fitting in".
Our men and women definitely don't go over with a mindset that's foreign to us, but like anything, the longer you're exposed to something the more apt you're to adopt it.
I think if you go back and try to find incidents that were supposedly "retaliation" for Abu Ghraib, you'd have a hard time finding any. That stuff barely raised an eyebrow over there.
It was here where all the ruckus was.
Personally from what I've seen and heard (no thanks to the MSM) we've gone too far out of our way to win hearts and minds. I also think the Iraqi people wouldn't care and would love actually if we showed them the military might we really have and use overwhelming force to immediately destroy anything even remotely related to an "insurgent". If they saw power like that, as well as immediate retaliation for any attacks, people would be more apt to turn the insurgents in. The insurgents would also think twice before trying to kill civilians.
Just rambling on. Thanks for listening.
Kris,
I looked at your profile. Aren't you from England?
Writing as if you're an American when in fact you're British is the kind of disingenuous bullshit Michael Moore is famous for. (while we're on the topic of disingenuousness--Kris is a girl's name. Chris is for boys. Sir.)
How many Americans are sick and damn tired of foreigners criticizing us as if they were U.S. citizens? (see Bill Maher, former c*nt-Hole bassist Melissa barf-der-Whore, and other Canucks).
Anybody want to predict how I'm going to hear about "constitutional rights" and what MY constitution guarantees? Let's remind these people that they're on THEIR soil, and as such are not entitled to OUR constitutional rights, simply because they're talking to Americans.
I didn't read all of what you posted because I don't waste my time listening to dissimulators. Not that I missed anything--you didn't have anything new to add, did ya?
Did you?
Fatass, Kris is indeed a female and she lives in England, but is American. Can't say I'm on her tip with a lot of what she is saying at the moment, but sometimes I am.She's got a good head on her shoulders.
To be honest Kris, I have friends in Iraq right now, several, and I don't hear the "rape/pillage" coming from them and believe me, they'd tell me.
I am still inclined to buy the few bad apples theory. From what I hear directly from a few of the horses mouths is that is what it is.
The problem with bad apples is they always turn up.
can I just say- you didn't have all this in the first Gulf War. And it wern't Colin Powell that won that one either- it was Norman Swartzkopf-and the Army needs a guy like him in charge now.
When first elected, Geroge Bush said, "things happen for a reason". I am personally glad that it was him and not Gore who was charged with dealing with 9/11. I also think Bush is on the side of the angels with a vision of a free middle east and a palestinian state.
Unfortunately, some of Bush's advisors are letting him down and are not up to the job. Do you think any of the shit that has happened in the US Army-Iraqi Civilian relations would have happend under Stormin Norman's watch? I don't think so. I don't blame the troops- who are now being asked to do more and more with less and less- I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of Donald Rumsfed and Tommy Franks.
You know what else- it doesn't make it more or less true whether I am american or brit. (I get damned for being both so I'm not going to go cry in my pillow).
This war has come to crunch time and I think there is a possibility it could be won- It won't be won if countries don't listen to and deal with criticism. People have to, so why is any criticism of the way in which this war is being waged considered unpatriotic?
Now, from PC Central HQ London: -
British people returning from their vacation in Spain get on a plane. It is steaming hot and they are all wearing their cabana-wear. Two muslim guys get on the plane wearing layers of heavy coats, sweating buckets, keep checking their watches and talking to each other in Arabic.
Some passengers think something's not quite right with this picture and say they ain't flying a plane with these jokers (remember, we are still at threatcon CRITICAL). The captain apparently agrees and plane takes off with out the two weirdos (terriorists? I don't know- but would you want to hang around and find out?!)
Now, UK government ministers and "Islamic Leaders" are saying that we should trust the government to do their jobs and stop being racist!!!
You think the US has problems? There is no hope for this (UK) fucking country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...and/
5269106.stm
Dear Fatass- BTW, how dare you call me.. a canook!!
And who the hell is "*nt-Hole bassist Melissa barf-der-Whore" anyway??!!!! I'm afraid I haven't heard of this young lady. I am listening to Liam fucking Gallagher at the moment.
Liam f-ing Gallagher. Apt name. Saw Oasis last year, it was a good show.
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