Please don't feed the trolls!
The problem isn't drag queens, the problem is PEOPLE behaving badly.
God I wish people could learn to separate issues.
Drag isn't the problem it's misbehavior. Trying to rid the drag queens is like trying to rid the terrorists. Who's to say last week's drag isn't today's suit or vice versa?
"Hassled costumers [sic] for drinks." Well, I am no drag queen, but I'd hassle costumers for gowns and boas if I were.
I tend to agree with the Crews Inn management. Atlanta, before I left was completely over run by drag queens. The country western bar, my neighborhood watering hole, and the most popular bar all had continuous drag...You couldn't go out for a drink without being subjected to the most abject horror of drag on any given night. I finally gave up and stopped going out altogether.
Well, I suppose it's their right as owners; they can exclude whomever they want.
Other bars do it through dress codes and such.
Atlanta bars--overrun by drag queens? Bored looking guys who thought they were everything and a bag of chips, yes, but drag queens, not so much.
"...they can't do no wrong." Oh jeebus, I gotta love living in Dallas, TX. Actually, I live near this bar and, frankly, it's a dive. Last time I was there one of the costumers had his hand in the jock of one of the dancers, giving him a handskie. Instead of banning people, why not enforce more control of basic conduct and behaviour at the joint?
I agree with CB and Tex and might add that as long as someone can open a "Women Only" gym (or anything else for that matte) and get away with it, I support the right of the owner of a gay bar allowing whomever he/she choses in or not. How is this different from the infamous Studio 54 entry policy??
What about "code nights" at certain Leather Bars? They bar people from entrance and yet many a reader would agree thats find and dandy...
I personally do not.
I'm of two minds here ("only two?" "shut up, shut up!")
1. There is real prejudice in our community towards the drag tribe. And these marginalized people, who face threats every day, are the people who threw the first bricks and punches at Stonewall. Sylvia Rivera would be howling about this right now. And I'd agree with her.
2. Drag queen misbehavior -- defined by stealing, intimidating others for drinks and money -- is something I have seen close up. By the aforementioned Sylvia Rivera among others. And I would never want this level of acting out in my place of business.
Drag entertainers, who I think of as
Gender Clowns, can be brilliant. But I don't always want that entertainment at a bar I go to. Just as I don't always want men in chaps serving me drinks. Or go go dancers who do straight porn.
Mark Segal, publisher of PGN, once led a demonstration outside the Eagle because they wouldn't let in people who were wearing sneakers. SNEAKERS! I argued with him over this. I mean, there are more important things to protest, and the point of a leather bar is leather, not Converse high tops.
Still, so often prejudice against drag queens is an expression of internalized homophobia and sexism.
Complicated issue. Except that theft and intimidation trump prejudice.
Of course, one doesn't ban a group of people. An owner 86's individuals who behave badly. Anything else is discrimination.
They are flaunting their sexuality like a weapon.
An issue like this always catches my attention. On one hand, patrons of a bar should be able to feel at home and natural...but, on the other hand, it shouldn't come at the expense of others. Where is the line? I don't know, but I guess that bar owners should draw it.
whether it's right or wrong, i can't say but i've been the victim of "in your face" drag queens enough to not mind the ban.
Hire some security guards. Eject a few misbehaving patrons and behavior will improve.
If they give the security guards problems, then have the security guards call the police.
It is what every other bar does, eh?
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I am OK with this, as long as: a) the drag queens really were responsible for most of the misbehavior, and b) the bar owner first tried to post and enforce rules of behavior. But if it is just discrimination against drag queens, that's not OK (though personally I would stay the hell away from any place with drag queens, but whatever melts your buttah...)
My exposure to drag queens is admittedly limited.
But it seems unfair to exclude them just for being drag queens. If your bouncers identified a problem few, it would be fine to ban them. But as a whole group? Not fair. Moore revealed his bias in his general statement.
I think they should install a velvet rope and not only refuse entrance to the drag queens that cause trouble, but ridicule their fashion sense as well.
DRAG QUEENS ARE OUT OF CONTROL!!!
EVERYWHERE!!!
give me the bored queens with or without a bag of chip over overwrought drag queens any day.
He has a dress-code restriction on only Tuesday nights --- doesn't seem overly tragic....there is the rest of the week to wear your cum-fuck-me pumps and prance the night away ... horns and thorns and queers and steers --- ladies and gents welcome to beautiful Texas........
