This Is Not A Democracy, It's A Republic........
This is bizarre to me - we all know YouTube is incredibly PRO-islam. Any anti islamic vid gets yanked immediately. So I don't know where they're coming from.
From odd news to worse - Musharraf (sp) is going to beat feet. Knowing that his opponents are going to oust him (which is strange since he just won re-election last fall) he's decided to throw in the towel.
This means that Pakistan (a nuclear power) is now in the hands of the nutjobs. Just great!
And LIBTARDS do not believe in the war on terror. They think if we just leave them alone they won't bother us. STUPID LIBTARDS.
Scary Wit.
Any bets on who they'll nuke first?
Mexico??? hope, hope, hope
And the UN wants to control and monitor the inernet and regulate what we see just like any world goverment run by tyrants SCREW THE UN
More good stuff from our allies.
Before you start bashing Pakistan(I have plenty I could say about them myself), you might want to take a minute to do some research and find out how much money the US has poured into Pakistan going back decades.
What the hell does THAT have to do with anything?
Point is that Musharraf was the only halfway decent thing in that arm-pit, and now he's being forced out. For what? So-called "moderate" terrorists? Musharraf WAS the only moderate secularist there.
It has a lot to do with everything. US support did not begin with Musharref, it may actually predate Zia as well. Zia in case you didn't know, used the Pakistani intelligence service, known as the ISI or sometimes ISID, to aid the Afghan Mujahadeen during the Soviet occupation. US funds poured into Pakistan, and the ISI routed it either directly to the rebels or sometimes through an organization called "Maktyab al-Khidimat", or Afghan "Services Bureau". This was Osama Bin Laden's first organization(he was not the sole leader nor founder however), and Al Qaeda is basically the same concept on a transnational scale. You can read all about it in Through Our Enemies Eyes by Michael Scheuer.
Wow, some of these comments could have easily come from Islamic fascists. LIBTARDS?...are you serious, who are you Rush Limbaugh? Get a life loser.
...and I seriously doubt you were in Vietnam.
I suppose you are talking about the War on Terror in Iraq? Oh that's right Iraq had nothing to do with the War on Terror and 911 (idiot). Fascotard!
So what, Slav - we were fighting the expansionism of communism - or are you one of those people who think communism is nifty keen?
BTW Bin Laden boasts he never took a dime from the US.
What you are still refusing to GET is the country is now in the hands of the non-friendlies and . . . they have NUKES!!!
Chris - shove off! Namvet is for real and you have no clue how to fight a war if you don't understand the concept of "FRONTS"
But I suppose you're in the cut and run crowd who want to leave a new terrorist state to yet ANOTHER islamofacist group!
You people are so short sighted your stupidity actually is blinding to others who actually have a clue.
Yes, you were fighting the expansion of Communism, and LOOK what happened. This just goes to prove what Marx said when he wrote that capitalism creates its own grave-diggers. However, Marx meant in that passage that capitalism creates the proletariat class which can overthrow it. In this case we see that imperialists, in their short-sightedness and inability to see anything but short-term profits and control, are more than willing to aid movements that will turn on them at the drop of a hat.
Now, unless there is some kind of viable socialist movement in the world, what you call "Islamofascists" will inevitably win their Jihad, on a long enough time-line. They are far more motivated and determined, most of their soldiers have nothing to lose, they recruit far more people worldwide, they are more in number in general, the West which is trying to fight them cannot help but invite them in by the boatload to exploit their cheap labor, and their war is far cheaper to execute than that of the West. Great job there.
Oh and that's just lovely what Bin Laden boasts. It's really a great idea to take everything that guy says at face value.
Take a terrorist at face value? I don't think so.
So just roll over and take it up the whazoo, right? Just give up? Just put the sharia law into practice right now? Close down all schools and burn all the churches - put all the women in burkas and start the honor killings! Pray five times a day to the hunks of rock they have over in SA and all forward human development screeches to a halt.
Lovely picture you yearn for. No thanks. I'll let you live your dream - I prefer to die fighting to protect mine.
You'll miss my kind when your in the midst of the nightmare that is your totalitarian dream.
Well the way America's "leaders" want to fight it won't work. The only way is through a new movement that fights imperialism while being progressive enough to address those social causes that swell the ranks of international terrorists.
Just what is imperialism? America is capitalistic. We are post enlightenment - something your terrorist buddies never became acquainted with. We love liberty - they love death.
You will NEVER solve their social woes - because their social woes are due to their religion and you will never separate them from their religion.
For all your indoctrination, your talking points all refuse to recognize the real threat - islam.
Jen
you forgot who declared the banniong of You Tube
bush's boy, the current president of Pakistan
kindd of deflated your whole unhinged shrieking about Moonbats, the current dictator of Pakistan banned you tube not the new president
don't let facts fly in the way of another unhinged opportunity to shriek about libs
You know Musharraf is out - right? He ain't making no laws.....
Musharraf clamped down on You tube idiots, the same Musharraf you call decent
Pakistan is armed to the teeth with nukes and the GOP helped them achieve their goal. Libtards?
We spoke about Pakistan, you called us traitors.... who was right? You shrieked they were our ally in the "war on terror", that worked real well right?? When Paki nukes are hitting America, remember the Bush era of failed policies, and morons like Jenn shrieking "libtard" instead of talking issues......
As usual the conservative party was wrong, now Pakistan is armed with nukes and little Jenn, shrieks "libtard"
War on terror? We armed another Muslim fundi country
again which political parry allowed Pakistan to become armed to the teeth? It was not the libtards.....
incidently "libtard", so 2001, it is not 2001 anymore, Coulters last book sold 3 copies, America has shifterd to the left, America is rejecting conservatism nation wide.....
Everytime you shriek "libtard" another 5000 Americans shift to the left.
Nationwide, America is rejecting moonbattery, otherwise known as conservatism
libtard.
within 20 years the GOP will not even exist anymore... Who's the tard now?
your ideology armed another terrorist nation. Good job!
He is not out yet, they only had the election like 3 weeks ago, his telecom authority banned You tube.
"your ideology armed another terrorist nation. Good job!"
Dingbat ... they developed nukes with Chinese assistance. You idiots are so eager to blame the US for everything. Why the fuck don't you move somewhere else? Try Europe.
Stupid, spineless, ignorant, weak willed, weak minded asshole.
Thanks, Darwin! These people want the yoke of tyranny around everybody's neck! That's why they want it here. Socialism usually creates a pretty large body count. Think how many dead people a nation of 300 million will give them. Loads of fun for them then.
I don't believe Musharraf clamped down on anything - the prez doesn't have that kind of power - he controls the military only. He was the only thing that kept the extremest in check - now he's pretty much outta there.
You people hate this country so much you'll do anything to undermine it. I have YET to hear you f-ing moonbats even ONCE condemn them for any of their murderous actions. Killing gays, killing women, killing those not of islam. That's just fine with you people. Did you become aroused when you watched the video of Nick Birds head being sawed off over and over again? Sick bastards!
