Not responsible for moderated comments or your therapy bills..write at your own risk.
I also remember...WMD buried in the Bakaa Valley that Saddam sent there on flatbed trucks.
I remember Haditha, AUg 3 2005. 14 Marines killed in one episode. 6 Marines had been killed that same week in this same town.
NUKE them all. And leave my Marines alone.
Right on Kender. I'd say you are a little bit passionate on this subject.
I don't hear the calls for an investigation from the moonbats when terrorists kill our boys!
Your rant just demonstrates your incredible lack of moral fortitude. Murder is murder no matter where the person or persons live. It is still a crime and must be punished as such. Your attempt at moral depravity does nothing but expose the underbelly of the right wing. For people like you there is always the excuse. The truth in Haditha may emerge and the Marines IF they are guilty must be punished. You would not say the same offensive rant about a murderer in this country but apparently you would allow it to occur because it happened in Iraq. Talk about moral relativity.
Murtha is a more in the loop about the nature of what happened in Haditha than the public. He happens to get much more information about the workings of the military inside Iraq. He is attempting to find out what the truth is by exposing it to scrutiny rather than cover it up like the current morally corrupt administration. Your contempt for the people of Iraq is a display of the worst kind of morality. Apparently only Americans are allowed to be treated as people and the rest of the world deserves murder and mayhem.
Herbie, I never said they shouldn't be punished if they were guilty and there is no "moral relativity" here.
Lack of moral fortitude? How's that exactly? By declaring unequivocally that our marines don't deserve to be convicted before all the evidence is in?
The lawyers are already looking at NOT providing the forensic evidence that could acquit them like it did in the Pantano case. One thing they DID learn from the Pantano case--don't allow all the evidence to appear in court.
The families have denied the investigation the opportunity to do autopsies which could provide them with the evidence that could clear them.
The problem that I have with the statement 'lack of moral fortitude' is the lack of moral fortitude which encourages people to NOT employ the commonly held belief that people should be consider innocent until proven guilty.
Are the facts all in? No.
Is this a simple situation of right or wrong? No.
Our soldiers are fighting an enemy which scares the hell out of the locals, who silently sanction killing another soldier. The marines have been enduring this kind of complicity from the locals for months now.
Does an accessory to murder deserve consequences for their actions?
If someone was raping your wife and another person holding a knife to her neck, which one is guilty of the crime? They both are.
If someone turns his head while someone is being held up, is he an accessory to the crime because he didn't call the police?
Moral relevance is simply wrong.
Our marines are wearing uniforms; the enemy is not. The enemy raises their children to kill themselves in the cause of jihad.
If we oblige them that makes us criminals? I don't think so. We're giving them what they want, right?
We should declare war on islamofascism because once we do, the people who are speaking against us and in favor of guys like Jose Padilla, Lynne Stewart, the blind sheikh, and all the rest of the terrorists here on our soil could be arrested and tried for sedition and treason.
Even though technically we haven't been able to declare war on terrorism doesn't mean the war doesn't exist. It is very real; you need only read texts written by Zarqawi, Bin Laden, Sami and all the rest.
You are morally bankrupt if you think that declaring someone guilty before all the facts are in is justified.
And further, the fact that Murtha knows more about the general public about what happened in Haditha is laughable.
Unless he was there.
Were YOU?
Herbie, Murtha is condemning and convicting these Marines before they've even been indicted for trial!
Are you seriously saying that "innocent until proven quilty" is no longer the rule in our justice system?
If these men go to trial, and if they are cleared of all charges, I believe they have just cause to bring slander, libel and defamation of character suits against Rep. Murtha. Murtha's actions are even more despicable when you consider that he, too, served in wartime and knows - or ought to know - how public opinion can help or hinder our Armed Forces.
