This Is Not A Democracy, It's A Republic........
We wont be afraid and we wont give up any of our constitutional freedoms becuase of a bunch of liberal wackos CELEBRATE THE 4TH
Hi Jenn,
You Da Mench, I Honor you I tip my hat to you. { Yiddish - meaning you the best }
Also if you ever go hiking across the great west, remember to always keep your napsack rolled up tight with the open end inside so that no creepy crawly things can enter your napsack at night and end up with creepy crawly things in with you in the sleeping bag over night.
Also when waking up in the morning to move your head ever so slowly because some long and deadly things might have coiled up next to you in the night.
When finally up always make sure to turn your boots upside down and shake them because lots of scary crawly things love to crawl inside of boots.
Be safe and be careful my friend.
The problem with not being scared is humans will eventually become complacent. At least those who are undisciplined. After 9/11, this country was vigilant- for about 6 months. But as days and weeks past without incident, we became drowsy and have since returned to our slumber.
Its funny Jenn, but the Sunday after 9/11, and the subsequent Sunday, churches across America were packed to capacity. At that time, my church was meeting in a theater in San Ramon, CA and attendance went from 400 to 950 over night. Standing room only, because 9/11 showed America we are vulnerable and yes, people were scared.
I think fear is a healthy thing because it reminds us of our mortality. When I go into the ocean for a little surfing or diving, I fear the ocean. Not in the sense of cowering and being ‘frozen with fear’, but with respect and understanding that I must pay attention to what that ‘big beautiful blue beast’ is doing.
Across the board, comments posted here can be divided into two categories: Fearful (respectful) and cavalier. Those who have a healthy respect for our 'mortality' are those who believe we need to be diligent in the defense of this country. We are not war mongers, but feel we need to seek out our enemies and kill them before they hit us again. Those who are cavalier seem to believe that our greatest concern is global warming. Domestic policy is far more important in their eyes than preventing another catastrophic attack against our people. That is a bad thing.
I will live with fear. Not the freaked out petrified fear that immobilizes a person, but the fear that causes me to pay attention to mysterious neighbors who seem to have nefarious intentions like you did, or to notice an individual who speaks broken English, who chooses a seat on a Southwest Airlines plane directly across from mine, then gets up and walks away leaving a laptop on the seat unattended. (I alerted the flight attendants). Your guest on My Point Radio a couple of weeks ago clearly articulated the internal threat to this country that is posed by groups who establish places like Islamberg, or who continually look for weaknesses in places like Kennedy International and Fort Dix that can be exploited. We must be vigilant.
The problem then is Liberals tend to NOT see these threats as real or real time and are inclined to move on to the next ‘stimulus’, while Conservatives tend to feel the need to eliminate the threat completely before moving on. And so the battle rages between the two philosophies. Sorry for the long winded comment.
Too bad its your party and the right wing nutjobs at Fox news who feel the need to keep us in a constant state of fear to justify this illegal war. Thanks t them, firefird, you've already given up some of your freedoms with the Stalinesque Patriot Act.
So why hasn't there at least been minor terrorist attacks here? A sniper at a mall, a small bomb in a subway? Nothing? Why? Maybe there really isn't a threat and this administration jumps on any chance to keep us scared to further erode our freedoms.
"you've already given up some of your freedoms with the Stalinesque Patriot Act."
Name them.
"...So why hasn't there at least been minor terrorist attacks here? A sniper at a mall, a small bomb in a subway? Nothing? Why?..."
Perhaps because our government has been diligent to act before, not after an attack?
Perhaps because the Patriot act really works in spite of the NYT?
God Forbid! That would mean... shall I say it? Liberals have been WRONG?!
Don't worry O. There are still a few Americans willing to stand between you and an enemy that would saw your head off for no other reason than because you drive a Ford, eat hot dogs or watch baseball.
Go back to sleep now, pet troll.
Sounds right. Americans don't do otherwise.
I do, however, agree with the liberal about the Patriot Act. If we are truly unafraid, and should be, we don't need the federal government babysitting us.
The Alternate Universe that contains orion: "Maybe there really isn't a threat and this administration jumps on any chance to keep us scared to further erode our freedoms."
It's just so strange that leftists, who are sooooo paralyzed with political correctness, won't even acknowledge the existence of threats to their existence for fear of "offending" someone. Many go as far as siding with the terrorists.
Yet, they'll buy Al Gore's global warming claptrap which uses the worst kind of fear mongering ... to the point that little kids have nightmares and cry all day. Gore proclaims the end of the world is near ... using every trick in his book to scare people into parting with their hard earned money to buy carbon offsets from Gore's carbon offset company.
The Bizarro world of leftism.
orion would you mind explaining what illegal war you are referring to? I don't know of us participating in any illegal wars at this time.
If you can find one, please state the legal justification for your opinion and highlight, with supporting facts, the illegality of the afore mentioned war.
u mite wanna check this out...
http://news.sky.com/skynews/arti...0,00.html?
f=rss
looks like another attempted "terror" act
Not attempted, Josh. Succeeded in Glasgow, Scotland at the airport there. Small airport - no security to speak of. They finally got one of these car bombs to explode. Dude had to be in the car to do it though. Witnesses said he was burned so badly his skin was peeling off. The two muslim (what a surprise!) men in the car were arrested.