"...locals have even given the event a nickname — “Trashy Tuesday.” But Crews Inn co-owner David Moore says he plans to remove the “T” — for transgender, that is — from the clientele at his Fitzhugh Avenue bar on Tuesday nights."
Thank God they're only eliminating the T from the clientele. I can't imagine people would want to go to "Rashy Uesday".
But seriously, banning an entire group of people for the actions of some is ridiculous. Hire some extra bouncers, enforce a strict "No being a dickhead, in or out of drag" policy, and 86 those who violate it.
We all have interests. Some people like muscle guys, some people like young guys, some people like daddies, some people like leather, some people like cowboys, and some people like drag queens.
Generally, depending on the city, there are enough different bars to satisfy tastes.
Mixing them all together may work in small towns, but Dallas (never been) would seem to be a big enough city to have a drag queen bar, a cowboy bar, a twinkie bar, etc.
Hrm. Wonder who's gonna win this one: the misguided bar owner or a band of angry drag queens?
I know why they are banning the drag queens. The customers are complaining. The reason to go to Crews Inn is for cruising. Kind of like going to the bath house but you can have drinks. It's pissing off the customers to have drag queens interfering with the pursuit of man meat. If they wanted a drag show they would go to a bar with a drag venue.
They are simply trying to give the customers what they want so that they can stay in business.
If the drag queens are cockblocking they gotta go.
Thank you David, I could not remember the term to use.
Good.
uh,oh. I see trouble ahead for this particular bar owner. Isn't there a saying that "hell hath no fury like a drag queen scorned"?
Wouldn't try that trick in SF. The Sisters got some strong mojo.
Attack of the 50 Foot Drag Queen.
Aaron (touche by the way).
I've never been to Texas, but isn't Dallas a somewhat largish city? If it is a tiny cowtown with one gay bar, I can see that fights among groups might happen (like amongst different animals at a shared water hole). But if it is a city, why don't the guys who hate the queens go to some other bar -- is there no leather bar in Dallas?!? Has Bush destroyed civilized gay life in Texas?
I don't see the problem either. Let the guy run his business as he wants. What happened to voting and/or protesting with our dollars? If they don't like his policies, then they (the drag queens) can always take their disposable income elsewhere.
I'm another one who believes, within reason, that the owner/management of any establishment should be able to choose about these things.
"I've never been to Texas, but isn't Dallas a somewhat largish city?"
Fourth largest metropolitan area in the US, with a population slightly larger than that of the Berlin-Brandenburg metro area. In other words, yes - large enough to provide lots of options for its GLBT residents.
I expect either other patrons will support the owner and keep going, or they won't and he'll be in trouble.
Though I agree with the commenter - make a big show of ejecting some misbehaving patrons in a dramatic way, and things would tend to calm down.
In a Bush economy, many bar owners have gotten rid of doormen and security, expecting bartenders and barbacks to police the bar. Should this bar owner be expected to pay for more security to be rid of some rowdies or can he just ban a group of people who can't police their own.
As a longtime Dallas-ite. I thought I'd chime in. First, Dallas offers a healthy range of bars for whatever strikes a boy's (or girl's) fancy. Most of these establishments – a megaclub with a mixed crowd featuring a separate drag revue, a country bar, a huge lesbian club and a few stand-and-model bars – are centrally located around Cedar Springs, "the gayest street in Dallas."
All of the others – including the Eagle (you know the drill), Crews Inn and (my personal fave) Zippers – attract a more niche audience and are located off the strip. The clientele that frequent these bars go for the people, the vibe and the familiarity.
It wasn't until recently that the drag queens started showing up at bars like Zippers and Crews Inn en masse. The problem? They've destroyed the vibe that made these places such a nice alternative to the "scene" on Cedar Springs.
How? By demanding to be next in line in the bathroom, because "...ladies first!" and using the same excuse to force their way up to the bartender. These examples are just a few.
I'm a Southern gentleman, and would never think twice about letting a woman take my place in line. But rude drag queens will have to wait their turns, just like the rest of the dudes in line.
Lol, dlo. (That last line of yours was pretty damn funny).
A friend of mine told me that when Hillside Campground in PA opened up, they had drag shows, drag competitions and many campers were transvestite/transexual. The campground banned them because there were too many fights going on. I'm sure having rules as to whom could enter the campground is one reason it has become so popular.