Witness
Like all psuedo-conservative knee jerk half-wits you put words into my mouth. I'm indeed a democratic-socialist, not a Democrat, but indeed a SOCIALIST, think Norway's government, and you have my ideology... clearly defined. I never defended Islam.. Islam, like all religon is nothing but a tool to keep the elite in power, I condemn all terrorism, this is a given, I condemn religious fundamentalism, Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu all of it.. I'm not an athiest either, I'm a member of the Unitarian Church, I have faith, I'm a spiritulist, I'm clairvoyant as well, and have worked with the spirit world and have contacted spirits etc etc. Organized religion has destroyed spirituality, and I can guarantee you the spirit world is real.
But I digress.
Indeed China has helped Pakistan gather nukes, this started in the late 80's and continued on under Clinton and Bush.
Musharraf is pretty much a fundi himself, and has let the jihadists (or as you like to call them Muzzies) do whatever they weant for years on end. Musharraf was never elected into office, Musharraf indeed is still calling the shots and the telecommunications regulatory agency is indeed Musharraf's agency. Musharraf has NEVER and NEVER will be a friend of "freedom".
Knowing that Musharraf is a dictaor, and knowing the growing amount of Islamic-extremism in Pakistan, and knowing 9-11 took place it is simply insane that your favorite GOP administration, allowed Pakistan to continue to build nukes as you like to put it in a "post 9-11 world" and continue to support the Musharraf dictatorship.
Witness, can you speak like an adult or do you regress to "you hate America" whenever confronted with reality????
Reality check, Bush failed America, especially with the Pakistan issue. I don't "hate America" I wish to make it better, your happy with a failing America, because the president has an "R" next to his name.]
anyway carry on defending the failed ideology of psuedo-conservatism.
libtard, lib lib lib, commie, traitor. Do you ever get tired of the same bullshit?
"Islam, like all religon is nothing but a tool to keep the elite in power"
Islam is not like any of the major religions, in fact, I wouldn't call it a religion. It's more akin to communism, fascism or any of the destructive ism's of the 20th century.
Men corrupt and use their power over men. That is not the doing of "religion".
"I don't "hate America" I wish to make it better, your happy with a failing America"
You simply have no idea what America is or what it stands for. If you did, you wouldn't be touting your socialist ideals. America isn't failing, it's in the midst of a struggle for it's very soul. On one hand they're people like you ... who wish to destroy what built this country ... freedom and individualism in favor of some godless, freedomless gray world where the state rules, not the people. On the other hand, there are people like me who want less government, more personal accountability and the freedom from the oppressive state.
You can have your false uptopia, you just won't get it here.
"I'm not an athiest either, I'm a member of the Unitarian Church"
So you're a member of an organized religion, which in your view is nothing but a tool to keep elite in power?
Spiritualism, eh. I actually know all about that - you don't - it's filled with spirits all right, just not the kind you think are there.
Your Netherlands are a failing nation - I read posts from their people. A people cowed by islam and their governments willing appeasement. "We must be good to them now so that when they are our masters they will be good to us." That's what you want for this country?
If any of their people peacefully stand with a sign protesting the islamification of their country their police now jump and club them down and beat them like they are a child murderer.
I really could care less about the GOP - I am a conservative and NOT a republican. Bush is a lib - he's a globalist - just like YOU!
You people DO like death! You'd HAVE to. Totalitarianism always carries a body count and you people always want to impose this failing system upon people, whether they wish it or not.
YOU are the people who said that murdering 45 million people was just breaking a few eggs to make that utopian omlette.
You will NEVER separate the ME from islam. You WILL appease them, because you view it as the enemy of my enemy is my friend. WE are the only ones fighting them so you use it as a cudgel to incessantly beat the American people's morale down against an enemy who HAS sworn to kill every last one of us (BTW - that means YOU too!)
I, at least can live and let live, as long as you don't bother me or anybody else. You, on the other hand intend to force your will upon the populace and WHEN I reject your socialism you WILL kill me for it.
With all the failures and death attributed to socialism ... it's just mind boggling that people still fall for it's siren song.
Ok apparently a lot of nonsense passed between my comments and those of another, so I will just focus on what seemed to be addressed to me:
"Just what is imperialism? America is capitalistic. We are post enlightenment - something your terrorist buddies never became acquainted with. We love liberty - they love death."
Imperialism is the exploitation of other nations either directly, or via proxy, the latter being known as neo-colonialism. Capitalist powers inevitably grow into empires for two reasons, usually simultaneously: 1. There is always a need for new markets. 2. To decrease costs of production, capitalists must acquire cheap resources but more importantly, ever decreasing wages, also known as variable capital.
If America "loves liberty", why does it need bases in over 100 countries worldwide? The Dutch clearly love liberty, perhaps moreso than Americans in some cases, and yet for some reason they no longer have the need to maintain a colonial empire with garrisons worldwide. Ditto with any other number of European countries.
The first step to understanding the crisis of the 21st century is to stop pretending that you are Serbs or Greeks in the 14th or 13th century- Islam isn't invading your backyard. Your government went out into the world, invaded these peoples' societies, both directly and indirectly, and strangled every possible alternative to Islamic fundamentalism in terms of resistance to colonialism.
Aside from constant US support for Saudi Arabia, the US has had a history of supporting Islamic extremists against people who were not even remotely "Communist" such as Mossadegh of Iran.
"You will NEVER solve their social woes - because their social woes are due to their religion and you will never separate them from their religion."
Incorrect- their social woes are due to the expansion of capitalism into their nations, and being uprooted by that system. When capitalist relations spread to nations so previously backward, it begins with small peasants being uprooted, or otherwise being severed from either their small means of production(like small craftsmen) or in most cases, land. This creates the urban proletariat.
A peasant may be dirt poor, but as long as he has HIS dirt(his land), he is more or less self-sufficient. If he is removed from the land and forced to move to the nearest city, he is at the mercy of his nation's capitalists, who in turn are at the mercy of the larger global economy.
This process breaks apart families, breaks down social values, and throws peoples' lives into chaos. Indeed it has everywhere this process took place for the most part. Now there are many traditional mores in Islam that ought to be broken down, as they existed and in some cases still exist in Christianity and other religions. But the problem is that capitalism breaks these down and offers no alternative.
For people in these countries, they may have been previously poor, but there was community, there was identity. Capitalism strips away all this and forces everyone to become part of a big machine; you may not recognize it on the receiving end in the States, but in Pakistan where a great deal of the population is illiterate yet the government spends most of its budget on military technology, the situation is far more clear. Many of these young men are forced to leave their country and work in others.
These people used to be able to turn to Communism as an alternative; now they are told they can't do this, and thanks to the US and its allies, Islamic fundamentalism was given a massive victory over what was commonly held to represent "Communism" in the late 1980s. Now these people, particularly the young men, find radical Islam appealing. It gives them a purpose capitalism cannot. It gives them morals, and standards. These may seem to be the most bizarre and backward, yet if they were so inferior we ought to ask why we don't see the same suicidal defense of capitalism on the part of radical Islam's alleged enemies.
"For all your indoctrination, your talking points all refuse to recognize the real threat - islam."
Alas, there are people in the world who are not "indoctrinated" and do not get their information from "talking points" nor do they reduce everything into talking points. Those who are concerned with truth or history know better as to treat with the greatest suspicion, those who want to reduce complicated issues into slogans and sound bites.
Islam is a problem because your government, in concert with several others, MADE it a problem. It agitated these people, then out of class devotion it armed and trained these fanatic barbarians and encouraged them everywhere possible in the name of fighting Communism. Now either the people of the world will discover the truth about Communism and put an end to both these vipers(capitalism and radical religion in all forms), or the monster that imperialism created will overcome it, and mankind will endure yet another barbaric dark age.
