Share your thoughts...or, in the case of moonbats, your unintelligble grunts!
There's our favorite POW on the wrong side of an issue AGAIN.
What about the Chinese Delegation?
Why don't we ask if they mind?
Maybe Hugo Chavez might have some input too.
The letter I sent to Senator Martinez (RINO-FL)
Sir:
I read your statement outlining your position on illegal immigration. I plan on fighting to keep the Senate's grotesque plan from ever seeing the light of day. I have contacted my Congressman, and on my blog, I have encouraged all my readers to do the same.
We need to secure the borders...period. The Senate bill does not do that. The border with Mexico, where the vast majority of illegal immigrants invade us from, is about 1500 miles or so in length. The Senate bill only puts up about 370 miles of fence/wall...and ONLY if Mexico gives us the green light! But why am I telling you that? You voted FOR that amendment that cedes our soverignty to the wishes of Mexico!
Did al Qaeda contaminate the water supply of the Senate building? Because it sure seems like insanity rules the day and common sense is as dead as the 1994 Contract with America.
Also, please spare my intelligence the insult and do NOT tell me about the "they must learn English, pay back taxes, go back and apply to come here, etc." crap, OK? There is NO enforcement mechanism of such a ludicrous set of rules. You're depending on people to keep their word, which by virtue of their having broken the law, they have demonstrated that honor means very little.
Senator, I fought like hell to get you elected over Betty Castor in 2004. I found your life's story to be uplifting and inspirational. However, like many other DC-bound politicians, you lost sight along the way about where you came from and what you were being sent to DC for.
I will not be supporting the GOP in this year's race until the party develops a pair of "stones" and (a) faces the illegal immigration issue the SAME way as we Americans OVERWHELMINGLY see it; and (b) cuts the wasteful spending and actually LOOK like fiscal "conservatives" for once.
I disagree with Bill Nelson vehemently, but at least he acts like a Democrat because he IS one. You, sir, have no such excuse. I can envision few cirumstances under which I could ever vote for you again, and will likely actively campaign for your opponent in 2010. Fortunately for you, that still leaves you a full 4 years to keep thumbing your nose at me and other loyal supporters who worked tirelessly to put you in office. As of now, we have buyer's remorse.
Sincerely and lividly,
Jonathan Leffingwell
A most excellent letter Jon!!
Thank you, sir!
There's our favorite POW on the wrong side of an issue AGAIN.
Seems to be the case more often than not, huh?
McCain for president! ah, of MEXICO!
There must have been some kind of attack on the water in D.C. - something that affects the right side of the brain, because most of our war heros end up leaning left!
McCain has lost all credibility in my book.
At least my two Senators (Shelby and Sessions) were on the right side of the vote. They must be importing Alabama water while in D.C.
I'll call Senator Dodd's office, but that's always been pretty useless. You usually get a "yeah...yeah...yeah" response from his staff.
A little off topic: But with the parade this weekend I have to point out that while Rosa DeLauro walks the entire 5 mile route in 4 inch high heels, Dodd parks his fat ass on the truck and strenuously lifts his arm to wave once in a while.
alli, since the subject is now Senator Dodd, I have a question......is he the last of the line?
The reason I ask is that he is a "legacy" senator, having inherited the office from his father. It's a shame that politics is a family business in so many cases, elected offices are passed on or in the Kennedy case, elected on name recognition alone.
When I was a young man back in the 50's, I took a Hunter Safety class in my home state. I clearly remember the instructor telling us that Senator Dodd (present Senator's old man) was the biggest opponent of the Second Amendment in the US.
I would love to see a Kennedy brat and Lord knows there's plenty of them, wake up one day and say "damn, this liberal democrat crap just sux, I'm gonna be a conservative!!!" But, it's one of those things that's never gonna happen.
I agree this is disgusting to turn over our National sovereignty to another country. Those senators should be ashamed to pass that amendment to the bill. I hope the conference committee will dump it in on the final version of it.
I have one question though to pose to everyone. What is the solution to this immigration problem if it's not Amnesty? It needs to be a solution that doesn't cost the American Taxpayer Billions, doesn't raise the price of Americas cheep food or causes inflation.
