This Is Not A Democracy, It's A Republic........
Yes, this man is a genius and his jail system has one of the lowest return rates in the entier country.
Brilliant.
Well he told them, if they didn't like it to not come back. I guess that got the point across.
My Favorite part of the article: He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.
When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democrat lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. RIGHT-ON.
Living in Maricopa county, I have heard MY Sheriff called everything from publicity hound to Nazi racist. Naturally, these opinions come from people too stupid to see the truth. Sheriff Joe and Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas are two bright lights in a dark world. They actually do what they were elected to do. God bless them both.
."Latino leaders and faith-based organizations in the U.S. state of Arizona want a local sheriff to disconnect the hot line he created for people to report information about illegal immigrants, saying it raises the chance of racial profiling."
So what? Fuck "Latino leaders" and "faith-based" organiztions. Would Japan allow 20 million white people to suddenly become citizens and change their traditions and culture forever? No ... so why should we allow 20 million mexicans in to change our language, culture and traditions forever?
Fuck this shit ... kick their asses out and seal the country. NO MORE immigration ... legal or illegal.
Darwin,
No more immigration? What a great idea...(rolls eyes). This whole country was built on immigration.
Change the culture? News flash! America doesn't have any one culture.
Yes in fact it does.
And I as the wife of a LEGAL immigrant agree. Time to shut the doors.
Oh, and yes this country was built with immigrants, LEGAL ones. Now there are laws.
No, in fact, it doesn't!
America has not been around nearly long enough to have developed it's own definitive culture. It's a mixture of hundreds of different cultures from around the world. Some of which have existed for thousands of years. For example, New York and Boston areas have a heavy influence of Italian, Irish, Jewish and Asian cultures. The Minnesota has a huge Scandanavian community. California, Arizona, etc. have enormous Mexican and Filipino communities. Pretty much anywhere you go in this country you're going to find all sorts of different cultures. Wheather you like it or not, the culture of America is multi-culturalism. I don't think that's a bad thing though. Do you? If so, why?
I don't understand what you think completely closing the borders would accomplish. Could you please explain?
Thanks!
"No more immigration? What a great idea...(rolls eyes). This whole country was built on immigration."
Jay ... every nation that ever existed was built on "immigrants". But let's say you're right. So what? Does that now mean we have to admit everyone who wants to come here.
No.
What it means is that there are plenty of countries that have some work to do. Let these so-called immigrants stay home and expend their energies fixing whatever it is that makes their country less attractive.
"America doesn't have any one culture."
Yes Jay, it does ... it's called "American". Ever heard of it? Get with the program Jay, grow some balls ... stand up for YOUR country, your traditions, your heritage and YOUR CULTURE.
Jay please come back later this evening, I will take the time to explain then, after my show.
Darwin,
Since when am I not standing up for my country? You don't even know me.
It's not enough to say that American culture is just "American". What defines American culture? What does it mean to be American to you? If it means something different to me than it does to you, does that make me bad? I think it just makes me different. I don't think that's a bad thing. When people aren't willing to embrace difference, I think that's a bad thing. What do you think?
I'll look forward to your reply.
Jenn,
Alright! I'll look forward to your thoughts.
I LOVE Maricopa Joe! He's AWESOME!
Hey Miss Jenn and Darwin - did you hear that some asshat judge made some ruling AGAISY Hazelton, PA? I can't find it - but I don't think it's about all their laws. But itt sound like their going to cherry pick them enough to screw everything up. These a-hole activist lib judges are KILLING us! We have GOT to get people in offices that will close these damned borders and kick these damned freeloaders OUT of here!
And since we're totally incompetant in controlling our borders and immigration, then THAT has to stop as well. I'm up for at least a ten to twenty year moritorium on all immigration.
Jay - I get real tired of people saying America has no culture - how retarded! Of COURSE we have a culture. It's roots are THOUSANDS of years old and comes, for the most part, from Europe - same as the people who brought those customs here! And we, as AMERICANS, have blended them nicely in our melting pot! Our customs and celebrations bear little resemblance to those of our European cousins and some things we do are uniquely AMERICAN.
There are certain things about us that identify us as Americans all over the world. We may look like other people this whole globe over, but our behaviour and mannerisms give us away everytime. WE may not see it, but THEY do!
Hay - doesn't Maricopa Joe also make his prisoners wear pink? Pink jumpers, pink skivvies, pink EVERYTHING?
Witness,
You pretty much just said the same thing I did. I didn't say America doesn't have any culture. I said it doesn't have its own one definitive culture. Of course there are some cultural aspects and celebrations here that are uniquely American. Jazz and Thanksgiving would be two examples. However, not every American celebrates Thanksgiving. All I'm saying is that based on how America was built and on how long it's existed, it doesn't have its own definitive culture in the same way that a country like Norway does, for example.
Well, I was wrong! Jerk judge did indeed strike down Hazelton's laws - the laws this brave little town enacted to protect itself from the horde of illegal invaders.
http://www.reuters.com/article/
w...645989120070726
Our elected tormentors have abandoned us and this town showed us the way to save ourselves! Many towns, county's, cities and even entire states have followed suit. That is all now in danger. There has GOT to be a way to stop these judges! They are killing us all.
Jay: "Since when am I not standing up for my country? You don't even know me."
I have a tendency to immediately dislike anyone who throws out the "we're a nation of immigrants" thing and gives me the impression they would approve of 20 million illegals or being legalized.
I really don't need to "know" you ... just read what you write.
"When people aren't willing to embrace difference, I think that's a bad thing. What do you think?"
It's true that America has people from several "cultures" and nationalities. However, for the most part, they all identify as American. Prior to the insipid separation tactics of the left, people identified themselves as American, even though they may have come from, or their background is from Italy, Mongolia, Puerto Rico, China, England, Mexico or whereever.
At one time ... in a galaxy far, far away ... people actually came here to be, and be called American ... without the hyphen.
The left has successfully segregated what was once a basically blended peoples into varying groups categorized by country of origin ... the hyphenated American.
The left claims this is part of their "multicultural" bullshit where all cultures and nationalities are faultless and good except whites.
This tactic has done nothing but create special classes of people, based essentially on their skin color and dialect.
It has taken the "American" out of being American.
Back to your question as to whetherI think embracing difference is a bad thing ... not generally, but when carried to the extremes the left has taken it ... to where "culture" supercedes nationality ... yes, I do think it's a bad thing. A very bad thing.
"It's not enough to say that American culture is just "American"."
Why not? Your reply to witness is getting a little picky. We don't need to be around for thousands of years to develop a culture. If you went anywhere in the world and asked if America had it's own culture ... would you get blank stares? Negative replies? According to the rabid dogs of islam, they hate us because of our "culture" ... they say we infect the minds and souds of those innocent muslims doncha know.
Enough Jay! You obviously just DON'T GET IT! Please move to a place that shares your contempt for America - you will find that you have lot's of choices - pick one! I, quite frankly, am tired of people bashing my country.
You are probably one that thinks we should have no borders and should let the whole damned world just come on in! Like we have no say over who is allowed to come to this country. A right that EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS!!!! Why do WE have no say? Why ONLY us?
I'm tired of all you America haters - just go to hell - all of you! And I never say things like that, but I'm sick to DEATH of YOU poeple!
wit: "Well, I was wrong! Jerk judge did indeed strike down Hazelton's laws - the laws this brave little town enacted to protect itself from the horde of illegal invaders"
Yeah ... but the town leadership expected it and they're going to appeal.
Read this on the basis of the judges decision. Besides being a Clinton appointee, I wonder if the judge considers himself to be a hyphenated American.
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/...immigrant-laws/
Witness,
I don't hate America and I didn't say anything to indicate that I do. I don't think America should have no borders. I don't know where you got that one.
All I'm doing is expressing my opinion. I believe there's a little blurb on the right side of this blog telling people to do just that. However, what you've just said about me is not an opinion. It's an assumption you've just made up based on very little information and the fact we don't completley agree. I value all people's educated thoughts and opinions. Why are you resorting to personal attack? What does this accomplish?
Thanks Darwin - better story than the one I found. They are trying to bury this! You'd think the mighty left would be trumpeting this all over the land in triumph! We Win - You Lose - YOUR COUNTRY!
Gawd! I'm so bummed! Even if this goes to the stupid supremes (well five of them are stupid) it will essentially be decided by five lawyers. How did THAT become a good idea?
The judges decision sounds pretty shaky. Some of the commenters to that post have some good points.
"How did THAT become a good idea?"
I'll never know.
Did your hear some dems are thinking of expanding the SCOTUS to 11 judges if a dem wins the Prez?
Darwin,
I agree that people who become American citizens should identify as Americans. However, they should also be free to express their culture. For example, Americans who are Muslim should be free to go to Mosque. Americans who came from Sweden should be free to celebrate Mid-Summer. Americans who came from Canada should be free to have Thanksgiving dinner on the second Sunday in October if they want to. Americans who came from France should be free to celebrate Bastille Day as they see fit. Etc, etc, etc... I agree the hyphenated thing is a little silly, but at the same time, people shouldn't be asked to deny their heritage.
No - but it makes sense in their universe.
Roosevelt threatened to do the same thing when the SCOTUS were actually following the Constitution and overturning his socialist policies in the New Deal.
He threatened to lead it up with enough people on his side that all his laws would be rubber stamped.
There is nothing in the Constitution on the NUMBER of justices the SCOTUS is to have. I'm not sure, but I think there was a time when it only had five - again, not sure.
Since Kennedy is the new swing vote and actually votes the correct way at times, (therefore threatening the left-leaning lurch the court has taken in the last 30 years) it would make perfect lib sense to stack the court with two more libs to ensure they accomplish their goals through the judiciary, what they can't get done through local, state and federal legislation.
Sometimes I wish I was 90.....
I am a proud AMERICAN. My family hails from the most northern tip of Scotland. I am and have always been able to go to the Scottish Games and be proud of my HERITAGE. But that's all it is.
A heritage. (A legal one as well)
I am American. I am proud of it.
Being American doesn't mean giving up a heritage or a past but it also means being American.
Historically Americans were thick skinned, strong people, ready to stand up to the villains of the world and be a united force.
Immigrants came here with bells on.Excited for the day they could swear on a bible or whatever and state emphatically that they were American. They took English classes, learned the pledge, cooked chicken and played baseball. They worked hard for their money and took pride in their homes.
When adversity struck Americans banded together and fought back. They shunned tea and drink ridiculously expensive coffee.
Americans buy Christmas trees and hunt for eggs. We cry when they play the national anthem and we we hold our hands over our hearts when we swear our allegiance to our flag.
Americans are loud, opinionated and fun. We have taken all of the traditions from around the world and melded them into what being an American is. St. Patricks Day, Cinco De Mayo, other secular holidays. We meld them all.
There are so many things from our accents to our news to our television programming that make us American. Our clothes, the foods we eat, (all of them).
You can't pin down what an American IS on a blog, but doubtless wherever we go, they know who and what we are.
But the left wants to end all of that and make us a society of classes, religious groups and races, all apart. Seperate. Hyphenated names was the start. Assigning victim status to "minorities" was the next step. And on and on they go.
So Jay you see we do have a culture, but don;t worry, the left is working hard every day to end it.
As for the borders. Dude there is no room at the inn. We cannot endlessly let every Tom, Dick and Harry into this country. Both of a criminal, national security and educational standpoint.
I am not calling for a permanent end to LEGAL immigration. But we need to secure the borders, throw out criminal invaders and sort out the huge whopping mess we have, and then, being selective, invite others to join the party. It will take time. At the end you would find we suddenly have little debt, less crime, less disease (illegals who do not go through rigourous medical checks like legal immigrants do, bring disease) and a more balanced populace, rather than a massive uneducated, poor, third class.
Does that help? Jay?
"However, they should also be free to express their culture."
Who says they're not? It's when people insist on placing the values or ideals of their culture above the one they've chosen is where I draw the line.
If your "culture" is so important to you that you place it above mine ... then you should'nt have come here to begin with.
My mother immigrated from Italy. While she keep her "culture", she readily accepted her new culture and strove to become American. She learned english and never once expected something to be written or spoken in Italian to accomodate her. She felt it was not only her obligation, but her responsibility to become "American".
I don't think we're too far apart, but anyone who comes here legally should be Americanized. Immersed in language and history classes as well. No coddling with interpretors or products written in spanish or whatever language.
If people don't want to fit in ... get the hell out.
"Sometimes I wish I was 90....."
lol ... no you don't. 19 maybe.
Oye! To be young again.
Back to the original point. Go Joe! Illegal hotline!
Afterwards I think we should start up the "Saudi financed Wahibbi hotline".
By the way ... nice comment Jenn.
I agree the hyphenated thing is a little silly, but at the same time, people shouldn't be asked to deny their heritage.
Jay
Nobody has EVER asked ANYBODY to give up their culture - the problem comes when the left insists that every culture EXCEPT the Judeo-Christian Culture be celebrated. We have traditions that, while not all are of the Judeo-Christian persuasion, were secularized so that EVERYBODY could participate in them.
Now we are being fed the bald-faced lie that they are religious (i.e. Santa Claus & the Easter Bunny) when it's a bunch of crap! Yet other obscure cultural activities are celebrated during what was once Christmas (and by this I mean parades and school pagents) or downright made-up ones (KWANSA!)
Children are no longer taught history and even in England they have removed Winston Churchill from history. Yet Mao, Stalin and Marx are taught. They do the same thing here! No child learns about the Declaration of Independance or the Constitution because of inplied references to God! Children can't even celebrate Thanksgiving because, well, WHO are they gving thanks to?
It must totally SUCK to be a kid today! I thank God I grew up when I did, so that I actually learned about my heritage and history as an American. I thank God that I was able to have fun in school! And I Thank God that even though me and my classmates were different colors and different ethnicities and probably went home and did different things when we went home, at school we were ALL AMERICANS!