Can we now call a spade a spade and start getting these people out of the west?
This isn't a terrorism war - terrorism is the tactic they use. This is a religious war - THEIR war. The war of islam against, well, the rest of the world. We need to start driving them back to their sandbox and isolate them there so they'll go back to killing each other.
Oh Wait.....they're still doing that too!
sorry i dunno why i wrote attepted...
I am realy pissed off, Im flying to the US soon for a few weeks but there will probably be more attacks before then.
Do you live in the UK, Josh? If so, I'm really sorry you folks are having to deal with this, yet again! I'm pretty hot about this myself. I'm tired of the left making excuses for these animals. That goes for those IRA animals as well. I was of the opinion that GB should have hunted those bastards down and shot them like the rabid animals they were. And these blood soaked bastards are even worse than the IRA mutants!
yeh im in the UK, i was in the US last year when there was that plot to blow up those 10 planes simultanously, and I had to fly home a few days later.
Yikes! A bit unnerving, to be sure - but at least you flew when you could be assured that extra security measures were implemented to make sure these barbarians couldn't assemble a bomb on board!
I still would have been a little jumpy, though...
"...This isn't a terrorism war - terrorism is the tactic they use. This is a religious war -..."
Witness Nailed it. Wake up trolls, time to see the threat and violence you say doesn't exist.
Yeh, I did wish that I could have stayed in the US tbh tho. Yes I felt safer because of the new security measures but they were realy annoying
LOL! Yes - I know they are REALLY annoying! I'm from the DC area - so you can imagine how we get treated here!
I used to get really annoyed by seeing blue-haired grandma's and 7 year old blond haired childred get pulled out of line for the "full" search while ahmed and muhammed get to sail right on by. I'm tired of the political correctness - call a spade a spade. If you carry a koran then YOU are the one pulled over for the "full" search.
Maybe if we make it real uncomfortable for them here they won't fly except for a one-way ticket out the country!
yeh, im flying to DC airport to change planes. Im just hopeing there wont be a stupid limit on hand luggage because im going to be doin a lot of photography and I have a lot of equiptment which will blatently get broken if it goes in the hold luggage. An arab looking guy approached me 2day and asked me where sum english language school was so i just told him to fuk off, for all I know he could turn out to be a terrorist
yeah this is a war. and i'd appreciate you conservatives stop losing it for us by supporting bush, who has no clue how to win it or what it even is.
I have to grant that so far, we've yet to suffer another major attack.
As for me, I favor a heavy handed approach, since the only thing radical muzzies seem to understand is extreme prejudice. I just wish we were more heavy handed ... same with Israel. Negotiating for peace as gotten Israel nowhere. Force and death is the only thing radical muzzies understand.
As for you ... your solution to ensuring our safety would be????
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ...h?
v=GQLpG5b18pk - its shit like this that makes me want to slowly and painfully kill every fuking muslim who has the audacity to enter our country
I'd argue with you, Lester, except your partly right! An even bigger obsticle to winning the war is the left and their incessant attack on us - the U.S. To these people WE are the problem - not the blood soaked barbarians who are killing everybody.
Judges, lawyers, and congress have no place in the decision making during a war. They don't have the authority - although they are hellbent on usurping that power. The president has sole authority on how to wage war. That is why is the commander in chief of all the military branches. Not congress, not judges - the president.
The state department is also useless! The new rules of engagement pretty much are assured to get our troops killed without being able to fire a shot! We need to let our troops fight the war and get everybody else out of it!
Josh - my suggestion to you would be to check ahead to see what the luggage requirements are. I have a feling that what you want to carry on the plane will exceed the carry on rule.
Try packing your equipment in such a way that even if a 600 lb gorilla slams it against the wall (and we all know there are baggage handlers who do just that!) your equipmnet won't get damaged.
yeh I will check ahead in both countries, i dont want to get stuck at an airport and find out i cant get my equiptment any further, thanks for the advice
witness- stick to immigration. you have no idea what you're talking about it here.
"since the only thing radical muzzies seem to understand is extreme prejudice."
really? so how come after 4 and a half years in Iraq we still get attacks like this? the suicide bombs in iraq come every day no matter what we try.
conservatives used to understand imperialism was stupid. "red dawn" wasn't just about russia and the US.
they're over here because we're over there.
basically in will be just a backpack with about 8kg of equiptment that should be alrite shoudlnt it?
they're over here because we're over there.
lester
And there it is! The biggest lib lie EVER!!!!
There are bombs going off every day in Iraq because Iran is fighting a proxy war against us. It's muzzie killing muzzies.
Do you think I give a fig about that? Because I can assure you that I don't CARE!!! Every dead muzzie is one less terrorist in my book.
We extend our hand in welcome and charity to them - and they bite it off! Extreme prejudice IS all they understand!