I could possibly cut a little slack for someone who hasn't "been there, done that" (Clinton, anyone?), but for Murtha to abuse his veteran status like this is an act of vile opportunism. You notice that he's only appeared on the national news since he recommended retreating from Iraq immediately? The man is simply an attention-hungry publicity hound, and I refuse to offer him the honor due his position, because he has sorely abused it by attempting to drag the honor of our Marines through the mud.
I wish he could be introduced to two or three Marines who had served in Iraq, 'cause he needs the concepts of "Honor, Duty, and Country" 'splained to him...
-- R'cat
www.CatHouseChat.com
herbie said: "He is attempting to find out what the truth is by exposing it to scrutiny rather than cover it up like the current morally corrupt administration."
Murtha already thinks he knows what the truth is - he has said so. He couldn't care less about the process, he's already announced their guilt - and he has asked NO QUESTIONS. Zero, zilch, nada. Please- you are pathetically naive to think that Murtha's got anything other than a personal political agenda.
The rest of your sanctimonious little tantrum is laughable. Seriously, I'm laughing my ass off right now to get a lecture on "MORALITY" from a liberal moonbat. Since when do any of you guys care about morality? And moral relativity??? Libs have got the market cornered on that one. It's hilarious to me how ya'll are screeching about morals this and morals that - the absurdity of it is astounding!!!!!
But then again, maybe you're a saint, right, herbie? A devoutly moral person of the highest order with no flaws, hmm? So apparently that must qualify you to toss the frickin' rule of law out the window for the sheer glee of condeming our brave Marines to a life sentence or death - without ever hearing ONE GODDAMN FACT!!! Dude - who died and made you God?
Herbie,
Murder is murder no matter where the person or persons live. It is still a crime and must be punished as such.
If this is the case, then why aren’t you railing against the bastard in Indianapolis that just shot a family of seven, execution-style, with three of them children? Or are you one of the many left-wingers that say we should try and understand what would drive a man to do such a thing, and assign him victim status, in the process? You cannot have it both ways, and yet, expect to be taken seriously.
This will be investigated and if charges are warranted, they will be filed and they will be tried. If they are found guilty, they will serve some serious time. You needn’t worry about that. But what you need to do is, do some serious reflection on your inward spirit and ascertain just why you want them to be guilty.
Apparently you wish to undermine the entire free press and democratic institutions of the country because you want to stifle what is reported. Sure lets wait for the trial to be over... hey lets try that in this country.. don't report on the murder down the street or the suspect because we do not know if he is guilty yet.. then and only then are we allowed to report it by your rules...
Sure that works for you apparently.
But for the rest of a democratic free press there is this funny belief that you report on the information that you have. The information we have has been reported and you have a problem with that .... you just do not want any negative press for your cause is the real point here. Justice is not even your concern. Nobody has suggested a lynching of the soldiers but there has been demonstrated a clear lack of concern for due process. An investigation should have occurred a long time ago. It is obvious from the witnesses, the bullet holes, the blood, the pictures, the American witnesses to the bodies, that something happened here. And basically you want to say shush.. don't report on this ... You basically oppose a free press ... come on now be honest for a change.
Herbie, a FREE press ought also to be a responsible press - and this sort of coverage is highly irresponsible. Certainly the press ought to report that there is a possible problem and that these Marines may be indicted for murder, but that's really as far as it ought to go.
I'm sure you realize that this sort of reporting would make jury selection very difficult if these men were civilians? This is NOT a case of censorship, rather it's a need to keep the case and the chain of evidence as free as possible from bias. But, we all know how "fair" and "unbiased" the media is, don't we? [/sarcasm]
The media's fascination for Rep. Murtha's opinions - and, really, that's ALL they are: opinions - is quite rash and capricious. After all, whatever the outcome of the trial (*IF* it goes to trial), those men will have to go through their lives encountering people who believe what the media is "reporting" NOW whether or not the men are cleared of all charges.