How about the "lester sneaking out of the bar or bathhouse" hotline.
Wit: "It must totally SUCK to be a kid today! I thank God I grew up when I did, so that I actually learned about my heritage and history as an American."
You're right. Today's schools teach disdain for the US and praise socialism. Funny thing though ... somehow, throughout history, people have always rebelled against totalitarianism no matter how hard the leaders try to "teach" their charges to behave. Look at the USSR ... those kids were taught from day one how bad the US is and how great they were. It didn't work.
Just keep speaking up and against ... kids may not say much but some does sink in.
How about the "lester sneaking out of the bar or bathhouse" hotline.
darwin
I like that! I was wondering if he was drinking again today...
But back to folks like Jay - You know what really gets my goat, is that today in our schools they celebrate Cinco de Mayo, yet ignore Memorial Day! American flags are not allowed in school in case they 'OFFEND" somebody - yet every other flag is just peachy-keen!
It's legal to burn, urinate on, or desecrate the American flag anyway you want - but just try and burn another country's flag! Ask the guy who got arrested for burning a Mexican flag on American soil!
Firetrucks are not allowed to fly American Flags because they might "OFFEND" somebody!
Let me tell you people something! If MY FLAG OFFENDS YOU THEN GO TO A PLACE ON THIS BIG OL' EARTH WHERE THEY DON'T FLY IT!!!!
Witness,
What kind of person am I exactly? It seems as though you think I'm anti-American. I have no idea where you're getting this because I not.
In Jay's world: "All I'm saying is that based on how America was built and on how long it's existed, it doesn't have its own definitive culture in the same way that a country like Norway does, for example."
Bullshit. Come visit me in england or go to any foreign country and you will then be able to see that the US has a very distinct, American, culture.
You need to get out more son.
Jenn,
Thank you for giving me your thoughts without resorting to childish assumptions.
I'm glad you're proud to be American. Everyone should be proud of where they came from. However, not all Americans fit the criteria you laid out. I think it's great that the National Anthem moves you to tears, but if someone doesn't cry when they hear it or they don't cover their heart when they recite the pledge of allegiance it doesn't make them less American. It just makes them a different American. And I think that's what makes this country beautiful. The fact that people are free to put up a Christmas tree, wear a cross around their neck, or light a Menorah, or celebrate Kwanzza, or fast during Ramadan is part of what makes America so uniquely wonderful. So, I'm glad that you are the American you want to be. I'm also glad that the black, Muslim, homosexual, Jewish, Catholic, etc. people that I know are the Americans that they want to be.
I don't think it's realy fair of you to generalize that "the left" is trying to destroy American culture. I would agree that there are extreme groups who are trying to make American culture and eventually the world what they want it to be. These would include: some extreme Communist groups, some Christian Fundamentalist groups, Islamo-Facist groups, neo-Nazi's and any other group that says their way is right no matter what and we'll kill you if you think otherwise. Left-wing or right-wing, it doesn't matter, extreme leanings either way leads to totalitarianism. However, these groups are really the minority. Most people are center-left or center-right. I guess you could say I lean a bit more to the left, but that doesn't mean I don't respect people who lean to the right. I have a great deal of respect for people who can express their views without resorting to hate or name calling. We might not always agree, but I think that's another thing that makes America beautiful. What do you think?
I'll look forward to more of your thoughts.
Kris,
Actually, I've been to a lot of different countries and while I don't deny that there are cultural aspects that are uniquely American, I just don't think it's the same. That's all. It doesn't make it better or worse. The same goes for Canada. There are many things that are uniquely Canadian, but they, like America, just don't have the same cultural history as many other countries. That's all I'm saying.
Please don't make assumptions about me. It accomplishes nothing.
See Jay you miss the point. No one, myself included are saying that people can't be "the Americans they want to be", but they need to be American as they do it.
This "African-American", "Islamic-American" etc thing has to go.
We are free to do what we want to a point. We should still be Americans.
English should be the primary language, and across the board bashing whitey and Christianity needs to stop.
I am a tan atheist, and even I know that.
Jenn,
I didn't miss the point at all. I didn't say anybody on here said that. However, there are people who do say that. You just summed up pretty much exactly what I already said. 
I think bashing of anyone has to stop. There's no place for ethnic/religious/whatever bashing in any free society in my opinion.
I don't care if someone calls themself an African-American, a Muslim-American or a Whatever-American, but it shouldn't be enforced. If I were a "Muslim-American", I'd just say 'I'm an American if someone asked my nationality and I'd say 'I'm a Muslim' if someone asked my religion.
English is the primary language. It's just not official. I do think that people who come here with the intention of living and/or working should have to learn english. But, it doesn't bother me when I see spanish on signs here in San Diego or when a nurse speaks spanish to a patient in a hospital. As long as they're able to comunicate with me, what do I care?
What do you think?
I think you're bringing up muslims way too frequently.
There's only a small percentage of muslims here that want to be "American" and enjoy our way of life. The rest gotta go. Islam and freedom are incompatible. In addition, there are too many muslim organizations taking advantage of our laws and slowly mainstreaming islam.
Fuck islam ... it's gotta go. Not every culture is peaceful, you have to learn to differeniate between evil and good.
"But, it doesn't bother me when I see spanish on signs here in San Diego or when a nurse speaks spanish to a patient in a hospital. As long as they're able to comunicate with me, what do I care?"
I don't know why you don't care ... that's probably a sign that you've bought all that leftist multicultural bullshit. This isn't fucking Spain, and this isn't fucking mexico. If I want to be spoken to in, or hear Spanish, I'll go there.
You're part of the problem because you don't want to hold anyone to any standards ... it's that sickness of political correctness and the plague of multiculturalism.
Speak and read OUR fucking language or go home. Muslims can speak english all day long ... they still gotta go.
Darwin,
I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't agree. It's a shame, I thought you were one of the people who was willing to engage in actual debate without random hate.
Call me whatever you want, it almost certainly won't be true.
Random hate? Jesus H.
You need to understand Jay, in actual debate, you as well need to listen.
Every GD thing Darwin just said is fact.
And if you live here in SD as well and watch the same nightly news and don't see that Mt. View, Chula Juanna, Bario Logan and pretty much every Mexican dominated town south of the 8 is a gang infested hell hole with a guaranteed feature, or 10, every morning in the "crime watch" section of the Trib. then you have your head firmly planted in the sand.
As for Muslims, they are slowly enforcing Sharia law on this country. They are hired for a job. Then because of their "religion" are unable to do said job. Get fired. Sue, al la CAIR, the Muzzie ACLU.
They don't want America to exist. They want Iran West.
I make generalizations because I know and everyone else as well does, that not 100% of muzzies hate and want to kill the evil Zionist Infidels. But a fuck load of them do, and they are the ones with the swords.
"I thought you were one of the people who was willing to engage in actual debate without random hate."
See Jay, you really give yourself away. You say you want to engage in debate, yet when I give my opinions and they don't agree with yours ... you instinctively bring out that poor, tired, misued word ... "hate".
How can you have a debate when you have preset guidelines for what you'll accept? Everything you've said has been purely based on feeling without using reason or with nary a thought as how your scenarios would work in the real world.
Darwin,
"Muslims can speak english all day long ... they still gotta go."
How is this not hate?
"Islam and freedom are incompatible."
How is this not a random generalization based on hatred?
"Fuck islam ... it's gotta go."
How is this not akin to what Hitler said about the Jews?
"that's probably a sign that you've bought all that leftist multicultural bullshit."
Generalization about "leftists" and extremely xenophobic.
"I think you're bringing up muslims way too frequently."
What is the quota on this site for mentioning Muslims?
See, I am willing to debate, but how am I supposed to respond to those kind of statements? I just don't adhere to these conspiracy theories of the "inevitable Muslim takeover". It's nonsense. I realize that there are extreme Muslim groups that want to do this. Just like there are extreme groups based on many other faiths and ideologies that want to do this. However, these groups are in the minority by a very large margin.
Let me tell you a story. I have a friend who's a PhD student at a university up north. There's a Muslim professor there. A few months ago, some jerk spray painted some really horrible anti-Muslim remarks on her office door. Do you endorse this kind of behavior?
Hatred is a poison that can exist in all walks of life.
That's just how I feel. I'll look forward to your reply.
Jenn,
"Every GD thing Darwin just said is fact."
No, it isn't. It's his opinion.
"And if you live here in SD as well and watch the same nightly news and don't see that Mt. View, Chula Juanna, Bario Logan and pretty much every Mexican dominated town south of the 8 is a gang infested hell hole with a guaranteed feature, or 10, every morning in the "crime watch" section of the Trib. then you have your head firmly planted in the sand."
Actually, I've spent quite a bit of time in a lot of those areas and never had a problem. Perhaps you should actually go see something for yourself instead of basing all your opinions on the local news.
"muzzies"
I don't get why you use this word. Do you say "nigger", "spic", "cike", "cracker", etc. as well? If not, why?
"They don't want America to exist. They want Iran West."
This is true of extreme Muslim groups. Again, they are very much in the minority. That doesn't mean they're not a threat. Any and all extreme groups are a threat to peace loving people. Not just Muslim ones.
"in actual debate, you as well need to listen."
I am listening and offering my thoughts. What more could I possibly do?
"I make generalizations because I know and everyone else as well does, that not 100% of muzzies hate and want to kill the evil Zionist Infidels. But a fuck load of them do, and they are the ones with the swords."
Again, minority. There is evil everywhere Jenn. Not just within Islam.
I have a DVD of WEIRD USA it has him and i frankly support his ideas and screw the ACLU and AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL those convicts should,nt get any better treatment then the avrage citizen and absolutly no body building equepment it should all be taken out and scarpped
Jay,
You are an idiot, you have been living these past 6 years or more with your head up your ass.
Jenn,
"Every GD thing Darwin just said is fact."
Jenn is right Darwin did state the facts but your so far leftist extremism your head has gotten used to living up your ass.
Actually, I've spent quite a bit of time in a lot of those areas and never had a problem. Perhaps you should actually go see something for yourself instead of basing all your opinions on the local news.
Actually Jay you should go to Iraq and spend some time with Al Queada, Hezbalah, any of the other Muzzie Extremist and see if they cut your head off and if they don't then you have room to talk other wise just keep your bullshit mouth shut.
You keep flapping your fucken gums about them being in the minority but your so fucken brain dead that you have n't computed the fucken numbers yet have you, you fucken idiot.
I am listening and offering my thoughts. What more could I possibly do?
Your thoughts don't hold no facts, just your fucken bullshit.
This is true of extreme Muslim groups. Again, they are very much in the minority. That doesn't mean they're not a threat. Any and all extreme groups are a threat to peace loving people. Not just Muslim ones.
Oh yea tell me asswipe what other ones have been sawing off peoples heads with a dull fucken knife asswipe.
Your just a fucken apologist for the Musslim Extremists and you can kiss my ass you fucken asswipe.
Phil,
*sigh*...Whatever you say. You're entitled to your opinion. Even if it is highly illogical.
Either way, live long and prosper.
I'm an ex Corrections Officer ( medically retired) and I believe Sherrif Joe should be up for Sainthood!
Jay: "How is this not hate?"
You seem to be caught in some sort of self denial where natural instincts and emotions are verboten. The US is a sovereign country, and any threat to it's safety and sovereignty SHOULD bring out those natural instincts and "hate" is one of them.
You hate ... I hate ... everybody hates ... the problem is I recognize it and control it, whereas you refuse to acknowledge it and prance around in some fantasyland where your priority is making sure you don't feel guilty about anything.
I can certainly hate the actions, or non-actions of people, and the people themselves but still be able to differeniate between them and those who are not a danger to me and my country. I can demand that Mexico reel in it's invading horde, and I can demand that muslims worldwide take action to reel in their vicious butchering brethern. That's common sense.
Whether you realize or not ... your psyche has been successfully co-opted by the left's campaign to prevent you from acting on your gut instincts so you won't feel guilt.
Jay: "Generalization about "leftists" and extremely xenophobic."
I specifically use the term "leftist" so everyone will be sure just who I'm talking about.
You keep employing the leftist lexicon ... using words picked specifically to shut down debate instead of forwarding it.
Xenophobic means: "an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange."
Now really Jay ... the keyword here is "unreasonable". Do you think wanting to maintain our language, culture and traditions are unreasonable? Do you think wanting to keep muslims out who demand prayer areas, special treatment in work places, that islam be taught in schools, who march in our streets with signs that say "kill all Jews" and "behead those that insult islam" is unreasonable? Do you think constant lawsuits by CAIR to force us to accept the islamic way is reasonable?
The US is one of the most diverse, tolerant and free societies on the face of the earth. That doesn't mean it's an open invitation for Mexico and other countries to neglect their duties by dumping millions of people here. It also doesn't mean it's cool for Saudi financed muslims to challenge our way of life with lawsuits designed specifically to subvert our country and slowly but surely bring Sharia and islam into American mainstream. Saudi's are building mosques and schools like there's no tomorrow ... where they preach Wahibbism, the hatred of Jews and all things western. Their goal is clear to see for anyone that cares to look.
No one has an "unreasonable" fear of foreigners Jay ... I and many others and a damn reasonable understanding of what's going on ... if you do, you're afraid to admit it.
Jay,
You're entitled to your opinion. Even if it is highly illogical.
My opinion is not just an opinion it's based on facts unlike your's is based on your leftists propaganda.
I speak the truth with Logic, the Logic I speak of is called survival of the West and Israel.
Fuck The Muzzie Extremists Waste Them All.
You're entitled to walk around with your head up your ass, but the minute you leftists start hurting the United States ability to accomplish that goal in protecting the citizens of the United States and it's allies you then become a Traitor of which all Traitors to the United States should be dealt with by Hanging.
