Hi Angelo. I'm sorry but I'm no longer sending out mother. I'd be happy to help you figure out what may be going wrong if you can describe what exactly you've been doing. Also, how long have you let the wine sit after adding the mother? Are you getting green or white mold? Where did you purchase the mother?
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I tried so many times, to make my own red wine vinegar but failed. I've followed your suggestions to the letter. The only think I can think of is that my mother is no good. I used a 'mother' from an online source which turned out to be useless. How can I avail of some of your mother? You seem to have the best luck with this.
Thanks
Angelo
LA, California
Hey Lisa, very cool!! I put a little vinegar in my soups too or anything that needs a little brightening.
Some of my best vinegars have been made from fruit wines - cherry and apricot in particular.
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I just wanted to stop back in and let you know that my white vinegar is humming now, along with the red. We really enjoy it in salad dressings and in soups to provide a big of kick.
We are now working on Blackberry since someone gave us a very bad bottle of blackberry wine, but it seems to dry up faster than it can convert. We might try half BB wine and half regular red next.
Thanks again for all of your help and support.
Hi Michele - there are a few discussions here on using Braggs - you'll find them through a search.
I don't know if there's a hard and fast rule on ratio but if it were me I'd use a quart jar with 1 cup Braggs and the rest wine.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Cheers,
Kim
I'm just beginning on this & used the Bragg organic apple cider vinegar with mother. What is the ratio of wine to the Bragg vinegar?
Thanks!
Bobby - absolutely!!
Overly careful: Is Beaujolais OK for vinegar?
Hi Bobby - we all still here. Glad to hear that you had great success! Keep up the good work.
FWIW - I know that rubber bands deteriorate over time but I just keep using the ones wrapped around vegetables I buy in the store.
Stay in touch.
Kim
HELLO????
Kim??? "Is anybody in there?" (Pink Floyd)
My vinegar is fantastic. Though a newbee I am well acquainted with taking time. I tasted: WOW, acid baby! And too much wine flavor; it was not done.
I let it sit until I smelled vinegar and looked and the mother was thick. About 2 months with no futzing: just let it sit.
I harvested just a small bottle and it is great.
I tossed in another 1/3 bottle of wine and some water to start the mother as I did nothing for two months. I hope I'm ready to figure out the harvest cycle now.
ALSO, forget rubber bands to secure the cloth at the top. Use string. I like a simple piece of cloth with Velcro on it. Maybe a piece of elastic with Velcro.
Rubber bands deteriorate and mine had done so and who knows when. No damage I suspect but it was a lesson.
Hi Kim.
Thank you for such a great site! You are the one who indeed started me on my wine vinegar endeavor. I am using a large glass container with a pillowcase slid over it and an elastic around the top edge to keep the wee buggies out. Everything seemed to be going fine although I must say Mother grew very quickly. So quickly in fact, that she's consumed all liquids and all I have in the jar is Mother. I loath to put any more wine in there until I know how to rectify this. Any suggestions?
Hi Cathy - I don't think freezing it would hurt it at all. I know some people who freeze leftover wine in frozen cubes for sauce making, etc. and the wine is still very good.
Cheers,
Kim
Thank you so much for your website. Happily for me, many friends have given me very good quality wine for my vinegar making. I was wondering if storing it in my freezer until adding it to my vinegar crock would be a bad idea?
Thanks again. Cathy K
Jonathon, thank you for your question. The alcohol is already consumed by the time the mother is fully formed. It sinks when it grows too heavy or when you put liquid on top of it and it smothers. If you have a nice mother growing - don't worry - just do what you are currently doing. If it sinks, so be it, it'll grow again. Once a year you might want to clean out the container of the old sunken mother. It won't have any effect on the liquid in the container.
Hi,
Great site you have here. Lot's of interesting information and stories.
I have a question: I've had red wine going to vinegar for about 2 months now. I have a nice leathery mother on top so things seem to be moving along. Problem is, I always read about the mother sinking to the bottom however, this phenomenon has never happened for me. Is the alcohol content too strong?
Thanks, Jon
Mary - I just fermented watermelon juice in the hope of making watermelon vinegar so I don't see why you couldn't do that with figs. Let us know how it turns out.
Thanks for the fig vinegar tips. I saw the info on making a fruit vinegar by adding vinegar to fruit. I was thinking that the figs could be fermented and then made into vinegar. I may experiment. I'll let you know how it turns out!
Hi Kim,
Thanks again. Fully understood and fully agreed.
I will return to you as soon as my new start up with Leener's starter hopefully succeeds.
Thanks
Pitu
Madrid, Spain.
pitu@eurosigma.eu
Hi Pitu - The mother is the liquid. It will eventually grow into a cellulose cap and sink then grow again because the liquid is the mother. Actobacter is in the air and will settle on the surface of your liquid and start the process all over again. Does this makes sense? Once the wine has turned to vinegar there is no more alcohol. The alcohol has been converted to acetic acid. It will live as long as it has air and is fed fresh wine from time-to-time.
Good luck!
Hi Mary - boy, lucky you. I love fig vinegar and wish I had a bushel or so in order to try my hand at making fig vinegar. I leafed through several of my canning books and saw a couple ideas that might work. One says to cook the figs until they are fairly dense and concentrated then add to it a commercial white vinegar to the consistency that you like. You may either keep the figs in the vinegar or let it sit for a few weeks then strain. Be sure to put either in steraliuzed bottles. The Culinary Institute of America's book, Garde Manger, The Culinary Craft of the Cold Kitchen suggests the same thing.
I do have a method for preserving figs in brandy that looks pretty good,. I think it calls for a water bath canning process. Let me know if you'd like me to type that up for you.
As for the Mucadines, Michael Chiarello's book Flavored Oils and Vinegars metioned making vinegar by adding commercial wine yeasts to straight grape juice to start primary fermentation then adding vinegar mother when fermentation has stopped. Or, you can just leave the juice open to the elements and let air borne yeasts do its thing.
Here are a few links I found on making fig vinegar:
http://www.practicallyedible.com...ages/
figvinegar
http://www.ehow.com/how_4995162_...ig-
vinegar.html
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!!
Anyone know how to make fig vinegar from my abundant crop of figs? Can I make vinegar from muscadines - the fruit, not wine? Thanks!
Dear Kim,
Thanks very much for your kind comments. Sorry for returning that late. I was off for 10 days, and everything did pile up.
It is clear that the sunk mother will die. But you say that the mother culture in the unpasteurized vinegar will produce again mother.