A gay club called Kurts, in Philadelphia during the late 80's/early 90's, had a sign at the entrance, "no sneakers, no boots, and no jeans with rips." Of course, this rule was only applied to those whom were female or non-white. I believe this helped keep the club popular for years.
If we are going to have only female or only black clubs, why is the reverse so horrible?
Personally, I prefer a club with a diverse sort of clientele. And, I love a good leather bar, too.
As growing up in Dallas and the bars there....
Dallascracker has it nailed on the head.
That's not the what the clientale is looking for...
Drag and their transgendered-ness has absolutely nothing to do with it. That's placing a blanket statement over every drag queen or trans woman.....and it's uncalled for.
The behaviour of a few should not punish the many, they should be concentrating on weeding out the few who are causing problems....or is that too much effort?
Disgusting
“Drag queens act like they are divas and think they can’t do no wrong,” Moore said. ... “They have stolen money straight off the bar ... I don’t want drag queens in here that are going to misbehave.”
oh, that bigoted motherfucker! One more reason I don't wanna go through Texas, (Louise)!
Thank goodness there are no bigoted people in New York City!
A few cock-blocking, money stealing Drag Queens, SHIT! I would be more worried about the new smoking ban the City of Dallas is working on. Nothing kills a business like few Drag Queens & non-smokers.
last year, i saw what i thought was a group of republican middle-aged women at a bar. that group turned out to be drag queens. i'm still having nightmares!!!
You don't have to go to Texas to find bigots, Scottevill! The Straight Pride march will be coming right to you in NYC.
Here in NOLA we fly our Freak Flag high. That's why I love it here so...
Hmmm....that's because you're in New Orleans, John. Notoriously oddball from ALL the way back (in the best way).
Chuck in PA: Regarding drag at Hillside Campground, I think your friend only has part of the story. My partner and I went there pretty religiously when it first opened. Most of the drag performers in the very beginning were amateurs, that is guys who just liked to "put on a show" once in a while for fun and who did not live a drag lifestyle even part of the time (one of the best, "Edna" was a pretty straight-laced government worker by day). Most of them only wore drag on stage. There were one or two more "serious" drags who, I think, really enjoyed the freedom of being able to dress up all weekend and put on shows. I can remember one queen who worked for the telephone company. The freedom of Hillside allowed him to eventually go to hairstyling school, move more fully into drag, and become a regular performer at a now closed bar in Bridgeport, PA.
The problems, as I recall, came with certain groups of drag queens who were, quite simply, trouble makers. I remember one crew from Reading, PA (of all places). They were drunk most of the weekend, loud and disruptive, and they put on a lousy, disorganized show. I think they ended up being asked not to come back.
We were there for at least one drag competition that attracted a wide range of performers. Some were charming and fun, some were nasty and hostile. Takes all kinds.
The problem is not drag queens as a group but rather the bad behavior of certain individuals or groups. And when they try to get defensive by saying "you are just picking on us because we are drag queens" that's a nice dodge for avoiding personal responsibility.
I can see the bar's point of view. I've been out places and have had drag queens think their outfits are license to be obnoxious. Ask them to leave you alone and it's all a joke and makes them even more over the top and in your face. I support the bar. They may have their protest outside but I'd be more interested on how many customers they'd have inside. It'll be interesting.
My $.02
Living around the corner from this bar as I do, I have one question:
Will the owner also be so kind as to ban the crackheads and the meth addicts that frequent his bar? It would make crusing there so much more pleasurable.
I don't want anyone in a gay bar that misbehaves. If you can't play nice throw their ass out.
Bars in Atlanta have dress-code nights, men-only blackout-party or underwear-party nights, etc, etc. I don't see any problem with this.
Sometimes boys want to be boys and look at the boys and nothin' but the boys. Nothing crushes my vibe more than going to a bar on any sort of sleaze night, doing a little touchy-feely with a hot guy, and hearing "GURRRRRLLLL!"
There's a time and a place for everything, and a certain amount of privacy to public sex.
I guess you have to see this area of Dallas. It's off the normal beaten path of gay bars right in the middle of a very upscale area. Crew's Inn, Zippers, Pegasus and The Hideaway. The Hideaway is a quaint cabaret bar with an older clientle. It has a huge outdoor patio and a back bar. LOVE it there.
