The Theological Ruminator
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It bugs me too that so many churches have the mindset that their leaders should not be allowed to struggle. They forget that struggle is a sign of growth, and think only "what will the neighbors think!" So the church leaders, who should lead the church in growth, feel stifled and restricted from growth except in certain accepted methods.
Anna |
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03.11.06 - 5:37 pm | #
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I had more to say on this last week but haloscan ate it. One thing that nags--why do you think Orthodoxy or the Emergent church deals with this better?
Roy |
03.21.06 - 12:40 am | #
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Sorry about that, Roy. I keep wishing I had a better commenting system, but haven't found a good free one yet (yes I still am extraordinarily cheap).
Anyways, the reason I think the Orthodox church deals with this better is because of the conversations I've had with family - all of whom have converted to Orthodoxy. Also, there is some other periphereal exposure I have to the Orthodox church.
The reason I think the emergent church deals with this issue better is because their literature argues this point constantly. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but I can't think of a single emergent book I've read that didn't speak to the need for more grace and room for hurting people to heal. For instance, McLaren talks about this all the time. Gibbs and Bolger have a new book out called Emerging Churches that is actually one of the few pieces of actual research on the emerging church. This is a theme they point out that the emergent church stresses.
John Mark |
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03.21.06 - 10:16 am | #
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I know of situations like what you painted and I know of others that are like what you want, so the bad ones get the press and the good ones go on quietly and I only know the good because I'm friends with the people involved. And all in the evangelical movement to boot. If it's done right wouldn't you expect that you'd never hear of it? Besides, if the surveys are right, an awful lot of pastors are looking at porn and not getting fired for it. And I'm far from convinced that the grass is greener someplace else.
Anyway, you yourself said that there were other issues relevant to the firing in your example. If a guy has a multitude of problems is it not legitmate for there to be that final straw? Why is it a black mark against a church for saying, "enough is enough?" If you're going to draw the line, where do you draw it?
Further, don't underestimate how generous a six month's severence is (he got a sabbatical and a six month severance? I think you're being awful hard on the church involved. Remember, people are donating money to keep this guy afloat while he finds a new job). Try alienating your co-workers and then go look at porn in the workplace and see how much severence you get. It sounds to me that it's more like they wanted a new pastor and he didn't want to go. Then he gave them a reason. My qualifier here is that I know nothing about the situation other than what you've written. I'm just thinking there's a lot more to this . . .
Roy |
03.21.06 - 1:03 pm | #
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Obviously, there's some grey areas in situations like these. Also, we're operating on limited information. So I'm fine in saying that I could be wrong on THIS issue. Maybe this guy did deserve the boot (however, I know details I haven't posted that I think argue otherwise). It's the big picture that bothers me most. Even though you are right that it's the bad stuff that gets the press, I think this general area is one the circle of churches I am familiar with are not good at.
I admit. I have no study to back me up. Only my gut feeling here. Maybe the thing that bothers me most is the guy wasn't hiding. He was gutsy enough to admit his hidden faults so that he could deal with him. He opened up to those around him and instead of coming alongside him they leveled him.
My gut is that this sort of thing is too frequent in evangelical churches. Sure lots of pastors struggle with . How many are gutsy enough to admit and deal with it?
Maybe my question is this: Where's the room to grow for those who genuinely are?
John Mark |
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03.21.06 - 7:58 pm | #
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Well, the one taboo is still sexual sin in all its forms. This is also problematic to me, as I sit here a good gluttoness 30 lbs. overweight and nobody thinks of firing me over that.
However,I think we're doing better, if for no other reason than the situations that I know about. They are across the spectrum of evangelcalism, including quite conservative. This is a pretty drastic change from less than 10 years ago, where the situations I knew about all resulted in instant firings (though I have to admit I'm a little better connected now--for all I know, there was a lot of silent dealings going on even then). So MY gut feeling is that we're making progress, even if the headlines indicate it's rather slow.
Anyway, I'm still loathe to be too critical of people that are donating money for a man's salary so he can look for a job after he got caught in a fireable offense. I'm telling you, this kind of thing is pretty rare in the real world. You and they may disagree on whether this constitutes a firing offense or not (though, again, try this in the real world and see what happens), but they made a significant effort and sacrifice to make it as painless for the man as they could.
My point here isn't that the elders of this church or the pastor were more at fault(I have no way of knowing and you've only got one side of the story, I think), my point is that they were trying to do the right thing . I find this much more prevalent than you seem to, at least going by your tone. I want to give the church as much a benefit of the doubt (and room to grow) as you want to give the man.
I will say that I'd likely view this different if he'd shown up one day and was given two weeks to clear out.
Roy |
03.22.06 - 2:04 pm | #
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Of course it does take a job to get fired.... 
Also, maybe we are doing better. I hope so.
Also, this guy wasn't "caught." He confessed. I think thats a BIG difference.
Also, kudos to them for the 6 mos. severance after firing. No kudos for the firing.
And sure, benefit of the doubt... I'm sure I don't know it all... I'm sure they did their best with their training and all.
I just don't think they/evangelical-bible churches do enough. My critique isn't that weren't trying to do the right thing - I'm sure they were. It's that we're not willing to go far enough.
I could be wrong. I admit that. However, I still think the Orthodox and Emergent church are better overall in the area of promoting healing. Just my opinion...
John Mark |
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03.22.06 - 8:45 pm | #
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