And I'm sure, Herbie, that you were also cheering the MSM on when they so bravely published the Mohammed cartoons, right? Oh, excuse me, that's right - they didn't publish them, did they? So much for the "free" press - they're much more concerned for saving their own rear ends than they are for the actual truth.
-- R'cat
www.CatHouseChat.com
I find it so weird that they're objecting to our pointing out inconsistencies and downrights lies (like the TimesUK images of the dead in Iraq that were actually terrorist victims who were bloodied and bound rather than the Marines' victims in Haditha) in the press.
They published the 'koran flushing story', and it was false. And people died as a result of that irresponsible reporting.
They tried to turn the Abu Ghraib incident into 'the rule' in the public consciousness rather than an unfortunate anomale.
Really, if you look at it, there is far much more negative reporting on Iraq than there is positive. And that's to serve the anti-war movement and a political agenda, not because it's a 'free press'. That statement is getting to be comical, coming from people who consider 'rightwingers' "nazis".
Those people, by their very behavior, are painting themselves with that stripe. They want to shut down our voices and stop us from sharing our opinions on issues.
Look, if Murtha wants to spread around his opinion like fertilizer and the media helps him to do it before all the facts are in, then it's time for people to stand up in support of the marines who are in that snakepit of terrorist scum.
They say it's a 'free press' but it's not. It's a secular press that prints its version of 'facts' to paint a story based on a political agenda.
I mean look at how they go all-out for Cindy Sheehan. Cindy appeared in my town, and there were people standing their protesting HER. But did the media report that? No, she showed up fora bout 5 minutes after being driven by a Code Pink lady to the event, and did a photo op for the photographers who were planted there -and left. The media did a whole report with pictures of her and left her dissenters out of it.
That's not 'free press'. That's propaganda manufacturing like the Iraq Information minister.
Herbie, Ogre here. Yes, the Ogre that's the source of the quote in this initial post.
You don't know what the word "murder" means, Herbie. When the Marines cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys because the bad guys ARE women and children, there are no innocents. Murder implies forethought of malice against an innocent. Those who are engaged in the war do not have time, nor are they capable of forethought -- it's a damn war.
And there are no innocents when the vast majority of the people in the town are trying to kill you, using their children and women.
It's a WAR. People die.
My contribution to this:
http://rociburden.blogspot.com/2...ut-
haditha.html
Herbie you dumbass, no one is saying not to report anything. We are saying to stop declaring the Marines guilty before the damn investiagation is over. Murtha is from my state of PA, I know him personally, and all one has to do is check his voting record to what kind of untrustworthy asshole he is.
Not a single report I have seen has declared the Marines guilty of anything. Every report has been to the tune of reporting the 'allegations' and they have cleared stated them as such. The fact that if made it this far to the news indicates that there is a need for further investigation. The attitude here is that nothing like this is ... 1) important.. who cares about innocent civilians in a time of war right Ogre... or 2)it is not possible for American marines to commit murder..
The investigation is necessary to discover the truth, an investigation that would never have happened without the press reporting on the issue.
Nope, Herbie, you're not getting it. You seem to assume that every single person in the middle east, except those that are actively engaged in the sawing off of people's heads is an "innocent." They're not. The MAJORITY of people in the town where this happened are NOT innocent. They're either actively participating in the deaths of Americans, or they're complicit in it -- seeing where bombs are placed and not saying anything.
Good thing I'm not in charge, I'd napalm the whole village and be done with it.
Herbie, you have missed the point entirely, it is not the reporting of the issue that is the problem, it is reporting the issue as though the party was guilty BEFORE even the investigation was completed. You guys yell like stuck hogs when the right tries to do it... and if you will look at todays news, the Democrats in congress are trying to dump Wm. Jefferson (D, Louisianna) and he hasn't even been indicted yet... The congressional black caucus objects because there is no point in law for the Dems actions... I agree with them although my opinion is that he is probably guilty... Typical of the Dems to exploit Black America... use them but dump them any time there is a problem...
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