The other three? Trashy dick dancer bars. They can be fun on the right night with the right group of people. For some reason, Tuesday has been THE night to go to those bars. Never have been able to figure that one out, other then cheap drinks.
With the more seedy bars, brings a different patron. It's just something you have to deal with there. I agree that there have been problems in this area, even as far as to have shootings and muggings. I don't necessarily agree that it's drag queens doing this, but chalk it up to "people behaving badly" in general. Dollar wells is going to cause people to drink too much and become obnoxious. Plus it's one of the biggest places to get drugs in Dallas, not to mention the easiest place to do them in.
And for those who just want to bash Dallas or Texas in general. Those in glass houses people.......
Take a look around where you currently live.
Typical Dallas Drama.
If I want to hang out with drag queens, I can go to the drag show at the mega bar S4. If I want to appreciate almost nekkid men (and cheap drinks) I go to the Crews Inn on Tuesday. If you read the whole story, the owner's point about kicking out the specific trouble makers is that they can just come back the next week in different drag. Also, he is backed up by the TABC in that a patron must be of age and match their photo ID. Unless Ivanna Tramp got her liscense while in drag, I don't think she'll pass.
I don't get why these people need to dress up like clowns to go to the bar. I am not talking about Trans gender people but drag queens
Brain it was drag queens the fought the fight that gave us the ablity to be who we are. Many of them were running around fighting when you were still learning to crawl. Many of them probably stood up and fought when you would have stayed hidden.
Aric,
So it is OK for drag queens to go to the bars and act like jerks because they where alive before me and helped to bring gay rights?
I can't wait to see this hot mess.
The drag queens that frequent Zippers and Crews Inn are fucking rude as hell and are always pushing and cramming to get in front of everyone.
Just cause you put on some make up and a dress doesn't entitle you to cut in front of us bitch.
And the cheap perfume is also a bit much.
As far as LEGALLY, their ID picture does not match their appearance, therefore the bar has a legal right to not allow them in.
Echoing Gary R's comment, drag can be used as a disguise, allowing a guy to behave in ways he wouldn't if he were recognizably himself. Like anonymous posts on a website... you can say things you would be ashamed to have traced back to you. Dress up, throw on some make-up and a wig, and you can be someone else. Does anyone ever become someone "nicer" than their real persona? No, the anonymity of the disguise lets you "get away" with bad behavior. I have too many friends in the drag community to fully support the ban, but I can't honestly say it doesn't make sense.
it's Eric not Aric, thank you. and i didn't say people have the freedom to act like jerks, but you calling them clowns is a bit disprectful of the history of the gay movement and of the work of such groups like the Imperial Court System, the International Order of Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the Cycle Sluts, the Angels of Light, the Cockettes, and other various groups. Saly we as people don't do enough to pass on our history or respect ourselves to allow people to be who or what they are without passing judgment. Isn't it ironic that we demand respect from the straight world but can't give it to each other?
Is drag a disguise? Yes. It allows me to do my charity work without letting my own personal ego get in the way.
Do I act differently in drag than as a boy? Yes, I'm a bit more outgoing and more like I am in with my friends in private than the wall flower I am in a public situaiton.
Do some people act nicer in drag? Yes, I have to abide by a certain code of conduct because my beheaviour reflects on the entire order and not just myself.
I think this has more to do with issues of masculinty that are rampent in our community than it has to do with the stealing or whatever else. Do the clothes make the man masculine or does the attitude and actions of the person? The Sisters started out as a protest against the Castro Clone and to this day we contiune to challange the limits of the masculine/feminine war. Do I agree that drag can kill the sexual engery? Of course, I once cleared a bathroom at a bar that doubled as a drakroom when I screamed at my Sister to hold my skirt up while I peed. Didn't mean to but it was funny as hell looking at the the guys scatter like cochroaches in the light. But I have also gone into backrooms to hand out condoms with no issue.
Sorry Erik I was being a jerk because it is Brian and not Brain.
wow... even on the internet we can't treat each other civil!
We live a block from this dive. It's a nasty representation of our "community." Nonetheless, we frequent there upon a night of too many martini's, too drunk to drive elsewhere, so we walk. Upon entering, there are near naked dancers, trolls, druggies, and trannies. It's part of the ambiance. How dare they discriminate against our fellow (or is it sister?) drag queens! We shall go to Zippers, next door, from now on!
Ha! That's the first gay bar I ever went to (1976?).
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