Am I correct that last statement will only be true if there is around some remaining alcohol to be transformed into acetic acid??. Thanks to conmfirm me this, if I am right.
Meanwhile I bought and I received Vinegar mother from Leener's. In fact it is not mother glob it is let's say alive vinegar or call it non pasteurized vinegar. I hope in three months I will have my new vinegar.
In Spain all vinegar sold in food stores, is pasteurized.
I found some vinegar supposed to be
organic but I got nowhere with it using it as starter.
Let's see where I get with the Leener's one.
Thanks very much for your help and time.
Kind regards
Pitu
Hi Tom, I sure hope it works for you. I love Champagne vinegar! I've made raspberry and cherry wine vinegars. They are really good as the fruit aspect is maintained - you can still really taste the fruit.
Stay in touch and let us know how things work out.
Kim
Dear Pitu
Yes, the mother will die if it is deprived of oxygen but there's mother culture in the liquid so even if the mother sinks it will regrow again.
I've not had a problem using wine with sulfites.
I don't remember who made the culture I bought all those years ago but there are a few places that carry it - try http://www.localharvest.org/orga...-starter-
C10988
I don't know if they'll ship to Spain.
Have you tried finding local commercial vinegar that's unpasteurized? There are a few companies here in the states that sell it, like Bragg's Vinegar.
Good luck!
Hi Kim,
Put it off long enough. Started #1 with 6oz of my MERLOT and 4oz Braggs and put it in a 1qt glass jar. #2 with 6oz my GREEN APPLE RIESLING and 4oz Braggs in a 1qt enameled sauce pan. Sanitized everything, as I do for the wine, with "B-BRITE" an oxygen sanitizer. Covered containers with large coffee filters and a towel, since the glass was see through. Hope they work since I would like to do champagne, sherry and raspberry merlot...Tom..
Kim,
I keep trying to do what you did and never reached to really do it.
I realize I always got "dead mother" or I killed it myself letting the mother sink in the wine to the bottom. Only recently I learnt that when the mother sinks, dies due to the lack of oxygen.
I don't even try to aks you for mother, but
1. Could you let me know a brand or a seller of what you bought in Detroit years ago """They also stocked the mycoderma aceti , the bacteria culture, used to make vinegar. It comes in a jar and is clear, like water."""
Could you please help me to buy that via Internet?.
2. Today almost all wines carry sulphites. Do you think you still can produce vinegar out leftover of such a wine.
I will thank you very much for any comments.
Gratefully,
Pitu Gracia, from Madrid in Spain.
Thanks.
Tom, I use wood chips in some of my vinegars after I take it out of the crock. I let the chips soak in the vinegar for a couple of weeks then filter it out. Really smoothes out the flavor!
I don't think you're going to get a cidery taste using the Braggs. Plus, over time, you'll be adding back so much wine that it'll be a moot point in a year or so... And, the only time I've been able to tell a varietal flavor is with fruit based wine. Sweet Rieslings are delicious but I can't tell the diff between a Merlot vinegar vs a Cabernet and I drink a lot of those grape varieties.
How much wine are you starting out with?
Ah Ha, I thought the mother would be in the top of the bottle. Alas, I guess I have to start one with wine and a few spoons of the shaken BRAGGS.
Hi Kim,
Found the Braggs at GNC. If I want to create a mother should I just put it in a wide mouth jar and see what developes?? This is the Apple cider and I am going for wine type vinegars so I was thinking of using as little of the cider as posible.
P:S:
Sulfites are in all wines as the grape peels protection against decay. Friends that have their faces "flush" when drinking store bought never have a problem with my home made. "Cork taint" is another problem that I don't think I have ever come accross with home made. I still have some 8 year old Merlots and an Amarone. It takes 5 to 10 years to quiet the tannins in Merlot. Ageing makes for a superb Merlot wine.
Hi Kim,
Tried "Trader Joe's" for "mother", they only sell pasturized vinegars. Next, on to GNC where "Bragg's" website sent me.
Question? I put oak pieces in some wine processes to add that flavor, would it also work in vinegars?
Just one more, If I used cider mother as a starter for sherry or champagne and didn't add the vinegar itself would I still get a very cidery taste? Your humble opinion as usual will be greatly appreciated...Thanks..Tom..
Hi Tom - thank you for your kind words. Best of luck on your vinegar endeavors and let us know how it turns out!!
Cheers,
Kim
Your Forum is a boon to those interested in making VINEGAR. I make homemade wines and have always wanted to try vinegar from the left-overs. Now I'll finally start. The best to all who are in the process...Tom...
Ginny, I use a ladle and gently push pass the mother to bring up the liquid that is at the top of the crock. That way, I don't get as much sediment in it. If you push too hard and sink the mother, don't worry. Another one will grow.
Cheers,
Kim
Thanks for the quick response! I, too, was surprised that it still smells like wine and that there's no mold. I had an idea you might respond with that idea. I don't have Braggs, but I do have some unpasteurized, unfiltered cider vinegar, so I poured about a cup of it into half of the wine in a separate container. It's now covered with cheesecloth and back in it's cupboard above the refrigerator. I'll let you know in a month or three how it's going. By the way, I did think of another question for you; when you mention that you syphon off some of the produced vinegar, exactly how do you do that if you have a large jar without a spigot?
Thanks again for the quick response!!
Ginny
Hi Ginny - I'm really surprised that it does not smell like vinegar after all those years. No mold growing on top? Does it taste ok? I'd certainly try to make vinegar out of it. What do you have to lose? Replace the top with a piece of cloth or paper napkin and hold in place with a rubber band. Put it in a dark warm place and see what happens over the next three months. If you have some raw vinegar like Braggs Cider vinegar I'd put about a cup of that in it to get it started. Let us know how it turns out.
Cheers,
Kim
What an informative site!! When I first started researching this "hobby", I couldn't find answers to my questions, but just reading through all of these q&a's has almost done the job. I have one last question. I have a cheap(ish) jug of wine that has been partially consumed and was set up in a cupboard (corked) and forgotten about for 3-4 years. I had intended to use it to cook with. It's turned somewhat dark and has some sediment floating around, but it still has a winey smell, just not as strong as when it was uncorked. Is the wine useable for vinegar?
Lawrence - I am not qualified to answer your questions with any authority. However, I can tell you that two wineries - one on the west coast and one here in Michigan both produce vinegar on the side. Both have told me that they keep the vinegar barrel(s) far, far away from their wine operation. The California winemaker said "in the next building" when I asked him over ten years ago. He would not quantify how far that was.