I think we all can agree 1st we need to secure our border to make sure this doesn’t ever happen again. Then we enforce the laws and fine those business owners who knowingly higher illegals. Then what next with the 12 million who are here? Should we round them up, creating an underground movement and sending millions into hiding? A round up that will tax our police and other enforcement agencies as well as the over worked immigration courts? If there is a solution other than Amnesty and a guest worker program that meets these needs I'd like to be enlightened. I haven’t heard another reasonable solution yet, just a lot of people complaining and marching on both sides.
It seems the senate tries so hard to make sure they do absolutely nothing.
Steve,
Your question about "What to do about the illegal immigration problem if not amnesty?" is a good question, if I understand it properly.
You think we should secure the border first and foremost. I agree, 100%. Then we enforce the laws and fine businesses who knowingly hire illegals. Again, I agree 100%. What angers me is that there is widespread agreement on those two issues, across both major parties, yet they insist on making a bill "comprehensive"! Why?
If I have two tasks to do, and one of them is easy while the other is really hard, I get the easy one out of the way first. In the case of the illegal immigration debate, the easy part is passing legislation that covers what most of us agree on (border security and enforcement, and law enforcement against employers and illegals already here). This "catch and release" sh#t that currently happens when illegals are snared has to stop.
A colleague of mine had a good analogy about the absurdity of a "comprehensive" bill:
Let's say you're in your house during a bad thunderstorm and a part of your roof blows off, thus allowing massive amounts of water to seap into the house. Do you (a) try to plug the hole first, or (b) take no action until you figure out how to both stop the water AND clean up your soaked house? For those of you on the left, I'll answer that for you: you plug the hole first, and worry about the cleanup afterwards.
As for what to do about the 12 million illegals already here? It's probably not realistic to hunt them all down and deport them all. So, let's deport the ones we know are here whenever we do happen to find them.
I want to address the "creating an underground movement and sending millions into hiding" part. Have you seen the protests of all these illegal aliens? If that's "underground" and "hiding", then I'm a ham sandwich. As for creating an "underground movement", it's actually quite simple: if we dry up the jobs by enforcing the law against employers of illegals (and REALLY stick it to their pocketbooks), the illegals will have no incentive to come or to stay.
The biggest problem with amnesty is that it makes a mockery of those who followed the process and rules to come here. Bush's idea of "reward those who have been here the longest" is absurd. By that logic, we should release serial killers like Manson who killed many moons ago, but fry the guy who killed one person yesterday.
Reagan signed an amnesty bill 20 years ago, and it opened the floodgate to the illegals crossing the border.
My suggestion about dealing with the illegals here: do nothing differently. By that, I mean that we seal the borders, crack down on employers, deport those that we happen to find (no need to actively hunt them down, since many turn up anyway), and that's it. The jobs they seek will eventually wither away from them (since bosses will be too scared to risk it), and their incentive to be here will go away...and so will they.
I would add some additional attributes; like requiring states to deny welfare entitlements, eh, I mean benefits to illegals by requiring applicants for welfare, food stamps, low income housing, Medicaid, etc., to present proof of citizenship. (Most birth certificates for those still living today are verifiable by the issuing county.)
I'd also subscribe to denying automatic citizenship to the off spring of illegals born in the states. If the parent(s) are in the US legally, that is a different matter. However, illegal aliens should not be given a free ride because they procreate while on our soil.
Seal the border, prosecute employers, deport when found, deny welfare entitlements, eh, I mean benefits, and deny automatic citizenship to illegals off spring born on our soil. There is plenty of incentive there for the vast majority to return to their homeland. Oh, yes, I'd also declare a moratorium on the “guest worker” program.
What about “all the jobs Americans won’t do?” Start decreasing welfare by the amount paid to those willing low wage earners and see if some of our Americans aren’t willing to work for a living vs. being subsidized by the government to not work. In fact it would be cheaper for the taxpayers if the government subsidized the low wage jobs vs. providing a livable welfare check.