"Actually, I've spent quite a bit of time in a lot of those areas and never had a problem. Perhaps you should actually go see something for yourself instead of basing all your opinions on the local news."
What part of "I LIVE IN SD" do you not get? Of course I see it, I live in SD, I go to Coor Amp all the time, I go to Coronado, I drive down to the border. I have broken down there, and been stuck for hours, I have a few friends that live down there, and even they know what a fucking hell hole it is.
Like Carver and It's Muzzie prayer crap. Chollas View and Mt. View and the daily gang shootings. Every day... look at the crime watch page today.....dead body, drug bust protitution on El Cajon Blvd. Don't forget the dens of the Ariano Felix drug cartel better known as the Mexican mafia that are scattered about South SD.
South of the 8, is TJ North and to say any differently means you haven't once set foot there.
I too have spent a boat load of time there and never gotten shot. All of us have a little luck. You cannot deny what it is south of the 8.
Darwin,
"Do you think wanting to maintain our language, culture and traditions are unreasonable?"
No.
"Do you think wanting to keep muslims out who demand prayer areas, special treatment in work places, that islam be taught in schools, who march in our streets with signs that say "kill all Jews" and "behead those that insult islam" is unreasonable?"
No. I want everyone to be treated equally.
"Do you think constant lawsuits by CAIR to force us to accept the islamic way is reasonable?"
No.
"You hate ... I hate ... everybody hates ... the problem is I recognize it and control it, whereas you refuse to acknowledge it and prance around in some fantasyland where your priority is making sure you don't feel guilty about anything."
*sigh*...I guess you've got me figured out. Why do you keep making these huge assumptions about me? Look, I feel hate for all extremeist groups just like everyone else. But, I choose not to to throw out giant blanket statements like, "Fuck All Muslims" or "Fuck All Mexicans". And I certainly don't act on those emotions. I believe that's when things can get out of hand (ie. extremist groups). This seems to be what you're doing. You make it sound like every Mosque that goes up is a temple of hatred. This is not even close to being true. Have you actually ever been to a Mosque? Have you ever talked to any Muslim people? Perhaps you should try. I like to try and focus on the problem at hand, which is a MINORITY of these people.
I have a question as far as Americanizing people goes. I agree that anyone who comes here to live and/or work needs to learn english. But, what else do you think they should do? Learning english and joining society in a way that allows everyone to live and let live is fine by me. I'm just asking because I've seen this pop up in other comments, but nobody has really explained how they think people should be Americanized beyond learning english.
I'll look forward to your thoughts.
Beyond learning English, they should try to integrate. The left these days doesn't want integration. They want to keep the minorities and immigrants in small controlable groups.Victim groups.
For example. This morning I was listening to the Mikey Show. Rock 105.3. Always fun. Anyway they had this 15 year old kid and his mom on, who are big fans of the show.
They were talking about Vick, who has even MORE charges coming out against him and I'll tell you what, these prosecutors are feeling pretty damn sure of themselves, so they obviously have a damn good case.
Well, the kid and his mom are black. They both think he's innocent. Why?
The mom said it was because he was black that he was being prosecuted. She pulled the race card for a guy who I believe is the second highest paid football player in the NFL.
Yup he's innocent because it's just that he's black that he's being picked on.
So Mikey brings up Lohan. That shut her the hell up. You can't argue that. But she thought she could because that's what the likes of Sharpton and Jackson TELL these people to believe. If you're black, you are a victim! If you try to be successful, WHITEY WILL TAKE YOU DOWN. It's all about non integration and keeping the masses apart.
Don't believe me? Go through the My Point Radio archives and listen to a show we did with Victory Waters and Daryll, both successfull black people, who STILL think whitey is the bad guy.
Jenn,
"I too have spent a boat load of time there and never gotten shot. All of us have a little luck. You cannot deny what it is south of the 8."
Ok, cool! I apologize for implying that you've never been there. I never said there wasn't a problem. Of course any gang activity is a problem. I just think people go a little overboard sometimes, that's all.
What can we do to stop it? Not just Mexican gang activity, all of it. This would inclue any group of any ethnicity that uses violence and intimidation to achieve their goals. Whose responsibility is it to stop it?
"Like Carver and It's Muzzie prayer crap. Chollas View and Mt. View and the daily gang shootings."
How is Muslim students being allowed prayer time in a school akin to gang shootings? You don't have to agree with what Carver is doing, but please don't compare it to gang murder.
I'll look forward to your reply.
Jenn,
"Don't believe me?"
Oh no, I belive you. You'd be silly if you said that racism doesn't exist in this country, but to you use it like that is not acceptable.
So, you say integrate. That could mean a lot of things to a lot of Americans. What does it mean to you? What's your ideal vision of America?
Phil,
You seem to have it all figured out. I'll just say this:
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."
-Benjamin Franklin
Funny Jay,
You can just cherry pick quotes to suit your fancy still doesn't cut the mustard around here.
Either your with us or against us.
President George W. Bush Sept 2001.
President George W. Bush's quote is much more relevant to these times then Benjamin Franklin, I believe that Benjamin Franklin and his group were not faced with the same thing.
Jay,
Speaking of quotes maybe you can quote what the Muzzie bastards were quoting to Nick Berg when they were cutting his head off with a dull knife? hummmm ??????????
Shove it Jay.
Phil,
I don't know. They probably called him an infidel or something. But, people who do things like that are clearly not of sound mind.
Benjamin Franklin, on the other hand, was.
What's your point?
Phil,
"Either your with us or against us.
President George W. Bush Sept 2001."
Actually he said: "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists."
"I believe that Benjamin Franklin and his group were not faced with the same thing."
I think you should perhaps consider reading a history book, Phil. Franklin and his "group" dealt with oppression, murder and public execution all the time. Hence the revolution.
Jay: "Why do you keep making these huge assumptions about me?"
Because you've given me no other reason to "assume" otherwise. Everything I've posted is based on what you've written.
"No. I want everyone to be treated equally."
In the real world, that's not possible ... thanks to the diseases of political correctness and multiculturalism, we now have a population segregated by ethnicity, religion and an ever increasing number of gender types.
All have been elevated to a higher status ... vicitm ... with the exception of white males. Christian white males are on the lowest rung. As such, all other ethnicities, religions and gender types are granted exceptions and favor.
Let some Christian walk into a public school and say they'd like to teach the class about Christianity, dress up in garb of the period and recite bible passages. All hell would break loose as NEA conditioned teachers grab their assault rifles and drag the young ones to the bunkers to protect them from the "dangerous" religious "fanatics".
However, let a muslim saunter into the same school, especially if said muslim is part of a muslim "rights" lobby group, and demand the same thing and Voila! Suddenly it's ok to read from the koran ... talk about allah ... tell kids how "glorious" islam is.
No equality ... separate and distinct classes with victim classes holding favor over all others.
To make a very long story short, common sense has been disabled, and islam and the left have teamed up to impose their totalitarian view on the rest of us.
"But, I choose not to to throw out giant blanket statements like, "Fuck All Muslims" or "Fuck All Mexicans"."
Good for you ... I'm sure you sleep well at nite.
"This seems to be what you're doing. You make it sound like every Mosque that goes up is a temple of hatred. This is not even close to being true."
I've never seen any evidence that would suggest otherwise. Visit mosques often do you?
"Have you actually ever been to a Mosque? Have you ever talked to any Muslim people?"
No, never visited a mosque. You ever been in a Catholic Church?
Yes, I have talked to muslims. I've talked to men and women. Although they will say they reject terrorism, they do not reject islamic expansionism (or imperialism if you will), and when cornered, will ultimately blame the west for the problems of the islamic world ...
That aside, there are a few very brave muslims who have come out and fight not only terror, but the totalitarian version of islam that is creeping across the globe.
They are too few, and we need more like them. A handful out of 1.5 billion isn't very optimistic.
"I have a question as far as Americanizing people goes ... But, what else do you think they should do?"
Uh ... besides a thorough understanding of our history, not taught by some leftist revisionist, whatever they like as long as they place the interests of the US first. They do whatever it takes. They're not in Kansas anymore ... they've chosen to come here.
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."
Those who fail to acknowledge threats to the nation will soon not have a nation or live free ... and deserve neither.
-darwin,
Jay,
I don't know. They probably called him an infidel or something. But, people who do things like that are clearly not of sound mind.
You don't remember them saying Ala Akbar and all that other shit.
Ahh so People who do things like that are clearly not of sound mind, that is what it is huh not a thing to do with whether they are Evil????
Come on now I'm waiting for an answer to that one.
Benjamin Franklin, on the other hand, was what???? Let me see how about a quiz was he Evil or Good??? Come on an easy 50/50 chance to get it right.
I think you should perhaps consider reading a history book, Phil. Franklin and his "group" dealt with oppression, murder and public execution all the time. Hence the revolution.
The oppression such as we the United States Citizens being under the Oppression by England at the time?? Hum???
Well for anyone committing murder the sentence was public execution. What do you expect them to do to someone who committed murder, lock them up for life with a lifetime subscription to the Gray Wall Motel's health spa club.
The Revolution was to free the slaves that so many of the African Tribes in Africa had sold their own people into slavery, period end of story.
For that their is no dispute case closed.
The first sentence in Jay's first comment here was, "America has not been around nearly long enough to have developed it's own definitive culture."
Please tell us, what the minimum time requirement is to establish our own definitive culture? Is this written down in a cultural development manual somewhere? I need to get a copy of that.
I'll look forward to your thoughts.
Jay,
I don't know. They probably called him an infidel or something. But, people who do things like that are clearly not of sound mind.
You don't remember them saying Ala Akbar and all that other shit.
Ahh so People who do things like that are clearly not of sound mind, that is what it is huh not a thing to do with whether they are Evil????
Come on now I'm waiting for an answer to that one.
Benjamin Franklin, on the other hand, was what???? Let me see how about a quiz was he Evil or Good??? Come on an easy 50/50 chance to get it right.
Corrected version from above, I tell you you libturds make me so fucken pissed by your "Cut & Run" Bull shit that I get way ahead of myself.
The Revolution war was to eliminate
the oppression such as we the United States Citizens being under the Oppression by England at that time.
Well for anyone committing murder the sentence was public execution. What do you expect them to do to someone who committed murder, lock them up for life with a lifetime subscription to the Gray Wall Motel's health spa club.
The Civil War was to free the slaves that so many of the African Tribes in Africa had sold their own people into slavery, period end of story.
For that their is no dispute case closed.
Phil,
I never said anything about "Cut and Run". I don't think that's a good idea. I don't understand where you got that.
I know what the American Revolution and Cival War were about. What's your point?
Did I say the person who cut off Nick Berg's head wasn't evil? Of course that's evil! It's also insane!
Of course Benjamin Franklin wasn't evil. Again, what's your point?
Jay,
I will be more than glad to tell you my point when you can tell me your point by constantly being obstinate about why you worry so about why we use the term "Muzzies". When you present yourself in such a manner as to make that some big thing you clearly are putting your self into the category of being a far leftist.
Henry,
There's no need for sarcasm. All I mean is that America doesn't have the same cultural history as most other countries. The same goes for Canada. There obviously isn't a specific time frame for a country to develop its own definitive culture. I'm just saying the cultural history isn't there in the same way. Nothing more.
I realize in previous comments I said things like 'America doesn't have its own definitive culture'. I shouldn't have made such a black and white statement. I realize that there are cultural aspects that are uniquely American. However, I stand by my statement that America and Canada do not have the same cultural history as most other coutries.
I don't think this is anti-American.
Jay,
You can argue the rest of this all out with Darwin and the rest, I need a break from all this crap, I have been arguing with Libturds all damn day from 3 to 4 other blogs at one time. I can't handle any more stress than I have already had, I am going on a break for now.
Phil,
So, because I don't like the word "Muzzies", this makes me a far left nut? I'm sorry Phil, that doesn't make any sense.
Ok Phil,
Enjoy your break and be well.
Tell you what, when the day comes that it's as bad for a black person to say nigger as it is for a white person to use it, then I'll stop calling muzzies muzzies. Deal.
I thought the "N" word thing was dead? Right? Didn't they have a funeral and casket and all?
The Revolution was to free the slaves that so many of the African Tribes in Africa had sold their own people into slavery, period end of story.
For that their is no dispute case closed.
Phil
Uh - Phil, dear - that was the Civil War. The Revolution was about the taxation without representation thing.
Hi Miss Jenn, Darwin - you both have made awesome points!
I've been reading all the comments and I think Jay is a lost cause. Too polluted by PCBS!
AHHHHHHH! Happy Hour! cchhsssttt! That was me opening my first beer!
Witness,
You didn't read the one below that. I had made that correction.
Sorry Phil - You're right, I did miss it...
Witness,
"I think Jay is a lost cause. Too polluted by PCBS!"
I'm not a lost cause. I'm just different from you. This does not make me anti-American. It just makes me different. Do you understand this? I don't even know what PCBS is. I don't watch TV. I almost never listen to talk radio of any kind. I read a lot. Why do you people keep assuming I'm something that I'm not? Is it so hard for you to accept someone who's different? Are the only good Americans the ones who think exactly as you do? Clearly you and I think differently, but I don't believe you to be a bad American. That wouldn't make any sense.
Jenn,
"Tell you what, when the day comes that it's as bad for a black person to say nigger as it is for a white person to use it, then I'll stop calling muzzies muzzies. Deal."
You're free to say whatever you want. I'm just stating my opinion that I don't like the word. I believe that anybody using the word "nigger" is unacceptable, including black people. So, I don't use it. There are some in society who don't think that, but I choose not to be dictated by what other people think. The same goes for any other derogatory remark. But, that's a matter of perception. If I think something is derogatory, I don't say it. If you think a word is bad, don't use it. If you don't think it's bad, feel free to use it. But, think about why you're using it. Do you use it for the sole purpose of offending people? If so, what's that point of that? What does it accomplish? You're doing nothing but upsetting people.