Throwing around meaningless words like "freedom" or "liberty" will not alter reality one bit. Actions have reactions.
Yes, it is! But it makes those that believe in it "feel good" without having done anything constructive to improve the lot of any human soul they've come in contact with. Socialism isn't progressive - it's not new. It's a very old concept and every time it's been tried it has failed. But again, it makes those that believe in it feel "moral" as though they are high minded and noble.
There is nothing noble about destroying a people's work ethic and stealing the fruits of someone's labor. Doing so actually destroy's a person reason for living. In fact, people stop living and only exist. How dreary is that?
I would like to know exactly WHAT about this country this would-be slave thinks is so horrible and failing?
Is it our freedom? Our liberty? The medicines we've been able to create - through free markets and research - that has cured deseases and made the quality of life so much better for the entire planet? and please don't bring up our healthcare. While there are problems, we still have the best system going. You want cheap? Put a stopper on the sue-happy lawyers that have driven up healthcare with their billions of dollar lawsuits. Stop illegals from using our emergency rooms for runny noses and diaper rashes.
Is it our wealth? Created BY the free market, where anybody, no matter what their economic status or their start in life, can acheive unimagined wealth? Is it our unprecedented bounty? Again, created by the free market? Have you ever gone into a grocery store and thanked God for the bounty you see? Have you ever seen the shelves bare? Have you ever gone hungry?
Is it because we have freed millions of people? Don't believe it? Ask the East Europeans! Ask the Afghani's! The Iraqi's are working on it....
This country is such a success that if we fail economically, we take the entire world down with us because their economies are tied to ours.
Are we perfect? No. Have we made mistakes? Sure. But name me a perfect nation. We come damn well close to being perfect and at least our motives are benign. We are NOT imperialists (what a made up word THAT is!) and we pretty much left the world alone, until they made it clear they were not going to leave us alone.
Per your twisted and convoluted logic, if we just leave their homeland they will leave us alone. That has already been proven a lie. Best thing we can teach those barbarians is if you mess with us we will REALLY mess up your day.
Per your economic strategy, people here will starve and freeze to death during the winter. With your nationalized healthcare (you bitch about our worthless government and yet that's who you want to run the healthcare system - that is braindead!) people will die waiting for operations and the government will refuse to even treat people because of their lifestyle choices.
I like this country just the way it is - in fact, I'd like to go back before the dem-party lurched to the left and we had more liberty.
I thank God I was blessed enough to be born in this country and I am greatful for those who paid the ultimate price so I can enjoy the wonderful life and opportunities I've had. I am thankful and I will do all I can to save her.
We didn't create islamofacists - they've been around for 1400 years. Your platitures can't explain that away.
I reject your label of imperialism. Your contruct is what tears families apart - your communism is the stealing of all land. No one is allowed to own land under communism. Don't believe it? First thing old Hugo did was to seize all private companies and nationalize them and them he seized everybodies land. For the people, you know.
Your social fix is, yet again, detroying a once vibrant country right before everybodies eyes and this is what you want on a worldwide basis. To me, that is the essence of evil.
Slavyanski ... I labored thru your diatribe against the US and found it wanting. I find you tiresome, closed minded and obviously a product of selective education.
- "Alas, there are people in the world who are not "indoctrinated" and do not get their information from "talking points" "
You're not one of them.
- "Those who are concerned with truth or history know better as to treat with the greatest suspicion, those who want to reduce complicated issues into slogans and sound bites."
Your whole rant is nothing more than a condensed Hugo Chavez commercial. Inother words, you sound like slogans and sound bites.
- "Islam is a problem because your government, in concert with several others, MADE it a problem."
Islam is a problem because of what it is. Islam made itself. Read history. Islam was a problem long before the US came into existence. For you to attribute what's happening today to some isolated instances is childish at best, exceedingly ignorant at the worst.
- "Throwing around meaningless words like "freedom" or "liberty" will not alter reality one bit. Actions have reactions."
Freedom and liberty are not meaningless to those that don't have them ... and throughout history people have died trying to preserve those two words. Yes, you're right ... all actions have reactions, just not the ones you're neccessarily prepared to see.
Now ... go away.
Wit ... I think Slavyanski is one of those new socialist comment bots. They can regurtitate seemingly endless amounts all the while saying nothing, and proving nothing.
Slavyanski need night in teepee with squaw "Horny Hairy Moose". She love Slavyanski long time. Him appreciate freedom and liberty after that.
Darwin, I just don't GET this fascination with socialism. With it being drummed into the young, not only here, but in Europe and elsewhere, I'm not sure we can withstand it.
It's very sad that we live in a time where the magnificent work of our Founding Fathers is reduced to a bunch of "rich white guys with slaves." They have no idea of the philosophy of Locke that it was based upon. The beauty of what they brought into existance.
The only thing that has taken the sheen off this country are the direct actions of the socialists and their constant chipping away at the foundations of our social structure. No good has come from any of it, yet they feel glee that their "work" has come such a long way.
This country is the last best hope of mankind and their seems to be a worldwide effort to destroy it.
"Slavyanski ... I labored thru your diatribe against the US and found it wanting. I find you tiresome, closed minded and obviously a product of selective education."
I am sure for you it constituted "labor".
"You're not one of them."
Brilliant argument!!
"Your whole rant is nothing more than a condensed Hugo Chavez commercial. Inother words, you sound like slogans and sound bites."
I do not follow the quasi-socialist policies of the populist Hugo Chavez; I stopped paying attention to him several years ago. The minute you decide to attempt to refute anything I have said about the US backing what you like to call "Islamofascism", feel free to do so.
"Islam is a problem because of what it is. Islam made itself. Read history. "
History written by whom exactly?
"Islam was a problem long before the US came into existence. For you to attribute what's happening today to some isolated instances is childish at best, exceedingly ignorant at the worst."
How did such backward people get the ability to strike at superpowers? Where did they get the training to wage modern war against a far superior opponent? They got it primarily from the Afghan jihad, openly funded by the US among other countries. In fact US-UK support for the jihadist was so open and blatant that Saudi Arabia was actually shamed into matching the support- they were behind, not ahead in terms of supporting the jihad.
As for the history of Islam, perhaps you'd like to compare it to the history of Christianity. Here's a spot of fun: Look up something called "El Requirimento". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Req...(Conquistadors)
"Freedom and liberty are not meaningless to those that don't have them"
They are indeed meaningless when people refuse to define precisely what they mean by freedom or liberty. Freedom for whom, freedom to do what exactly? Freedom is generally about as good as your means to actually exercise it. And who is to determine what is freedom exactly? Americans have the freedom to own nearly any kind of firearm in many states(in Arizona we could get anything, ditto Kansas). Europeans generally do not have that freedom. Conversely, many European countries have either legalized marijuana, or simply do not enforce the laws. Are they "more free"?
" ... and throughout history people have died trying to preserve those two words."
Mainly because somebody TOLD them they were dying for those words. Johnny Reb fought for "freedom", British and French imperial soldiers fought for "freedom" in WWI, the Nazis fought for "freedom". Communists fought for freedom in dozens of places. The point is it's subjective.