Turning national sovereignty to another country..thats tantanmount to suicide hun...great post and keep up the good fight eh? 
Good posts Jon and OS. I think you two have hit the proverbial nail with both heads!
I also think you two ought to throw your hats into the ring in 08. Nobody else has an idea on how to solve our border/illegals problem and here you've just provided a common-sense approach. Maybe that's why we don't see one coming from Congress. They obviously have more dollars than sense!
And it's just my opinion but I don't think these illegals want to be U S citizens at all but only work here and get all the aforementioned freebies, medical, housing, et al.
I agree with you both and wish our elected officials would listen to your posts.
How about this for one of those "It would be great but never gonna happen" ideas.
BUILD A FRIGGING FENCE!!! Make illegal border crossing a felony!
Then put a bounty on illegals (alive only), it would open up a whole new cottage industry. Double the payoff for a legal immigrant that brings in an illegal, they would know who they are and where they were hanging out better then anyone. Triple it for any illegal that has an outstanding warrant or criminal record.
Bounty hunters would have to be bonded like bail enforcement agents already are and have arrest authority for illegals.
Find the biggest, ugliest, nastiest SOB in the game, wife/girlfriend with big boobs, give him a mean-assed name, i.e., "Wolf, The Bounty Hunter" and sell it to A&E.
Lee,
I'm not usually one to knock a persons right to free speech (or make a fool of ones self), but that is one of the stupidest and racist comments I have ever read at this website by a non-moonbat. You usually make good points, but WOW! This is just dumb and not well thought out. Its ideas like that that causes liberals to call conservatives racist. I guess that's what I get for posing a question.
Thanks for the intelligent responses Johnny and OS. I've heard both of those ideas from Newt a week ago on Meet the Depressed. There needs to more thought put into it before Congress finalizes the Bill. Maybe two separate Bills. One to strengthen the Border and INS and another addressing the Immigration/Amnesty issue and the employer issue. Listening to Congressman Sensenbrenner (excuse the spelling) it looks like the Senate Bill is currently dead in the House or will be significantly reworked in conference. But as he said, that's what Conference Committee is for.
BTW tnjack, I agree with you I think we (Americans) may be a little arrogant to think that all of these illegals want to be citizens.
Steve: All of that (except for "BUILD A FRIGGING FENCE!!! Make illegal border crossing a felony!" was written with my tongue firmly implanted in my cheek, I'm sorry you took it so seriously.
But what, pray tell, is racist about stopping illegals from coming across our borders?
Lee,
I apologize, if it was tongue in cheek. There is nothing wrong with stopping illegals from coming here. It's not okay to stop or send back people who should be here back because of their race, as your proposed cottage industry would naturally do. Just the paying of armed bounty hunters roaming around with arrest authority rounding up Mexicans or any Latin American and sending them back when much of the Southwest’s indigenous population already fills that profile is racist. It was tried before back in the 1850's and was called the Fugitive Slave Act. Tens of thousands of former slaves, many of them freemen were round up and re-enslaved due to this law, regardless of the paperwork they showed proving otherwise. What's to stop now, as back then, anyone who looks Latin American, or as in Florida, Haitian, from being round up and deported. Lastly I don't like having decisions based upon race. That is Racist and exactly what will happen if that proposal was taken seriously. Thank God it was a Joke; my opinion of you was going down considering the prior post.
Steve, you didn't answer Lee's question and I'd like an answer also. "What is racist about stopping illegals from coming across our borders?" I'd like to add, what is racist about wanting to deport illegal aliens? The race of an alien is irrelevant. The pertinent point is being in this country illegally. It is not only WASP folks that want illegals deported, black Americans as well as the former fellow countrymen who have immigrated LEGALLY also want illegals deported. Is that to be considered racist also? Frankly, I’m a bit tired of the PC garbage associated with a peoples’ race or country of origin when evenhandedly enforcing our laws. While I’m at it, I also resent aliens capitalizing upon the goodness of this country via social welfare programs and giving birth solely to legitimize their presence in this country. If a person “who only wants to legitimately better their lifestyle” desires to immigrate to this country, let them apply for immigration like all the other LEGAL immigrants. I staunchly resist and denounce any amnesty program for those who have broken our laws the longest. If it costs billions to round up and deport the illegals, it will probably be a reduction in cost associated with providing welfare, Social Security and enduring the lost revenues associated with non tax paying. What about the term “illegal” do folks in this country not understand?