These people are not people - they are barbarians and it's time they go back to their blood soaked little world. NO ONE is safe from these animals! From Hindu's in India, Buddist's in Thailand, Jews in Israel, Catholics in the Philippines, Christains and Athiests in Europe and even Tribesmen in Africa. Islam is at war all of us!
The left sees this as well - nobody could be THAT stupid. But since they're socialists and want to foist the "peoples party" on us all what they are in actuallity doing is playing "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" game. They support islam against the traditional conservatives because they want to destroy traditional conservatism in this country.
You people think we don't know that?
lester: "really? so how come after 4 and a half years in Iraq we still get attacks like this? the suicide bombs in iraq come every day no matter what we try."
Because we've never fought the way we should have. Too busy making sure we didn't upset anyone. Too busy playing by some rules that only we play by.
My whole point in any of this Iraq stuff is ... we're there, let's do what the hell we need to do to extinguish the will and capability to fight and come home.
You know as well as I do that leaving Iraq in a lurch, and vunerable to a radical takeover will make things worse ... and as much as you think if we just leave the middle east things will stop, they won't.
No kidding, friend Darwin! If we leave Iraq now, then we've just handed an oil rich country to the terrorists!
We really DO need to take the gloves off and Dresdan them! Any place that harbors these people gets the Dresdan treatment!
You don't have a lot of time to plan and make IED's if your digging out of a bombed out city!
We need to secure Iraqs borders so the foreigners stay the hell out! Since the surge, the Iragi's have actually started killing these people themselves. Good for them - it's about damned time!
We might also think about splitting the country up into three or four regions so the factions stop fighting each other and no ethnic cleansing happens.
We might also just want to stick in a U.S. friendly dictator to haul these people back into order. That IS what they seem to understand, after all.
I actually want our military back here - to control OUR borders!
witness- the CIA says they're over there because we're over there. all the experts say it. google michael scheuer. the concept is called blowback and it's as basic to understanding terrorism as supply and demand is to economics. Do you think they drove the russians out of afghanistan because they hated them for their freedoms? Did Japan bomb Pearl Harbour because of our zoot suits and jazz music?
besides, BUSH is the one who let all the wahabis IN TO IRAQ. the christians in Iraq are being driven out and decimated by al queda. They are way way worse off than they were under saddam.
I don't care enough about muslims to try and "reform" them. only a fool gets in a pissing contest with a skunk. the iraq war is a LIBERAL NATION BUILDING WAR. AND I'M A LIBERTARIAN NOT A LIBERAL.
darwin- violence and chaos will never stop in the middle east. who cares if theres a takeover in iraq when we leave? it's the middle east. they produce nothing. it's the most useless part of the earth. Siberians contribute more to humanity than muslims.
and please, spare me the "because we haven't gone all out" argument. see the previous skunk analogy. a SUICIDE BOMBER isn't going to be imnpressed by anything we've got. even a nuke.
" actually want our military back here - to control OUR borders!
"
we agree on that
The CIA is full of libs - I'm not impressed.
You also can't explain why they're in India, Israel, Thailand, Africa, Russia, Europe, the Philippines, the U.S. and now even in South America.
Most of these people are NOT in the ME, yet because they have a different God or no God at all, they are all on the muzzies hit list!
Expalin the blowback on that one! What do I hear crickets? Of course I do! Because that theory doesn't wash!
What you leave out of the equation if the fact that islam is the problem. Islam is spreading their death cult because they believe they are on a mission from their made up moon god. They have always spread like a disease - this is just the 3rd manifestation of their world wide crusade.
Unfortunately, Europe leans so far to the left these days, it doesn't have the will to protect themselves this time around.
Way to smack his arse Wit.
Gawfer I get what your saying but that's what I mean by living smart. And fear and "respect" are two different things. I respect the ocean, never turn my back on her, but I do not fear her.
I must say that the prospect of going to England this summer is a nit less exciting as it was say 2 days ago, but whatever. I'm there, Kris promised me a pint, right Kris?
"and please, spare me the "because we haven't gone all out" argument."
It's not an argument, it's a fact. In an effort to appease the pathological "peace" activists and show the world we're not mean, we created a worse problem. If we had mercilessly destroyed the enemy from the onset ... I doubt you would have had many volunteers going to Iraq just to be turned into sausage links by 30mm chain guns.
Why thank you, Miss Jenn. The invite on your way out is still open, by the way.
Darwin - you totally hit the nail on the head! We're not waging war (well, we did and we won in about two weeks) we're just acting like traffic cops. Can't win the peace that way!
pint and the rest (of the barrel!) sorry, but no fag and a pint for you in the pub! (Fag is a cigarette here before you get too excited Paulie).
The smoking ban comes in tomorrow...
I am a part-time smoker but can't imagine going to the pub without lighting up.
I'm talking to your commenters Jenn, not you, but...
May I ask why it enters the minds of some of you to post comments like,
"Maybe if we make it real uncomfortable for them [Muslims] here they won't fly except for one-way ticket out the country!"
or
"its shit like this that makes me want to slowly and painfully kill every fuking muslim who has the audacity to enter our country"
This is pretty much the second comment stream I've seen today with racist comments in it. And it's getting a little grating. Are you incapable of fighting the enemy without being racist? Is that it? Does it require you to hate all Muslims to hate terrorists? Or are your minds just too small to understand that not all Muslims are evil? Maybe racism is just easier to commit to. Is that it?