" Yes, you're right ... all actions have reactions, just not the ones you're neccessarily prepared to see."
Before you talk about selective vision you might want to have a look at the history of your jihadists first.
"Wit ... I think Slavyanski is one of those new socialist comment bots. They can regurtitate seemingly endless amounts all the while saying nothing, and proving nothing."
I haven't proved anything? Ok, are you saying that US support for jihadists, specifically the very same organization that would evolve into Al Qaeda(Maktyab al Khidimat), is a big hoax? Various US presidential administrations, their officials, and CIA agents working directly on those cases are all liars? Why hasn't even one of these guys been hauled before congress and questioned?
You're joking, right?
You're arguments on islam are specious - but I'll at least give you points for not citing Israel as the cause of everybodies woes. THEY do! If ONLY Israel were wiped off the map, everything would be coming up roses. Nevermind the BILLIONS they have squandered to keep their people in poverty and remain victims. But since their very religion is what keeps them in the crap-hole they NEED an outside entity to BLAME.
As to freedom - Why do you keep mixing Europe with us? If you don't know the meaning of freedom and liberty, you are truly a lost cause. Really!
We define freedom and liberty as defined by the Founding Fathers which means we have inalienable rights granted to us by our Creator and NOT by the government. We believe we should have freedom FROM an oppresive government. If those fellows were to see the bloated behemoth it has become they would be crying for another Revolution!
The checks and balances that they put in place have been chipped away at and we actually have men in robes legislating from the bench. Our supremes cite European and UN charters, rather than the Constitution.
What you want for us is to IMPOSE upon us an even greater government interference in our daily lives. You want everything we have to be dependant upon the government.
Governments, by their very nature are corrupt because of the power they wield - absolute power corrupts absolutely and giving that kind of power to any government will create yet another downtrodden serf class.
Nice debate, BTW. I disagree with everything you say, but at least your not the typical bomb thrower we've gotten so used to around here!
"You're arguments on islam are specious"
No, actually they are not.
" But since their very religion is what keeps them in the crap-hole they NEED an outside entity to BLAME."
I am not going to bring Israel into this, though it is an issue. However, I generally agree with the statement you made here, because this is how Islamic radicals recruit. They use the same tactics as Fascists or other populists(like Christian fanatics as well). Muslims in India live in extreme poverty, yet they got Imams screaming at them about conditions for the Palestinians. Anything to keep them from asking why they need to live in such squalor.
"As to freedom - Why do you keep mixing Europe with us? If you don't know the meaning of freedom and liberty, you are truly a lost cause. Really!"
This may surprise you, but America does not exist in a vacuum. The United States didn't invent this idea of freedom or liberty, and those ideas the US did bring onto the scene originated in Europe.
"We define freedom and liberty as defined by the Founding Fathers which means we have inalienable rights granted to us by our Creator and NOT by the government."
Well first of all that Creator most likely does not exist, so yes actually your rights are granted by the government. If someone violates your constitutional rights, it is the government, and not some Creator, which sets the issue right. If the government should violate your Constitutional rights, do you pray or get a lawyer?
" We believe we should have freedom FROM an oppresive government. If those fellows were to see the bloated behemoth it has become they would be crying for another Revolution!"
The only problem is that the US often supports oppressive governments in other countries. Why should the US be the only country to have freedom from such a government?
"The checks and balances that they put in place have been chipped away at and we actually have men in robes legislating from the bench. Our supremes cite European and UN charters, rather than the Constitution."
When dealing with international issues they do, which makes perfect sense. Also let me point out that the Constitution was intended as a living document, so constantly referring back to it or the Founding Fathers actually goes against what they intended in the first place.
"What you want for us is to IMPOSE upon us an even greater government interference in our daily lives. You want everything we have to be dependant upon the government."
Everything you do is dependent on the government already. What you call the private sector cannot exist without the state to legitimize it and protect it with the law and the organs to enforce that law.
"Governments, by their very nature are corrupt because of the power they wield - absolute power corrupts absolutely and giving that kind of power to any government will create yet another downtrodden serf class.
witness"
This notion treats the government as something apart from the normal class composition of society. Governments do not have absolute power anyway.
As mankind advanced to the point of the first class-based societies(societies with class divisions), a state became necessary. This entity changed as needed throughout history, but the basic premise is the same. In order to justify, and maintain, a society where one class exploits or dominates another, some other body is needed that can wield a monopoly on violence(police and military).
Someone earlier cited the issue of land ownership in Venezuela for example, so let us start with that. Governments nationalize land when they have a large population of landless peasants who have no land of their own. Is this "taking" land from the rich landowners? Yes, but we must ask what exactly makes it theirs in the first place, and is there a right to own land that you do not work, when there are thousands who would gladly work a plot of that land?
On the issue of land, people own it because a state grants and protects a right to own it if you can purchase it. This is the only reason why anyone owns any part of this earth. There is no reason why the vast resources of the US or any country should belong to a small minority, privately, other than owing to their personal privilege and a state which protects that privilege. It is just as easy to say that all the resources and land in America belong to the American people in common, and that the wealth generated that should also belong to the people in common.
"This may surprise you, but America does not exist in a vacuum. The United States didn't invent this idea of freedom or liberty, and those ideas the US did bring onto the scene originated in Europe."
Granted (Hello, Locke) but you keep mixing apples and oranges. Our form of government WAS a 1st in relation to the European monarchies. They were quite appalled and thought us a bunch of upstarts.
"Well first of all that Creator most likely does not exist, so yes actually your rights are granted by the government. If someone violates your constitutional rights, it is the government, and not some Creator, which sets the issue right. If the government should violate your Constitutional rights, do you pray or get a lawyer?"
I disagree, but your point is moot. The Founders DID Believe in something greater than themselves and their whole premise was that the government was nt in a position to grant rights already bestowed by the Creator. As for your arguments about violations of Contitutionals rights violations and the law - well, again moot. They were set up by the same said premise. In fact, most common laws were based on the Bible and the Ten Commandments. You may wish to dismiss such sentiments, but the people who created these laws were grounded in a Judeo-Christian background.
"The only problem is that the US often supports oppressive governments in other countries. Why should the US be the only country to have freedom from such a government?"
I also believe this to be specious. We would LOVE for everybody to have our freedom and liberty and we have made mistakes in the past in who we support - but it was usually because they opposed a nation (i.e. USSR) that was far worse. It's called political expediancy. Not pretty, but a fact.
"When dealing with international issues they do, which makes perfect sense. Also let me point out that the Constitution was intended as a living document, so constantly referring back to it or the Founding Fathers actually goes against what they intended in the first place."
Not acceptible and not their purpose. Their purpose is explicitly spelled out in the Constitution and they have overstepped their authority. Congress is the only entity allowed to deal with international treaties. By rights, the pres could ignore any such transgressions by the supremes. The fact he has not indicates a basic misunderstanding of the courts Contitutional power.
"Everything you do is dependent on the government already. What you call the private sector cannot exist without the state to legitimize it and protect it with the law and the organs to enforce that law."
What you refer to as government is based upon a fallacy. This discussion is based upon the federal governments outstretched grasp of power that was never intended for them. State and local governments have their place and are to be independant from this reach.
"This notion treats the government as something apart from the normal class composition of society. Governments do not have absolute power anyway."
