> mostly North Indian types
Hmm.. I'm not sure if you meant it to sound that way, but it *looks like* you're stereotyping the North Indians into the behaviour you saw..
But to the core issue of your piece..
> While I respect the right of women > to own their own bodies, the public > spaces in the city belong both to
> those who want to wear skimpy
> clothes and the more conservative
> folks.
I've tried explaining this to so many people.. *sigh*
"Core Issue" !!.. :-D :-D :-D
Looks like youve been spending too much time with neighbours :-P
on a serious note, I also wanted to point out the impracticability of a transplant of social sciences research performed in a Western milieu to India.
Oh yeah.. I'm writing a report on the *so-called* core issue and some such things 
hmm.. all the best !! 
Agree with you on most points .. Calling them the 'taliban' would be going too far ... and I think the points they make are more or less legitimate ...
I thought indians were better behaved in foreign countries than their own? Guess I'm wrong there ... Must be the group thing again
>> I thought indians were better behaved in foreign countries than their own?
I think so too.. given half a chance at living a dignified life, Indians grab it with gusto.
But these kids are young, and still learning the limits of acceptable/unacceptable behaviour, I guess. But sometimes, there is this "Ugly Indian" whose ignorance is exceeded only by his arrogance, who doesnt know the first thing about how to behave in a culture different from his/her own.
btw.. I dont agree with everything the Shiv Sena says, just that this once they are articulating the concerns of a lot of people, branding them Taleban/Fascists is just not done.
Oh! But you are getting better and better, sudeep Here's an open invitation to guest blog on my blog. Whenever you feel like it. Send me an email (it's on the right side bar of my blog).
thanks sandeep, will do so soon
Sudeep Man...
Visiting your blog after a long time.
One point I would like to mention is that rape is *NOT* about satisfying sexual lust. It is about display of power. So not sure if a change of clothing will change anything.
Cheers,
D
excellantly written Sudeep and points made very well. am a liberal myself. but agree with you about maintaining the fine balance subject to space and the geographical space and most of what you wrote. btw, quite late in the day, but Congratulations on Graduating
Cheers~
Thanks pomps.. Dhar..
>> One point I would like to mention is that rape is *NOT* about satisfying sexual lust. It is about display of power.
How do you *know* that ? I am just very sceptical about absolute statements like this.
Uspeed,
I am almost obliged to comment on this post but without going over the things we already have.
Since you are skeptical about psychology of rape, let me point to the first item on google search Criminal Psychology:
"The myths that continue to persist about can often screen the truth. Most rapists show no sign of psychopathology; most rapes occur indoor and most victims know their attackers; most rapes are planned and are about humiliation, domination and degradation; and violence is an effective tool against an individual. (Donnelly, L (1991) Ending the torment, Nursing Times, 87, 36-3."
Again, I am not saying *ALL* rapes. In fact, claiming that there is no sexual element in rape is incorrect. The point is that the sexual element hasn't been shown to have an overpowering influence on rapist behavior as compared to other things such as domination, humiliation or degradation.
------
Note: I don't claim to be well read on criminal psychology and I may be wrong.
-----
You conclude your article saying:
"instead of assuming a position of moral superiority and talking down to us, the ignorant, the taleban and so brown !"
First off: so brown! I am as brown as the other guy. And who is taking a position of moral superiority? One who asks rape to be condemned without caveats or the one who pontificates about the sanctity of culture being destroyed and that being a cause of rape?
A final point of view:
Condemning Saamnaa article is not tantamount to supporting the so-called page-3 culture.
Rape is happening in india because
1) Most of the indian men are virigins long time after they are sexually mature
2) Lack of avenues for men of freely meeting women in the society and exchanging views.
3) Lack of understanding a woman and her sense of expression. this stems from reason 2
4) Lack of sexual exposure in males and females.
updates. updates. we want updates
We Want Updates 
Where are you?
tht was some thotprovoking writing..am gonna send this link to many of my blogfrends.
n this one is some real strong point ..." rape is *NOT* about satisfying sexual lust. It is about display of power."
Sudeep, hello.
Many thanks for your kind words in the comment you posted at my blog. Look forward to seeing more of you there (and here: it appears you have been off this blog for a long time!)
Best,
Nikhil
Hi ,
I agree with what you are saying here. I read the original article and agree with a lot that is being said. I think that youth in India is confused - to be hip, they have to behave as the films depict yet to be socially acceptable they have to do what their parents did. So instead of taking a long hard look at what they really want from life, they areplaying at being "liberated".
We can argue endlessly about promiscuity & prudence;the responsibilty of the victims & the psychology of the perpetrators of the crime in repressed societies.While i agree completely that yes,being provokingly dressed(what is provoking?are we goign to dress to be safe as per the reference scale of guy from Allahabad (or where ever?)is inviting trouble,Rape is the result of a sick, diseased mind-how else would one explain the molestation of 3year old girls?
To give another illustration(as opposed to yr money thing), although one would rationally assume it, there is no evidence that capital punishment is acting as a deterrant to murder,anywhere in the world.I mean,Cause and Effect is very hard to establish in many situations.
And to be honest, how many women in india (I'm not talkign about the Bombay Elite circling thru endless parties all night-after all they are but a tiny minority in our -optimistically speaking -very middle class economy)-i'm talking more about the teeming thousands who crowd the railway platforms hopping in & out of the crowded second class compartments of local trains to get to work on time...yes, how many of them dress like Ms.Haque?
anyway, I stumbled in to t his by accident, nvr been to yr blog before, loved what you wrote about arundhati roy else where, (sorry,i've deviated & digressed so much from my intended goal,that i've forgotten the trail that led me here , but that(yr comment on arundhati roy) was the beginning,--
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