I just don't get your point. The condensed version of everything you've written is you just want people to be nice to one another.
Great! Who doesn't? Being nice does not automatically mean that niceness will be returned. One must be prepared for when it isn't.
Just how do you want to handle the problems affecting the US though?
How do you want to handle illegals and border security?
How do you want to handle the growing muslim presence that grows bolder every day in it's demands?
Just be nice and hope for the best?
Darwin,
Finally! A comment that doesn't involve assuming I'm a crazy leftist nut.
"Just how do you want to handle the problems affecting the US though?"
As far as the war goes, I believe war should always be an absolute last resort. World War II is an example of a war that had to be fought. I don't believe this is the case with the war in Iraq. The people running this war say it's about fighting terrorism and liberating the Iraqi people. If this is what they are concerned with, why haven't they stepped into Darfur or pretty much all of Africa for that matter? I don't think the people in charge of this war could really care less about the Iraqi people. However, cutting and running at this point would not be a good idea. We got into it and it's important that at this point we try to at least create some kind of stability. But, I don't think we should have gone there in the first place.
"How do you want to handle illegals and border security?"
I agree that this is a problem. However, I think the idea of "roundin' 'em up and shippin' 'em out" is pretty stupid. We're talking about something like 12 million people. I believe that most people just want to provide for their family. I don't see why this would be any different for Mexican people. I realize that there are bad people from all walks of life who take advantage, but I honestly believe that most of the Mexicans who come up here to work just want to feed their family. If they were able to do this in Mexico most of them wouldn't come here illegally in the first place. Why don't we help Mexico to become a more sustainable nation? We're supposed to be all about helping nations that don't have the same opportunities as us. I mean, that's why we're in Iraq, right?
"How do you want to handle the growing muslim presence that grows bolder every day in it's demands?"
I don't care how many Muslims come here. As far as demands go, I would say the same thing as I would about any other religious demands (which do exist by the way. It's not just Muslims). Keep it out of public schools and the workplace. Whatever religion you follow, feel free to worship how ever you want in your home or religious facility. Feel free to pray in a public park or wear your religious clothing at work and in your day to day life. Don't bring worship to the work place and don't try to impose it on other people. There are obviously varying degrees of acceptable worship in the workplace. For example, saying 'thank God it's lunchtime' or 'praise Allah, I got a raise' are fine by me. But, when people try to impose their beliefs on people or allow their beliefs to interfere with the job, this is a problem. For example, the Muslim taxi driver who refused to take customers who had alcohol on them and the Christian pharmacist who refused to sell the morning after pill. I don't think this is acceptable. Feel free to denouce alcohol and the morning after pill all you want, but don't refuse it to people who don't share your beliefs.
These are just my opinions. I welcome anyone's arguments and/or disagreements. That is, after all part of what makes America great. But please, don't call me a traitor, anti-American or anything like that because it won't be true. I'm just a person who has some thoughts and ideas. My opinion has been changed by people in the past, but not because they called me a name. In the end, I just want the same thing that most people want: Peace, love and happiness. It's just a matter of all peace loving people agreeing how to achieve it. That's the tricky part.
I'll look forward to your thoughts.
"However, I think the idea of "roundin' 'em up and shippin' 'em out" is pretty stupid."
There's no need to round them up ... simply enforce our existing laws, go after businesses that hire and discontinue any and all benefits that illegals receive with the exception of medical care in life and death circumstances.
If there's no work, no benefits ... the great majority will go home. Any others will eventually be deported.
"Why don't we help Mexico to become a more sustainable nation?"
Mexico has two beautiful coastlines, great weather, abundant oil and natural resources. Why in the hell can't they do it on their own? Send their people home and let the people riot for all I care. The government is corrupt and the cartels run it.
"I don't care how many Muslims come here."
Man ... I'm just, well ... flabbergasted.
Why in the hell do you want to turn the US into a third rate hellhole. I give a shit about what children have to face growing up here. I don't want thme to drive around the country and have to either avoid muslim enclaves,, or learn spanish just to be able to traverse the US.
*sigh*
Most muslims aren't coming here for our freedoms and perks. Any that are here and do want to enjoy our way of life are being pressured to stay quiet, join the fold of ever increasing radicals and segregate themselves from mainstream American life.
Look, there's a subversive Saudi backed presence in the US and anyone who cares to look will see it. The goal is subversion through intimidation by using our laws against us.
Of every group of people that inhabit the earth, there is only one ideology that does not mix peacefully with any other, and never has.
Your sentiments are fine and dandy and I wish it could be that easy, but you really need to start separating your ideals from reality.
Do some research ...
Jay: As far as the war goes - Iraq s just one of the fronts we are fighting. It doesn't matter what America thinks (or rather what the MSM wants us to think), what matters is what the islamofacists think - and they have told us that they think that this is ther MAIN theatre of action! Should we not answer their challenge? Not according to the libs! We should just talk and talk and roll over and capitulate - the same policy they utilized under the threat of world wide communism until Ronald Regan came into office and said, "We win. They Lose". And guess what? They lost!
Personally I'm tired of the question! Fight the war - what we are doing now is whck a mole. Stuff it. Call in the B-2 bombers! Level the place. Although, at this point Idon't thing we need to. The Iragi's seem to have gotten the message and are starting to turn the tide on their own. It's about damned time!
To the illegal invader issue - enough of that nonsense! These are not people who are staving even in their own countires. What they want is the free-bees! Free health care, free education, free food and free housing - all the while worikng illegally (probably under somebody else's identity) under a 5 to 7 year plan, sending money back to their families so they can enter the corrupt system that is running the damned place n the first place!
I'm tired of subsidizing these people! EVERYBODY IS!!!!! When you have 92% of the population wanting something done about this it tells you that this is across the political board (assuming the country is split 50 - 50 idealogically)
These people have homes! These people will self deport if you deny then the opportunites to self enrich! It's already happening in Georgia and Oklahoma! Theay are selling off their property so they can go back HOME!
As to the muzzies - scrwe them! They have declared jihad on America. Jihad can be interpreted as "RESISTANCE"! These people are resisting our way of life! They are resisting our culture! They are doing just what they said they would do - they are using our laws and courts against us to impose their Sharia law upon us.
I will even give you an example - ritual foot baths are being installed in numorous college campus' all over the country in order to accomodate "muzzies!" Prayer rooms are also being established in same college campus' even though a cross was taken out of a chapel on a Virginia campus for fear of "offending" people.
It has gotten so bad that an organization that I totally loathe (Americans for the Separation for Church and State) has actually gotten involved to say - Ah -NO! You stop this shit NOW!
These people have been worst enemy of Christians across the country and even THEY (unlike the ACLU) see the bias!
You made mention of business' that refused business to people based of religious beliefs - BIG DEAL! The defference in business is that you have the option of going to another business that meets your needs. Same goes for folks that want to deal only with a business that caters to their needs and beliefs. It's called free enterprise.
I like my country the way it is - and I don't want any asshat socialist to impose amenesty to a bunch of housebreakers, social engineers, cultural deconstructionists or any other entity that wants to kill my country.
Nuff said!
"I believe that most people just want to provide for their family. I don't see why this would be any different for Mexican people."
It shouldn't... but MEXICAN PEOPLE should provide in MEXICO.
This here is America.
Oh, and Jay I feel naughty. Nigger, Wop, Spic, Chink, Cracker.
Damn I feel better. My inner racist was dying.
I wish all of you the best. If I see any of you on the street I will almost certainly smile. The same way I'll smile at a Muslim person, a black person, a Mexican person, an Asian person, or any other person because I care about people and I refuse to live my life in fear (which some of you call reality).
Most of what you people are saying amounts to nothing more than conspiracy theory. You seem to think that if you thought it up, it must be true. People on here claim their opinions to be fact. How can one possibly engage in discussion with someone like that? I base my thoughts and opinions on extensive research of history, actual news (which doesn't include any of the major American news networks) and being heavily involved in my community. I don't claim to have all the answers. I know that I'm almost certainly wrong about some things, but so are you people. I know that I'm almost certainly right about some things, as are you people. However, it seems that on this blog the mentality is that you people are right about everything and if someone has a differing opinion they must be part of the great "leftist conspiracy to destroy America". This is quite simply, not true. Absolutist thinking like this is, in fact, about as un-American as it gets.
Peace, love and happiness to all of you. You could certainly use it.
Jay: "People on here claim their opinions to be fact. How can one possibly engage in discussion with someone like that?"
Maybe that's because people have posted facts ... which you keep ignoring. I haven't seen you post anything but opinion. How can one possibly engage in discussion with someone like that?"
"I base my thoughts and opinions on extensive research of history, actual news (which doesn't include any of the major American news networks) and being heavily involved in my community."
You haven't posted anything that required extensive research. All you've said in a nutshell is that you don't care what happens to the US because you just want everybody to be happy ... no matter what the consequences.
Look at Europe ... especially the UK. Is that what you want? The Brits have been so tamed they're quickly losing their national identity. They bend over backwards to kiss muslim ass even while the muslims are trying to kill them.
Post some facts ... rebutt our claims, do something besides telling me that smiling at everyone is the answer.
Jay: "The same way I'll smile at a Muslim person, a black person, a Mexican person, an Asian person, or any other person because I care about people and I refuse to live my life in fear (which some of you call reality)."
Your "caring" has reached a point where you sacrifice the national good for it. Disregard for American citizens and the well being of the US in favor of others is really a little over the top isn't it?
There you go again using the leftist word play with the "living in fear" bit. Concern for the well being of my country is not fear.
I do have one question for you ... you stated that yes, something should be done about illegal immigration, so I take it you don't think we should have half of central and South America flooding in here.
Then you said you don't care how many muslims come here. Is there a reason you differeniate between the two?
Darwin,
Nobody has posted any facts on here, including myself. It's all opinion.
"Look at Europe"
A lot of European countries are great places to live. You may not agree with the politics, but you live here.
"Disregard for American citizens and the well being of the US in favor of others is really a little over the top isn't it?"
Yeah, it is. Good thing I don't do that.
"Concern for the well being of my country is not fear."
You're right, it's not. I just fail to see how someone thinking that the vast majority of Muslims want to kill Americans and steal our way of life isn't living in fear. This is not true.
"You haven't posted anything that required extensive research. All you've said in a nutshell is that you don't care what happens to the US because you just want everybody to be happy ... no matter what the consequences."
Actually, that isn't what I've said at all. But, I've given up trying to convince you people of that. I care deeply about what happens to America, but I'm not willing to blow up vast populations of innocent people for it. I'm not willing to step on someone else for my own personal gain. I believe the only focus should be destroying the source of the problem. This is not the Muslim religion in and of itself. It is the minority of extremists who have filled innocent Muslims minds with propaganda and hatred. You get rid of that source and then you're getting somewhere. This is significantly more difficult, but I believe it's the right way to go about it.
"I do have one question for you ... you stated that yes, something should be done about illegal immigration, so I take it you don't think we should have half of central and South America flooding in here.
Then you said you don't care how many muslims come here. Is there a reason you differeniate between the two?"
I don't care how many people from anywhere want to come here legally. So, I don't differenciate between the two. I embrace diversity. I want people from all cultures to be able to come here and live their lives as Americans if the want to.
Illegal immigration is a problem because it really does very little for the American economy. However, I go back to finding the source of the problem. Why do people do this? They certainly don't risk their lives walking across the desert sole purpose of destroying America. So, why do you think it happens? Perhaps we should have a lot less red tape in the legal immigration process. Just some thoughts. What do you think is the source of the problem? How would you go about fixing it?
I love my country. I love living here. I love that I walk around and see people from all walks of life. I love that I live next door to a Catholic church and that there's a Mosque a few blocks down the street. There aren't very many other countries where you can say this. I love living like this and I want it to continue. There are problems, but I believe we need to find the source of them and solve them from there with as little violence as possible.
Jay: "This is not the Muslim religion in and of itself. It is the minority of extremists who have filled innocent Muslims minds with propaganda and hatred."
Please ... enough. There are approximately 1.5 billion muslims. If your minority is 10%, that's 150,000,000 extremists. That leaves 900,000,000 muslims who apparently are just sitting back watching the show as the world is engulfed in terror and the creep of islamic law. The world is waiting for these "moderate" muslims to do something.
The muslim religion IS the source for the propaganda that the 150,000,000 minority of extremists use to fill innocent minds.
Extremism and islam are not exclusive ... they go hand in hand. Islam was started by an extremist. What you see today is an attempt to revive the old islamic empire, the Ottoman empire. It was dealt a critical but unfortunately not fatal blow during WWI and went through a somewhat silent period but is now ramping up to regain that empire.
Islam is not static and never has been. It's aim is conquest, expansion and conversion or death.
Those are facts ... and they don't come from any book, they come from the islamists themselves. If you can't take them at their word ... then I don't know what else to say.
"However, I go back to finding the source of the problem. Why do people do this?"
Because we've been stupid and haven't enforced our laws. If you could just walk across the border and suddenly have access to all kinds of free stuff ... who wouldn't?
It's a silly question really ... they simply followed the easiest path and now we're dealing with the results of our incompetency.
"I embrace diversity."
Oh fuck me ...
The day will come when you kick yourself in the ass for falling for such tripe. Only stupid, guilt-ridden white people embrace diversity. People are people and should be judged on the content of their character and their actions, not where the fuck they came from and the amount of pigment their skin retains. Right now you're nothing but a racist who determines peoples qualifications for coming here by the color of their skin and nationality.
To simply want others here because they are "different" is mind bogglingly naive and dumb.
"Perhaps we should have a lot less red tape in the legal immigration process. Just some thoughts. What do you think is the source of the problem? How would you go about fixing it?"