Good luck!!
Hi Kim -
I'm a homebrewer & a sourdough baker.I just picked up a red wine mother to play with & plan tokeep it in my kitchen with my sourdough mothers ... additionally, this is where I do my brewing.
Have you any idea what sort of cross contamination issues I should be aware of between the vinegar, bread & beer wort?
Is there a preventative cleaning regimen I might need to consider? I use 1 step for my beer making (Oxygen cleaner).
Thanks much.
Tx, Kim, I will ! Rob
Hi Rob. It may take 3 months or more. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Cheers,
Kim
Hi, I am attempting to create my own mother from scratch. About 3 weeks ago I put on the porch a clean, wide mouth Ball jar, half filled with great red wine.
I left it there for a couple hours in the hope the fresh spring air would inoculate the wine. Once indoors I sealed the mouth with a paper towel affixed with a rubber band. My question is, how long should I expect to wait til something grows on the wine's surface? So far it's perfectly clear. Many tx, Rob
Hi Kim,
No, the spigot is plastic.
I uploaded a photo to here (cooking tab)
http://home.comcast.net/~moscuba...?/page/Cooking/
Hi Louise. I have no experience with Kombucha. I do know that the mother looks very similar to mother of vinegar.
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I am wondering if this mother of vinegar is the same fungal mat as what I know as Kombucha mother.
Kombucha produces a pro-biotic drink from brewed tea. It looks like a piece of chicken and when it is put into the tea, it forms a new mother on the top. The Kombucha drink is somewhat vinegry when done and the longer you let the Kombucha ferment in the tea the more sour the drink becomes.
Louise
Cool idea, Bobby! Wish we could see a photo of your crock.
One word of caution - metal. Is the spigot in your glass crock made of metal? If it is it will probably corrode over time and become unusable - or at least something that you might not want your vinegar running through.
Cheers,
Kim
INEXPENSIVE CROCK
Ceramic crocks are cool but expensive, especially when shipped. My vinegar is in the kitchen so I wanted something that looks OK. Being cheap I made a faux ceramic jar.
I bought a glass jar with a spigot (I call them “Sun Tea Jars”). They are about $7.
I then bought a stone look spray paint (many kinds, “Fleckstone” is one name). I selected a smother sand colored one that looks real. That’s about $5 (enough to treat two or more jars). It takes 2+ coats and that paint is very smelly so spray outside. I left the plastic lid on to keep the paint off the screw top.
COOLNESS FACTOR: putting a piece of painters tape on the jar, when peeled off leaves a window to view the contents.
WARNING
My jar, 2 coats, when held to bright light is not completely dark inside. A darker color or maybe a black undercoat might do the job. So, don't expect to be able to sit yours where bright light/sun shines. Do the test.
My vinegar is moving along nicely. Not to give an endorsement but I will, I bought my Mother from eBay, Seller: obfess called "Mother of all Vinegar Starters". Shipped in glass, left for just one day a nice piece of Mother revealed itself even after shipping.
Hello and thanks very much for the fantastic information. I've been excited about starting some vinegar (have a fun wine collection so often have remnants) for some time
2 questions:
If anyone is willing to sell/ship a piece of mother, please email me! I'm having trouble finding some locally.
Any recommendations on where to buy a couple gallon barrel?
Thanks very much in advance!
Paul thanks for the offer. I found Braggs vinegar so I am currently trying that route. If nothing happens I will post again.
Thanks
Craig
Wow Lisa! You go girl!! I'm glad everything worked out for you. What are some of the things you are doing with the vinegar?
Thanks for the kind words.
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I just wanted to stop by with a note of thanks. I haven't been on your board for a few months, but my crock of red wine vinegar is finally "humming" to the point where it makes a new mother in less than a week when we feed it.
Two weeks ago, I tried again with a few tablespoons of red vinegar and about two cups of white wine and I had a mother formed in about two weeks! I am looking forward to feeding her into a beautiful white vinegar like you have on your site.
Finally, tonight I wrapped up some mother to ship to a friend as a present and I gave her your URL. I am sure she will learn as much from your site as I have! I still come back regularly to read the comments.
Thanks for everything.
Hi Marta - bringing the vinegar to a near boil and holding it there for about 10 minutes will kill the mother. I used to bring it to a rapid boil in the microwave but since learned that it's not really necessary to actually boil it. I've not seen mother grow after it has been intensely heated. But even if it does grow in the bottle, it is only cosmetic. It won't hurt you.
And yes, it does stink up the kitchen! 
But it's a good stink!!!
How do you kill the mother when you pour off vinegar from your crock? Even in the refrigerator my vinegar produces a new mother. That's inconvenient when I want to store vinegar for a while (especially when I pour it into a bottle with a small neck).
I've tried boiling the vinegar once or twice. The whole house smells and my eyes smart. Even then the vinegar sometimes produces a new mother. Maybe I need to use the grill and do it out of doors.
I have a mother that originally started as a red wine mother. It took something like four generations to produce an actual white vinegar mother. It went through several interesting color stages before it lost the deep burgundy color.
Marta
Hi Bobby. Thanks for the follow-up. The 7% statistic sounds much more reasonable.
Cheers,
Kim
Kim,
Now you woke up the geek in me!
I didn't note the reference regarding the TCA. I looked again and found one reference that contradicts my statement in that up to 7% of wines from Napa contain TCA.
(Wikipedia) "The cork-industry group APCOR cites a study showing a 0.7-1.2% taint rate. In a 2005 study of 2800 bottles tasted at the Wine Spectator blind-tasting facilities in Napa, California, 7% of the bottles were found to be tainted.[1]"
Wine Spectator has reported that such California wineries as Pillar Rock Vineyard, Beaulieu Vineyard, E & J Gallo Winery and Chateau Montelena have had trouble with Systemic TCA.[5]
And, less concerns:
(Wikipedia): The use of chlorine or other halogen-based sanitizing agents is being phased out of the wine industry in favor of peroxide or peracetic acid preparations.
Yes, my Cabs that are "dull" are over aged, none have had a bad smell. I'll also toss in 50% new wine in the starter batch.
Hi Sandy - I don't use barrels so I can't answer your questions based on any experience on my part but if I had a barrel I would dump my jars into the barrel now. I don't see a reason to wait. Go for it!