Robert M.: "This is pretty much the second comment stream I've seen today with racist comments in it. And it's getting a little grating. Are you incapable of fighting the enemy without being racist?"
Please ... are you that thin-skinned? Whoever wrote that has every right to be pissed off and can call them anything he pleases.
"Does it require you to hate all Muslims to hate terrorists?"
No, but Josh, who wrote that lives in England is probably growing just a tad tired of muslims imposing their will in the UK, not to mention several attempts to kill the Brits.
"Maybe racism is just easier to commit to. Is that it?"
Maybe you might engage your brain next time instead of using standard lib-speak. You seem to have succumbed to the pressures of PC, please remember that people that succumb to the fear of PC are easily controlled.
"...This is pretty much the second comment stream I've seen today with racist comments in it..."
Robert, you are the only one applying a race to that religion. Muslim is NOT a race, rather a belief system bent on the destruction of western civilization.
The instruction book of that belief system is littered with words of encouragement to rid the world of the christian, the jew, the athiest, and anyone else who doesn't subscribe the that belief. They are our enemy, and the radical arms of it have clearly indicated they'd kill all of us if the opportunity presented itself. It is a religion that celebrates death, while others celebrate life. Josh merely wants to give them something to celebrate.
I was gonna say what Gawfer said. It's not a race. That IS the standard lib talking point. If you can't think of anything to contribute to the discussion just fall back on the tired old "you're a racist" line.
Call me any damned name you want! I'm sick of this death cult. All they do is kill. PERIOD! They kill Hindus, Buddists, Jews, Christians, Athiests, African Tribesmen and when they get bored they kill each other and themselves. That's all they do!
It's time to put a halt to it and start the mass deportations out of every country they have inflicted themselves on. NOW!
Maybe you might engage your brain next time instead of using standard lib-speak.
Yeah darwin, thanks. Oh, but one thing. I'm not a liberal. I'm a libertarian. I hold as much contempt for those wacko hippies as you do. If they had their way, we'd be a crappy socialist republic with no army. But I'm not a racist either. And I hold high contempt for them too.
I wasn't aware it was "PC speak" to state that not all Muslims are evil. Is it PC to say not all Jews are bad? Or blacks? Please tell me why I can defend them, but if I defend Muslims, I'm suddenly "PC" and "liberal."
Gawfer,
Christianity, the religion I follow, also has its problems. I believe in Leviticus is says to put to death those who are gay. Do you think that's okay?
Let's face it, all religions have bad rules. But we've decided to disobey stupid rules, and so have many Muslims. Do you really believe everyone named Mohammad is out to kill you? Get real.
Witness,
You too infer that I'm liberal. Shows one thing, you're defensive. Anyone who disagrees with you must be "liberal." Well I'm not, as I explained to darwin. I'm a libertarian.
I used to be a conservative. I know how it is. I know the next step you'll take is to call me a liar, like I'm a liberal "posing" as something else. I've been a conservative. I've been there. I've made similar accusations. I've done what you're doing. I've spoken it. It's illogical, it makes no sense.
You think it's cool to hate a religion? You think you belong to something? You belong all right, you belong to an ideology that's collapsing under the weight of bigotry and of big government. (Yes, big government. The Patriot Act, the wiretaps.) Why? Is your loyalty so deep?
Your only loyalty is to yourself. And those you like. You have no loyalty to an ideology that labels all Muslims killers and murderers.
I don't hate. Not Muslims, not conservatives, not liberals, not you.
I'm not insulting you, I'm just trying to get you to think for yourself. I've been where you are. I was smart enough to get out.
Think about it, you know there are good Muslims. You know they aren't all evil. You know Hitler made the same arguments against the Jews, and FDR (a liberal) against the Japanese. Stop holding the party line. Good people have no business doing that.
I coulnd't stand to read your entire rant. I stopped at "You think it's cool to hate a religion." Ah, no don't. And I've got probably more libertarianism in my pinky than you do. I loathe the bloated beast that is our federal government.
As to hating a religion - bah humbug! I hate this religions actions. I hate that all they do is murder innocent people. That's all they do - KILL!
As to thinking it's cool - what bunk - I want it to end. I want these people to get off their hellbent mission to convert the world to their religion.
While not all muslims are terrorists (yet) all terrorism is done by muslims. It's a theme that spands the entire globe.
Don't think for a nono-second that if we actually named this war for what it actually is - The War against Islamofacists - that the entire population, including the Afghans and Iraqi's we just freed, wouldn't all rise up and wage war against us.
Look what a bunch of cartoons did...
I'm sorry you didn't read it all. I think you missed a lot. I'd encourage you to, though it's not my business.
And you cannot say all terrorism is caused by Muslims. What about the IRA? The Sandinistas? They weren't Muslim.
