This Is Not A Democracy, It's A Republic........
In his honor, from now on they should now change the name of the penalty in Iraq to "This court has found you guilty and sentences you to be Saddamized until you are dead".
LOL!!!!
Rofl!
The media is going bats. They've got specialist upon specialists. Now they are discussing how "painful" it is. WHO THE FECK CARES!!!!!!!!!! Did he give a shite when he murdered hundreds of thousands.
Done correctly, hanging by the neck is quick and "humane" - I hope they botched it, Lord forgive me.
Buh-bye. 
I know Cary, that's all they're talking about on MSNBC is how cruel it could be.. Karma.... that's what it is, Karma.
Breaks my heart.......Ha!!
Ding dong, the creep is dead!
Check out my tribute to him.
I really don't understand the back-slaps for this. Where does his execution take things? What does it draw a line under? Nothing. So Bush's nemisis is dead. I could give a shit either way. He's not in power- that's all that counts.
And what about us? The "new" regime that's going to show the rest of the middle east how it's done? It's a joke. All we've done, and make no mistake, this is an American led decision, is to show that we will exact our revenge and give Saddam and others a taste of their own medicine. So what's different? Same shit, different day.
And, before anyone kicks off about negative thinking spoiling the war against terror, answer this: - no one has managed to conquer the region (Iraq/Iran) since Alexander the Great. So what makes our attempt any different? Especially when America does not have the will to do what it takes and make the full on commitment to doing the job?
kris,
50 million people dead. 50 MILLION. That was the price the world paid in lives because of the vision of a madman named Adolf. Because no one acted in time. Saddam had a vision. The Saudis recognized it when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Left unchecked, Saddam would have had no qualms taking over the entire Middle East. He didn't care who got in the way. To date we have uncovered the mass graves of over 400,000 people in his own country and we still haven't scratched the surface. There are still over 2 million people un accounted for. You're answer?....We stopped him after the 'first Gulf War',???, Contained him ??? Puleeez!! Sectarian violence is one thing. The Sunnis and Shiites have been killing each other for over 1400 years. We didn't start that fight. We are just a convenient excuse for the current fighting because we stepped in and removed a madman from power. The balance of power in Iraq has shifted, the Sunni's are pissed and want it back and the shiites see their chance and want revenge. I can't stand either of them. But to somehow blame the US for their centuries old war is a product of spending too much time watching CNN. Take a few minutes and think about where the region would be if we were to have adopted a 1938 style Chamberlein approach to Saddam's aggression. Hand's off, it's not our fight. Let's for a moment pretend we didn't go back in the second time. Would our pilots still be shot at enforcing a no fly zone while Saddam continued his policy of unchecked genocide within his borders. If Hitler had lived and had signed an armistice, do you think we would have let him shoot at our pilots for 10 years without consequence? WMD's? Didn't find any? Of course we did. Just not in the quantity that would satisfy the media. It was a stupid, stupid move to justify the second go round with Iraq based on WMD's because the FACT remains, we DIDN"T NEED any more justification than what we had to begin with. He was STILL shooting at us and playing a game of chicken which HE instigated and inevitably lost. He had EVERY opportunity to conform, reform and rejoin the world community but instead he chose to remain defiant even up to the last breath he took on this earth. In your wildest dreams do you think for a moment time would have mellowed the man? His followers continue to instill fear in Iraq but maybe today, just maybe, a few of them will begin to quesion their own mortality. Is it over? Of course not. Only in the movies it would be over, that is, until the sequel was released. We can't turn the war we are engaged in on and off like some kind of hollywood movie on our DVD players. We can't hit pause. In my opinion we are in a fight for our life and Saddams execution was but one small victory in that fight. We cannot and must not turn a blind eye to the lunatic dictators of the world unless we want to allow ourselves to sacrifice another 50 million people by letting events spin so far out of conrol that it is our only option
Billy mate, nobody said Saddam was a misunderstood guy. My point, which you have ignored is, where does the execution take us?
Here is the latest from the execution: "As a noose was tightened around Hussein's neck, one of the executioners yelled "long live Muqtada al-Sadr," Haddad said, referring to the powerful anti-American Shiite religious leader".
Fan-fucking-tastic! So much for the impartial "rule of law".
Bush has called the execution a "milestone".
It's just another tombstone.
The other point I think you've missed somewhere along the line, what makes our adventure in Iraq any different than the Russian's? Why do you think they did not want to be involved in the "coalition of the willing"? Because they didn't need their asses kicked in Iraq twice.
Please don't talk to me about Neville Fucking Chamberlain. Contrary to Donald Rumsfeld's view, this ain't Germany in WWII.
What we are dealing with was not Germany 1945 but Germany in 1648 emerging from the feudal bloodbath of the 30 years war.
Or Yugoslavia in the 1990s.
