THINK before you write!!
and can anyone give me one reason why we dont hear anything not one iota from our BIG gedolim , not even from the aguda condemning this violence?
shocking, shocking i am so depressed now, i need some music fast
Could we leave the Nazis out of this? Thanks.
Worthwhile reading. Unfortunately I can't get the sidebar on-line which lists the mechanisms for rationalizing immoral behavior. It includes 8 categories - one of which is "advantageous comparison" defined as comparing someone to Hitler to justify an attack; or excusing a reckless act by comparing it to worse transgression by a rival or predecessor"
Hamevin Yavin.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/
0...agewanted=print
When Death Is on the Docket, the Moral Compass Wavers
By BENEDICT CAREY
Burl Cain is a religious man who believes it is only for God to say when a person's number is up. But in his job as warden and chief executioner at the Louisiana State Penitentiary in Angola, Mr. Cain is the one who gives the order to start a lethal injection, and he has held condemned inmates' hands as they died.
He does it, he said in an interview, because capital punishment "is the law of the land."
"It's something we do whether we're for it or against it, and we try to make the process as humane as possible," he said, referring to himself and others on the execution team.
But he concedes, "The issue is coping, how we cope with it."
Common wisdom holds that people have a set standard of morality that never wavers. Yet studies of people who do unpalatable things, whether by choice, or for reasons of duty or economic necessity, find that people's moral codes are more flexible than generally understood. To buffer themselves from their own consciences, people often adjust their moral judgments in a process some psychologists call moral disengagement, or moral distancing.
KT
Where is this taking place, at Amona?
This is terrible.
I am really ready to puke after seeing this. YW is right. It does remind me of Nazis. A 15 year old girl getting clubbed even after she is allready unconcious on the floor!
Israel is NOT a democracy. It's a DICTATORSHIP.
BTW, the OU did speak out on it.
See here.
Lakewood guy:
Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Kudos for Mr. Shtender at www.hayom.blogspot.com for mentioning that!
YW Editor.
Disgusting!
I dropped my lit Marlboro Light when I saw that video clip!
Kudos for Mr. Shtender at www.hayom.blogspot.com for mentioning that!
I appreciate the plug YW Editor, but if you look closely you'll see that it was actually posted by LkwdGuy, not myself. 
Shtender: If YOU look closley you will see that I thanked Lakewood Guy first for bringing to my attention the fact that on your site you had mentioned it.
Then I thanked YOU for applauding the OU for their letter.
Take Care,
YW Editor.
It took these guys 57 years to realize what the state is really all about - a lot longer than it took the Neturai Karta.
Thank you Gabbai Tzedokah! To quote the first anonymous, the BIG Gedolim did speak out - just about unanimously before WWII and the Satmar Rebbe ZTZ"L - almost a lone voice - until he left us. And now - to use a colorful English expression - "the chickens are coming home to roost" and we need, more than ever, great rachamei shomoyim. BTW, such attacks as these took place many years ago in Yerushalayim when R. Amram Blau ZTZ"L made his famous demonstrations against chilul shabbos - in those days also nobody except Satmar raised a voice in protest.
Yeah just like the the SS who machinegunned tens of thousants of men women and children at Babi Yar or like the 4 day trips by train without water to Auschwitz and then to the gas chambers.
This is a propoganda film. The State of Israel has made a decision to evacuate Amona, these people could have left on their own and when they did not there was a need for force. They were playing the game of passive aggressive. Just stay there and let the border police do the dirty work. Nobody was killed, nobody was even seriously injured ! Yeah just like the nazis.
To Mr. Lowinger: Nobody was seriously injured? Please see the February 1 posting and picture at mysticalpaths.blogspot.com. The following is a quote "The most seriously injured at Amona was Yechi'am ben Rachel, who is fighting for his life with a serious brain injury and damaged skull, from the hand of the Israeli government. Please pray for his complete and speedy recovery."
Absolutly disgusting footage!
Shtender: If YOU look closley you will see that I thanked Lakewood Guy first for bringing to my attention the fact that on your site you had mentioned it.
Then I thanked YOU for applauding the OU for their letter.