I want terrorism to stop to, but I'm tolerant enough to understand that I don't want to end Islam. It has as much right to exist as Judaism or Christianity.
As for being more libertarian than me, I don't want to debate about it. But it's a philosophy, it's a lot more than wanting small government. And it doesn't allow for any bigotry whatsoever.
No it doesn't! What a bunch of bunk! Libertarianism means you have the right to be an asshole without the government interferring with you as long as you don't break any law or hurt anybody.
As for wanting islam to cease to exist - yes - I want that. It's a false religion that had it's roots in a rouge sand pirate who went around lusting after everything everybody else had - and then called it a religion. No other religion that ever existed has as much blood on its hands as this one does. That includes the sandinistas and ira - who, by the way, have pretty much gone away. Neither of them or anyone else for that matter, can claim 1400 years of terrorism. Islam can tho...
Leviticus does NOT tell us to kill gays. The verse which you bastardize reads as follows:
"If a man lie with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
"They shall surely be put to death" implies that their souls will die, i.e. they will not enter the kingdom of Heaven (assuming that repentance never occurs). It does NOT say or imply that man is to commit murder on a gay, since the Ten Commandments are very clear on that whole "murder" thingy. (And please, don't bring up the death penalty, since that's a different topic for a different day, and I don't think we should "hijack" (to use Muslim terms) the thread anymore than we already have.)
In other words, the Bible is crystal freakin' clear on gay sex. It is also clear on the fact that we aren't being commanded to kill gays. If God has a problem with them (and Scripture says that He does), how about we let Him deal with them, huh? Not my call or my concern.
Witness,
I know exactly what it means to be a libertarian.
You're wrong, it does not mean, "you have the right to be an asshole without the government interferring with you as long as you don't break any law or hurt anybody."
You're so close. It means, "you have the right to be an asshole without the government interfering with you as long as you don't hurt anybody." Most libertarians believe in breaking the law. Ever heard of Thoreau's essay, "Civil Disobedience?"
But that's irrelevant. The point is, it's an acceptance philosophy, and one which is based highly on logic and rational self-interest. As expressed by Thoreau (an abolitionist, and anti-racist) and Ayn Rand (who believed in logical thought). Racism is highly illogical, and so libertarianism hardly can support it.
See, under this philosophy, you can believe what you want, and so can others. Don't you think deporting people because they believe differently might break the non-aggression axiom?
You want another religion to disappear for your convince. That's also highly illogical.
Libertarian? You? Well, you've got some elements, but you have to evolve a little into it. Are you new to it perhaps? Just wondering.
Jonathan,
Yeah, right. Sure. We can argue the Bible all day, but I would ask you why, if what you say is true, where so many gays burned in the name of Christianity? Do you know where the term "fagot" comes from?
And I agree with you that we just leave gays be. None of our business. The difference between you and me is I'm accepting the history, you aren't.
“…Christianity, the religion I follow, also has its problems. I believe in Leviticus is says to put to death those who are gay. Do you think that's okay?...”
No, I do not think that is ok, but you are quoting out of context. Fist of all, Christianity officially began 400 years after Malachi was written. That was when Christ was born. Leviticus was written some 4000 years prior to Christ, and was part of the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the bible) which provided rules and guidelines to live by for the Hebrews. The new covenant clearly indicates that those who live that life style won’t inherit eternal life, but it does not tell us to kill homosexuals.
http://www.biblegateway.com/pass...%201&
version=31 1:21-27.
”…Let's face it, all religions have bad rules. But we've decided to disobey stupid rules, and so have many Muslims…”
Not sure when Christ instructed His disciples to ‘fight’ all who disbelieve, yet we see an example from the Qur’an-
It commands Muslims to fight Jews and Christians:
"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Mohammed) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Surah At-Taubah 9:29)
Jizyah is a special high tax to be paid only by Jews or Christians who do not want to renounce their religion and convert to Islam (this Qur'anic Law is still practiced today in much of the Muslim world).
"Jihad (holy fighting in allah's cause) is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not." (Surat Al-Baqarah 2:216)
“…Do you really believe everyone named Mohammad is out to kill you? Get real…”
I believe there are some Abduls, Osamas, Rashids, and other Islamic names mixed in there too. The fact is my Libertarian friend, not all Muslims are terrorists, but I’d say just about all terrorists are Muslims. And Islam is no friend of Judaism, Christianity or anything else for that matter.
As I said previously, Islam is a religion that celebrates death. There is therefore no comparison to any other religion.
Islam teaches to kill those that refuse to convert. Christianity teaches to spread the word of His love, but in the end, it is between that person and God. What non-Christians view as Christians being judgemental is only Christians relaying God's word - but in the end, a Christian won't kill you if you don't convert and any Christian in history that has did it against the teachings of scripture (unlike Islam whose holy book encourages violence)
Seriously Gawfer. Don't play semantics ok? our holy book is the Bible. It contains the Old Testament.
And it's a nice history, but I'm talking about today. Not every Muslim follows the Koran to the letter.
You're also ignoring my point about the burning of gays I see.