All this media coverage and crowing is a waste of our fucking time and people should wake up to the fact that doing more of the same in Iraq is going to get us more of the same of what we've already got.
kris,
My post to you was not complete. For some reason about a third of it was al that was posted. So, I'll try to round out the rest of it for you as best I can. First, let me address you're question of the difference between our adventure in Iraq as opposed to the Russians. I assume that you are referring to THEIR adventure into Afghanistan? If so, you're kidding, right? If you're not kidding, read a book, then get back with me. But to your question as to where this leaves us now and you're inability to see any reason for backslapping. Hopefully, it takes us just one more small step closer to peace. Don't misunderstand me, I have no illusions that we've even begun to turn the corner. On the contrary, I see years if not decades in this war. Especially with the disproportionate lack of help from impotant "Freinds" in Europe who seem to be able to do nothing but cricize the US until some foriegn leader's troops are eating Croissants in Paris. There is no question, none, nada, in my mind that left unchecked, Saddam would have become a much bigger problem. He's dead now. His followers still are a problem and will continue to be. Let me ask you a question kris. What do you thik the next step should be? We've got another maniacal madman in Iran today. Do you see Ahmadinejad as a threat to your freedom to post on this blog today? When will you, and at that point, how many lives will it have cost? Do you think WE started the fight with Iran? (Even if you do, please don't admit it, I'll be unable to finish reading you're response). In closing, it is unseasonably warm here in Michigan this December 30th. My neighbor is doing yard work. The furthest thing from his mind is the execution of Saddam. There is a good reason for that. 3000 people died on September 11th,2001. Another 3000 have died in this fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. In no way do I intend to trivialize those numbers, as I pray for each of their souls. But from a historic perspective their sacrifice for our freedom to do our yard work and blog on the internet pales in comparison to the lives lost to get us where we are today. To quote a cliche, "Freedom isn't free". It doesn't just happen because their are those that simply hate you and me kris. So if you are still unclear as to why the backslapping is taking place, no worries, but please do me a favor. The next time you see one of our service personnel. Give em a slap on the back, just for me. Because kris,I am thankfull for every little victory and every little battle they fight for my freedom.
Billy, Conciseness is a virtue.
But let me ask you a question: How many fronts do you think the US can fight at the same time?
You've got to box clever. We ain't being clever.
Speaking of freedom isn't free- I've done my time in military service. I'd like to see every other fucker in America do the same. Bring back the draft and go whole hog on this war.
Oh no! you cry. (Maybe not you but certain "conservatives") it goes against "individual liberty". Tough fucking shit. It's the price of citizenship. And it kills two birds with one stone. You top up Army with bods and you cut fuckers coming over the border wanting to be Americans.
BTW, Boxing clever for me means that I would have tried to split the Muslims from their leaders- not driving them into each others' arms.
My solution would have been a post 9-11 Marshall Plan for the region. Uncle Sam the one everyone wants to turn to.
I would have done a Bush Sr and built a genuine coliation al la Gulf War 1.
I would have asked for Rumsfeld's resignation as soon as Abu Ghraib hit the press.
End of.
kris,
Ireally don't think that it is a question of how many fronts CAN the US fight in this war, it's more a question how many do we HAVE TO. For being the 'only Superpower left' we sure seem to be having a dilly of a time trying to contain violence in a country that we've already defeated...twice. Our deployment in Afghanistan is marginal. So what then is it that allows us the title of Superpower? I don't think the problem really lies with resources, human or material, it lies with commitment. We are a nation of instant gratification. We also seem to bring the attitude that after a brawl, it somehow is our responsibility to rebuild our enemies. We need to stop the pauses in the swing of "Our Terrible Swift Sword". Continuing to have faith that somehow our enemies are sincere when they show a glimmer of capitulation just because they see the battle going the wrong way on any given day just doesn't work. I want to hear someone cry uncle besides CNN. We have the ability AND the resources to do that, as it stands now. That is unless we afford our enemies the breathing room to regroup.
Oh look another deranged rightwingnut. Go back to masterbating with your gwb doll.
Saddam,
a man above most men... well, about 3 inches more now than before 
Troll: How and when I masterbate is nunya. So, piss off.
LOL Gawfer. Love the bike!!!!
Kris, I'm with Billy on this one. Though I am one of few who felt we should have finished this back during the first Gulf War.
You said:"All this media coverage and crowing is a waste of our fucking time and people should wake up to the fact that doing more of the same in Iraq is going to get us more of the same of what we've already got."
Yes, the media coverage, while understandable to a certain level, is out of control. But seeing as we've set ourselves up as a paper tiger over there, it was "nice" to have some follow though. The ACLU couldn't buy him anymore Dorritos and poetry.
I'm curious, you seem to strongly feel that what we are doing over there right now is not effective, I agree.... so what would you suggest?
Jenn,
Thanks for your support on this post. Like you, I am of the opinion that we should have finished this the first go round. Further, I am also of the opinion that we shouldn't have allowed ourselves to be bitch slapped in 79. I believe that had we taken an aggressive posture after the takeover of the embassy in Tehran, history would have been quite different and our stature in the world today would be much higher than it is right now. Missed opportunities, hindsight and all that crap. That being said, what is the answer? kris is right in that what we are doing isn't working....to a point. It just isn't working as well as it could be. Obviously, having served in the military, kris cares, and I thank and commend him for his service. But kris's Marshall plan solution, in my opinion isn't the answer.In reality, isn't that what we are attempting to do in Iraq right now? Aren't we trying to follow the post WWII model? Are we trying to build a SAND CURTAIN that will drain our resources for the next fifty years? When the President of the United States says to the world "You are either with us or your with the terrorists", should that be a hollow statement or should we as a nation, stand behind that until we win. I am the furthest thing from a right wing nut than you can possibly imagine but Goddammit WE have a noble goal. We didn't fly airplanes into Mecca. We don't behead those who draw cartoons that somehow disparriage our individual ideals. WE seem to be categorized in the world as war mongers because we are one of the only societies left that has the balls to take a stand. If anything, we need to grow more balls. I hate war. I hate conflict. It, as kris says is a waste of time. It is unproductive .......but.....it is a neccesary evil to preserve the strides this nation has taken in the last 250 years and to assure that we continue to promote basic human rights throughout the world for years to come. We may have some self centered interests and there are those that will find fault in our intentions, but on balance, we ARE, in my opinion fighting the good fight..... That's all I have to say about that.......Forrest
Kris by the way is a woman.. just an FYI.