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Bobby G. I am experimenting with a 3 liter bottle full of corked wines. It actually smells pretty good right now and the flavor is acceptable. I'm probably going to remove my comment about not using TCA infected wines for vinegar.
As for your wine that is turning dull - it's just getting old and past its prime drinking window. It's not "corked." I would certainly use that for vinegar without hesitation. Also, I have never heard that "...TCA is found in almost all wines..." Where did you read that? I'd like to see the source of that information.
Thanks,
Kim
Hi Carlene - the mother that has fallen to the bottom is indeed "dead." However, all the the liquid in the crock is impregnated with the mother culture so if you remove the dead slab and give it to someone, it will still have culture on it. It's that culture that will start a new batch of vinegar and grow a new mother cap.
As for the Boone's Farm strawberry wine, (that's some pretty scary stuff!) I would not put it in an established crock but I would pour it into a quart jar and add about a half cup of vinegar from the established crock. It might turn into an interesting vinegar. If you do that let us know how it turns out!
Cheers,
Kim
I started making vinegar about a month ago one is red and the other is malt. Both are doing great the mothers are forming...(malt was faster). My Question is I decided to buy oak barrels. When can I transfer the vinegar and mothers? or should I? is it safe? Right now they are in one gallon glass jars.
Thanks for all the help
Sandy
Notes on Corked wine: avoiding and removing TCA from your vinegar (and wine).
When I dive into something it is with gusto. I ordered my mother and have yet to start making vinegar. I was concerned about the corked wine as the reason I am making vinegar as I have quite a few cabs that are drinkable but are becoming dull. The chance for developing a cork flavor in the vinegar is moderate (apparently TCA is found in almost all wines and can increase but usually due to compounds that vinegar making can avoid).
As to avoiding TCA, from my studies, avoid chlorinated water and in wine making, using a cleaner other than sodium hypochlorite may help. So, when adding water to the vinegar with your wine, use non-chlorinated water.
As to removing TCA you are correct, polyethylene has been patented for its effectiveness in reducing TCA (wine was the test product). HDPE works and is common in food grade containers (buckets).
I don’t think I’ll entertain the thought of using HDPE granules and then filtering as commercial applications do. I think I’ll wait until I need to do the experiment (hopefully never) and then expose the vinegar to the material.
Several references but us patent 6610342 is all you may need to read.
Cheers and thank you for the good writing.
Kim, another question: we were given a bottle of Boone's Farm strawberry wine, which is a citrus flavored wine, as a joke. Once my new batch gets going, can I add this to get rid of it? Thanks!
Dear Kim, wonderful information. After reading these posts and on several other sites, it seems that after the mother has dropped to the bottom, it is "dead". But then it's suggested that the mother on the bottom can also be used to start a new batch. How can it be dead but still be useful to make a new batch?
Thanks, Carlene
re:craig
where to ship
i have old mother (2 batches old)
or can get you new and ship or both
where are you
ps love your site got me started
Does anyone know a good merchant that will ship mother. I am having a hard time finding anyone to ship it. Or if anyone has a spare piece I would be glad to send paypal for the shipping and container.
Hi Chris - the mother is in the vinegar liquid. If you can get a cup of his vinegar (and assuming he did not heat it to destroy the active culture), just put that cup in a quart jar and fill it with wine. Wait a couple two-three months and you are on your way. You can then grow it from there. You can buy commercial mother on the Internet but I don't think there's "aged" mother available. Even if there was aged mother it will not make your newly added wine more special on the spot. Only age will. At least, that's my opinion.
Hi Bill - see my thoughts below your questions:
I wuold like to know:
1) To start what is the max amount of wine that I can add to the vinegar/ mother.
I'd start with a quart jar and fill it to the shoulder
2) Do I need to add water to the wine before puting it in the vineger, if yes how much water to wine.
Is this a commercial mother? If yes and the instructions say to add water - I never did and neither have other vinegars friends.
3) When feeding the vinegar what is the max amount of wine that I can add at one time.If not the same as item 1)
It depends on how old the vinegar is. When I originally started out, I went small - a glass or two a month after three months of age. Now, I dump whole bottles in or don't add anything for months - I go by look, smell and taste. My crocks age in range from 18 years to 3 months.
4) How often can I feed/add wine to the vinegar.
It's not an exact science unless you are producing commercially.
Thank you for your help,
Bill P
My father has a barrel of vinegar that has been passed down to him that has been passed down for about 60 years, and let me tell you the vinegar is wonderful. This is all from the same mother. Is this possible that the mother is still alive and working? It certanly taste like it. Also, My father is very greedy and will not let me have much of his vinegar and or a piece of the mother. Is there a websight or somewhere I can just buy a mother from that has some good age to it? I have the barrel and plenty of wine to fill the barrel. Money is not an issue for a good mother.
Thanks,
Chris
Kim,
I would like to make vinegar with a good part of my homemade wine.
There are no chemicals in my wine, I only use grapes juice.
A friend gave me a small jar of home made vinegar with some mother, about 12oz.
I wuold like to know:
1) To start what is the max amount of wine that I can add to the vinegar/ mother.
2) Do I need to add water to the wine before puting it in the vineger, if yes how much water to wine.
3) When feeding the vinegar what is the max amount of wine that I can add at one time.If not the same as item 1)
4) How often can I feed/add wine to the vinegar.
Thank you for your help,
Bill P
Dear mom - I don't really know. I'd toss it and start over.
Help - my mother smells yeasty. There's white stuff growing on top. Does that mean she's dead?
Hi Laurie - I do not make vinegar in barrels although I'd love to. I've just been a little frugal about purchasing one. My friend, Linda Baldwin, does. She reports that you cut a larger hole in the top of the barrel so that you can get out the mother.
Are you actually making the vinegar in the barrels? I like the idea of using an oak barrel to make vinegar...I bet it results in a nice flavor but how do you get the mother out of the barrel?
THanks.
Kim,
How does this Wednesday afternoon sound? Any specific instruction on how to find you? Also, can you provide a phone number in case something comes up?
Thank you,
Matt
M-F 9-5 but I can be there on weekends if need be.
Cheers,
Kim
Kim,
Thanks. I think I can do that. What kind of hours do you keep?
Thanks again,
Matt
Matt, I'll give you some but why don't you stop by my place of employment in Ferndale - Winebuys.com - 10567 Galaxie - 248-658-1081. Call first to give me a heads up that you are coming and I'll have some for you.