Angel,
I'm curious. If you think that giving over national soveriegnty to another country is suicide, what do you think of America's great ally Mr.Blair, who has been steadily handing over policy area after policy area to the EU in my country since he took office? This INCLUDES Immigration Policy, and is the main reason my ISLAND nation's borders leak like the world's biggest colander...
DSD,
Welcome to my blog, sir!
I won't speak for Angel, but I'd like to answer the question with my own $0.02 worth, if it's OK with you.
First of all, I like Blair. He has shown remarkable courage in the face of stiff opposition from a majority of Brits in this global war on terror.
However, the man is far from faultless. His willingness to acquiesce to the EU is a shameful trait, and I am saddened that he feels the way he does.
Anyway, I'll let Angel speak for herself, but that's my opinion. Thanks for contributing, sir!
I suppose I should have added Jon's standard disclaimer "for those of you on the left, that was sarcasm" but I figured the part about a series on A&E was a dead giveaway.
OS,
I believe I have answered the question posed to me
My First Posting: "I think we all can agree 1st we need to secure our border to make sure this doesn’t ever happen again. Then we enforce the laws and fine those business owners who knowingly higher illegal’s."
From my response to Lee: “There is nothing wrong with stopping illegals from coming here."
So there is my answer to "What is racist about stopping illegals from coming across our borders?" NOTHING IS RACIST ABOUT STOPPING IT AT THE BORDER. It's when it's not at the border. To answer your question OS," What is racist about wanting to deport illegal aliens?" Nothing if you are looking at their status as illegal only and not their race. However, empowering Bounty Hunters to round up people who they claim are Illegal is troublesome at best when human inherent greed will take over and people will be turning in others just for a buck. And History shows us, even with the best intentions it will become racial. Trust me a Bounty Hunter is more likely to go after a Hispanic who is here legally, than an Irish illegal. And not seeing that OS is just having blinders up.
My initial question was," What is the solution to this immigration problem if it's not Amnesty? It needs to be a solution that doesn't cost the American Taxpayer Billions, doesn't raise the price of Americas cheep food or causes inflation." Some responded with thoughtful well though out answers, like you OS and others apparently replied with poor sarcasm to a serious discussion.
My apologies to you once again LEE if I misunderstood you post and took it seriously when it was meant to be sarcasm. Unfortunately, there are people who believe in that as a solution. I believed you were espousing that belief.
BTW, I believe I'm far from being liberal. This issue seems to cross ideological lines. If you feel I'm Liberal due to this, then you may need to reconsider a lot of Americans calling themselves Conservative who believe as I do.
I didn't mean to imply you were a liberal when I said what I did about Jon's standard disclaimer.
You had posed a question and really had no response to the question so I thunk one up.
That's what happens when someone hibernates and stays off the lakes, rivers and highways on a holiday weekend, leaving them to the crazies out there. I'll be here over the 4th of July and Labor Day weekends too so be sure to tip your waitress and drive safely. Brrrubump!
All Cool
Alright, I'm gonna step into the crossfire here.
In the world of politics, its a bad idea to burn bridges (especially with next door neighbors). Give and take is the name of the game. Fox's killing the bogus drug legalization bill recently was a give... get it? Us putting that language into the bill is a give. Don't over-react to political language. Its just that - politics.
Remember everyone here was screaming that Bush was selling American security to Dubai - now we are giving up our sovereinty? I'm sorry, but I call that a bit over-dramatic.
Mexico is hostile to our national security interests. They just wear their hostility with a sombrero and a smile.
Fox is openly aiding and abetting the influx of illegal immigration into this country. And why shouldn't he? Hell, his country is (a) defraying a portion of their poverty by exporting it to us; and (b) getting about $20 billion in illegally earned wages in America sent back into Mexico!