I agree with you Billy. I also agree with Kris that we are not doing it right. Had we gone in, and shocked and awed,really hammered the hell out of them, shown our might, in fact, I beleive there would actually be less casualties than now. The Cindy Sheehans within made sure we failed.
It's very frustrating to sit here playing John Madden. We're not there, and we have no ACTUAL control. First thing I'd so is lay waste to Sadr City. Then tell every other insurgent filled hell hole they have 12 hours to spit out the rubbish or we're coming in.
I see that at this point as the only way.
Our military is neutered now. Too many here in American and worldwide see "innocent civilians" dying. I see a foe who hides among children and shoots at soldiers, then drop their guns and cry rat. We're not dealing with honor. We're not dealing with a clear foe, we're fighting an unwanted holy war and that is a war with ISLAM. Period.
Every day that goes by with the supposed "moderate" Muslims worldwide wrapping themselves in their cloaks of silence, my ability to seperate them from those who would gladly seperate me from my head shrinks.
Life...is like a box of choclates....
Life.... is like a box of chocolates...every once in awhile you get one with a tough nut to crack.
P.S. Just read your email, and your very, very welcome my friend.
kris,
It has been brought to my attention that you are a woman. That in and of itself is not a bad thing, some of my best friends are women. In fact, now that I think about it, other than two ex wives, I never met a girl I didn't like, (other than the girl in the plumbing department at LOWES the other day, but that's a long story) So, I would like to apologize for the 'balls' analogy. Having been in the military, I'm sure (hope) it wasn't offensive, but in order to cover my buttocks, and respect your gender, ....sorry. AND,... AND,...(I've learned this) ...You're right.(I told you I was married twice!)
BTW.....JAWA has the neck snap video
This war has descended into a sectarian struggle for power- and we are caught in the middle of it. Again, think Yugoslavia- not the Nazis and you will get the picture.
Wotever, you STILL haven't answered my question from 5 posts ago.
I used to agree with Jenn about the silent, moderate Muslims- why the fuck don't they stand up and say SOMETHING.
Then this Rosie O'Donnel shit kicked off and I realised: I am not responsible for the crap that flows from Rosie's mouth, and I'd get pretty fucking tired going on blogs, the press etc telling the world most lesbians aren't as mental or stupid as she is. I've just got to get on and live my life. I suspect that's how most muslims feel.
kris,
I guess I'm unclear as to what question you asked that you believe I haven't answered. If it is 'where does this execution leave us today?', then you will need to re read my replies because I believe I have answered that several times over. Also, my reference to the Nazis and WWII should not be pigeon holed to refer exclusively toward Saddam or Iraq, in fact that is NOT how I intended it. It certainly has much more to do with the way we are headed with Iran, and by extension radical Islam. If you can't see the parralells there, I can't help you. Also, , you keep referring to Yugoslavia as being some type of rossetta stone for me to 'understand' what we are in the middle of. How in blue blazes do you come up with that? It is my silly opinion that we are in this mess because since 1979 we have been continually attacked by a large segment of the Muslim world who seem to think that helping them build infrastructure and bringing them out of the dark ages is a deliberate US attack on Islam. They WANT to turn back the clock 1400 years. Great Ceaser's ghost kris, are you really of the misguided opinion that the only reason we are fighting is to line the pockets of Halliburton and Cheney? You're not one of those are you? Your comments about Rumsfeld and Abu Ghrab are giving me the impression that you are. Mistakes have been made, I'll give you that, but it is the continued drone of those who do nothing but highlight the mistakes that bog down the successful prosecution of this war. As a side note, Halliburton has been around in one form or another since the early 1900's. In fact they were a large part of our effort in Viet Nam, building infrastructure, airstrips etc. etc. Halliburton, though often plauged by corruption as many (most) large corporations are, is involved not just because they have connections, but because they are the most qualified to do the job. They have the resources and the experience to accomplish the tasks. In fact, Halliburton wins contracts through an open bid proccess that may surprise you. They secure well over 90 percent of the OPEN BID contracts with the government. Now if the underying pea on the mattress for you is that this is all about oil, I have to disagree. It is about oil to a point, but it is more about protecting our investments and our security. Face it, if it weren't for us the only thing the Arab world would be doing with oil today is slipping on it. Our investments in the region have brought them the opportunity to advance their countries and their peoples futures. It is they who continually squander that chance. There are those in the Arab world who keep the riches from oil to themselves while there own people starve. There should be no poverty over there with the resources they have, but that is NOT our fight. Our fight is for the survival of our ideals and our freedom, oil is intrinsically and inextricably tied to that and that just is a fact of life at the moment.