You really are nuts. Less red tape? How about shutting the door period? If we let anyone in at all we should be extremely selective about it. Only those who benefit the US, not those who benefit from us.
A fix? Military on the border until whatever solution is arrived at to permanently secure BOTH borders and our coasts. Stop all immigration until we can assess just exactly who is here. Stop all benefits to illegals, punish any business that hires. Immediately deport any illegal in our penal system.
After we've inventoried our population, we work on fixing internal problems ... then, and only then do we even think about reopening immigration.
"I love that I live next door to a Catholic church and that there's a Mosque a few blocks down the street."
How quaint ... probably won't be long before the church is taken over and converted to a mosque ... just like in Europe!
"There aren't very many other countries where you can say this."
Yeah, no shit ... and if we don't get a handle on things, you won't be saying it for long. Just why exactly do you think we're so disliked in the world? Get a grip.
"There are problems, but I believe we need to find the source of them and solve them from there with as little violence as possible."
Who said anything about violence? Stop undesirables from coming here and deport the ones here already.
Darwin,
I've tried to engage in civil conversaion with you and received nothing but broad assumptions about my character which are simply not true.
Pretty everything you just said is completely wrong and amounts to nothing more than conspiracy theory by an angry, grossly misinformed fear monger. I don't want to let people here simply because they are different. I didn't say anything of the sort. You jumped to that ridiculous conclusion because you are a narrow-minded fool. I don't claim to have all the answers, but that's the difference between you and me, isn't it? You claim that your opinions are facts, when they're not. I claim that my opinions are opinions because that's what they are. You, on the other hand, are an absolutist thinker and therefore, un-American. You don't love this country. You're infatuated with what you think it should be and if someone disagrees with you, you think they're clearly anti-American and should "get the fuck out".
Jay: "Pretty everything you just said is completely wrong and amounts to nothing more than conspiracy theory by an angry, grossly misinformed fear monger."
Damn ... there's that leftist lexicon again ... "fear monger". To clarify, I'm not calling YOU a leftist, simply pointing out that you have a habit of using phrases and words typically used by the left.
Please point out what I've said that's "completely wrong" and disprove it. Is that too much too ask?
"You claim that your opinions are facts, when they're not."
You have every opportunity to prove otherwise.
"You, on the other hand, are an absolutist thinker and therefore, un-American."
I believe you're projecting. I also didn't know that my thinking had to conform to a specific type to be deemed American. I'll keep that in mind.
"You're infatuated with what you think it should be and if someone disagrees with you, you think they're clearly anti-American and should "get the fuck out"."
I clearly am opinionated, but I form my opinions on facts, not feel good ideolgy. I've never called you anti-American, or told you to get the fuck out.
Sorry you're upset that I don't buy your wonderous world where everyone gets along and Rodney King is President.
Jay: "I've tried to engage in civil conversaion with you and received nothing but broad assumptions about my character which are simply not true."
Nothing? You've received nothing but assumptions about your character? I think I've hammered out a little more than that.
You keep saying that but I just have no way of making any assumptions about your character except from the stuff you post here.
Feel free to tell me about your character if my comments bother you so much.
Darwin,
Rodney King? Seriously, where do you get this stuff?
Saying that Islam=hate is not a fact. It's a broad generalization.
You said that Islam was started by and extremist. This is true. But, it's also true of pretty much every other religion. In his time, Jesus was as much of an extreme radical as one could be. This is the case with political revolutions as well. The American Revolution was led by radical extremists. As was pretty much every other revolution of any kind throughout history. Revolution cannot exist without a new ideology. That ideology cannot exist without a person or persons who believe in it absolutely. This, by definition, is an extremist.
As to my character, I'm just a person. I love learning from different cultures. I want peace. I don't want to stamp out any one culture. That would be hate, there's not denying it. I want to learn how to live in peace amongst all people. I can't prove that that's possible, but you can't prove it isn't. So,I'm going to continue being an accepting person while denouncing people all people who want to kill and/or destroy the lives of peace loving people.
Here ya go Jay ... just a prelude of things to come.
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/...or-koran-abuse/
Jay: "I don't want to stamp out any one culture."
Of course not. There's no reason to want to stamp out any peaceful culture.
However, there is one culture that would like to stamp out all others.
Rational people must recognize that and do the stamping first. If not, the above link is nothing compared to what can and probably will happen.
More unreasonable muslim demands ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/
pages...in_page_id=1811
More caving in ...
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/..._Obsession&
only
CAIR is thrilled ...
http://www.cair.com/default.asp?...4660&
theType=NB
Darwin,
I don't condone any of that behavior, but these are all isolated incidents. These people do not represent the vast majority of Muslims. You're looking at isolated incidents and generalizing that all Muslims are like this. Throwing somebody's Quran in the toilet is a hate-crime. Throwing sombody's Bible in the toilet is also a hate-crime. Any act of vandalism or violence (physical or verbal) against someone because of who they are is a hate-crime.
Back to generalizations, there are many radical Christian groups in this country that commit horrible atrocities (ie. murdering abortion doctors). Am I to assume that all Christians are like this?
Jay: "Throwing somebody's Quran in the toilet is a hate-crime."
No ... it isn't. This is insane. You can't penalize someone "extra" based on their dislike for someone or something, no matter what they did. You prosecute for vandalism or destruction of private property ... but not for "hate".
Fucking insanity.
"Hate crime" is merely another method the left/islam uses to elevate it's various groups to even more exalted victim status and grant them more rights than the average citizen.
Why should someone who commits assault be penalized harsher if they assault someone who has been designated as a "special victim"?
So ... a black guy can beat the fuck out of a black guy, but if he beats the fuck outta a white guy he gets even harsher punishment. Right? Isn't that the way it works?
It's all designed to subjugate.
Jay again: "Back to generalizations, there are many radical Christian groups in this country that commit horrible atrocities (ie. murdering abortion doctors). Am I to assume that all Christians are like this?"
Oh please ... many radical Christian groups? Care to name them? Horrible atrocities? Like sawing heads off? Baking children in ovens? Burying women up to their necks and stoning them? Dropping brick walls on gays? Drilling holes in someones ribs? You mean atrocities like that?
I think the number of abortion providers killed was in the single digits ... and attributable to the same amount of people. Plus it was 30 years ago. Got anything more recent?
Yeah Jay ... a handful of nuts compared to 150,000,000 radical muslims. That I'm sure is a very conservative estimate.
Go ahead and assume whatever you want. Actions speak much, much louder than words.
We can end this right now Jay ... just show me anything that proves islam is a religion of peace. Don't you think it odd that that nearly every trouble spot in the world has an islamic cause behind it? Why do muslims kill buddhists in Thailand? I mean c'mon now ... buddhists? Why do they decapitate Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia? Is this what they do prior to becoming nice and peaceful?
And why Jay ... do muslims sue average citizens for reporting suspicious behavior? Is that because they're peaceful? I mean, they couldn't possibly have ulterior motives could they? Nah ... not muslims, they're peaceful.
BOOM!
"Throwing sombody's Bible in the toilet is also a hate-crime."
lol ... oh my that's funny. I'd love to see that one. It'll never happen ... and shouldn't.
Darwin,
"Why should someone who commits assault be penalized harsher if they assault someone who has been designated as a "special victim"?"
I never said they should. You're assuming again. But, if somebody assaults someone because they're gay, for example, that's a hate-crime. The reason the crime was committed is because the criminal hates gay people. I never said anything about harsher penalties. Why do you continue to jump to these conclusions?
"just show me anything that proves islam is a religion of peace."
Here's a good article which explains that Islam is a religion built on peace and that the extremists like Osama bin Laden distort it for their own purposes: http://www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org/
pe...ceful~islam.htm
An article about a group of Muslims working towards moderation and peaceful co-existence: http://findarticles.com/p/articl...04/
ai_n13634134
Some interesting statistics about American Muslims: http://www.theamericanmuslim.org...ighbors/
0014257
More interesting statistics: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/483/...uslim-
americans
It's pretty clear that most American Muslims are peace loving people who just want to be able to live their lives here... just like you.
Jay: "The reason the crime was committed is because the criminal hates gay people. I never said anything about harsher penalties."
Hate Crime Sentencing Enhancement Act (1994)
"The Hate Crime Sentencing Enhancement Act, enacted in 28 U.S.C. § 944 note Sec. 280003, requires the United States Sentencing Commission to increase the penalties for hate crimes"
"It's pretty clear that most American Muslims are peace loving people who just want to be able to live their lives here... just like you."
Your links mean nothing. I said actions speak louder than words. I see very little action by muslims to stop their radical brethern, but see increased action aimed towards intimidating Americans through legal action to either prevent Americans from speaking up or allowing muslims to impose their beliefs on the American public.
Let me be clear ... there are some muslims actively engaged in stopping the islamic totalitarianism creeping into the US. They have been threatened and intimidated. The US media is complicit by failing to report on the activities of these organizations by using the excuse that they don't want foment fear or instigate any sort of retaliation against muslims.
That's utter bullshit. They're allowing the radicalism to flourish simply because they've been intimidated by lawsuits that use as a pretense your favorite term ... hate crimes.
The US media does not want to be held responsible for stirring the pot so it does nothing.
So ... through legislation passed by an inept Congress and inaction by a criminally lax media, Americans have been intimidated into a position of not being able to do anything for fear of lawsuits or jail.
I'm not sure if you read the links you provide or not ... but the mission statement of one group validates what I've been saying about Saudi Wahhibism and militant islam in the US. It's dominant, it's intimidating, it's pervasive and subversive and it has one goal in mind.
"Founded in Washington, DC in 2004, the Center for Islamic Pluralism (CIP) is a think tank that challenges the dominance of American Muslim life by militant Islamist groups."
Keyword DOMINANCE
Further more, they specifically cite Saudi wahhibism and associated organizations in America in a section titled "WahhabiWatch" ...
"CIP WahhabiWatch is a continuing, Friday feature produced by the Center for Islamic Pluralism. It exposes and comments on the activities of the “Wahhabi lobby” presently dominating Islam in America – specifically:"
-the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR),
-the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA),
-the Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada (MSA),
-the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA),
-the Muslim American Society (MAS),
-the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC),
-the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC),
-the Arab American Institute (AAI).
Darwin,
"Founded in Washington, DC in 2004, the Center for Islamic Pluralism (CIP) is a think tank that challenges the dominance of American Muslim life by militant Islamist groups."
"CIP WahhabiWatch is a continuing, Friday feature produced by the Center for Islamic Pluralism. It exposes and comments on the activities of the “Wahhabi lobby” presently dominating Islam in America – specifically:"
-the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR),
-the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA),
-the Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada (MSA),
-the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA),
-the Muslim American Society (MAS),
-the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC),
-the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC),
-the Arab American Institute (AAI).
I think you may be the one who needs to improve your reading comprehension. Both of those quotes specifically state that the CIP is challenging (ie. working to put a stop to) the dominant tendencies of militant Islamic groups and those other organizations.
Darwin,
"Hate Crime Sentencing Enhancement Act (1994)"
I am aware of the existence of this act. However, I have not once said anything about agreeing with it. You just want me to fit the mold of a stereotypical liberal so badly that you assumed I support it. Grow up!
"Your links mean nothing."
No, they don't. You asked me to "show you anything that proves Islam is a religion of peace". Face it Darwin, I've done that. The first article alone proves this by quoting passages directly from the Quran. However, you are far too caught up in your own little world of pre-conceived ideas about people to see this. Again, I really think you should consider practising basic reading comprehension.
I sincerely hope you're enjoying your life mired in anger and paranoia. LOOK OUT!!! THERE'S A MUSLIM BEHIND YOU!!!!!
Nice attempt at rationalizing and inputing your own words.
"challenges the dominance of American Muslim life by militant Islamist groups"
"on the activities of the “Wahhabi lobby” presently dominating Islam in America"
They aren't referring to "the dominant tendencies", they're referring to militant islam being dominant.
But seeing as you have a hard time believing me, no matter what I provide, just read the following article ... by a muslim who happens to be the executive director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism.
http://www.nationalreview.com/
co...wartz063003.asp
In any case, it's becoming apparent that nothing will open your eyes because you don't want them open.
Jay of "why won't you just believe me and just ignore what's going on around you" fame: "Face it Darwin, I've done that. The first article alone proves this by quoting passages directly from the Quran."
Ah yes! Of course! How could I be so foolish? If only I had read those passages from the koran. Instead, I foolishly looked at the events transpiring around the world and drew a conclusion.
How could I ever have assumed that islam is a problem just because anywhere on the globe where there are muslims, there are problems? Not to mention death and destruction.
Thanks Jay ... from now on I'll ignore what's right in front of my face and stick to believing what the koran says.
Sheeeeeeesh ... I'm done with you on this subject.
Oh ... as for this:
"I am aware of the existence of this act. However, I have not once said anything about agreeing with it. You just want me to fit the mold of a stereotypical liberal so badly that you assumed I support it. Grow up!"
I think you're the one who needs reading comprehension classes ... and you're doing quite a fine job of fitting into that mold without any help from me. You may never have said you agree with it, but you never said you disagreed with it either.
I don't know what mold you popped out of ... whichever one it is you formed improperly. Maybe you should try a new one.
Darwin,
You asked me to prove that Islam is a religion of peace. I did!
I did what you asked me to do. You are the one who needs to open your eyes. You want the religion of Islam to be abolished (ie. mass genocide of all Muslims who refuse to adhere to your narrow minded view of what people should be), and yet, you claim that you don't hate. According to Hitler, the Jews were trying to put a strangle hold on the economy. Oh, he had several peices of "evidence", just like you. How is what you're saying any different? You are generalizing that all Muslims are enemies of "freedom". Bullshit! You just can't live your life without having a generalized group of enemies. If you were living in Germany in the '30's, you would be saying this same shit about the Jews because living in fear and blaming others is easier than actually finding the truth. Meanwhile, millions of people die because you're afraid.