Not true - this corruption is seen everywhere. Our government was supposed to made of of working stiffs from differnt segments of the population to give the term "representative" a real meaning. Back in the 60's they somehow turned a temporary job a lifetime term - and all lawyers, not working stiffs - now we have professional politicians and that's when things really started going downhill.
"On the issue of land, people own it because a state grants and protects a right to own it if you can purchase it. This is the only reason why anyone owns any part of this earth. There is no reason why the vast resources of the US or any country should belong to a small minority, privately, other than owing to their personal privilege and a state which protects that privilege. It is just as easy to say that all the resources and land in America belong to the American people in common, and that the wealth generated that should also belong to the people in common."
I've cut out the Venesuelan question - but just to start it - seizing land from someone who has legally bought it is "imperialistic." What gives the state the right to steal something someone has bought?
Property rights is the basis of our Constitution, it gives incentive to people to work FOR something. For the state to just TAKE something that someone has worked for and divy it out to people who have not earned it destroys all incentive to work for a goal. It destroys the soul, which all of mankind have.
It's been proven over and over again that people NEED to work. Our own pilgrims tried this when they first got here and found it didn't work. Then They parceled out portions of land for people to work themselves and they became productive. You may have some that WILL (by their own will, btw) not work, those people are NOT the responsibility of the whole. A hand-up is permissible. A hand out is counter productive.
Mechaniams have been in place for a long time for people to purchase land, but you are trying to judge people today by some old standard when people who inherited land were held in contempt by the very first Marxists. Tough. Those days are long gone, ther is no longer a landed gentry and the philosophy you are now proposing is theft. Stealing from productive people who have worked their entire lives to gains something and then some do-gooder comes along and TAKES it for the good of the poor slopes who will not exert themselves.
This is what we reject. You want to take from people what they have actually sweated and sacrificed for. You CAN'T do that! You CAN'T justify it.
Well! Good gracious! This has been lovely! I really DO disagree with everything you believe in - but you at least engage in discourse. VERY refreshing!
Have a very good night. Hope you have some more dialoge ready for me in the morning! Well, that's if I have break time at work! TTFN!
"Before you talk about selective vision you might want to have a look at the history of your jihadists first."
Your presumption that by giving financial aid, and in particular anti-aircraft missles, the United States gave rise to the islamofascism that we face today is just ... laughable.
There was money, aid and weapons coming from several countries, including the Gulf states and China ... not to mention money from bin Laden himself. International arms markets had field days. It also wasn't just the Afghan insurgents and aid that helped topple the USSR. It was a cash drain on an already burdened USSR, it was unpopular at home and the soldiers simply didn't want to fight or be there.
The rebirth of islam is much more nuanced than you apparently care to see. There is much more that has taken place to get us to the point we are today that either you're unaware of, or choose to disregard to get that all important "you gave the insurgents money and help in Afghanistan" bit in. I sincerely hope you're not patting yourself on the back. There are many things in play besides the US. Should you choose to expand your thinking and envision history's events in their totality, instead of focusing your thoughts on what we can all see is your hatred of the US, you might get a glimpse of something you may not want to see. The US is but a small part of something which would have happened whether we were involved or not.
As far as "freedom" goes ... I don't know where you live or what you do ... or if you have the slighest concept of the ideals behind the documents that formed the United States. They're not empty words, and they take enormous dedication and sacrifice to attain and maintain. The United States is not perfect, but it is the most successful experiment so far in the men establishing government and law.
The "Christianity is just as bad as islam" thing is tiresome. Can't you check this stuff out on your own?
Christianity ... that is, the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament, is so at odds with the teachings of islam that I find it strange that people would compare the two. There is nothing in the New Testament that commands anything ... no conquest (except of the spirit over the body), no forced conversion, no killings ... nothing. Anything you may want to bring up in reference to Christianity was committed by men, not divine dictate as with the koran.
Christ simply wanted his message to be taught to those who are ready to receive ... nothing more. The koran commands that islam be spread by force, justifies the killing of men, women and children and wants nothing less than complete world capitualtion.
There is nothing you've said that I haven't seen before, nothing that isn't anything more than some cheap attempt to blame the US, criticize it's citizens, blame us for the world's problems and bash Christianity.
If you can comment on something that hasn't been commented on before, or give fresh insight, or new perspective to today's issues and problems ... I'd be happy to hear it. However, you're beginning to sound just like a broken record ... one that I've heard many times before. Let's hear something new for a change.
"Your presumption that by giving financial aid, and in particular anti-aircraft missles, the United States gave rise to the islamofascism that we face today is just ... laughable."
Well Michael Scheuer didn't seem to think it too laughable. For one thing, this was not the only jihad where America supported the jihadists. It is only one where they provided actual material support. But it is also the most crucial because it taught certain fundamentalists how to wage a new war against the superpowers, and emboldened them to carry their war further.
"There was money, aid and weapons coming from several countries, including the Gulf states and China ... not to mention money from bin Laden himself. International arms markets had field days. It also wasn't just the Afghan insurgents and aid that helped topple the USSR. It was a cash drain on an already burdened USSR, it was unpopular at home and the soldiers simply didn't want to fight or be there."
Actually if you took the time to look at the military situation, you would see that the Soviets trounced the rebels almost non-stop until they received western weapons, much like the case with the NLF and NVA forces in Vietnam. Prior to this most of their victories were against the army of the DRA(Democratic Republic of Afghanistan).
"The rebirth of islam is much more nuanced than you apparently care to see. There is much more that has taken place to get us to the point we are today that either you're unaware of, or choose to disregard to get that all important "you gave the insurgents money and help in Afghanistan" bit in."
From a military standpoint, that is the most important issue. That and support for the barbaric Saudi state.
" I sincerely hope you're not patting yourself on the back. There are many things in play besides the US. Should you choose to expand your thinking and envision history's events in their totality, instead of focusing your thoughts on what we can all see is your hatred of the US, you might get a glimpse of something you may not want to see. The US is but a small part of something which would have happened whether we were involved or not."
I focus on the US because we are Americans discussing the actions of the US. Believe me the second US power slides beneath that of the EU or China I'll be ready with my criticism of their imperialism.
"As far as "freedom" goes ... I don't know where you live or what you do ... or if you have the slighest concept of the ideals behind the documents that formed the United States. They're not empty words, and they take enormous dedication and sacrifice to attain and maintain. The United States is not perfect, but it is the most successful experiment so far in the men establishing government and law."
Actually it isn't, because the US has a two-party oligarchy held in place by the electoral college,and there is no proportional representation. The fact that this has survived up to this point is mind-boggling.
"The "Christianity is just as bad as islam" thing is tiresome. Can't you check this stuff out on your own?"
Strawman argument here. You are trying to establish continuity between one trend of Islam today, and its entire history. If we were to do so with Christianity, you wouldn't like the result. The fact is that Christianity was more or less related to the death of 100 million people, and a Dark Age in Europe. Of course many of those people died directly from disease or starvation as a result of Christian practices, but since people like to do the same with Communism, I think they won't mind that kind of reasoning with Christianity.
"Christianity ... that is, the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament, is so at odds with the teachings of islam that I find it strange that people would compare the two."
It doesn't matter what the alleged teachings are, only what the results are.