So kris, what really is
To finish the question kris, what really is it that bugs you ???
Only one word...... Finally!
Belated Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year to ya Jenn ... Give em hell!
Just one question, When did Kris become a women? ialways thought.....?
Oh' lordy only teaseing Kris...
Oh and this for Mud kitty, Kris figured out how to call not only once but twice into Jenns radio show, and i must say, MK shes very smart, and well talks as much as Jen and would not let me end my show!!!
hahahahahaha
Also, MK she called a 1am from the UK. And you live right up the road.....
Saddam is dead, haroo, harrah . . . man, it must be gettin' crowded in Hell!
That's right, I am at my computer two days after surgery, and man is my wife pissed - - - gotta go back to bed. Visit Defender of the Blahs for a peak at chapter two (Jenn knows what I mean)
Gibbs my friend, I TOLD YOU!!!! that you would be fine! I'm so glad. So very good to hear from you!
ABF, you too, merdry everything, and a happy new year!
Kris, you can't compare Rosie and her idiocy and the "moderate" muslims. As much as I loathe Rosie, and every single lesbian I know does as well (including my best friend and her girlfirend),last time I checked, her "religion" was used as an excuse to kill and maim, and blow up half the world.
Common sense dictates there. I look at my friend and know she's nothing like Rosie, you as well are nothing like her. You don't have to say a damn thing.
But, the "moderate" muzzies, just curious, were they the same ones partying in the streets of Bahgdad on 9/11, throwing candy in the air, firing guns and screaming wha,la,la,la,la,la,la? I mean, those are the same people we now call "innocent civilians".
There is no comparison. And the very few and far between "moderates" don't say much and when they do it is very, let's say, guarded. Makes me thing the number of actual "moderates" in on a much smaller scale then most Americans like to beleive in their little fantasy world.
Dear Jenn
PC Bitseach thinks the same as you re the Rosie Moderate Muslim analogy.
As for Billy, conciseness remains a virtue....
But I've been thinking of you billy and you remind me a bit of Steve Ramos before he went to Iraq. He says himself that he was a bit naive and that the situation there was much more complicated than he thought.
That's my only point. It is more than just the good guys v bad guys.
You see Islam as the problem- but the USA will not be able to carpet bomb Islam out of Iraq or the Middle East.
But what bugs me? I don't mind Saddam is dead. I mind that it was a lynching more than a carrying out of the rule of law. It was a dispensation of rough justice.
The grand plan was that we bring democracy to the middle east and save the Iraquis. As Steve Ramos will tell you, Iraq has descended into sectarian civil war- and that lynching, with the executioners chanting opposition sect slogans proves that.
Perhaps Muslims in that region cannot handle "democracy" anyway. Perhaps they will always need an imam telling them what to do. I mention Yugoslavia because it looks like alot of Americans need to learn that what happened there after Tito is being played out in Iraq post-Saddam.
Steve Ramos will also tell you that Americans see things black or white. We would die for our friends and help anyone out. We also believe anything is possible.
Most other people in the world will be your friend and help as long as it is convenient. What I am saying is stop crying about our european friends not helping us out. They think we're onto a loser in Iraq and aren't going to get involved any further.
So, that leaves the US having to deal alone. If we coud just accept that we there are limits to what we can achieve militarily, we might start operating like the rest of the world and trying other approaches. The old "with us or against us" rhetoric does not assist in that approach. Everyone hates Bush so much that it will take a change of leader here before things change in Iraq.
This is what conservatives in the USA's best friend's country think.
If this is what your friends think...
kris,
Happy New year. And, a happy New Year to Jenn and everyone out there who is part of this blog. kris, we obviously look at the world through different prisms. You don't see this war as being one of good vs. evil. I do. Apparently you don't see Islam as being the problem. I do. You believe there are limits as to what can be accomplished with our military I don't. You believe that we should start operating like the rest of the world. I don't. You believe that Iraq is in the midst of a civil war, I don't. Finally, you think that Americans only see things in Black or White. I don't think they do that enough. I may get myself in trouble here But there is a politician out there who I have alot of resect for. Newt Gingrich. The reason I say that is that is because beyond the sound bites, beyond the spin, if you have ever sat and listened to the man on point from start to finish at a breakfast meeting or any type of question and answer venue, the quality that is apparent is his ability to cut through the clutter, reduce complicated issues to the lowest common denomenator to a point where they can be dealt with, and propose solutions to colorful problems in black and white. We have a habit of overcomplicating issues in this country. It has gone well beyond a cottage industry of spin. It is the reason for the existence of the MSM. I have no desire to see this country start acting like England or France or Spain or Germany or any other country other than the ideals this country was founded on. I believe that if we, as Americans set limits, we limit ourselves, I believe that sometimes the only way to solve complicated problems is to deal with them in black and white. I believe civil wars are fought between two armed populations within a country not cowardly hit squads that leave car bombs or machine gun innocents on busses on their way to work. When I was a kid growing up in Brooklyn, bodies were turning up everywhere. Back then we called them mob wars. I think that the violence in Iraq is far greater than that but I also believe it is more akin to that than a true civil war. I believe Islam is a problem, a serious one. It, by design threatens the fabric of my ideals and freedoms, and yours whether you choose to believe that or not. There is no other 'religion' that I am aware of that will threaten you with death simply for exercising your freedom of speech to be critical of it. Finally, my New Years resolution ? To be content with my conciousness and naitivity.
kris,
By the way, the fact we disagree is OK. That's what this country is about. Based on what you and I have written, the only one who stands to be beheaded here is me. So again, Happy New Year
ok, so how are you going to do it?