And I also see you've admitted you think everyone with an Islamic name wants you dead. That'd be called paranoia.
And again, not all terrorists are Muslim. Do you know there are Christian guerrillas? But we're not all killers. Why are Muslims your target? I don't get it.
DvG,
I don't get your history lesson. I know what the Koran says. We have a copy. (It was given to my father by a nice, normal, Muslim guy, who didn't kill anyone. In return my dad gave him a Bible, because this Muslim was open-minded and wanted to learn more about Christianity. I know, destroys your stereotypes. Sorry.) But, again, not all Muslims follow the stupid rules contained therein, just like Christians don't follow all the stupid laws contained in the Bible.
Let's face it. Your arguments, all of you, is this:
I should hate all Muslims. And I should do it because the 9/11 hijackers happened to be Muslim.
That is so illogical that I can hardly imagine how you convince yourselves it's true.
Again, how many of you have met a Muslim?
Oh and regarding, "all terrorists are Muslim."
Ever heard of the KKK?
Sorry about the multiple comments, but I keep thinking up new points. (There are so many.)
What about Muslims in the military? Are they evil too? Are they gonna kill us? Why are they fighting terrorists then?
You people... so illogical...
Robert M,
Logic suggests that libertarians can in fact be racists. One can freely choose to associate or like whomever they choose to, and that flows from the property right of self ownership, which is arguably the fundamental axiom of libertarianism (if one agrees with Murray Rothbard on this point).
Gawfer,
while Conservatives tend to feel the need to eliminate the threat completely before moving on. And so the battle rages between the two philosophies
The real battle is internal and between the various factions on the Right. The Right is hardly a unified group, especially these days and especially amongst conservatives like the neoconservatives (Wilsonian idealists) and foreign policy realists, whose rivalries span back to the Cold War. Throw non-intervention advocated by, generally, the Old Right into the mix and let the sparks fly.
As I see it, there's little debating between the left and right. Just cheap insults and dull and unimaginative sloganeering, unless you find being called a wingnut something more substantive than I would.
Yeah, right. Sure. We can argue the Bible all day, but I would ask you why, if what you say is true, where so many gays burned in the name of Christianity?
I have no idea what you're talking about. If what you say is true, then I would submit that the problem isn't with Christianity but with those perverted pseudo-followers you mention. They will have to answer to God for killing anyone.
God does not command us to kill gays. Sorry 'bout that. Get your facts straight.
Point taken Mr. Geek.
I would however, like to clarify my statement that you're referring to.
The Left would have us believe the greatest threat to our well being is Global Warming (hence the talking points of their campaign) while the right would have us believe the greatest threat is terrorist attacks from Islamic radicals.
That is the philosophy that I meant to refer to. If the left does not recognize the threat of terror, of course they will look at other frightful things to poke.
Mr. M. here is attempting to make a racial argument and attach bigotry to those who disagree. No one here is a racist or bigot as far as I know. Yet his attempt at diverting attention away from the premise has not left his fingertips.
Because the bible NEVER commanded murder, I can be comfortable with any man. The bible does however tell us to execute murderers. Not people who live alternative life styles, but those who advocate and participate in the murder of innocent people. See Genesis 9:6.
Jonathan said it pretty clearly: "...God does not command us to kill gays. Sorry 'bout that. Get your facts straight."
Robert M.: "I should hate all Muslims. And I should do it because the 9/11 hijackers happened to be Muslim."
No ... you seriously miss the point. Islam has such control over the great majority of it's adherents, that even good people who were unfortunately born unto islam have the capacity for violence. The nice muslim guy you talk to could be the muslim that kills you the next day. He may not want to do it ... but radicals may have threatened to kill his family, or he didn't have the courage to face up and say no. It's not a big leap for practioners of islam to go from peaceful to murderer. Everything and anything can be justified with the koran.
I don't hate all muslims. I wish they would rise as one and destroy the sickness spreading across the world ... but I am wary of nearly all muslims. There are a handful of brave muslims who have spoken out, even renounced islam. These brave souls are far and few between and it will take many more to finally snuff out the terror.
On a side note Robert ... you have a serious case of political correctness. It seems to drives your thoughts and feelings and makes it difficult for you to face reality. It also makes one fearful of speaking their mind ...
Don,
Sure, libertarians can be racist, but the philosophy has a history of being very anti-racist. Incidentally, if you're not racist, why are you arguing this?
Jonathon,
Why are you not answering my comment about the burning of people for Jesus? I would think that if you truly believed what you're saying, you would be able to defend that.
Gawfer,
I'm not "attaching" anything. I think someone saying they want to deport or kill all Muslims is racist. How is that not racist? Please explain how advocating genocide is not racist.
Darwin,
Ok, so you're not saying they're all terrorists, you're saying they're all cowards. Nice. Still though, if that's the case, why are there Muslims in the military? Fighting terrorists?
And don't make me laugh. Me being PC? Give me a break. If you knew half of the conversations that go on between my friends and I, you'd change your tune. PC. What a joke. What I think is that you're just attaching labels, much like your friend Gawfer suggested I was doing.
