Texican Tattler
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Nice pics, Convict #10982347
jr |
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05.12.06 - 10:15 am | #
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turn to the riiight!
catfish |
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05.12.06 - 10:26 am | #
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Dang, was there a rule against smiling?? Good post - are you going to do Miami Vice next, for those who love to point the gun at their feet?
thegirl |
05.12.06 - 11:07 am | #
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Girl,
He is a very serious man. 
Big D |
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05.12.06 - 11:20 am | #
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My god you are a sexy beast when you look all serious like that.....  
Mike |
05.12.06 - 11:22 am | #
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gads.
catfish |
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05.12.06 - 12:47 pm | #
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The second pic makes me want to take similar pictures with the caption "Break in, and this will be the last thing you see"
Son of Adam |
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05.12.06 - 1:59 pm | #
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Jaclyn Smith is now my 2nd favorite Angel. Can we get you into a striped one-piece, I wonder?
The recoil thing is funny.
When I first started being "trainable" in pistol shooting, I was shooting a Ruger P89 (9mm). When I would fire a round downrange, the muzzle would jump up about 4-5" between shots.
The guy who was working me stopped me and said something to the effect of:
"Dude. That is like a 9mm, not a .44 magnum."
I never had any problems with muzzle rise after that.
It must have been some sort of weird psychological effect.
Porta's Cat |
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05.12.06 - 3:15 pm | #
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Just watched my self shoot behind barricade (on video) and when I move from one side to the other, I do a Charlies Angel.
Never even thought about it.
Need to do a "muzzle to floor" when I have to move close to a wall like that.
Cool.
Porta's Cat |
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05.12.06 - 3:18 pm | #
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Porta's Cat,
You can achieve cover without crowding cover. If you have to shoot from both sides, stand back just far enough that you can swing the gun to the opposite side without changing your stance. Tactically speaking, sticking your gun around a barricade is bad because somebody might be on the other side to grab it. Same thing if you stick it through a window or a port. If the barricade is not wide enough, bring the gun in, like Catfish shows in the second picture. That way, if you need to pull the trigger, it is still pointed downrange in the direction of the threat. Muzzle to floor is as bad a Charlie's Angel. Think muzzle to threat.
D
Big D |
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05.12.06 - 4:32 pm | #
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Take it from a guy with more than his fair share of falls with a gun in his hand (at least 5 times that I can think of), and has the scars to prove it - you do NOT want your gun pointing some random direction, and you MUST ingrain trigger discipline by practicing.
Firearms (yes, even Glocks) will ONLY discharge when someone pulls the trigger, or there's a firearm malfunction involving STUPID.
In fact, just Wednesday night, I was SO for a stage where a guy was loading his 1911, and had some sort of issue, where his hammer was down, even after he loaded the gun (1911 hammers should stay in the "cocked" position). He grabbed the hammer, and before I could stop him, it fell and he negligently discharged his firearm. Ironically (and thankfully), his finger was off the trigger, and the gun was pointed downrange. It put a nice .45 hole in my barricade, and made my ears ring a little (I had my electronic ears off at that exact moment - ow), and I might have soiled myself a little, but the only damage done was to the barricade and his ego when I disqualified him.
He apparently had done some home-made trigger work, and the hammer was following the slide (also a bad plan, btw).
The lesson: keep the gun pointed downrange at all times, only have your finger on the trigger when engaging a target, don't do your own gunsmithing, and nobody gets hurt.
jr |
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05.12.06 - 4:44 pm | #
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There has been a lot of changes in the way people are taught/trained to orient their firearms when not "on target" over the last years. In fact, Texas DPS has changed from a "muzzle to floor" orinetation to a muzzle up orientation during their CHL qualification in just the last year, IIRC. Basically they want you "on target" at all times now. Mostly ebcause they want you on target all times seeing it as a threat at all times.
But, the fact remains that at some point in time in most any "shooting scenario" you will be in the postion where the weapon is unholstered, but is not "on target". At that time, a muzzle down orientation (of some sort) is appropriate. This would also be true in a real life situation where you were "weapons hot" with friendlies who would come in and out of your potential line of fire. Maintaining "position two" (in Catfish's pics above) at all times, in such a case, can put friendlies in danger, trigger discipline or not.
So, a muzzle to floor orientation is appropriate in some cases. Or "muzzle lowered" if nothing else. While the idea of thinking about "the 2nd floor" is valid in terms of the "Charlies Angel", the truth is that no matter where you point the muzzle, there is a potential victim(s) in the line of fire, whethere it is 2nd floor, basement, or room next door or across the hall. I think the idea of "muzzle down" is valid in this case because there at least is a floor of some type between the muzzle and the person down below, and nothing but about 4" of air between the muzzle and your face in the other.