If you look EVEN CLOSER you will see that LkwdGuy is the one who posted it ON MY SITE as well, which is what I meant originally.
Yated was the ONLY paper that had like 4 full pages on this.
Thank you to the Yated.
I have just been sent via email the sickest thing that I have seen since the Nazi's Y"S.
Apparently you haven't been paying attention for the last 60 years.
I am really ready to puke after seeing this. YW is right. It does remind me of Nazis. A 15 year old girl getting clubbed even after she is allready unconcious on the floor!
Just like the Nazis! No one else has ever done that.
In some European countries these comments could lead to prosecution as a form of Holocaust denial.
Seriously people, a less hysterical comparison would be to cops in the south during the civil rights movement. I'd disagree with that also, but it's not nearly as insulting as the Nazis.
And for the guy who thinks Israel is not a democracy? Do some research on the term please.
Nah. I think they acted like nazis.
But it's nothing new! I myself was clubbed on Bar-Ilan on Shabbos about 10 years ago.
rotzchim!
I think this film is just a bunch of rabble-rousing. In general I support the disengagement and think the settlers are very harmful to themselves and others.
I once saw in Sefer Chassidim that a Yid who antagonizes goyim and then gets harmed, or gets his family harmed by the goyim is guilty in his and their suffering. And this is exactly what these settlers did - they went there out of a desire to assert Jewish control over "Arab" areas, and they provoked the inevitable reaction. These people have blood on their hands, the blood of their children and themselves, all the people who were killed by Arabs for living in these places. And, to a lesser extent, the blood of other people who were killed by Arabs in other areas, since to some extent the Arabs were even more "raitzed uhn" then they would have been had these people not been there.
I am pretty sure R' Shach ZTL expressed similar sentiments, IIRC, he felt the settlements were hisgorus b'umois.
(AND FWIW, by and large these chevra did not seem inclined to try to minimize their quarrels with the Arabs, but rather went out of their way to provoke them, since it fit with their agenda of asserting their ownership of the land.)
I am NOT saying that I don't feel any symphathy for the people being dragged out of their homes - it's heartrendering. But in the final analysis, it's something worth doing, and if it's sad that you have these individual tragedies along the way, it's important to remember that it's tragedies of their own doing.
Now FTR, there is no doubt that in some individual instances this or that soldier or policeman will turn out to have use excessive violence when less ould have sufficed. But this is just an inevitable and relatively minor byproduct of instituting a policy that requires the use fo some coercion. That's the breaks, unfortunately. But these occurances do not invalidate the larger policy. (In addition, I should also caution that some degree of skepticism is needed here, since 1) we are not experts in these types of things and don't know what is necessary or not, and 2) these videos appear to be put out by some advocacy group, which has a heavy interest in selective showing, possibly including editing. So we are undoubtedly not getting the full picture.) I point this out because there seems to be a lot of confusion between the actions of this or that individual soldier and the actions of the leadership.
It's unfortunate that this type of thing is turning so many yeshivaleit into Zionists.
IchLoch,
How sad that you have no concern for 'amcha'.You don't have to agree with them but where is your yiddishe hartz?
daat y, do you know how to read? Try this again, slowly this time: "I am NOT saying that I don't feel any symphathy for the people being dragged out of their homes - it's heartrendering. But in the final analysis, it's something worth doing, and if it's sad that you have these individual tragedies along the way, it's important to remember that it's tragedies of their own doing."
Nazi? You should be ashamed comaparing ANYTHING to the word Nazi. Do you not know your heritage? The settlers got beat by police, sometimes maybe it was out of line but also because they would not leave. The soldiers had no guns, only clubs, you dont leave, you will be taken out with force.
Shame on anyone who thinks of anything, let alone Israeli soldiers, as Nazis.
Let me speak on behalf of YW Editor.
The Israeli police ARE nazis. It is a known fact that they are ruthless sick individuals who have an extra hatred towards frum people.
NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS
but mk, i thought you were yw.
IchLoch, You are right that these setelers are terrible for being there in the first place and not leaving when told. But does this video really look to you like "just a little extra violence" that's par for the course?
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