Roll it out and let's hear it- because more of the same ain't working.
we've heard your ideas, et's hear your solution. One based in reality would be nice.
kris,
That was naivety,,,,not naitivity..sorry, every once in awhile the Brooklyn slips out. Solutions?, I have some ideas and I will be glad to share them if you and the rest of the readers of this blog aren't bored with this dialogue that you and I are having. But you'll have to indulge me. I have a friend who has a flat tire who has asked me to help her so I need to tend to that right now. Also Michigan vs.USC is on later so I will be indisposed for that. However, this afternoon I should be able to find some time to solve the worlds problems so if you would allow me, I will post later. However, I will leave you with a hint. It starts with Korea, and if you are thinking that somehow I am proposing nuking them, then you walking down the wrong path.
I know it will come as a huge shock to dto, but I know how to use the phone, even during this busy time of the year.
I just want to be wanted. Is that so wrong? You were the one who told me NEVER TO CALL, dto. I'm not your puppet. I'm not your toy. If you want to me to call in, at least be gracious about it. I'll be happy to call in as long as it doesn't conflict with my schedule. But seeing as how you have sooooo much contempt, for me, and for everything I stand for...and even at that, I'm willing to call in.
"But seeing as how you have sooooo much contempt, for me, and for everything I stand for...and even at that, I'm willing to call in."
Nobody has contempt for you kitty, it's what you represent that's so distasteful. You represent a segment of society and a philosophy that wishes to destroy what has made America what it is today. That ... literally makes my skin crawl and ooze with contempt and disgust. I'm sure you're a lovely person and truly believe that taking 40-50% of my paycheck is a wonderful thing. I despise what you stand for but don't hold it against you personally. I have every hope that one day you'll understand what "freedom" really means and what you desire only nips away at that freedom little by little until it's gone.
kris,
Solutions..... First, let me qualify my remarks by saying I am a humble carpenter so you will not see or hear my ideas at the UN anytime soon. That being said, I respect Bush. I think that he is sincere in his beliefs but he can't see the forest for the trees. He certainly has a difficult time acting Presidential. Even when he speaks about subjects that demand a serious demeanor, he can't get away from that stupid smirk he does. Just once I'd like to see Cher step up to the podium, give him a good smack accross the face and tell him to "Snap out of it". So, now that I've established that we may not have the best orator to convey a viable PLAN to the American people, let's move on. What are we doing in Iraq. Treading water, that's what we're doing. What are we doing in South Korea? For the love of God I have no idea. I've asked that question for YEARS and still haven't heard a resonable explanation, which, by the way is one topic I tend to part ways with Gingrich.
What are we going to do about Iran? AND, wasn't there something else? Oh yeah, that bin Laden guy !! Iraq? We don't have enough troops to win. That's WIN, not maintain. The Dems plan is to withdraw to an "Over the Horizon Deployment". I have an 'over the horizon' deployment idea of my own. Pull our troops from over the horizon in South Korea and put them in Iraq. Every last one of them. That's where we fighting a WAR. Who are we fighting in Korea? We've been there for sixty years! Do you think for one split second that if we were to pull troops out of South Korea the North would invade? All Kim Jong Il is is a sbre rattling little maniacal punk with a starving army.....I'll continue this in a minute........
Billy, please feel free to tell us all what you think, I'd love to hear some kind of ideas, maybe if we strat throwing enough good ones out there, someone will listen. I am enjoying this exchange between you and K a lot.
Well said Darwin.
Lord Kitty you are so needy. I for one will not even come close to begging you to call. If you'd like to call, then fine. We love callers. And it would be nice if you'd call, we don't get many from "the other side" calling in, though we did feature Steve Ramos, a Democrat, for over 2 shows. If you don't, that's fine too.
Frankly, I'd love to have Billy or Darwin call in. Them... I may beg.
Look, I was told, by dto, NEVER TO CALL and that the operator was specifically told not to take my call, AFTER, having been invited to call. Don't put this onus on me. I'm not asking anyone to beg for anything. I always said I would love to call.