One practice, or philsophy, that needs to be ingrained OUTSIDE of the comp shooting is that the "comp shooter" DOES have "downrange" to orient. In "real life" there is no down range. The "down range" is 360 degrees. I know of no scenarios in IDPA (correct me if wrong, though) where the target is found behind the shooters inital forward motion, or whre the shooter engages targets in 360 degrees. Tactically, the shooter needs to understand that (in real life)the "target" can exist in 360 degree and muzzle discpline also needs to exist 360 degrees, whether it be up or down.
So... I will defend the "skill" or discpline of movement (in some cases and situations) with the muzzle in a lowered orientation. I would hope if you followed me down a hallway with a pistol, shotgun, or rifle that you would have it oriented some other place than in the middle of my back.
Shooting barricade is more than just "shooting through a doorway". It is also shooting from a wall, or corner, or tree, etc. If you can be reasonably certain that no one is there to "grab your gun" it is better to bring the pistol to bear "outside the wall" to acheive a greater range of engagement, than to keep it close to you (as you would do in a hallway in the Catfish #2)) so as not to need to expose your body to a great degree.
All are skills that need to be learned and understood. Nothing is wrong with what Catfish is doing, and I was able to check myself in something I was doing in ignorance, more than stupidty. Ignorance in terms I would have said "don't do that", but never really thought I was doing it. But, the "#2 postion" is only valid when you are engaging a target or are under immediate threat. Practice movment in both fashions is my suggestion.
Porta's Cat |
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05.12.06 - 6:16 pm | #
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Sorry, Cat - I don't buy it.
I'm in control of my trigger, nobody else. If you shoot the floor, or ground, or ceiling, or whatever, you can't be responsible for where the bullet ends up.
If I have my muzzle pointed ahead (whichever direction that is), I'm prepared to engage the threat, and I'm in control of where that bullet's going. Period.
If there's no threat, my gun's probably holstered anyway. In any event, my finger's off the trigger, with no way for the firearm to discharge.
If my gun is unholstered, there's a perceived threat, so it's no-bullshit time, and the gun is pointed ahead.
I am NOT going to waste time raising or lowering my firearm.
jr |
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05.13.06 - 7:01 am | #
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I'll agree with both JR and PC here. If I'm solo and percieve a threat, it's no BS time and the gun will be on target or damn near close. I know that it is damn near heresy to say, but there are some people out there that I trust with my life, and I conversely also trust them to sweep me with the barrel of their weapon in a SHTF moment and we're acting as a team. When you're nuts to butts in a hallway hauling ass in, the guys I'm with I trust, and that's that. But to be honest, they earned it and there's damn few of them out there.
If I'm working in a team environment and transitioning down a hallway, the gun will be lowered slightly, and off tangent of my teammate in front of me. The gun will be lowered slightly to the point than I'm not looking through the sights and getting tunnel vision, but's that's another thread. 
And PC, glad that you noticed and that I could help you think of things - the same way you get me thinking on your blog!!!
catfish |
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05.13.06 - 8:04 am | #
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I'm also going to have to disagree. The gun is always oriented towards the target.
After spending a very informative weekend in a CQB class with the 'Fish, you learn really quick, keep the gun pointed where you are looking. And this class was a complete 360 degree class, shooting was done in all directions.
Only the participants and the instructor were permitted in the hot range area. And we swept, covered, pointed and even shot towards each other. Saw two really cool things happen, one was watching someone take out a threat target that was directly UNDER Catfish's barrel of his rifle. About 6-8 inches from his leg (and family jewels!). Number two was watching a live fire drill that involved hostages and watching the color drain from one particularly smartassed hostage as he was looking down the wrong end of an AR-15.
The name of the game is to eliminate any threat to you or your Team before he can do any damage. The only way to do that is to quickly engage that threat. Keep your gun up and stay in the fight.
Dan |
05.14.06 - 1:52 pm | #
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Very nice and good comments. Thanks! My CCL instructor taught this with the added benefit that it makes a center-mass shot relatively simple, even under duress. I'm also very sensitive to the idea that someone will grab my gun from around a corner or doorway as I'm clearing my unoccupied first floor apt. after a false alarm (happens too often, gotta get that wiring straight), so close to the body and barrel on potential threat is definitely the way to go. Been shooting for 40 years and never an AD, BTW. It's all about paying attention.
AyUaxe |
05.17.06 - 6:21 pm | #
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In addition, if you lock your elbows in, just above each respective hip bone, the gun is damn near impossible to take away. It makes you look constipated, but hey, you gotta have your priorities. 
catfish |
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05.17.06 - 9:41 pm | #
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Commenting by HaloScan
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