"...I'm not "attaching" anything. I think someone saying they want to deport or kill all Muslims is racist. How is that not racist? Please explain how advocating genocide is not racist..."
One last time. Muslim is NOT a race. It is a religion. Most commonly found in the middle east, but claims to be 140 million strong. It is NOT limited to a particular race. Is that clear enough for you? You seem to be saying all Middle East and only Middle East peoples are Muslims. That is wrong an many levels.
I am saying any who subscribes to that belief system, because the qur'an advocates violence against non believers is a possible threat to western civilization, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR RACE. Get it?
Give it up, Gawfer! Robert is a plant. Plain and simple. He says he's a lbertarian, was a conservative (yeah right) yet he cries racist at the drop of a hat.
See above post. Ya paranoid dumbass.
Oh and if I'm a "plant" (ya paranoid dumbass) why would I take such painstaking care to write my blog in the style I do? I don't think I need to make you look more insane. You've done a fine job.
Never mind. I'm done. If there was a way to give you the finger over the net I'd do it.
I don't know why I try. You're a racist. It's ingrained. You'll justify it any way you can. Even if that means calling me the enemy.
Sad, man, sad.
Robert, before you piss off into the long good night, I would add that I have several muslim friends and graduated with honours from the school of oriental and african studies: It's fair to say I know a few muslim people.
Those muslims I know are sick to death of these fucktard terrorists and have told me they want them fitted for orange jumpsuits and given a one way ticket to gitmo.
Now, you have your little hissy fit. I've adopted a bit of the British way. We are watching the Diana Concert and the terrorists can get stuffed. We won't be cowed. I'm sorry you are.
kris: "I would add that I have several muslim friends and graduated with honours from the school of oriental and african studies: It's fair to say I know a few muslim people."
The obvious question is ... what are they doing to stop the radicals? Nothing wouldn't be a good answer.
Yay! It's the "some of my best friends" card again!! I wonder how they feel about some of the comments posted by your compatriots on previous threads such as:
Dave -- "Kill all immigrants."
Josh -- "kill every f----g muslim who has the audacity to enter our country."
Darwin -- "The nice muslim guy you talk to could be the muslim that kills you the next day."
Josh (again) -- "If I had my way every muslim/islamic would be long dead."
I hope you make sure to let your friends know you consider them to be some of the "good ones."
GMA
Given that you are probably not gay or muslim or an abortionist and that I'm betting you are a sad, white, middle-class wanker, I really don't think you're in a position to lecture me.
I live in London. That should be sufficient indication that I interact with members of many religions and races every day.
So fuck off back to Eugene (lots of muslims in Eugene?!) and save your hand-wringing for the hippie coffee club.
ps GMA
This is not Kris's Jungle- it's Jenn's. I am therefore not in the position to take personal responsibility for all the comments contained in this site.
GMA you're an ass hole
Jonathon,
Why are you not answering my comment about the burning of people for Jesus? I would think that if you truly believed what you're saying, you would be able to defend that.
Actually, I thought I did answer it when I said "I have no idea what you're talking about." So in case you missed that part, Webster, I'll type it again in all caps (just in case you're myopic):
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
There. Put in that in your bong and smoke it.
"Expalin the blowback on that one! What do I hear crickets? Of course I do! Because that theory doesn't wash!
"
I'm not saying anything about islam. I'm not defending anyone or anything about it. i feel bad for conutries that have to live near it. I'm saying that we have no moral obligation to fight it nor any geographical reason to bother with the middle east, easily the least productive region on earth.
I agree that europe is leaning to far to the left but america, especially conservative america, is leaning even farther to the left. They are literally on a mission to reform islam. how is that conserving anything?
"...I'm betting you are a sad, white, middle-class wanker,...(lots of muslims in Eugene?!) and save your hand-wringing for the hippie coffee club..."
Dang, that's why I love kris! That and she's a fellow Sailor.
Darwin,
I too, have several muslim friends, "fresh off the boat" and otherwise. They are disgusted by what is going on with the radicals in their religion, as am I, and practice a much more "liberal" form of Islam. They speak out against the psychopaths and they condemn them, but they are living in Canada and therefore have the freedom to do so without worrying about personal safety.
While I agree that moderate muslims in Europe should be speaking out and condemning the terrorists, I don't think apology should be demanded of them for the actions of a few freaks who have lost all touch with what is actually "peaceful." I don't feel it's right to hold the muslims I know responsible for behaviour that's not theirs. I associate with them based on the personal qualities I observe on a daily basis, not their religious beliefs.
This is not to say that we should be careless and disregard suspicious behaviour or questionable actions, by all means these should be reported and punished, but based on my personal experiences with muslims, I'd have to say it's patently unfair to paint them all with a broad brush. Besides that, I believe that hatred breeds hatred, and we have too much of that in the world today without my adding mine to the pot.
What is so interesting is that these 'Liberal Muslims' are considered by 'purist Muslims' as apostate, that they have blasphemed Allah and Allah has hardened their hearts, and therefore should also be put to death.