kris,
Do you think China would allow N. Korea to invade the south??? China today is a far different country than when we drew the line in the kim shee. They can't afford to alienate us. Imagine what ramifications that would have on their booming economy. No, I say get the hell out of Korea, let the Chinese take stewardship of the North if they like with our blessing and utilize the miltary resources where they can do the most good. Japan and Austraila can assume larger rolls in 'defending' the south. Beef up our forces in Iraq with the troops from Korea. Put them ON THE BORDER with Iran. Move a few more carrier groups into the Persian gulf. Have the Iraqi goverment arrest Muqata al Sadr and give him a fair trial. (personally I think he should be shot) Arresting al Sadr though would say to the world that the government of Iraq will not tolerate sectarian violence be it Sunni, as with Saddam or al Sadr's shiite militia. Further it would send a message to Iran that the Iraq intends to remain an independent sovreign state and will not be influenced by Iranian backed and financed militias. The Iranians are chomping at the bit to get their hands on Iraq and it is my belief that if we were to leave, the terrorists taking over Iraq would be the least of our worries. The Iranians want it and are growing stronger with each passing day. If we are content with spending sixty years in someone elses country, let's spend it in one that will protect our interests for years to come. ....What, we'll piss off the Arab World???? Will they be as pissed as when they shot the Israeli Olympic team. Will they be as pissed as when they took our hostages, bombed our marines in Beirut, bombed our embassies, attacked the Cole, Blew up Kobar towers, killed our troopsin Somalia who went there on a humanitarian mission. Will they be as pissed as when we went in in 92. Or will they be as pissed as when we went back in, or will they be as pissed as when they hung Saddam,or will they be as pissed as when the Danes draw cartoons about mohammad. What is the limit of their pissedness.? Winning in Iraq and containing Iran comes down to will. We have the resources.......Next up, Afghanistan, be back shortly.....
kris,
Afghanistan...Hey, Pakistan old buddy old pal....Buck up.!!Allow our troops to eliminate the cross border incursions by Al Queda and the Taliban or, we will cut off ALL aid and and be spending a little more time enjoying Indian cuisine. If Bin Laden is hiding in you're supposed autonomous region of Northwest Pakistan, get him or we will. Period. Increase our troop strength in Afghanistan. US troops on the Iraqi/Iranian border and US troops on the Afghani/Iranian border coupled with a few carrier groups in the Gulf sould give Mr. Ahmadinejad pause, don't you think? Have we EVER won anything at a bargaining table negotiating from a position of weakness? Do we want a negotiated settlement with Iran or are we content with putting off an inevitable shooting war. When do we want to fight that one? After The Iranians have Nukes? Remember, WE didn't start this fight, but we are in it and MUST win. We need a leader. One who can articulate our goals to the world beyond some intangible vision of freedom. We need
a leader who exudes confidence and the determination that the US will not be intimidated. We need a leader who can reduce the complex problems of the world to the lowest common denomenator and convey them in black and white the gravity of the situation we're in. We need a press corps that refrains from delivering a barrage of defeatism on the American people and begins to tell the whole truth. When I woke this morning, this first day of 2007, ABC news was doing a piece on...get this..."The disproportionate amount of casualties in Iraq compared to fatalities than in previous wars" I listened very carefully and not once was there any mention that the reason for that was our improved abilities to SAVE more lives of those that are wounded!!!! It was a perfect example of taking a positive and casting it in the worst possible light for a headline. I don't know how you stop that. There's a thing called the Constitution that would get in the way. But an effort must be made to bring to light the blatant self serving reporting that is being done in this country. THAT is costing lives....... I'm done blathering... I'm sure that there is much here that you'll probably disagree with and as I said earlier, that's fine. I think we are in agreement that we want the same outcome. It's just a question of the most efficient way to get there. I realize that this is a little over simplistic and none of this can be accomplished without quality people to sort through all the nuances and perform the work arounds. But I believe we CAN win. CAN'T simply isn't an option.
I agree with and at one time or another have said most of what you said, except, Sadr, I think we just kill him, screw the trial, but that's just me, some say I lack subltey.
Do me a favor, copy and paste your coments on word, and send it to: prez'sspeachwriter@whitehouse.gov.
That ought to do the trick. They just need our help.
The problem we have is, you have pretty much summed it up, but they'll need 4 more 9/11's, some handwringing, some hemming, some hawing and a few more decades of pandering, before they come to that conclusion, and by then, I fear it will be far, far too late.
Jenn,
As I said, I'm just a humble carpenter so I don't anticipate any of my ideas getting traction. What is amazing to me is that I am not hearing much from the people charged with our security on either side of the ailse that isn't self serving rhetoric. However, the left is certainly far more dangerous at their lack of creative substance. I must go for now. I just finished watching the Michigan/USC game and I've noticed my wrists are bleeding again. I thought I had stopped it but I guess my attempt at suicide was more serious than my original assessment. Oh, also, do you think copying and pasting my comments will actually work or do you think that I should just send a cloth picture book(so they don't accidentally tear the pages) and a couple of sippy cups?
The best way forward is to first consider your objectives:
If your objective is to erdicate Islam from Iraq or the Middle East, be advised the experiment was tried before in Nazi Germany. Don't expect Europe to sign up for round two.
If your objective is to "bring democracy to Iraq or the middle-east", bear in mind that the concept of "law" in the middle-east is different to our idea of the "rule of law". That is why we are witnessing sectarian factions. Law is from the ground up there rather than from the top down like we are used to.
If your objective is to "get the terrorists", be advised Russia tried the same thing in Afganistan and failed.
In all of the three scenarios, military might alone has failed.
I don't understand your dogged refusal to even consider trying to understand and then outsmart your enemy.
Finally, don't fucking wimp out of your argument by "but I'm only a humble carpenter". If you've got a view, fight your corner.
I swabed the deck most of my naval career. I went to university here and took a class called "ethnic minorities and the law". Every time I open my trap in that course, an "ethnic minority" would tell me that I was talking shite. I complained to the teacher who told me to do my homework and to toughen up. I did and guess what, they shut the fuck up- because they hadn't done their home work- they were just talking out their ass.