I proved what you asked me to prove Darwin. Please, I beg you to step out of your box and realize what it is you should actually be fearing.
"You want the religion of Islam to be abolished"
That would certainly be one solution. The reality is islam wants all other religions abolished.
"and yet, you claim that you don't hate."
I did? But since when does the desire for the survival of western world turn into hate? Oh yeah ... that's right, when it's fits your agenda.
"Oh, he had several peices of "evidence", just like you."
So ... you say the ongoing efforts to islamize our public institutions, intimidate our citizens, 9-11, 7-7, Bali, Beslan, Darfur, on-going slaughter in Thailand and Indonesia and all the attempts at mass murder that have been stopped by authorities aren't evidence? I can post many, many more if you'd like.
"You are generalizing that all Muslims are enemies of "freedom". Bullshit!"
I've never said that. I will say that islam itself cannot survive in freedom, hence the ongoing efforts to destroy it.
"If you were living in Germany in the '30's, you would be saying this same shit about the Jews because living in fear and blaming others is easier than actually finding the truth."
I'm really not sure how you can come to that conclusion because if that mindset exists in America, every muslims living here would have been killed after 9-11. In a testament to our great restraint and willingness to accept at face value what we were told ... nary a single hair on the head of any muslim was harmed.
Your reasoning grows more tortured with each post.
"Meanwhile, millions of people die because you're afraid."
What? I've thought for a while either you've got a screw loose or you're being disingenuous about who you are.
Look Jay ... the west has literally bent over backwards to give muslims a chance to reel in their own and clean house. It ain't happening is it? With the exception of a handful of muslims and survival tactics by some islamic governments ... muslims aren't doing jack shit.
If one were to accept everything you've said Jay, one would believe there are around 900,000,000 peaceful muslims out there who are just waiting on the west to deal with the radical element so they can just get on with their peaceful lives.
Everyone has been complicit in allowing islam to advance to the stage it has. Muslims, Europe, the US, Russia ... everybody. The greatest responsibility however falls on muslims themselves to police their own. Until they do, why should I believe anything you say and disbelieve my own eyes?
Actions Jay, they speak louder than anything your koran says.
Darwin,
You asked me to prove that Islam is a religion of peace. I did just that! You are too afraid to admit this.
"That would certainly be one solution. The reality is islam wants all other religions abolished."
No, that is not the reality you narrow minded half-wit. But, if you want to look at it technically, all religions state that they are right and to go out and convert people. Your point is meaningless.
"muslims aren't doing jack shit."
What exactly are they supposed to do? They're just as afraid as you are.
"I'm really not sure how you can come to that conclusion because if that mindset exists in America, every muslims living here would have been killed after 9-11."
I never said it was the mindset of America. I said it was your mindset. Your thinking, fortunately, does not represent anywhere close to the majority of Americans. You even admitted that genocide would be a solution. Genocide is never a solution. It only advances more hate. Once you killed off all the Muslims, you would find some other group of people to hate. It will never end with people like you.
Hate will never win...ever! The only way to achieve peace is through love, understanding and acceptance of all people. Why don't you get this? Muslims aren't the enemy. Hate is the enemy and it's coming at us from every direction. It's coming from militant Muslims. It's coming from radical fundamentalist Christians. It's coming from people like you. It's coming from our own government. It's coming from everywhere, Darwin. Until people like you learn to let this go, there will always be war. As long as this hate lingers, people like you will keep killing and killing until there's no people left. Is that what you want?
It's not too late Darwin. You don't have to continue this hate. There's hope for you yet.
Jay, in full hysterics: "You asked me to prove that Islam is a religion of peace. I did just that! You are too afraid to admit this."
Since you deem that a few verses of the koran prove islam peaceful ... I assume you agree that a few verses of the koran can prove it's not.
"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." Qur'an:9:5
"Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission." Qur'an:9:29
"Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious." Ishaq:325
"Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." Qur'an:8:39
"He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'" Ishaq:324
"Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace." Ishaq:587
"Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah's Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: ‘You are not a believer!' Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty." Qur'an:4:94
The Angry Jay: "No, that is not the reality you narrow minded half-wit. But, if you want to look at it technically, all religions state that they are right and to go out and convert people. Your point is meaningless."
My, my ... getting angry are we? Only islam coverts by force and penalty of death. Only islam vows death for those who leave the fold. There is no free will in islam ... except the will to die I suppose.
"You even admitted that genocide would be a solution."
I did? You know, you have me saying things I never said. Don't confuse my use of "islam" with "muslim". The two are not interchangeable. You'd be a shoo-in as a writer for the NY Times. Give it a shot.
If islam cannot be controlled, and it looks like muslims don't want to control it, just wait for the west to do something ... then the only way to peace and safety for the world is for muslims to live exclusively in their own lands. There is no reason the western world needs to put up with the bullshit they do. Pull every western interest out of muslim lands and pull every muslim out of the west.
"Once you killed off all the Muslims, you would find some other group of people to hate. It will never end with people like you."
You haven't read a fucking word I've said. But what's really odd in all this, is the fact that you don't have any real opinions on fighting terror and islamists except to accuse everyone of being mean, full of hate and genocidal. You really don't say anything about islam except how peaceful it is and how scared you are that I want to "kill all muslims". You've become/are an hysterical apologist for islam.
"As long as this hate lingers, people like you will keep killing and killing until there's no people left. Is that what you want?"
Excuse me asswipe ... doncha think you're preaching to the wrong crowd here? Why don't you try giving your fucking lecture to the ones that need it. Get it? Have you not been listening? It's not me or anyone else that needs to hear your whining "hate" speech ... it's the fucking butchering islamists.
Get a fucking clue.
Darwin,
"This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you down, and cut off your head ... that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel." 1 Samuel 17:46
I will give the dead bodies of the host of the Philistines this day to the birds of the air and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. 1 Samuel 17:47
"He ordered the guards and officers to slaughter them all, and to let not a single one escape." (2 Kings Chapter 10 verse 25)
"God said to Jehu, 'you have done well in carrying out what is right and have completed what I wanted done to the house of Ahab. Therefore your sons will be kings over Israel to the fourth generation." (2 Kings Chapter 10 verse 30)
"Joshua destroyed everyone. They did not leave anyone alive." (Joshua 11:14) "They were put to the sword, destroying them all." (Joshua 11:12)
"Kill every woman." Numbers 31:7
"Kill every little boy." Numbers 31:7
"Kill all the infants and suckling babies." 1 Samuel 15:3
"Devour the nations the lord your god delivers over to you. Show them no pity." Deut. 7:16
"You must completely destroy them; you shall make no peace treaties with them, and show no mercy to them." Deut 2:1
"Utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling baby." 1 Samuel 15:3
"Joshua and the men of Israel had finished slaying them with a very great slaughter, until they were wiped out." Joshua 10:20
"Put the inhabitants to the slaughter without giving any quarter and burn their town down." Deut. 13:15
And David took the head of the Philistine and brought it to Jerusalem; but he put his armor in his tent. And as David returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, Abner took him, and brought him before Saul with the head of the Philistine in his hand." 1 Samuel 17:54
You are a wise man; you will know what you ought to do to him, and you shall bring his head down with blood to the grave." 1 Kings 2:9
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. -- Matthew 10:34
The Bible and the Quran are both extremely violent. Both books call for the slaying of people in the name of God.
This, however, does not mean that Christians and Muslims are religions of violence. Both religions, at their core, preach peace.
People who commit violent acts or advocate violent acts in the name of any religion are distorting what their faith is supposed to be about. Radical Muslims are doing some horrible things right now. Radical groups are very powerful in the Middle East. Most Muslims do not believe in what these groups preach, but they don't do anything out of fear. It's exactly the same as the general German population not speaking out against the Nazi's. Most Germans didn't like what was happening, but they kept quiet out of fear. Fear is an extremely powerful tool that has been used time and time again throughout history.
Until peace loving people from all walks of life learn to conquer their fear, they will always be ruled by it. Fear is what drives people to say and do things they otherwise wouldn't. Fear is what allows fundamentalist regimes to maintain control over the peace loving masses.
Conquer your fear and you will find peace through love and acceptance.
Darwin,
There's no reason to be angry with me. What I'm saying is true.
Conquer your fear of difference and you will find peace.
Darwin,
"Why don't you try giving your fucking lecture to the ones that need it."
What makes you think this is the only place I'm offering my thoughts? I preach peace, love and acceptance to all who need it.
Even though we have differences, we are all brothers and sisters. When we conquer our fear of each other and accept this, we will have peace.
Darwin,
"My, my ... getting angry are we?"
Yes, I did get angry and I apologize. Unnecessary anger is never appropriate. Sorry.
Conquer your fear of difference, Darwin. Learn to be the better person. You will find the peace you seek through love and acceptance.
"There's no reason to be angry with me. What I'm saying is true."
No ... it is not. The sooner you admit that the better off you'll be. Islam is not a religion of peace. I have no doubt there are peaceful muslims ... and those that desire peace, but islam was born of violence and deceit and hasn't strayed from it's roots.
Islam's power is in it's control. You know that, I know that. Without that control islam would cease to exist, so it retains that power through forced submission.
It's senseless to quote the old testament or any other religion's tenets or quotes. Nothing has come close to the senseless brutality that islam inflicts.
I stand by everything I've said. Should the muslim community decide to finally rise up against the islamists, the world will stand up with them. Should they choose to remain silent ... then the world must continue to remain wary and suspicious. It's not our call, it's theirs.
"Conquer your fear of difference, Darwin."
You're so confused. There's no fear of difference. It's a battle against elements of the left and radical islam for freedom itself. They've joined forces and have the same goal.
Just open your eyes.
Darwin,
"Islam's power is in it's control. You know that, I know that. Without that control islam would cease to exist, so it retains that power through forced submission."
I agree with this except I would start the sentence with the word 'Radical'. Radical Islam controls the majority of people who follow this religion through fear. I believe it is our responsibility as peace loving people to come to the aid of our peace loving Muslim brothers and sisters. We must show love and compassion for them and show them that they should not be afraid to stand up to the people who manipulate their faith for evil purposes.
"Should the muslim community decide to finally rise up against the islamists, the world will stand up with them."
The reason they're not standing up is because of fear. If you were a regular Muslim person living in the Middle East, would you stand up to a group of crazy people who will kill you for doing so? If you would, you are not like most people.
When the fear of difference is conquered, all peace loving people can work together to defeat those who want to control us. Only then, will peace be acheived.
Love, compassion and acceptance will always win over hate, anger and intolerence.
Jay......as an atheist, I personally thin k the bible is an interesting peice of fiction. Thing is, 99.9% of bible reading Christians just read it.
Islam takes those same types of quotes, and uses them. Daily.
No fucking comparison. NONE.
Jenn,
"No fucking comparison. NONE."
That's not the least bit true. Sorry, but you're clearly blinded by your anger and hatred. All religious fundamentalism is extremely dangerous.
"Islam takes those same types of quotes, and uses them. Daily."
This is an enormous generalization that really has no merit. The vast majority of Muslims do not adhere to this religion of violence that is being shoved down their throats by radical and militant groups. The majority of Muslims in the Middle East are, in fact, being controlled by fear.
I'll ask you the same question I asked Darwin. If you were a regular Muslim person living in the Middle East, would you stand up to the militants who would kill you for doing so?
Peace will only be achieved when fear of difference is conquered. Only then will peace loving people defeat hatred with love and compassion.
"If you were a regular Muslim person living in the Middle East, would you stand up to the militants who would kill you for doing so?"
If I believed what they were doing was wrong, yes. If I believed they were following islam and the endless array of fatwas against "infidels" ... if I believe that's what islam demands ... I doubt it.
Darwin,
"If I believed what they were doing was wrong, yes."
If this is true, then you are a braver person than not just most Muslims, but most people. I applaud you.
However, it's pretty easy to say you would do this from behind a computer when you're not in immediate danger of having your head chopped off.
"If I believed they were following islam and the endless array of fatwas against "infidels" ... if I believe that's what islam demands ... I doubt it."
This statement is not fair. It suggests that the only reason the majority of Muslims aren't standing up to the militants is because they believe in their cause. This is not true. You are not taking into account the fact that they are being controlled by fear. You need to consider all factors and you haven't.
I really don't think you understand the power of fear. Be honest with yourself. Are you sure you would stand up to the radicals? Even if you were the only person willing to? Is your bravery on par with this person's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ima...Tianasquare.jpg
If it is, I truly applaud you.
Peace will only be achieved when fear of difference is conquered. Only then will love and compassion prevail and defeat hatred and intolerence.
"However, it's pretty easy to say you would do this from behind a computer when you're not in immediate danger of having your head chopped off."
You're right, and I've also had the luxury of living free ... so my decision would be biased toward living free, instead of enslaved by murdering fundamentalists.
I can only answer your question based on me, myself and I and my answer would be ... why live in fear if you can do something about it?
I'm a fucking American Jay....I have no problem with difference I have a problem with suicide bombers and beheadings.
What is it with you people and FEAR!!!!
I fear nothing but small dark places and those biting spiders. Oh, and I do so loathe wedgies.
No one here has fear....looking for fear? Look in the mirror.
Jenn,
Your arguments are asinine. You have failed to make one single point of any relevance.
Only through love and compassion will you find peace.
Darwin,
"I can only answer your question based on me, myself and I and my answer would be ... why live in fear if you can do something about it?"
That's a great answer! I agree completely. It is thinking like that which has led to oppressed peoples liberating themselves throughout history. If the masses of peace loving Muslims realized this, the radicals would already have been defeated. You said you wanted these people to stand up to the facists and when they do, the world will stand with them. Why should we wait for them. As someone who knows freedom, work to show the peace loving Muslims they don't have to live in fear and they can do something about it. With this kind of love and compassion you will truly know which individuals want to be free and which ones want to dominate. I think you will find that the peace loving people will grossly out number the facists. History has proved this.