"There is nothing in the New Testament that commands anything ... no conquest (except of the spirit over the body), no forced conversion, no killings ... nothing. Anything you may want to bring up in reference to Christianity was committed by men, not divine dictate as with the koran."
Yet with Christianity ALL of those things happened, with those "men" using the authority of the Church as their reason.
"Christ simply wanted his message to be taught to those who are ready to receive ... nothing more. The koran commands that islam be spread by force, justifies the killing of men, women and children and wants nothing less than complete world capitualtion."
Christianity spread by force as well. Look up a guy named Charlemagne for example. Christianity was responsible for just as many atrocities if not moreso. You also forget that many Islamic peoples converted peacefully, such as the various Khanates of central Asia.
"There is nothing you've said that I haven't seen before, nothing that isn't anything more than some cheap attempt to blame the US, criticize it's citizens, blame us for the world's problems and bash Christianity."
Ah yes, there is some kind of global conspiracy to frame America! Strange how you don't see people saying these things about Canada or Switzerland.
Also you show the standard persecution complex when I mention Christianity. I mentioned it in COMPARISON with your characterization of Islam; I did not bring it up out of the blue. I have plenty of stuff to say about Hinduism or Buddhism if you feel singled out.
" However, you're beginning to sound just like a broken record ... one that I've heard many times before. Let's hear something new for a change."
Apparently you haven't heard it enough.
Witness
Bush is a lib - he's a globalist - just like YOU!
I agree with you, Bush is a neo-liberal, like Clinton, Like Reagan, like Carter, like FDR, all neo-liberals. I'm not a neo-liberal, your closer to one than me. I reject all imperiliatic ventures disguised as spreading "democracy". I'm a socialist, not a liberal, again think Norway, that is the extent of my socialist beliefs. I call myself a "liberal" mockingly, since conservatives are so lost with pundit labels, they call everyone liberals, when the Republican party they so cherish is indeed neo-liberal itself.
The very essance of neo-liberalsm is imperialism. Look quickly at South America, the so called "liberal" Jimmy Carter, started funding the contras in Nicaragua to fight against the Sandinistas, Reagan continued and quickened the process. Overthrow the government that the people back, because it is more socialist, and replace it with a free market (actually trade friendly with America) government. We never spread "democracy", we install business friendly democracies, we did it in Nicaragua, El Salavador, and what we are doing in the Middle East is amlost identical. Iraq is indeed another Neo-liberal "democracy" based imperialistic venture. That is all it is.
You claim you are not a globalist, Witness, but you do not object to Iraq, it is a globalist, neo-liberal military action, just like South America. Any attempt to connect the Iraqi occupation to fighting terrorism is indeed absurd.
Truth be told, America was never set up to be a real democracy. I fight for progress, to turn America into a real democracy. I suppose you agree with the framers, like James Madison....
I can prove it to you, with a quote from James Madison.
‘In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The Senate, therefore, ought to be this body.’
Madison is saying the government MUST NOT represent the PEOPLE and instead work to protect the opulant, the rich.
In other words Madison is saying "give the people an illusion they are living in a democracy and have a say"
Just some things to think about. Try not to flip out while evaluating my claims, don't jerk your knee and shriek "commie", think about what I have pointed out, carefully.
"Well Michael Scheuer didn't seem to think it too laughable."
It's not laughable ... you are. To blame the US when in fact it was the invasion by the USSR that prompted an acceleration of an already present fundamentalist presence only proves how desperate you are to paint the US as the perpetrator of everything that is evil. Everyone's an expert with hindsight, including Scheuer.
bin Laden might never have gone to Afghanistan if the Soviets hadn't invaded and if the US didn't provide aid someone else would have.
"From a military standpoint, that is the most important issue. That and support for the barbaric Saudi state."
Given your singular focus on the United States, I don't think you're qualified to be speaking on the importance of issues from "a military standpoint".
No one I know here approves of the agreement between the US and the Saudi royals. Do you have some suggestions for severing that relationship?
"Actually it isn't, because the US has a two-party oligarchy held in place by the electoral college,and there is no proportional representation. The fact that this has survived up to this point is mind-boggling."
Actually it is. I have no problem seeing what can happen when men are allowed to decide their own destinies. However, there is no doubt we've strayed far from the original intent for this country and must work to reverse that trend. You on the other hand simply fail to see anything good and look for bad intent and evil in every shadow you see. No wonder your mind is boggled.
"Strawman argument here. You are trying to establish continuity between one trend of Islam today, and its entire history"
Uh ... no, I'm not. The trend of islam today is the same "trend" it's followed since it's inception. It was borne of violence to control, and spreads by violence to control. There is no difference between the islam of yesterday and today. There is no "good" islam. There are good people who have unfortunately been born into islam ... but islam itself was birthed to destroy and control the free will of men everywhere.
"The fact is that Christianity was more or less related to the death of 100 million people, and a Dark Age in Europe. Of course many of those people died directly from disease or starvation as a result of Christian practices, but since people like to do the same with Communism, I think they won't mind that kind of reasoning with Christianity."
Oh please ... the "dark ages" simply signify the transition from Roman rule to the various tribes inhabiting Europe and their struggle for dominance. There are other factors of course, but blaming Christianity is just another example of your selective education.
Isn't it just a tad too convenient for you? I mean ... your answer for everything is to blame the United States and Christianity. Simplistic no? At the very least, if you are going to use Christianity and the US as your scapegoats then at least acknowledge the positive as well. So far you have painted the US and Christianity as the bane of mankind, to which all would be well had the two never existed.
"It doesn't matter what the alleged teachings are, only what the results are."
It doesn't? I see how it works now ... if I teach you not to do something and you do it anyway, I get the blame. Nice, very convenient ... I'll have to remember that.
"Yet with Christianity ALL of those things happened, with those "men" using the authority of the Church as their reason."
Why don't you name ALL those things? While you're at it, name the tenet, or cite the scripture that commands those things be accomplished.
"Christianity spread by force as well. Look up a guy named Charlemagne for example"
How about you convey Charlemagne's reign for me ... it's your point, you prove it.
"You also forget that many Islamic peoples converted peacefully, such as the various Khanates of central Asia"
Converting "peacefully" is irrelevant. How many peoples have converted willingly? That is the question.
"Ah yes, there is some kind of global conspiracy to frame America! Strange how you don't see people saying these things about Canada or Switzerland."
Of course there is. America is the last bastion against the disease of the left. Most of the west has succumbed, the battle is still on for the US. You are clearly one who has been successfully led through an indoctrination of hate and contempt for the US and it's ideals. So successful in fact that you fancy yourself some sort of free thinker without any clue that you're simply repeating what's been taught to you. I've told you before you're no different than the hundreds of others I've read, listened to and talked with. Same message, new messenger, different day.
Canada and Switzerland don't threaten the spread of leftist ideals, the US does.
"Also you show the standard persecution complex when I mention Christianity. I mentioned it in COMPARISON with your characterization of Islam; I did not bring it up out of the blue. I have plenty of stuff to say about Hinduism or Buddhism if you feel singled out."
I didn't know there was a standard persecution complex. Why would you feel the need to compare Christianity to islam to begin with? Unless of course it's a standard rebuttal for any negative implications of islam.
You've been trained well, and obviously believe every word that you write.