So he has nada for an incentive to help us stop the flow, and any attempts we make to stop the invasion will naturally earn his contempt. That's more mouths for him to feed with less dinero for him to work with. How would the conversation go?
Uncle Sam: "Say, Vince? Mind if I erect this fence/wall on our soil?"
Vince: "Si, I would mind greatly! That's another $20 billion this oil- and tourist-rich country would have to come up with!"
Uncle Sam: "Well, OK. Just thought I'd ask!"
That American politicians are engaging in a little "Hispandering" at the expense of securing our borders is shameful.
now we are giving up our sovereinty?
That's not true. I wouldn't say we're giving it away now...we've been working on it for quite some time.
Mexico is hostile to our national security interests. They just wear their hostility with a sombrero and a smile.
Fox is openly aiding and abetting the influx of illegal immigration into this country. And why shouldn't he? Hell, his country is (a) defraying a portion of their poverty by exporting it to us; and (b) getting about $20 billion in illegally earned wages in America sent back into Mexico!
So he has nada for an incentive to help us stop the flow, and any attempts we make to stop the invasion will naturally earn his contempt. That's more mouths for him to feed with less dinero for him to work with. How would the conversation go?
Uncle Sam: "Say, Vince? Mind if I erect this fence/wall on our soil?"
Vince: "Si, I would mind greatly! That's another $20 billion this oil- and tourist-rich country would have to come up with!"
Uncle Sam: "Well, OK. Just thought I'd ask!"
That American politicians are engaging in a little "Hispandering" at the expense of securing our borders is shameful.
now we are giving up our sovereinty?
That's not true. I wouldn't say we're giving it away now...we've been working on it for quite some time.
I stopped being understanding of the plight of the Mexicans 2 years ago when I was visiting Cozumel and some locals hawking ceramic trinkets got their serapes all bunged up because we didn't buy their junk and they very loudly proclaimed their hatred for "American Gringos". The term "don't crap where you eat" suddenly came to mind and I decided then and there and that I would never again spend my hard earned Gringo dollars on anything from Mexico.
BTW: Jonathan, great letter to Martinez. Please be sure to let us know what response you get from him. My experience with him and Nelson has always been a canned reply that very generically addresses whatever concerns I have voiced. I'm with you -- I definitely have buyer's remorse where Martinez is concerned and will actively campaign against the guy unless he drastically changes his ways.
Hahaha, I like the spanglish post - see, you'll survive muy bueno in los estados unidos nuevos.
There are plenty of reasons for countries to cooperate with the US on things seemingly against their interests (we hold a lot of weight). See Saudi Arabia and Libya for recent examples.
For a little perspective on our interests: Mexico has sweeping elections coming up in July... including presidential. With a rising socialist anti-american trend overtaking Latin America, we don't need a hostile next door neighbor.
Once again, we are not giving up our sovereignty and the mexican dishwasher is not trying to reclaim california.
Old Soldier posted the following, "Seal the border, prosecute employers, deport when found, deny welfare entitlements, eh, I mean benefits, and deny automatic citizenship to illegals off spring born on our soil. There is plenty of incentive there for the vast majority to return to their homeland. Oh, yes, I'd also declare a moratorium on the “guest worker” program.
What about “all the jobs Americans won’t do?” Start decreasing welfare by the amount paid to those willing low wage earners and see if some of our Americans aren’t willing to work for a living vs. being subsidized by the government to not work. In fact it would be cheaper for the taxpayers if the government subsidized the low wage jobs vs. providing a livable welfare check."
Too bad that the same can't be said about our duly elected leaders. . .