When fear is conquered peace will prevail.
Gee I'm sorry you are fearful. I'm not.
Jenn,
Think outside the box. Yes, you are.
Peace is achieved through conquering fear.
Peace is achieved through superior firepower. Ask Hirohito.
"Peace is achieved through conquering fear."
This doesn't make any sense. Peace is achieved by destroying those that oppose it.
Darwin,
"Peace is achieved by destroying those that oppose it."
Yes, and this can only happen when fear is conquered. If all peace loving people would get over their differences and work together, they would out number the facists by an extremely large margin.
Love and compassion is the only way to find peace.
Jonathan,
"Peace is achieved through superior firepower."
Incorrect. Superior firepower only instills fear into the people you suppose are against you. This is not peace. It is merely a guise designed to make you think it's peace. Eventually, someone is going to have more firepower than the U.S. It's nothing but a vicious cycle of war and fear.
Only when we get over our fear of each other will peace be achieved through love and compassion.
Wow, so you assume to know me, to know how I feel? Wow, that's cute, considering all your posturing and whining that people here are labeling you.
Once again, and I have posted on this several times.....I do not live in fear. Anger maybe, but not fear.
Oh and for for peace to work, people have to actually want it. The people we fight now do not.
Jenn,
"Oh and for for peace to work, people have to actually want it. The people we fight now do not."
This is completely false. Are you telling me you know how all the masses of Muslims in the Middle East feel about peace? That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Give me a break. Your arguments are based on almost nothing. They're so weak.
"Wow, so you assume to know me, to know how I feel?"
I don't assume to know you, but based on the defensive nature of your comments and your broad generalizations, it's pretty clear that you fear change and those who are different from you. This is not uncommon though.
Accept those who are different from you through love and compassion. Realize that most people want peace and you will find that we greatly out number those who don't.
Jesus H on a Popsicle stick. You're a class A grade 1 Moonbat.
I got love man, but not for psycho Muzzies. Thanks, but take your murdering muzzie love elsewhere.
It was the Iraqi people who so happily danced in the streets on 9/11/2001. Throwing candy in the air celebrating by the thousands the deaths of 2,996 of my fellow countrymen. As seen on TV.
It was Muslims by the tens of thousands, not one or two, who took to the streets across the world and held up signs screaming for the beheading of all who "insult Islam". Surely they weren't any of those allusive "moderate" muzzies?
Every day it is Muslims worlwide who kill innocents for a religion.
Four Days Of Fun:
7/30/07 Pakistan- Four civilians are among seven killed by Taliban militants in two separate attacks.
7/29/07 Somalia- Two guards at a market are shot to death by Islamic militants.
7/29/07 Afghanistan- Taliban extremists attack a private aid convoy, killing seven guards.
7/29/07 Iraq- Jihadis lob mortars into a residential neighborhood, killing six people.
7/29/07 Iraq-Sunnis gun down six soccer fans celebrating the country's recent win.
7/29/07Iraq- Islamic terrorists kill three people with multiple bombs at a market.
7/29/07Thailand- Two men, one a work-placement employee, are shot to death by Muslim radicals in separate attacks.
7/29/07 Somalia- Two civilians are killed when Islamic radicals throw grenades into the electronics area of a market.
7/28/07 Pakistan- Three policemen are brutally murdered by Islamic militants in an ambush.
7/28/07 Pakistan- A Fedayeen suicide bomber kills at least fourteen in an attack on a hotel.
7/28/07 Iraq- Sunnis set off a car bomb in a commercial district, killing five people.
7/28/07 Thailand- 38-year-old mother of three succumbs to her injuries three days after a Religion of Peace bomb attack.
7/28/07 Pal. Auth. - A young woman is stabbed to death over 'immoral behavior.'
7/27/07 Dagestan Makhachkala-Islamic terrorists kill an anti-terror cleric and his brother by bombing their car.
7/27/07 Iraq-Seven Iraqi policemen are killed in a Sunni bombing.
7/27/07 Iraq -An engineer and his wife are among ten people murdered by Jihadis in various attacks.
7/27/07 Thailand- A man is shot twice in the head by militant Muslims.
7/27/07Ingushetia Magas-Muslim separatists stage a deadly rocket attack on a government building.
Hey, don't forget the South Koreans. That's just the ones we know about.
Peace and love through honor killings.
Jenn,
The reasons these horrible things happen is because of fear and ignorance. Instead of declaring war on every person who happens to be Muslim, why not reach out to them out of love and compassion and show them that it doesn't have to be like that?
You're basing all of your opinions off of images you saw on American TV. Therefore, these are highly uneducated points of view. Educate yourself, reach out to those who don't know freedom and give it to them. Don't just assume they don't want it.
Let go of your anger and hate, Jenn. It will never bring you peace.
It is her wet dream to use Sheriff Arpaio's magical wand on her oh what will they produce next...
Uh Jay I watch international tv as well. Married to a foreigner.
Jay ... you're long on preaching but extremely short on answers and the "love" thing is very tiresome.
Nobody wants war, everyone wants peace (of course there are exceptions) but you consistently fail to realize that unless muslims start to fight as well, they must be considered if not complicit by failing to act, sympathetic.
The war against islam is worldwide. It's here too. Radicals infest our schools and try the sensibilities of our courts. They claim to be defenseless victims constantly frightened and awaiting the so-called backlash.
They're playing us and our courts like violins and they use the well honed strategies of the left to do it.
Victimhood, hate crimes, political correctness and multiculturalism. They used the same tactics in the UK, and the Brits never knew what hit them and unless the brits wake up soon and throw the invaders out ... there will be no more Britain.
Just wake the fuck up. It's everywhere, just not the middle east.
Darwin,
"unless muslims start to fight as well, they must be considered if not complicit by failing to act, sympathetic."
I don't agree with this. I refuse to live life being suspicious of every Muslim I see. Before 9/11 I walked around not thinking anything of Muslim people, except that they were, well, people. Now, everytime I see a Muslim person the word "terrorist" pops into my head. I don't think that's right. I have many Muslim friends. Now, because of 9/11 and other actions by some crazy fundamentalists, I'm supposed to be suspicious of my friends? That doesn't make any sense.
"Now, because of 9/11 and other actions by some crazy fundamentalists, I'm supposed to be suspicious of my friends? That doesn't make any sense.
Pretty much. It's not supposed to make sense. Maybe that's why you have such a hard time grasping how truly evil evil can be.
You simply refuse to see that thru the lens of islam, you are inferior to most muslims. Whether they smile at you or laugh with you ... you will never be truly equal with them.
The goal of islam is not peace and harmony ... it is the eradication of anything that doesn't serve islam.
I can't help you Jay ... you're on your own.
For the record Jay ... and I mentioned it before, there are some muslim organizations fighting the Wahhabi radicalism that's overtaken as the dominant islamic force in the US. They are few and they are constantly threatened and intimidated but at least they make the effort.
Just ask your friends about the Saudis and wahhabiism and see what reaction you get.
The fight is already engaged here Jay ... wake up.
Thats it.. he's a plant. "I have many Muslim friends." I call Bullshit. If you'd said you had a couple or one... yeah.. but many. Load of bollocks.
Jenn - Are there that many muslims in SD that one can just have "many" muslim friends?
Je says he lives in SD.
Jenn,
"If you'd said you had a couple or one... yeah.. but many. Load of bollocks."
uhh...why is that so hard to believe?
"Married to a foreigner."
Yeah, you mentioned that before. Cool! Where's your husband from?
"Are there that many muslims in SD that one can just have "many" muslim friends?"
There's a large Muslim community a few block from where I live. Although, I don't really have a relationship with any of them. I've travelled to quite a few different cities around the world though and made many Muslim friends and aquaintances. I guess you could say only a few of them are close friends, but I know and trust many.
Lived a couple of blocks from 2 of the 9/11 murderers. Everyone thought they were nice guys. Oh did I mention they attended the mosque at the 805?
Full disclosure Jay.
Darwin,
I've lived in and/or visited San Diego, New York, Boston, San Francisco, L.A., Orlando, Tampa, Buffalo, Niagara Falls, Cape Cod, Atlanta, West Virginia, Virginia, Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver, Hamilton, Mexico, Portugal and many more places.
I've met and befriended many Muslim people in some of these places. I've also befriended many people from all sorts of cultures in all of them.
These people ar not bad, despite what you want to believe.
Jenn,
Did you know that some of those alleged airplane hijackers are still alive? How is that possible?
Sorry Jay, only someone who has an agenda would disregard the events happening not only in the world but here in the US.
I've traveled throughout the entirety of Canada and the US and lived in Europe. Unless you deal with muslims specifically in business or go out of your way to visit muslim communities, you're just not going to meet muslims everywhere you go.
Your excuses and disregard for facts and the reality of the situation makes it clear you don't oppose the actions of islamists here or in Europe.
Islam and the west don't mix. Either be happy with what you have here or emigrate to the middle east. You'll have plenty of muslim friends then.
Jonathan,
"Peace is achieved through superior firepower."
Incorrect. Superior firepower only instills fear into the people you suppose are against you. This is not peace.
Jay, with all due respect, my friend, that's a steaming pile of bovine loaf.
Did you skip the "Ask Hirohito" point I made? We dropped a couple of frybabies on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and haven't had a squabble with Japan since then. We're practically best buds now. If that's not a peaceful relationship, I don't know what is.
In kindergarten, a bully (Steven Robinson) was stealing all the kids' lunch money, until Oliver Maxwell punched him in his nose and made Steven cry like Barney Frank when the Village People broke up. After that, ol' Stevie Boy was as much of a pacifist as you.
Jay, there are people who want you dead because they're not like you and you're not like them. They don't want to negotiate. Hell, if you were to negotiate with them, their starting condition would be "You must submit to the will of Allah or die. No ifs, ands, or buts about it." Sorry, dude, but a big group hug and a lifetime supply of couscous isn't going to turn them into "Muhammed Gandhi" or anything.
Ergo, I am correct: peace through superior firepower. To you, peace is merely and solely the current absence of military conflict, and that, sir, is a naive position.
Jonathan,
"Did you skip the "Ask Hirohito" point I made? We dropped a couple of frybabies on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and haven't had a squabble with Japan since then. We're practically best buds now. If that's not a peaceful relationship, I don't know what is."
The murder of millions of Japanese is anything but peaceful. There's always another way. Think.
"Jay, there are people who want you dead because they're not like you and you're not like them."
I know. I haven't denied that. My only point that it's the extremists that want this. Not all, or even most, Muslims. To think all or most Muslims want you dead is a generalization based on fear and paranoia. Nothing more.
"Sorry, dude, but a big group hug and a lifetime supply of couscous isn't going to turn them into "Muhammed Gandhi" or anything."
I never said it would. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
"Ergo, I am correct: peace through superior firepower."
You could not be more incorrect.
"To you, peace is merely and solely the current absence of military conflict, and that, sir, is a naive position."
This is not my position at all. Again, please stop putting words in my mouth.
Fight the extremists, which are the minority. Show compassion for the rest, which are the majority.
Peace.
Darwin,
"Sorry Jay, only someone who has an agenda would disregard the events happening not only in the world but here in the US."
My only agenda is to achieve peace.
"you're just not going to meet muslims everywhere you go."
I'm pretty sure I didn't say that. I said I've met many Muslims in some of those places. Toronto and Hamilton, Ontario have very large Muslim populations. That's where I met most of the Muslims I know.
"go out of your way to visit muslim communities"
I do go out of my way to visit all cultural communities in the cities I'm living in or visiting.
"Your excuses and disregard for facts"
I'm not making excuses for anyone and my view points do not disregard any facts.
"you don't oppose the actions of islamists here or in Europe."
I oppose the actions of Muslim extremists, as I oppose all extremists. I've been very clear on this, Darwin.
"Islam and the west don't mix."
Only to extremists and close minded fools.
"Either be happy with what you have here or emigrate to the middle east."
Everything sounds so simple when you make it black and white, doesn't it? What a ridiculous statement, Darwin.
Get over your paranoia of the "evil Muslim", Darwin. You will find peace.
The murder of millions of Japanese is anything but peaceful. There's always another way. Think.
I did think, Jay. The murder of a couple hundred thousand Japanese was not peaceful at the time, but the end result was over six decades of peace. Japan was willing to fight to the death, or so they thought. After we showed them that we could facilitate that death they thought they were willing to fight to, they wisely reconsidered.
It was the introduction of two atomic bombs, and not a lifetime supply of rice, that stopped the war and introduced the following peace. As much as this may eat at your craw, you know this to be irrefutably true: sometimes, it's just necessary to decisively kick the everloving dog squeeze out of your opponent in order to secure peace.
Also...
I said "Sorry, dude, but a big group hug and a lifetime supply of couscous isn't going to turn them into 'Muhammed Gandhi' or anything." Your response was "I never said it would."
In so many ways, yeah you did: "why not reach out to them out of love and compassion and show them that it doesn't have to be like that?"
Jay, you seem like a nice guy, but I have to say this in the most non-condescending way possible: you are incredibly naive to the ways of the world. You have peace in your heart, and that's admirable. However, there are ugly realities of this world that I'm certain you refuse to see, and one of those realities is that sometimes, war (and yes, even brutality in war) is indeed necessary to secure peace. The peace we secured by our levelling of two Japanese cities in 1945 is proof.
Actually, I meant to add a little extra to this retort:
The murder of millions of Japanese is anything but peaceful. There's always another way. Think.
There WAS no other way. The only other option was to continue fighting an enemy sworn to our destruction, and lose tens of thousands more American lives.
Do you honestly believe that Truman and his men didn't think long and hard about dropping those two bombs? I am positive that he weighed ALL possible scenarios before reaching the somber conclusion to which he ultimately came.