So the moral of the story: do your homework.
As for Kitty. Grow some and get back to us. You too are wimping out. We have an old saying where I come from: shit or get off the pot.
kris,
Why am I reminded of an old Saturday Night Live skit in which Dan Akroyd turns to Jane Curtain on weekend update and says "Jane you ignorant slut". kris, out of everything I've written here, you're critical of "I'm a humble carptenter", "The Russians coudn't do it", "If I want to bring Democracy to Iraq", and "If I'm trying to eradicate Islam from the Middle East and Iraq".........Do MY homework?????????? Note: The Russians failed at everything but repelling Hitler, and they needed the Allies help to do that! Note: The last time I checked there were free and verifiable elections in Iraq, the first step to a democracy. Note: I never said anything about ERADICATING Islam from Iraq or the Mid East, although it would be nice if we could accomplish that in Dearborn Michigan, Minnesota, and seats 4 and 5 b on our domestic flights. You asked for solutions. By your silence, am I to assume that you agree with the premise of using China, Pakistan, India, Japan, Australia, Afghanistan, and our troops in south Korea in a fresh approach to a solution as I outlined, or are you back to not doing you're homework. What, kris, is you're solution beyond the vague scenario of boxing clever. What do you mean when you say seperate the muslims from their leaders, not drive them together? Isn't that what we did with Saddam? Isn't that the reason an Iraqi candidate finally didn't win an election by 100% of the vote? Did I or did I not suggest arresting al Sadr, (though I know Jenn disagrees with me on that one)Aren't Bin Laden and Zawahiri reduced to spending time with their followers via video tape compliments of al Jezeera? Hasn't Zarqouwi assumed room temperature along with Saddam, Uday, and Kusay? Aren't Tariq Aziz and Chemical Ali awaiting trial right now wondering if they are to suffer the same fate? How do you propose seperating their leaders? In a corner with some quiet time? kris, you can do better than this. If you've done your homework, please share it with us so that we may cheat off you and be able to turn our papers in to the teacher. No kris, I don't think it's me who's wimping out here.
Billy mate, you were doing marginally well up until you called me an ignorant slut. Tsk, Tsk.
My invitation to you to do your homework was in light of your playing the "I'm a humble carpenter card".
I continue to encourage you to do your homework- or to at least read what I have gone, at some length, to explain before.
I have attempted to simplify matters and to take an approach, unlike the President's, where one identifies one's objectives first, then formulates a plan to achieve those objectives.
This has flown right over your head.
I did not suggest that you want all muslims eradicated- on closer examination of what I have written, you will see that is one of several objectives from which you can choose. Come up with onother if you like.
The point is- nail your colors to your mast and explicitly say what your objective in Iraq is. Simple as that.
When you do, then you can formulate your approach for achieving that objective.
My objective after 9-11 would have been to get rid of the terrorist training camps while at the same time initiating a Marshall Plan across the Middle East in general. This would have been done in tandem with the Road Map with a view to a separate palestinian state.
We largely got rid of the taliban in Afganistan. We could have had a Katrina sized aid effort to Afganistan afterwards. That is how you drive a wedge between the taliban and the people.
Who would they be getting a better deal from? Uncle sugar daddy Sam or the "freedom fighters".
Treating everyone as the enemy obviously makes people think the taliban have a point.
If you still struggle to see that, consider an invading force coming to the USA to "liberate" us. Unless they have something sweeter than what we've already got- they are our enemy-simple as that.
The Roadmap been forgotten by Bush (as soon as Powell resigned) and it's all gone tits up from there.
And the reason why it's gone tits up? Because we have lost the objective. Bush and Rumsfeld never counted on having to do much after Shock & Awe. Tsk, tsk: they didn't do their homework either.
My original point in posting was to shake my head at yet another way in which this war has been mishandled. They couldn't even get Saddam's execution right.
This is what the Deputy Prime Minister of your strongest ally thinks
here.
if all of this continues to mystify you, all I can suggest is to learn to play chess and read The Prince and the Art of War.
"Doning your homework is not rocket science- it's called being prepared.
Norman Swartzkopf has preparation down to a science. Read his biography and you will se for yourself how HE did it- and how he had to fight Colin Powell for proper support for the troops. Which yes men in Gulf War part deux were acting as the troop's advocate? Nada- no one.
Onther great one for preparation is the leader of the western world, Roy Keane. Seriously, he studies the other teams' playbooks as well as honing his own skills.
The one Americanism I had to get rid of was this crap that my generation grew up with- which is you can bluff your way through. Do the least amount of effort to get a result. GWB is an ultimate bluffer. He'll tell you himself he never applied himself to his studies. We liked him because you can picture yourself having a beer (back in the day) with him.
Being a great guy simply isn't enough qualification to be president during a time of war. Next time, I'll be voting for the OVER-achiever..
"Being a great guy simply isn't enough qualification to be president during a time of war. Next time, I'll be voting for the OVER-achiever.."
The problem is ... you can be the most qualified guy as well as having done all your homework, but if you have enemies at home who do their best to disrupt your plans, disrupt the will of the people and are generally willing to side with the enemy at every turn ... shit will go bad no matter what you do.
