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Thanks for the good post. Much appreciated.
iMonk |
18.01.05 - 6:27 pm | #
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A comforting post, particularly as my two eldest children are now entering upon their teenage years.
Methinks I also detect herein a sound rationale for paedocommunion. Surely our baptized children are as welcome as we adult believers to participate in the liturgy and to eat Jesus' food.
Joel |
18.01.05 - 7:43 pm | #
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It's probably impossible to say too much against youth programs. They're just so stupid; and the last thing teenagers, relishing their newfound capacity for critical thought and distinction-making, need, is for church to be the place where you're socially coerced into doing stupid stuff and holding your tongue about the fact that it's stupid. At fourteen, I huffed out of RC confirmation class after the first hour rather than endure further insults to my intelligence; I can only imagine how I would have felt about the drearily "fun" activities of a typical evangelical "youth ministry." The most virulent anti-Christians in my acquaintance come from homes where participation in such was de rigeur - and I'm 30, so it's no longer a matter of rebellious phases. Negative reinforcement sticks.
FDN |
18.01.05 - 9:45 pm | #
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All too true. And, if I may throw another wrench into the whole 'youth movement/Sunday school' boondoggle, it also strips parents of their highest calling - teaching the faith to their children. It doesn't matter if the kids can understand everything at the Divine Service - that's what the parents are for, to explain, expand, and carry it through the week. For example, the Small Catechism, as a teaching document and not a devotion, is for the head of the household (I do NOT even want to go there...), not primarily for pastors.
Thomas |
Homepage |
19.01.05 - 2:43 am | #
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Oh, one more thing. I know many people who loved the youth programs at their churches; those are some of their most cherished memories; they keep in touch with one another, and fondly regail any and all with stories of lock-ins, camping trips, and the like; and, none of them go to church. In fact, once they graduated high school, and no longer had the youth group activities to look forward to, they just dropped out without a sound. It's worth a thought or two.
Thomas |
Homepage |
19.01.05 - 2:46 am | #
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Two things iMonk didn't deal with:
1) As I observe it, a lot of apostasy is the result of class upward mobility. Intellectually oriented kids from non-intellectual families: they grow into the future urban writer (or journalist, or scientist, or . . .) from the small town fundamentalist family that is such a fixture of our scene. Against this I really can't see much remedy in an open society except being involved in a church that has that artistic/intellectual/historical dimension and presenting it to your children. Parents want their children to do and be better educated than they are, but you've got to be aware that if your children are going to better educated and more culturally attuned than you are, that they are going to have to have a better educated and more culturally attuned faith than you have.
2) Another aspect particularly about boys is the over-feminization of the church. That over-feminization is seen both in just numbers and also in the denigration of the intellectual and of the "defense of the faith" aspects. You can go too far in this, and it's no panacea, but I think teenagers (girls too, but especially boys) respond better to a Christian culture heavy on self-discipline, intellectual defense of the faith, and standing against this decadent age (the soldier of Christ model), than to one solely devoted to tearful surrender, heart to heart fellowship, and moaning prayer circles (the bride of Christ model).
Chris Atwood |
19.01.05 - 2:18 pm | #
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As John points out "bride of Christ" is of course the wrong phrase here--it should be "girlfriend of Christ."
Chris Atwood |
20.01.05 - 2:26 am | #
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Here's an interesting article I read some time ago. It deals with the issue of parents, children, and passing on the faith, originally published in Touchstone Magazine. . .
http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/
...nandchurch.html
Mary
Mary |
20.01.05 - 3:23 am | #
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People on this thread may be interested in my post at Here We Stand on Luther, Theologian of Filiality
Chris Atwood |
20.01.05 - 8:43 pm | #
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