"Apparently you haven't heard it enough"
Oh I've heard enough alright ... "US bad, Christianity bad ... islam equivalent ... islam good" Blah, blah, blah.
Darwin tries, but as usual resorts to humiliating himself, with the stale, trite, delirously stupid remarks that always make the enlightened individual ignore the right wing. More empty, meaningless platitudes from an individual who clearly has no grasp on reality.
Here is the wingnuttery, which instantly gets conservatives ignored, dismissed and laughed at by rational thinkers:
America is the last bastion against the disease of the left. Most of the west has succumbed, the battle is still on for the US. You are clearly one who has been successfully led through an indoctrination of hate and contempt for the US
Empty platitudes, empty hollow words. The rest of the world is making progress towards TRUE democracies, as in government for the people. LEFT WING democratic societies are what keeps a nation from becomming an "Islamo-fascist" state. Your ideology is more in line with an Islamic theocratic state, you share a lot in common with the Islamists. The simpleton attitude "we are best" "my religion is best" is exactly the mindset of a regressive far right, Islamic theocratic leader.
Left = enlightenment
right= dark ages
you share a lot with the Terrorists, a lot of similiar ideas. Indeed Iran is a right wing nation, Egypt, all theocratic nation's are RIGHT WING. Darwin, I suppose wants to take us to the darek age as well, only with Jesus instead of Mohammad.
This is indisputable, the left stands for enlighenment, democracy and equality, the right stands for regressive knee-kerk reactionary insanity.... think Islamic theocracies, this is a right wing society and I conclude Darwin wants us to be like a theocratic, right wing Islamic nation.
Darwin said:
however, there is no doubt we've strayed far from the original intent for this country and must work to reverse that trend.
wrong again. We are living the exact society the framers wanted, a pusedo-democracy, designed to protect the opulant. See my above post. The goal is to abandon the framers intent and turn America into a real democracy.
"Darwin tries, but as usual resorts to humiliating himself, with the stale, trite, delirously stupid remarks that always make the enlightened individual ignore the right wing. More empty, meaningless platitudes from an individual who clearly has no grasp on reality." SL
And there goes any hope of thoughtful discourse.
This is why we were so snarky to you slav.......
BTW - I'm afraid I must agree with Darwin in his rebuttle to you. It really does get quite dreary to go over and over and over the same old tired dried out old diatribe.
It is very discouraging that people think there is absolutely no redeeming quality about our country.
BTW - Attacking Christianity is easy - everybody does it and was fortold in our Good Book.
spirituallibtard: "The rest of the world is making progress towards TRUE democracies, as in government for the people"
Yeah? Please name some of those outstanding examples of shining democracies.
"We are living the exact society the framers wanted, a pusedo-democracy, designed to protect the opulant"
Nitwit ... The United States is a Constitution-based federal republic with a strong democratic tradition. This is the country where you can be born in an outhouse, have no shoes to wear and end up being President or fabulously wealthy all depending on what YOU do. If your goal in life is to live under a bridge drinking gut rot and eating mission soup ... you can do that too.
"LEFT WING democratic societies are what keeps a nation from becomming an "Islamo-fascist" state"
Perhaps no one has informed the European leadership of this. They better get on the stick.
spirituallibtard: "This is indisputable, the left stands for enlighenment, democracy and equality, the right stands for regressive knee-kerk reactionary insanity.... think Islamic theocracies, this is a right wing society and I conclude Darwin wants us to be like a theocratic, right wing Islamic nation."
The "enlightenment" the left stands for includes silencing it's opponents. In fact the left is so enlightened they routinely refuse to have conservative speakers at university campuses, or if they do, the speakers are assaulted and shouted down. That's your version of enlightenment. The drones must not hear opposing views, they may lose their brainwashing.
The "equality" the left stands for includes placing people into subcategories of humans. No one can just be an American, they must be treated as zoo animals and taken care of ... especially "minorities" who to the left seem to be unable to take care of, or think for themselves and must be housed, fed and told who to vote for. Of course any of these minorities that dare to think for themselves are immediately banished from the left's fold of "equality" and labeled such things as "Uncle Tom".
Ah the left ...
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! "Spiritual Libtard". LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!!! "Spiritual" Libtard... OMG.. that is classic.
Darwin
they routinely refuse to have conservative speakers at university campuses, or if they do, the speakers are assaulted and shouted down.
Most "conservative speakers" lack the level of sanity to speak at a higher learning institute. Most conservative mouthpieces are simply jokers making money off a gimmick. Coulter? Jonah Goldberg? David Horowitz? These are the clowns that get shouted down at college campus gatherings. They lower the level, do not know what they are talking about, and belong on a public access television show, not representing "conservatism".
If more conservatives had ideas like Pat Buchannan and Ron Paul(ideas opposed to shrieking about liberals), people would take them seriously. Shrieking about how the "left" is evil , gets you the pie in the face. Simple as that, give them substance and new ideas instead of platitudes and they will get treatd with respect.
Today's conservatives are too much like neo-liberals (Reagan-Thather neo-liberals), they are so similiar in their agenda it is not funny. Was Reagan that different than Carter, was Bush that different than clinton? All carry the same vision of a global world, where cheap labor and resources from other countries are OURS. The attitude that WE OWN EVERYTHING, is neo-liberal, this is their doctrine. South America is not capable of having leadership that the people selected (according to the neo-liberal agenda) so we must give them leadership willing to let us rape their resources. Carter=Reagan=Bush=Clinton=Bush. All have the same agenda, the global econony, which leaves no room for the laboror, the worker and the poor.
Sread democracy by covert wars and funding governments that are willing to let America(and global companies) own their resources.....
Give us a conservative with the guts to stand up to the neo-liberal global agenda and they will be allowed to speak.
Jenn; I picked that name just for you.
I knew you would get a laugh out of it
Get real you nut. You don't decide who and can't speak based on their political views. You fucking little fascist.
I'm not deciding anything, I'm telling you why schools opt out of psuedo-conservative speakers, such as the ones I mentioned above. Not fascism, it is called meeting criteria. Most speakers who claim they are conservatives are not conservatives, they are just hacks playing a little part( not experts, but jokers, think Glen Beck)
Real conservatives with ideas are always allowed to speak on campus.
And when they get booed off stage, the students are simply expressing free speech. If Coulter is allowed to speak, students should be allowed to boo. Your objecting to the right to boo? I'm the fascist? obviously you are the fascist, look how easy it comes out.
Impossible for me to be a fascist, I'm on the left, fascism is a trait of the right.
I don't care who speaks or where they are invited. I would invite any real conservative to speak if I ran a campus, but no I would not invite pundit hacks, to cheerlead for the RNC and recite "lib lib lib". Pundit blather has no place in a higher learning atmosphere, it belongs on the T.V. Horowitz, coulter, Goldberg and the others have no place at a university, either does Jerry Springer, Al Franken or Keith Olberman for than matter. Pundits are not political experts.
The yodeling and tap dancing spirituallibtard: "Impossible for me to be a fascist, I'm on the left, fascism is a trait of the right."
State control of every aspect of your life is not a function of the right dipwad. Controlling speech and thought is a premise of the left, not right. Fascism is predicated on the the premise that the individual is subordinate to the interests of the state. That is not a "right" philosophy.
In other words ... Hilter was a lefty. Get it? I want less government, less intrusion, more personal responsibility.