I blame Bush for not speaking up and confronting these treasonous bastards publically and for not aggressively pursuing media that release classified info and who intentionally print or air information designed specifically to hinder our war efforts.
kris,
...."get rid of the terrorist training camps while at the same time initiating a Marshall plan over the entire mid East in general. This would have been done in tandem with the Road map with a view to a seperate palestinian state"....How do you come up with this stuff? Do you sit in front of CNN and memorize whatever Alzheimers afllicted ex General they have on the Situation room says?
Again,..... no response on our troops in S. Korea, re involving China, Japan, Australia, Pakistan,India and Afghanistan? And again, no solution. Just a constant whine of what we didn't do.
Upon re reading the posts you and I have written here I came accross a statement I made that, in retrospect is obviously quite innaccurate. I had said that you and I look at the world through different prisms. I was wrong. You're on another planet. That's OK, it's my own fault for attempting an interplanetary intervention. I thought for a second I may be able to enlighten you as to the reason, as you had questioned, for the backslapping after Saddams hanging. After much debate, I am now convinced that you're really not upset with the backslapping after all. You're upset that we haven't GIVEN away enough free prizes for chanting "Death to America". You love cute mission names and you're ticked because we lost the "Roadmap" and haven't even considered calling anything "The Marshall Plan". Would it help if I were to have packaged my ideas on the region and called it "Billy's Common Sense Doctrine", or should I be resigned to limiting my dialogue with you to "Hey how bout dem Mets". By the way, the 'ignorant slut' comment was intended as a joke and I thought I may get a chuckle out of you. Sorry if it went over your head. Oh and once again, the objective?????....To win.
Oh for fuck's sakes!
You've hit your intellectual buffers and now resorting to a slanging match.
If your objective is to win- what is it you want to win? The trouble is you don't know what the fuck it is that you want. I've asked you about 25 times now and you still can't say it. What will "winning" in Iraq mean to you? Peace, love and harmony with one leader? The country being split up along sectarian lines? A puppet leader that will eventually go off the rails al la Saddam?
As for South Korea- I'd have a nice little talking shop and let China do the business there.
As for Iran, because Bush rolled out the 45 minutes bollocks before, he has created a bit of a mountain to climb in getting the international community onboard. I hope he does. In the meantime, what do you propose? Nuking it?
Matey, I don't memorize CNN. I don't watch it as I don't have it. There is a world outside of the US and its MSM.
Where do I get the bollocks I spout?
It's called an education- maybe you should try it.
You've hit the limits of your argument and intellect and want to slag me off as a liberal? What a joke! I suppose Norman Swartzkopf and Chuck Hagel are liberals too!
I ain't a liberal, but I've got alot of questions you can't answer. Don't worry. Bush has run out of ideas too.
Billy's "common sense" doctrine?
You are joking! is this the nuke your problems away "doctrine". The " don't fuck with Billy/USA doctrine"?
Before I got put on scholastic suspension from my local university for taking the GWB approach to my studies, I took an international relations course with Ivan Volgyes. Google him if you like. He said, "International relations is not nice".
Ivan also used to throw our blue-books across the room at us and say, "I've never read such shit in my life".
Funny that's exactly what I'm thinking of the quality of your most recent posts.
Dear Darwin,
You're right. I'd like to see Rudy Guliani have a go- but I think he might get torn to pieces for his personal life (which I could give a shit about. I'd vote for him over any of the muppets making noises about running.
kris,
Are you sure you're professor wasn't Ward Churchill? We have a problem with Iran because George Bush has created a bit of a mountain to climb getting the international community onboard? WE CREATED THE IRANIAN PROBLEM,(?) is that what I'm really hearing? In a way I'd have to agree with you. We did teach them how to use the phone and they have taken that to a whole new level networking and convincing people that we are the problem. And where,....anywhere in my posts did you see, hear read, feel, touch, or smell me suggesting that we Nuke Iran? Are you skipping ahead? Certainly I am not suggesting that, at this point. I'm not a barbarian!! You say you'd let China handle South Korea? Now is that another one of your original thoughts or did you read that somewhere.....in one of my posts. Does this mean that you are actually agreeing with SOMETHING I said!!!! Why, I'm beginning to get the vapors!!!
And one more thing about winning.....In the Gruffest voice I can Muster....." Americans love a winner, Americans hate to lose, we're not only gonna kill the Bastards, we're gonna rip out their guts and use them to grease the wheels of our tanks"..... Patton
Billy, you really are an utter fuck wit.
No Billy, Bush didn't create Minneabuhatethejew, but Bush is going to have trouble getting a coliation together because the last time he did the evidence he presented was based upon faulty intel.
Just give it up Bill.
BTW, seen your blog and your Pete Townshend link. I used to be a big fan too. That is, until he got busted and accepted a caution (you accept guilt and get an official warning) for downloading kiddie-porn. Its kind of spoiled the whole Who thing for me.
Good v Evil? Sorry Pete. You lose.
kris,
Thanks for the F/W compliment. Coming from you be assured that it is cherished. Sorry you can't seem to stay on point which again makes me wonder, just what the heck is it that bugs you? But I've asked that question before and have grown tired of the rambling incoherent responses. Up the dose or take an anger management class.
ha, ha ha!
Hmmmmm...
Don't you dare ruin the Who for me K, I've got tickets for their show next March.
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