Kim,
Caught a rebroadcast of your Splendid Table interview and that lead me here. Very cool. I would love some red and white mother if you are still in the business of kindness to foodies. Just let me know what you would like- self addressed envelope, $$, etc. I'm in Livonia so it should be a quick ship by snail-mail.
Thanks,
Matt
Hi David - Time will tell, I suppose. There are active cultures in the air that assist liquids with fermentation. Perhaps your commercial vinegar was not pasteurized and it still had some mother in it, like Braggs vinegar. Or not - I don't know. You could be tasting the overwhelming taste of the original vinegar. But like I said, there are active cultures at work all around us so perhaps some day you will see some mother growing. Just give it a lot of air, keep it warm and in a darkish place and wait...
Let us know how it turns out.
Kim,
Without any knowledge of vinegar, I added some commercial red wine vinegar to a bottle of mixed left over red wine.
After several weeks and some and additional pours of new wine, I now have what smells and tastes like s strong but flavorful vinegar.
Have I just created a blend that will not perpetuate it self or could this be the start of a mother?
Dave
I guess then you must be a "grandmother" since my mother is from your mother....
Thanks, Kim. I have a small 3 quarts going on the kitchen counter. I wanted to check it out, first. There were no instructions with what I got, so I decided to just go for it and see what happened. It's clear, but with a reddish tinge. Hmmm....
The wormy thing is probably 7 inches long! Really creepy, but hopefully good. Can one start with too much mother?
Hi Pam - lucky you with all that available wine!! Commercial mother is clear. The worm thingie is probably a piece of mother. Start small according to the instructions and see what you end up with in a couple of months.
I have read that people have used Bragg's vinegar with good results (and bad results). Again, start small before adding gallons of wine.
Let us know how it turns out.
Hi Mom!
Love those old war posters. Guess where Christine got her mother from!
I went and purchased a mother from our local brewing supply store. The guy didn't know much about it. It's in a bottle of clearish liquid, but it looks like a huge tube-like worm is in there; is that a normal thing? I'm a bit worried
We've been brewing wine and have gallons of wine left over so I wanted to make vinegar; what do you think of the wormy thing? Also, our local store sells Bragg's - would that be fine?
Hi Kim -
Just found your post about viengar - love making it myself. Check out my latest blog entry for more on my vinegar stories!
Hi Lisa - That's too bad but I'd try again using your red wine mother once you have enough to experiment with. Stay in touch and let us know how it turns out.
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim, I just wanted to check back in and let you know what happened after all your advice. The white and cider vinegars were a total loss. Not matter how finely I filtered, I grew nasty white and green mold on top almost immediately. The red wine vinegar is going strong, we've harvested once, and are about to pull another full ounces off and give it a drink. Thanks for everyything, I would have given up without your advice.
Elizabeth - how long has the vinegar been "brewing?" What did you use to make it with - wine? When was the last time you fed it? Yes, the film on top is the mother. Leave it alone for now.
Cheers,
Kim
My vinegar is very week. It forms on top a gelatinous thick (if I leave it) film. Is that the "mother"? should I throw it away? and try to find the "real mother"?
Hi Alex - It makes sense that homemade vinegar will be higher in acid but one never knows. With home canning I'd rather not take the risk. For oak barrels try this site. I have not ordered from them so I can't vouch for the quality, etc. http://www.oakbarrel.com/
Cheers!
Kim
Question, Kim. Do you have a source for vinegar casks you recommend or should I just search online?
My dear Kim, yes, you may quote me. It would be my pleasure. Also, about using homemade vinegar for canning and preserving: I read a blog a while back where the foodie author tested her homemade vinegar before using it to make pickles. The homemade vinegar was way more acidic than her commercial vinegar. I know that your correspondent can google this and find the strips for testing online or more information there.
Alex
Hi Linda - I don't think you should use homemade vinegar for canning because you can't guarantee what the acidity percentage is. While it may be stronger than 5 or 6 percent - you never know. I can myself and would not use my vinegar for canning.
I used a fresh piece of red mother to start my white batch. The vinegar will be pinkish at first but eventually it'll lose the pink tint as you add more white wine over time. Then, of course, the white will eventually oxidize and the vinegar will really have more of a yellow hue to it. It won't be clear like distilled vinegar.
Your vinegar made from concord grapes should taste like a really strong vinegar with a grapey back-flavor. My fruit wine vinegars really taste like the fruit - cherry, raspberry, whatever. They are great on salads. I have a late harvest sweet Riesling vinegar that tastes really great on vanilla ice cream!!
I didn't see your comment before I wrote so I would like to add that it does smell and taste like "wine flavored" vinegar, maybe because of the Braggs. It smells really strong. I should post a picture. I am keeping on top of the fridge with a coffee filter over the top. I transfered it to a fresh jar and gently lifted the mother out with a wooden spoon. I filter the vinegar and put the mother back in and she sank. So I am waiting on the new one to begin. The first mother looked like an oil slick and then got thicker. When I added a little wine it sank and like two days later there was a new one just like the picture. I noticed it grew thicker everyday. I only added a little wine because I was afraid she would run out of whatever. She stayed and then today when I filtered, she sank. I am still totally excited. I will slow down with the wine. I wish I knew what it was supposed to really taste like. Thank, Linda
After only two weeks using the grapes & Bragg's it was an actual mother. It's been since 4/14 and I already am on the third one. I added wine and the second one which looked just like the pictures sank. I can't believe how fast they come back. Can I use the old mother to begin a new vinegar for white wine. I started with concord grapes and red wine? Do you know of anyone who uses the vinegar to can with? I would like to use it for my recipes. I am assuming that the white wine would be the closest to the distilled vinegar we use from the grocery. Would that be correct?
Thanks,
Linda
Alex! I love you! And I don't even know you. What great words of wisdom.
When I redo my vinegar pages, may I quote you?
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Linda - I don't have much experience making vinegar from plain grape juice. I think it's better if the juice had actually fermented but it can be done! If it were me, I'd wait 3 more months before transferring it to a larger container. This assumes that there is actual vinegar there. Smell and taste will tell. You probably don't need to feed it during these first three months unless you are getting major evaporation. Once you transfer it to a larger container, what do you plan on adding to it? More grape juice or wine?
Cheers,
Kim
It worked!!!!! Thank you, Kim, for all your encouragement. I've decided that making vinegar is about having faith and not giving up. It's about trusting a process, and letting go. It's about the brilliant mysteries of nature and all those who came before us who weren't absolutists, just lovers of goodness and people who recycled everything.