You're a junior brownshirt ... you don't see anything wrong with subduing speech if it doesn't fit your agenda.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! "Spiritual Libtard". LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!!! "Spiritual" Libtard... OMG.. that is classic.
Jenn
Leave it to Miss Jenn to bring everybody back down to earth with the obvious absurdity of it all!
Real conservatives with ideas are always allowed to speak on campus.
SL
Your premise is ridiculous! What you people do is PREVENT free speech. Those people who bum-rush a stage, assault speakers or boo them so they are not ALLOWED to speak aren't practicing free speech. They were NOT invited to these events and prevented the people who were invited the chance to hear a speaker they had INVITED.
The left is fascism personified. Your lefty masters have lied to you by telling you Hitler was to the right. Hitler and Stalin were buddies - until Hilter decided to renege on their non-aggression pact, that is.
The philosophy of the left is facism/stalinism/totalitarianism/maoism/socialism/
communism/marxism: all different names for the same philosophy. The absolute control of every aspect of a persons life using the full-force of the government/state.
Fascism has nothing to do with socialism. Hitler was a fascist, Hitler was also a free market capitalist, not a socialist. Mussilini was a right wing fascist, fascism is indeed a right wing ideology, and always has been.
Fascism is the merger of state with big business, this is not socialism, but simply what it is FASCISM, a far right wing form of government.
Nobody would in any circles(except a wing nut in denial) consider Musilini or Hitler a leftie, they are on the right, the far far far right....
Fascism is a trait of the right. You claiming it isn't, does not make it so. Fascism is the furthest right one can achieve.
Want to talk about the left? O.k, communism is as far left as you can get, no kidding. Communism can inded be totalatarian, so can fascism.
Totalitarianism is neither left or right, it is a society where cerfews exist, the right to privacy does not exist etc etc. Totalitarianism can occur in a fascist right wing regime or a left wing communist regime.
Rudy Guiliani would have turned America into a totalitarianism state, and he is far from a communist. Stalin was a totalitarianism, he was on the left, Mussilni was totalitarianism he was on the right.
Look at it this way, it is time to grow up on your part. No offense. Communism is an extreme form of socialism. Socialism works and it is working in Norway, Switzerland, Canada, Netherlands. Get socialism out of your head when refering to oppressive forms of government like totalitarianism or fascism. Socialism provides freedom for all, only difference a government that is there for the people, a government that WORKS for us, not just big business. Fascist governments work for business and business only. Fascism is an extreme form of capitalism. This is the way it will be explained to you by any political science teacher, left or right. This is simply the way it is.
Look at it this way. The far right has resulted in Mussilini and Hitler, the far left resulted in Pol Pot and Stalin. I fully understand Stalin and Pol Pot are examples of the left gone wrong. It is time you come to grips that the far right gone wrong is Hitler and Mussilini, not a big deal, after all Stalin killed more than Hitler.
Come to grips with it, I'm fine with saying Stalin was a far left communist and Pol Pot was a ultra-far left communism.... Now Witness
repeat after me, Hitler was a far far right wing fascist. It does not hurt, and it does not make you a fasicst either. The same way I can admit Stalin is on the left and it does not make me a totalitarianism communist like Stalin was.
Just keep the term socialism out of the equation when discussing opressive government, the socialist countries I mentioned give individuals more personal freedom than we have in America. In a social-democracy you have the best of both worlds, a government that works for ALL OF US, universal healthcare, free education for all and individual liberty and the ability to become rich.
Witness, your not a lost cause, you just have to stop jerking your knee and relax.
I don't care if Hitler and Stalin are buddies, Hitler was on the right, Stalin was on the left. Clinton and Bush are buddies, ohhh wait they are both on the right!!! one of my best friends is on the right, it does not make me a right winger simply because we are buddies
Libturd
You obviously fell asleep in you political science class. The world of politics is not a line going right to left or left to right. It is a circle where the people in the "center" are at the top and the far right and far left become one at the bottom.
SL - You're obtuse and crazy. Nuff said...
WMD: "It is a circle where the people in the "center" are at the top and the far right and far left become one at the bottom"
Very nice WMD, and descriptive. Maybe the spirtuallibtard can now grasp how he and his companions have become what they say they aren't.
Chris, you left EMASCULATED COWARD.
I WAS IN VIETNAM @ 18 yo + 2mos. I flew doorgunner in Huey Iroquois "H" models & OH6A Cayuse aka LOH's. What were you doing at that age? I bet still breast feeding off of mommy, lol.
We were in Nam to free the South Vietnamese &/or stop or slow down the spread of left wing socialist Communism thru SE Asia & the S. Pacific Isands.
Us, Nam vets also put a more than a few nails in the coffin called the U.S.S.R.
I know all about war. I HATE WAR. But I am also know when war is brought upon you, you can NOT hide your head in the sand, as KKKlintoon the DRAFT DESERTING COWARD did. We attacked time after time. You have to FIGHT for your FREEDOM or you will NOT have freedom or you will be DEAD.
You are as DECIEVED as your anti Vietnam TRAITORS parents. North Vietnam is even admitting we LOST the war AT HOME by the ANTI-PEACE activists. You were all allies of the North Vietnamese.
BTW J F Kennedy started the war & made a mess of by LB Johnson, 2 TRAITORKKKRATS.
Iraq is at the HEART of the WAR on TERROR.
HEY you dumb left wing EMASCULATED COWARD we
have NOT had an attack on America or any American embacies since we went to Iraq. This is not cuz terrorists are nice guys.
IT IS CUZ WE KICKED THEIR ASSES from one end of Iraq to the other just like we did with the Viet Cong aka GOOKS, lol.
This is FIRST HAND knowledge not second hand PROPAGANDA.
Namvet
Calm down. Both parties are the same and have the same agenda, imperialism, Democrats and Republicans. Lyndon Johnson was no diffrent than Reagan nor Bush. Same agenda, globalism and imperialistic conquest.
Does not matter that we have not had an attack since 9-11, consider it luck. Bush failed America prior to 9-11, abandoned all counter terrorism activity, that Clinton established and hired Ashcroft as an Attorney general, who was busy trying to bring back anti-pornogaphy laws from the early 70's. They ignored terorism, called Clinton "obsessed with Bin Laden", these are the exact words from John Ashcroft. Trust me, I'm no clinton apologist, but to his credit he identifed the problem of islamo-maniaics, and the incomming Bush administration literally mocked Bin Laden, and thought clinton was crazy for focusing on terrorism. History is history, facts are facts. Stop being married to a political party, Bush failed America prior to 9-11. History and indisputable FACTS.
Deal with it.
I may be a Democrat but I'm not married nor obligated to defend my party when they screw up. I reject LBJ's war efforts, I reject most Bill Clinton policies, rejected Carter's obsession with squashing socialist movements in South America as well. I was considering voting for Ron Paul and will vote for Paul if he runs as a 3rd party candidate and he is a conservative, and I'm a socialist leaning democrat, still America needs a man like Ron Paul, who stands for actual change and empowerment of American industry. Some of Paul's views are close to mine. Nothing is black and white. Stop taking party over country. "R" and "D" are very similiar
Now Namvet, divorce your political party, your blinded by party affiliation. Bush failed America on 9-11, you do not have to be a "lib' to grasp it
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