I am sure that he lost a TON of sleep over that decision, despite the fact that it achieved the exact result he was expecting: Japan's unconditional surrender and an end to World War II.
So while "There's always another way" sure makes for a great bumper sticker, it's a bit more complicated than that.
"Everything sounds so simple when you make it black and white, doesn't it? What a ridiculous statement, Darwin."
Jay, that's because it is so simple. The only thing ridiculous is your position that it's the west's responsibility to fight islamic terror while muslims do nothing.
After 9-11 Bush publically declared that islam is a religion of peace ... what a fucking joke that was. I was embarrassed. Muslims have done nothing since that to prove him right, in fact they've gone out of their way to prove him wrong, especially muslims in Europe and the US. Everything CAIR and other muslims organizations have done do nothing but make me despise muslims even more.
Every American should buy a koran and use the pages to wipe their ass. Fucking psychotic motherfuckers ...
Don't reply, I already know what you're going to write ... I've read it at least 50 times.
Jonathan,
Very well said. It's nice to converse with someone on here who actually has a point to make. Again, very well said!
"why not reach out to them out of love and compassion and show them that it doesn't have to be like that?"
What I mean by this is I think we should look deeper. I think we need to realize exactly who the enemy is. I believe this to be extremists. Not just in Islam, but all extremists. I don't believe that the general Muslim population is made up of militant extremists. I believe it's our responsibility to reach out to these people and show them that they don't have to follow the ideals of the extremists.
"However, there are ugly realities of this world that I'm certain you refuse to see"
Oh, I certainly see them. I just don't believe they're as generalized as some people think. And I certainly don't believe that they only come from Islam.
"and one of those realities is that sometimes, war (and yes, even brutality in war) is indeed necessary to secure peace."
You're right. However, I believe we are often too hasty to do this. But, you are right.
"Do you honestly believe that Truman and his men didn't think long and hard about dropping those two bombs?"
Of course not.
"There WAS no other way."
I don't agree, but I see your point. Something had to be done. Why did it have to be the Atomic bomb? There were other ways the U.S. could have shown their superior firepower without killing thousands of civilians. It just seems to me like they wanted to show off their new weapon. But, I see where you are coming from.
Despite what some people may think, I am not blind to the evils of this world. I believe it's important to realize who the the real evil people are. I believe it's my responsibility to always try to be the better person. If someone expresses hatred towards me, I do my best to let it go and show them that they have no reason to hate me. I only use force when it becomes a matter of defense. If one Muslim hates me, I focus on that individual. I do not apply his hatred of me to other Muslims. This is foolish and inhumane. I refuse to step down to the level of an extremist hater. I don't believe in allowing extremists to walk all over me, but I do believe in learning who those extremists are. This is not the majority of any given group. It has been and it never will be.
Peace Jonathan.
Jay, my friend, I think on some points we'll agree, and on many (if not most) others, we'll have to "agree to disagree".
Thanks for the debate, though. Have a good day.
Darwin,
"that's because it is so simple."
No, it isn't. It never is.
"The only thing ridiculous is your position that it's the west's responsibility to fight islamic terror while muslims do nothing."
This is not my position and it never has been.
I feel sorry for you, Darwin. I can't imagine what it must be like to be filled with so much anger and hate. Just let it go. You seem to be so blinded by your hatred for a general group of people. I feel so sorry for you, but I won't give hope for you.
Peace Darwin.
Jonathan,
That's cool. I'm sure there are points we're both right and wrong about. That's usually the case.
Peace! Enjoy your day too man!
Actually, Jay, I just noticed your quoting of Scripture to prove your point that Christianity advocates violence. It does not, and the tactic you used is one that I've seen used often by those who are anti-Christian and/or moral relativists (not that I am necessarily implying you are either...I'm just saying I've seen this before).
I won't take the time to refute them all, since after a cursory view of the first few, I see that you've taken those out of context. Therefore, I am assuming you have taken them all out of context, since that's the tactic I always see. So, here are a few rebuttals:
1 Samuel 17:46 - This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.
This is David talking to the Philistines (especially Goliath) who provoked him and attempted to kill him first. David is letting them know that he (David) is protected by God and that God has sent him to stop their evil ways. Yes, God recognizes good and evil, and the Philistines were "the bad guys".
Numbers 31:7 doesn't even say what you contend it does. Here it is, in the context of a war that God has commanded Moses to launch in order to free the Israeli slaves of Midian:
7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
God wasn't too keen on his followers being enslaved. I'm guessing He's kinda funny that way.
1 Samuel 15:1-3 - Samuel also said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over His people, over Israel. Now therefore, heed the voice of the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” Full context here, but I think you get the idea.
Matthew 10:34. For proper context, as with all of these, read the passages that lead up to it: 32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. 34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. In other words, there are consequences to be levied by God for those who turn away from Him. Unlike Islam, God's not telling us to kill the nonbelievers here.
See what I mean? Everything you mentioned was either missrepresented or completely ignored of context. There's no confusing the context of the Koran, though: kill the infidels. Period.
Jonathan,
My only point was that the Bible is violent. Any violence in the name of God is wrong because it's crazy. Anyone who takes the violence from their religious text and applies to today, is an extremist. This is unacceptable.
Both the Bible and the Quran teach compassion as well. Most people who follow these books adhere to those lessons. At least from my experience anyway.
Either way, I don't believe in any religion. I think it's all a bunch of superstitious nonsense. But, that doesn't mean I don't have love and respect for people of faith. The only people who are a problem are the extremists.
"I can't imagine what it must be like to be filled with so much anger and hate."
Who cares? Your triteness and brushoff of the insidious islamization going on in this country has done nothing but strengthened my disdain for islam. Good job.
Save your sorrow for Stanislav Shmulevich.
Darwin,
"insidious islamization going on in this country"
This isn't happening. You're paranoid. Are you really that afraid of change?
Peace for all people. Especially you, Darwin.
"This isn't happening. You're paranoid."
lol
"Are you really that afraid of change?"
So you think islamization would be a good thing then?
You can't lose any more credibility since you had none to begin with ... so let's just say the hole you're digging just keeps getting deeper.
Darwin,
You could not be more wrong about me. I have dug no hole. I am preaching compassion. You are preaching paranoia.
"So you think islamization would be a good thing then?"
I think allowing people to live and let live is a good thing. I am not afraid of welcoming my brothers and sisters from all walks of life.
Peace Darwin. My love goes out to you.
"I think allowing people to live and let live is a good thing. I am not afraid of welcoming my brothers and sisters from all walks of life."
You don't deny that attempts to islamize America are under way, you refuse to condemn it. Hmmmmmm ...
On this comment you have sealed your fate. By condoning the islamization of not only America, but the world ... you have labeled yourself by that which you say you oppose ... extremism.
Bye Jay.
Darwin,
"You don't deny that attempts to islamize America are under way, you refuse to condemn it."
I just don't agree with you. I don't deny that there are crazy fundamentalists out there who want to change everything to their way of life. However, I just don't agree with what you think it is. That's it. Your logic of calling me an extremist doesn't make any sense. I am as far from being an extremist as one can get.
I don't condone fundamentalsit takeovers. I do condone living amongst each other in peace. That's all I want.
Peace Darwin.
As I said ... you sealed your fate. Each answer just further clarifies it.
You're obsessed with "peace" to the point of extremism and allowing other extremists to do their bidding.
Peace to all who oppose genocide in any form.
Good point D, he is an extremist. I knew there was something wrong with him.
Jenn,
Give me a break. I am far from an extremist. If you would just speak with me face to face as I requested, you would see this.
Although, there's no reason to think I'm an extremist anyway.
You guys will not succeed in bullying me away.
Peace to all of you.
Gee Jay why don't you call into the show.
"I am far from an extremist."
I don't think so. You flaunt peace as if you own stock in it. I want peace, most people do ... but not at the expense of my freedom and country. It seems to me you're merely projecting your extremism onto us.
"You guys will not succeed in bullying me away."
So now you're a victim? Gonna see if you can press for hate crimes? If you can't take the heat ...
Darwin,
"So now you're a victim? Gonna see if you can press for hate crimes?"
No and no.
What kind of extremist am I exactly? Based on what I've said, do you feel that I'm willing to murder countless people for this cause that I'm apparently so extreme about?
Peace Darwin.
Jenn,
"Gee Jay why don't you call into the show."
I suppose I could.
Jenn,
I could even be on your show if you want.
Jenn,
You can be Hannity and I'll be Colmes. 
"Based on what I've said, do you feel that I'm willing to murder countless people for this cause that I'm apparently so extreme about?"
Not intentionally, but by ignoring what's happening people with attitudes like yours have unintentionally been complicit in the deaths of countless people.
There's nothing wrong with wanting peace yet being vigilant and proactive. You're neither.
Darwin,
I'm not ignoring anything. But, since you mention it, what are you doing about it? How are you being vigilant and proactive for your cause?
I am vigilant and proactive. Just not for the same cause as you. So please, do not say that I'm not. It's false. People don't have to be like you to love their country and freedom.
Peace and music Darwin.
Jay,
No thanks, I'll be me and you can be the lefty tool you are and gee wouldn't that be fun.
Shall I pencil you in?
"How are you being vigilant and proactive for your cause?"
Vigilance is impossible if you don't know who or what is around you. When you do ... simple awareness can suffice.
I try to point these creeping dangers out to people like you ... so you're aware as well. No offense, but I really don't think you've taken the time to examine all the documentation and evidence that exists on many of these organizations. If you had, you might not be so quick to deny what I and others have said.
Jenn,
Jokes!
Well, could we discuss this over email or something?
Darwin,
I just disagree with you. That's pretty much it. I agree that there are people who are a threat. I think one of the only things we disagree on is how many.
You have said that muslims are "afraid" to speak up and do anything about radical islam. That's understandable in places like Afghanistan, but what about here? Or Europe?
You see your explanation doesn't hold up. Do they fear being captured and beheaded here? Blown up? Having their children baked in ovens? Just what exactly is holding them back here? Certainly not Americans ... that's what we've been waiting for. Muslims marching in the streets with signs that say "death to radical islam" instead of the "death to everyone except us" signs we're used to seeing.
Why haven't we seen more resistance here?
Darwin,
"That's understandable in places like Afghanistan, but what about here? Or Europe?"
They are speaking up. Quite loudly actually. Apparently, you refuse to listen.
"Why haven't we seen more resistance here?"
We have. Your fear and hatred has blinded you to this.
Let go of that and you will see the truth.
So... I talk to and interview muslim doctors, leaders of groups who are muslim and have been all their lives, from places like Lebabon and Iran and THEY say that muslims are not speaking up.
But Jay Soul Boy of San Diego says they are.
Whoever do I believe.. the actual people or Jay.....Tough decision.
"Whoever do I believe.. the actual people or Jay.....Tough decision."
Hmmmmmmm ... that's a tough one. Who do I pick ... OK, the actual people?
Is that right?
Jenn,
True, a lot aren't, but many are. The statement "muslims aren't speaking up" is stupid. Look at all sides.
Peace Jenn!
Most aren't a very few are. Most of them then have fatwahs placed upon them.
Look at the writing on the wall.
War Jay.
Jenn,
"Most aren't a very few are. Most of them then have fatwahs placed upon them."
Incorrect. Do some actual research please.
"Look at the writing on the wall."
Oh, I have. The difference between you and me, it seems, is that I look at all the writing on every wall.
"War Jay."
Are you implying that you like war? I hope not.
Peace Jenn.
Jay: "Incorrect. Do some actual research please."
lol ... This has to be the funniest thing I've read all day.
Jay telling Jenn to do some "actual" research.
Oh man ....
Darwin,
Jenn fails to look at all sides of an issue. As do you. You merely focus on stories that fit your agenda.
Peace!
How do you know how many sides of an issue I look at? From your weak replies it's apparent you're the one with a singular focus. You have no idea of what I've read or who I've talked to. According to you, I haven't looked at "all sides" simply because I don't agree with you.
Now that Jay ... is not looking at it from all sides.
Darwin,
"According to you, I haven't looked at "all sides" simply because I don't agree with you."
Incorrect. I have no doubt you've read a lot coming from all sides. However, it is clear that you are only capable of absorbing the work of people who share your animalistic revenge mentality.
Peace!
ROTFLMAO!!!!! Darwin it becomes clearer and clearer. Jay is one of those people who won't get it until he, his family and friends have a personal jihad waged in his living room.
When someone he loves dies at the hands of Islam, maybe then he'll comprehend.
"When someone he loves dies at the hands of Islam, maybe then he'll comprehend."
Or when he's cleaning the footbaths at the local mosque because all music has been banned.
"However, it is clear that you are only capable of absorbing the work of people who share your animalistic revenge mentality."
Oh my ... Besides the fact that it's clear that really nothing is clear for you ... revenge is in the domain of sentient beings. "Revenge", especially as a dish served cold, hasn't really been a hallmark behavior of animals.
Therefore you are incorrect.
No peace for you this time.
Holy Shit that was hilarious!
"Therefore you are incorrect.
No peace for you this time."
ROTFLMAO Destined to be a classic.
Jenn,
"Destined to be a classic."
Incorrect.
Peace!
Jay,
"Incorrect."
Incorrect.
No peace for you this time.
Jenn,
"No peace for you this time."'
Good. I now realize how blind and weak I was being. Thank you.
"Good. I now realize how blind and weak I was being. Thank you."
That's great Jay. Your first mission, should you decide to accept it, is to write your Senators and Congresscritters and ask them why they're dragging their pampered asses on John Doe protection legislation. Ask them why they feel it's ok for a Saudi funded, terrorist supporting group like CAIR to freely intimidate our citizens by lawsuit.
Your keyboard will self-destruct in 5 .. 4 .. 3 ..
LOL.....
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