I had checked sites with statistics and formulas, and absolute this and absolute that. Well, you can't tell me that Italian grandmothers did anything other than dump stuff together and wait, in their infinite wisdom. This, my friends, is a feminine process of instinct and hope. So we kept at it. The mother (mother! but of course!) is shiny and strong on top. The vinegar tastes great, and when the mother drops, we'll harvest and start again. Happy Mother's Day!
I am just starting out. I bought some Braggs, and dumped 1/2 vinegar (that I shook up) and 1/2 grape juice from grapes that I crushed. After about 1/2 mos. I have something growing on top. I havent't smelled it yet. I started it in a quart canning jar with a coffee filter over top. If this is an actual "mother", and the vinegar has started, when do I feed it and how do I tranfer it to an actual crock.
I am so excited. My goal is to add some tasty vinaigrettes to my Christmas baskets of canning this year. I love your site!! Thank you so much.
Linda
Hi Kim,
I used a commercial culture off eBay. Two bottles, actually, one "white" and one "red." I guess I'll get a bottle of cheapish sweet wine of each color and dump it in and see what happens in another week.
I suppose I can start over from the mother if I have to, but I'm completely bummed. We never even got to use any of it.
Thanks,
--Lisa
Lisa, I am sorry that this happened. What a bummer! I also started a new container of cherry wine in January and just pulled off a cap that was not moldy but was very strange looking nonetheless. I'm fairly certain that it would have molded over had I left it a little longer. I tasted it about 5 weeks ago before that cap had formed and while it was not exactly good, it didn't suck either so I hoped for the best. I'm probably going to toss it out. There are a lot of comments here about mold - do a search and see what pops up. Did you use commercial mother culture or Braggs?
Kim,
I'm so disappointed - I started some vinegar in January, and we thought it would be ready by March, which it wasn't - it was still "winey." So I reattached the the cheesecloth and put it back up on its shelf. I checked it yesterday, and both the red and white were very very low (evaporation?) had the top layer of mother covered in mold! I reached in and pulled off the top layer and left the rest alone.
Is it salvageable? Should I transfer it to a new container, scrub the container out, put it back and add more wine? Should I just pour more wine and and see what happens? Or should I toss it - save the mother and throw out what's in the bottle otherwise?
Any advice appreciated. I'm so upset. 
Hi Kim,
After thinking of adding vinegar to my host of homemade treats for many years I have decided to "dump in". Thank you so much for your detailed info.
Being that you seem to still be in Detroit and I am an Ann Arborite and being that you seem to have a strong "sharing gene" and being that I would love to share back some little treat, I might be so bold to ask: "Are you my mother?"
I would be honored if the chance arises.
Jeff McCabe
Hi Kim,
Thanks for the link and info. After this batch is ready to draw from, I'll check w/my supply guy to see if he can widen the barrel's hole for me.
Have a great day!!
Mary
Hi Mary - There's a photo on my site of Linda Baldwin's three gallon barrel. Check out the hole! http://gangofpour.com/
diversions...ndabaldwin.html
It looks like she just cut the hole larger and looks large enough to get your hand in there. I think that the tongs idea through a quarter size hole won't work. A long BBQ knife - maybe. The mother will be too big to come through a hole that small so you'd have to do a lot of hacking around in there to break it up. I'd definitely opt to have a larger whole put in.
Let us know how it turns out!
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim,
It was odd. The wine (after almost 3 months in the barrel) smelled like vinegar, pretty good actually, but tasted like off wine. I've tasted off wine before & would never use it for vinegar...so out it went. While draining & cleaning the barrel some hard, crusty mother came out. I did start a fresh barrel using 2 bottles of wine and the liquid mother. No water.
I never removed any mother from the barrel over all those years I made vinegar as I never knew to do so and the vinegar tasted so good I thought I must be doing something right. But now that I know it can be removed (for space at the very least) I'm wondering how to get it out of the barrel?? The barrel top has a bung hole about the size of a quarter and I have a spigot used to draw off. Do you think I could find some skinny tongs to slip in there and fish around for the mother? Or any other ideas? I'm learning all these new interesting things from your site & comments!
Here is a link to the store I buy my mother and other vinegar supplies from:
http://www.oakbarrel.com
Berkeley, CA (510)849-0400
Thanks again, Kim, for all your helpful input and cheers to you too!!
Hi Mary. Thanks for the kind words. I sure wish I had a 3 gallon barrel. One of these days I'm going to have to break down and buy one.
I think the advice you received from the shop was pretty good. I might have moved the "off wine" to a glass or ceramic crock and left it for a few more months. On the other hand - I have not smelled your off wine smell so it is really hard to say. Did it smell like fingernail polish remover?
The original mother I bought back in the early 90's was a clear liquid. The directions said to use water as well but I did not. Maybe you should start out small by following those directions sans water and when that is ready move it to your barrel and add a couple bottles of wine.
Let us know how it turns out. Also, Where did you purchase the mother? A lot of people want to know!!
Cheers,
Kim
Hello Kim! Wonderful, informative site!!
I started my vinegar in 1993 in a 3 gallon oak barrel using a glob of mother from a local wine/beer making shop in Berkeley, CA., a pile of red wine & some water. I drew off vinegar almost every 3 months and continued this venture until last August when it started losing its taste. I let it sit for a few more months w/o adding anything and believe I killed the mother. I called my shop in Berkeley for advice and they told me to empty the barrel (but not to clean it), add two bottles of wine, no water & see what happens in two months. Tasted like off wine. So now they suggested I empty the barrel, clean w/hot water till clear ridding it of any mother and start over. I bought new mother but it's liquid! Something new to me. New instructions too: 1 part culture (it's 8 oz), 1 part water, 3 parts wine. Then feed more wine in 2 months adjusting the ratio between wine & water as taste dictates. I'm more than a little curious about this which brought me to your site. You don't use water and I'm not sure about liquid mother.
My vinegar was delicious. I miss it and so does my family & friends. Feeling a little apprehensive and welcome your thoughts. Sorry for the length of this.
Mary
Hi Leslie - the mother needs to breathe so once it sinks it will suffocate. I have seen some really old sunken mothers that looked pretty nasty and had a off aroma. Also, over time, several layers of caps will accumulate and displace the liquid with a solid mass - see this link for a photo of what I talking about
http://gangofpour.com/diversions...egar/
white.html
why do you say to thropw out the mother if it falls to the bottom
Hi Alex -
Thanks for the kind words - I love experimenting and hope that your vinegar will end up a winner. I think you just need to wait for the mother cap to form. But I'd probably toss the old mother that sunk to the bottom. Once it's submerged like that, it's DOA.