If I was a Muslim, and that 'Scimitar' was being held over my head, I'd keep my mouth shut too. And I don't believe for one second that moderate or liberal Muslims are safe anywhere including Canada, because it only takes one to 'see the light' and be justified in his personal holy jihad, earning his 72 Virginians.
No, there is no room in Islam for Moderates and Liberals. That's why grey is not a color.
Islam can be practiced many different ways, just like Christianity or any other religion for that matter.
It is certainly true that liberal and moderate muslims are seen by the "purists" as blasphemers, but it also works the other way around. I've had many conversations with my islamic friends who don't see how those "purists" can possibly think they are following God's way when they are working to annihilate millions of people.
Am I worried about my friends converting and becomming jihadists - absolutely not. I can't really rattle off a whole list of proofs as to why I think that, but they are good people, and I've come to know them well.
I will grant that it does happen, commited westerners turning to the other side, but that's not the case for the majority of people.
Let's hope your trust is not misplaced Tanya. Your contributions here would be missed. 
Tanya ... it's incumbent on muslims to not only publically reject radical islam, but to do everything in their power to stop it and destroy it. If millions of muslims spoke publically where other muslims could hear them ... that would in turn encourage others to do the same.
If muslims have to come to a western country to feel free and safe enough to condemn terror, then they should feel obligated to do whatever they can to stop it.
I've had enough of people telling me not all muslims are bad. If they are so many good muslims out there ... and they're not stopping the spread of this horrific disease, then something's wrong.
There is no way in hell any other religious group would get away with doing what islamists are doing now without the world screaming that they stop the killing.
If 20% of all the world's Catholics were going around forcibly converting people and killing in the name of Jesus ... would you just say "Well, the rest of the Catholics aren't like that, and we shouldn't really expect them to do anything about it. We'll just protect them in our western countries while we fight the radicals". I sincerely doubt I'd hear that anywhere.
You're correct, moderate muslims should speak out against the radical nutjobs, and my friends who are muslims do - they publicly condemn the actions of their "purist" compatriots in their religious circles.
I'm a little confused as to what else they can/should be expected to do?
And yes, there ARE good muslims out there. I took dancing lessons with a Sunni guy, I teach with a Shite, and I've known through my University and work career many many more. Not once did any of them finangle me into an alley and blow me to smithereens. Not once did any of them suggest that I might be inferior because I am a woman. Not once did any of them engage in terrorist activities. And they wont.
I know that there are shitheads out there, but I prefer not to group my friends, who I've come to respect and admire, in with them.
How about turning radicals asses in? How about confronting any radical behavior? How about going to mosques and telling the radicals to go home?
I never see, with few exceptions, any news about muslims condemning violence and their radical brethern. I do see however, more and more attempts to change the laws in this country and bend our behavior to accomodate muslims. I see individual jihadists becoming bolder and bolder ... and I see more and more demands to change things for muslims.
The hell with that. If muslims like living here, then they better pick up the slack because I'm damn tired of millions of muslims living here not doing jack shit while we have to expend enormous resources to prevent another attack.
It's not my fucking religion that's hell bent on killing or converting the world. Either live here and do something about it, or get the fuck out.
By the way, I don't give a shit how good your friends are. They're living in North America under the protection of our laws and customs and we deserve at the very least, their utmost effort in stopping the ever growing radicalism.
Muslims need to clean house.
O.K. So you're suggesting that they hunt down the sleeper cells themselves? Because they happen to practice a form of Islam, and hail from a certain part of the ME, that automaticly becomes their responsibility?
Look, don't misunderstand me, it's definitely everyone's job to keep an eye out for possible trouble and report it, and I know my friends would if they spotted anything. (One of them actually had a hand in leading the police to the arrest of one of the "fine" gentleman in Toronto who was planning a massive attack). However, the people I know are already going above and beyond in their particular groups to condemn the radical nutjob behaviour.
I don't expect to have to apologize everytime a white guy/gal or a Serbian guy/gal does something dumb (believe me, with the latter, there'd be a LOT of apologies if I did have to!), and I don't think they should have to apologize for their beliefs everytime some stupid idiot decides that blowing someone up is the way of Allah.
This is not to say that it's not their responsibility to condemn it and turn over information, but it certainly is NOT their responsibility to take the heat for it.
Just for the record, I hate that so called "accomodation" stuff as much as you do. I don't believe that someone is entitled to come to North America and demand things be changed around entirely to suit them. The muslims I hang out with are NOT like that. They practice their own religion at home, but they also send their kids to school where we have (and they participate in) Christmas concerts, and they don't complain. They are respectful of our beliefs, and we are respectful of theirs. There is SO much more to life than who believes in what God.
I'm not saying all Muslims are like my friends, because they're not, but what I am saying is that not all Muslims are bad.
I don't disagree with much of what you say ... however, my point is that radical islam must be destroyed from the inside. Political correctness has too much of a grip on the western world or it would have been dealt with by now ... and I don't necessarily imply violence or military action.
We can keep it bay or slow it's progression, but it's ultimately muslims themselves that must deal it the fatal blow.
Yes, I agree with that assessment as well... The bystanders must rise up against the bully...
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