Kira, I’d like for you to try an experiment. Pick a point anywhere along the US/Mexico border that is extremely remote and unguarded. Cross into Mexico with no passport; take only some poorly forged Mexican documents. Forget that you speak Spanish and speak only English. If you cannot find a job washing dishes, just apply for all the social welfare programs Mexico has to offer. Just to ensure that you are not deported, have a child while in Mexico and claim residence based upon your child’s automatic citizenship. Oh, yeah, sponsor a few in-your-face demonstrations flying the Mexican flag below the US flag, maybe even burn a couple Mexican flags, and suggest Mexico publish their national anthem in English. Be sure to demand all Mexican governmental forms be interpreted into English for you. Do that for a few years and let us know how it works out for you. I’d like to know how well Mexico reciprocates by allowing our people to illegally enter and take up residence in Mexico.
Old Soldier - very respectfully, no thanks! I immigrated to America in 1989, and am quite happy (and productive) here!
I understand your frustrations, but I also lived in California for 15 years, where I learned Spanish before I learned English in ESL class! Yes, Cali is packed with legal and illegal immigrants, but mostly with 2nd and 3rd generation "chicanos." These people are not anti-American and don't want to turn Cali into Mexicali. Most immigrants just come here to work! YES - we need to keep track of them for security reasons, and so need sound policy. But lets not forget the motivating factor here - economic opportunity (not a welfare check). From that understanding, lets work backwards to sound policy...
Keep in mind that theres people prostituting this very important issue on both sides of the aisle. On the left, you have socialist, anti-borders folks (crazies) and on the right you have the "Aztlan is coming, our social programs are being depleted, our President has o.d.'d on guacamole and signed over our sovereignty" folks (crazies). Both are extremes. Emotion is not a basis for sound public policy.
but thats neither here nor there -
The language about consulting with Mexico about the fence is purely political - a gesture to cooperation (no doubt written during Fox's recent visit). It is an issue being blown out of proportion by those crazies (this time on the right), some of which, by the way, have books to sell (see Michelle Malkin's "Invasion")
The sky hasn't fallen, and our sovereignty is intact.
Gracias
Kira, Mexico is not acting in a neighborly or friendly manner when it comes to herding their undesidered folks across the border northward. Publishing pamphlets explaning how to enter the US illegally coupled to their refusal to enforce a border control coupled to their threatening to sue us in interantional courts if we build fences and walls does not convince me of their goodwill. Fox and company only want what they can get out of America in the way of reduced dependent population and US dollars being sent home. Reciprocity is not part of Fox's diplomacy. Illegal is illegal; the legistative and administrative branches need to acquiesce to the judiciary and let them respond the the illegal immigrant issue.
Thanks for the welcome Jonathan
In reply to your praise of Blair, please understand that (leaving aside my initial point about sovereignty) this man's support for military action in Iraq does not equate to support for the WoT. The face he presents to America is not the one he presents to us domestically. Every new raft of so-called anti-terror legislation introduced falls into one of two categories.
1. Conveniently 'defeated' by judges the Blair government appointed in the first place.
2. About as much to do with stopping terrorism as Osama has to do with Orthodox Judaism. This type always includes many ways to curtail the basic rights and freedoms of the man in the street, but contains absolutely sod all of use to stop, you know, terrorists.
Dont take my word for it. Go Google Blair's DOMESTIC performance on these issues. You'll find a very different picture from the one he presents to you.
DSD,
I will accept your analysis of Blair, since I admittedly am not thoroughly familiar with his specific policies. All I know of him is what I've seen from him regarding the war on terrorism. By the way, many Americans (I don't know if it's a majority or not) see the war in Iraq as part and parcel of the war on terror. Other Americans do not.
Thanks again for your contribution, and please feel free to drop by often, and to comment freely (whether in agreement or disagreement). Civil and thoughtful disagreement is always welcome (and it makes things interesting), but loony or paranoid rantings usually get met by sarcastic and/or caustic reactions here!
Rounding up the illegals and giving the First class air tickets home will be expensive however it will be many times cheaper than what they will cost us down the road in SS, Medicare, ADC and a miriad of other handout programs. Not to mention English and Spanish as second language courses for the entire population.
I'm sorry Lee...been short on time lately and didn't catch the rest of the thread. If you should get this, Dodd's child is four years old (don't think he has any adult children). Hopefully, there's enough a generation gap between father and son that he won't want to go near Dad's profession.
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