Stay in touch and let us know how it works out.
Sparkle on!
Kim
Kim, you're such a dear to help us all with our questions. Our moldy-mother vinegar did indeed have an unpleasant smell, and since my partner is a chef, he made me toss it. I decided to start a new batch with mother from the moldy batch. I washed a small piece of mother and put in in the wine with a Tablespoon of Braggs. 3 Weeks in it smells heavenly (like vinegar), and I see the mother floating in the bottom but haven't seen anything on top. I may add more Braggs. Thanks again.
(And to reciprocate, if you ever need help building sparkleballs, I'm your girl. www.sparkleball.com)
Hi Alex - the longer I'm involved with homemade vinegar making the more I see that there are different ways of doing it. When I started out I was told to feed the mother every week and that's what I did. It worked. I also have several crocks in which I've not added any more wine for three months after it's been inoculated with mother. It worked.
I've also read that you can scoop out any mold that appears and the vinegar will "right" itself eventually. Others say that once there's a mold that is green or blue, then it's spoiled. You will know that it is spoiled because it will have an off smell. I'd scoop it out and just wait. In the meantime, start another crock but I'd add at least half the bottle of Braggs - maybe even the whole bottle. If you have the cash - try it both ways and see which one works the best. Alternatively - take one bottle of wine and split it between two quart jars. In one jar add a quarter of the Braggs. In the other add the remaining bottle of Braggs.
Lastly - it look like you can get red mother here: http://www.beer-wine.com/categor...=77&
sectionID=4
Good luck!!
Kim,
Part 2: I just read down through all the comments and learned that maybe we needed to have been adding to our crock in this first month of its existence. I thought we were supposed to let it sit undisturbed during that time. So maybe I should scoop out the mold, fish out the mother on the bottom, and keep adding wine until the nice vinegar smell comes back? Thanks!
Dear Kim, One month after we started our vinegar (1 T Bragg's and about 1 bottle of red wine) the mother is huge and sunk to the bottom but there is blue/gray mold on top. I dared to taste it and it doesn't taste like vinegar yet (after a month) but the mother is sunk to the bottom. Shall I scoop out the mold and continue? Add more wine or decrease the mother? Thanks again for your help. You are the only vinegarmonger (vinegar-maker?) online for instant help! Alex
Hi Lisa. I have never seen a vinegar eel but have read a lot about them. According to the vinegar man's website:
http://www.vinegarman.com/
zoo_vi...negar_eel.shtml
"They help make better vinegar by eating the dead vinegar bacteria. Unless you see your salad moving on your plate, they are not a problem."
But I know what you mean about seeing something like that in a food you are going to eat. Once the vinegar is ready and you bring it up to 140 degrees to stop the mother/fermentation, you can strain it and no one will ever know (except you).
I notice the newbies all come back and ask you lots of questions, so I hope you don't mind another from me. How do you control Vinegar Eels? I think that's what I have - it's either that or some other nasty larvae in my proto-vinegar. Any suggestions? I didn't see anything on your pages about them, but I surely have nice colony which wasn't there last I looked. Ewww. I am not sure I want to eat something these things have been floating in.
--Lisa
Hi Lisa - sounds like you are off to a great start! I also had a hard time at first with white but I used a piece of red mother to start a batch of white wine vinegar and over the course of a couple of years I now have a very prolific white factory growing in my kitchen. It keeps growing and growing and growing...
Stay in touch...
Kim
Kim, the party was the 12th, and I started red and white wine vinegar with 8 oz of mother and a full bottle of wine each on the 13th. On the 14th, I rinsed out the containers the mother came in with a bottle of Braggs, and dumped in a liter of hard cider. Can you believe that the cider already has a cellulose cap? I'm shocked - it has only been a week! The red is starting to look oily, which I take as a good sign. The white has done nothing, but I have read you notes on how long it takes and will be patient. But I think the cider has ruined me... I want instant gratification now!
Thanks so much for letting us use your comments area as a forum. I wish GardenWeb had a vinegar forum! They have everything else.
Lisa! You go girl! Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Hi Kim, Just a quick note to say your site inspired me - I do a wine tasting here in Florida every year and hated tossing that wine down the drain. I bought two sun tea jars locally (I'll go to barrels if I keep it up) and two jars of culture off of ebay. The party is next weekend, and the vinegar will be started then. Wish me luck and thanks again for the inspiration.
Vera, I don't know anything about kombucha so I can't help you there. Sorry... However, I've heard that people are getting good results using Bragg's cider vinegar which has the mother in it. Also, have you tried this source for mother? http://www.cellar-homebrew.com/s...ther-p-
910.html
Thanks for your response, Kim. I am having a hard time getting mother on-line. I've tried growing my own, but I keep ending up with mold. I do grow a kombucha culture, which is doing splendidly, and seems very similar to a vinegar mother. Do you know, perhaps, if they are interchangable...?
Thanks for the forum!!
Vera
Hi Giovanni:
The recipe sounds intriguing! I love herbed vinegar especially on baked potatoes with lots of butter and salt and pepper. I have never had a mother grow in vinegar after I've brought it to a boil. When I make herbed vinegar, I dip the sprigs in boiling water then transfer to the hot vinegar to steep for about a week. I then take out the herbs as they can harbor nasty organisms over time. I've seen the tops of herbs still vinegar turn moldy. :-(
Cheers,
Kim
Hi veramadera:
I do not sell the mother from my crocks and have stopped giving it away except for a few very rare occasions for people who live in the Detroit area. You may purchase mother - just do a search and a few sites will pop up that sell it. Best of luck...
Cheers,
Kim
I want my mother!!!! I mean, I want some mother. Kim, how to contact you to order some vinegar mother? Thanks!!!
I have had two experiences but not actually tried the vinegar:
1. I crushed white grapes with my daughters, filtered and sat the juice in a glass jug with a paper towl sitting over the top. Wetting the towl made it take the shape of the top and dry hard to prevent bugs getting in. It seemed to turn directly into vinegar. Skum, mother, mother sank, new mother. 3 months on and it's still there in the kitchen waiting for me to pick up courage and try it. It smells of vinegar!
2. Quite curious, noticed it today but to describe I need to take a step back: there's a great recipe for stuffed Chilli peppers (round tomato types). The recipe involves cleaning them out and then boiling them for a few minutes in equal parts of wine and vinegar + a spoonfull of sugar.
I set the very spicy liquid and set it aside in a glass jug with a loose top (great for throwing onto a sausage!) Having not used it in a while I cleaned the jug out today and found mother had formed. Touched the mother and tasted my finger: vinegary and very spicy. Perhaps a new way for making spiced up vinegar. How about boiling rosemary or other spices before making the vinegar: the spice should come through in the final vinegar.|
Any comments most welcome!!!
PS I'm in Rome, Italy and I'm sure the mother's in the air, ready to take over any wine you leave standing for a month or so.
Hi Allison: your offer is very kind and perhaps people here who need some mother will take you up on it. If it was my mother and you wanted to spread it around via US mail, I'd cut it into quarter pound chunks and send it in a Ziploc bag. Be sure to include some liquid - maybe a couple tablespoons or so. I've had very good success using that method. If you are anti Ziploc, you could send the chunk and liquid in a half pint glass jar. Be sure to use some Saran wrap on top of the lid and screw cap before you ship it to someone.
I'm curious, when you say that it's balsamic, was this vinegar made in the traditional way - the only way, really, for balsamic? http://www.acetaiadigiorgio.it/
e...inegar_make.htm
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I have a HUGE mother in the bottom of a 5 gallon plastic jug of balsamic vinegar that we just finished. I would guess it is about 5-7 pounds in weight. I would love to make some balsamic vinegar but wasn't sure if I could use this. It has been sitting in vinegar for about 2 years. Also I would be happy to give some away as long as I knew how. Thanks for all of the info you have put together, it is So helpful. Allison
Thanks, Kim! I'm taking your/Bill's steps and printing them up for my boyfriend's Christmas gift: mother, crock, and wine. Happy holidays! Alex
Alex, thank you for the clarification. I have corrected Mr. Hamilton's initial. The article appeared on April 14th, 1991. I have a copy of it. I'll try to post a ten-point step when I get time but if you take the time to read through the pages and these comments, I think you'll see the steps necessary to make vinegar. There are really 4 steps. Buy some mother or get some from a friend, dump it in a crock or jar, pour in a bottle of wine and cover with a cloth, wait three-four months. Alternatively, pour wine in a crock and cover with a cloth, wait 6 months to a year. Even Mr. Hamilton's article outlines these steps: Buy a barrel, pour in 8 ounces of mother, add 4 bottles of wine, wait. He had vinegar in two months. It's on page two of his article. My experience has been that it takes a little longer than two months.
Cheers,
Kim
Kim, I never intended to be rude. Just thought you'd want to be accurate when you cite a source. I had trouble locating Bill's article on vinegar making in the TIMES so I asked him for it. He sent it to me in an email, but without the date. And all I suggested is that someone (you?) would do us all a huge favor if they posted simple steps to starting a vinegar batch. Please forgive me if I sounded rude. It was never intended. I enjoyed your site and only meant to respond and help. I will be glad to email you Bill's vinegar article if you send me your email address or tell me how. Sincerely, Alex Finlayson
Whoa, Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous: I admit that I've worked a long day today and can't find which NY Times article you reference here. Since this page has been up for 9 years please be so kind as to cite the actual URL to which you refer.
Other than that, don't be so rude next time. You might get a better response.
The NYTimes author you cite is my friend William L. Hamilton (not A.) which is necessary if a reader cares to google his article. (A link would be nice.) Bill's article is the only one I've read that contains a set of orderly, implied steps. I sure wish one of you would just list 1-10 the steps to making vinegar and make it as easy to do as you say it is! 1. Start with a container. It should be. . .
Hi Kim,
Thank you for your kind offer - and actually, I will be in the Detroit area this coming week. Could you email me with how we can arrange for this? Whatever day/time is best for you....Thanks so much!
I'm glad you like my site - can't wait to do a post on getting some mother!
-Christine
Christine, I've gone on record to say that I no longer give away my mother due to a variety of reasons, However, since you are local and if you are ever in the Detroit area, send me a note and I'll give you some.
Cheers,
Kim
P.S. Nice web site you have!!!!
Hi,
Wow. So glad to have found your site - it's full of useful info on making vinegar. I live in Ann Arbor and was wondering if I could get some mother from you? Thank you for any help.
Kindly,
Christine
Hi Rick. I use any wine that's available and the fact that all of these wines have sulfites has no bearing on the end result of making a quality vinegar. If you are worried about it you might opt for a non sulfite wine. Any wine store would carry them.
Hi kim,
Me again. I started my crock with homemade wine. The mother has formed and everythings great. Can I add bought wine to the crock? If so, is there a particular brand that's better than another? Someone at a wine shop told me that bought wine has a lot of preservatives and will not turn to vinegar? Is this true. What type of wine do you use that turns nicely to vinegar?
Ciao Rick
Kim, Thanks for your advice. After seeing that picture, I think I'll remove the slabs from time to time if I want to have more space for vinegar!! Bye for now.
Rick, I can only describe what happens to my crocks. I have seen old mother at the bottom of a crock look shrunken and black around the edges and it can have a slight off odor. I have one crock that's about 2 years old that's gives a beautiful vinegar with very little slabs of mother. My oldest crock is 16 years old and if I didn't take out the sunken mother from time-to-time it would take up space and eventually you would have a giant slab with little liquid.
See http://gangofpour.com/diversions...egar/
white.html
as an example.
If you want to leave it in then by all mean, do so.
Hi Kim,
To answer your question - I'm not taking out any vinegar just yet, I just want to increase my volume. What happens if we don't fish out the fallen mother? I know this fellow that's been adding wine to his crock and taking out vinegar for years and years and has never removed any mother from his crock - is that possible? I tasted his vinegar and it's amazing!
Rick, your crock is three months old, right? Are you taking any vinegar out or just pouring more wine in to increase the volume? You could probably add a bottle with no harmful effects. Let it sit for a couple of months and taste it. The wine would go on top of the mother which will suffocate it and it will fall to the bottom of the crock. It will be replaced by a new mother. Eventually you will want to remove the fallen mother and throw it out but first, let it drain really well and put the liquid back in the crock or use it to start another crock.
Hi Kim,
I think I finally established my crock with a volume of about gallon. The mother has formed on top and it smells and tastes like vinegar. What would be the most wine I could add in one shot and how long would it take to transform into vinegar? Secondly, how do I add it? Do I just pour it directly on top of the floating mother? Please help!
Rick
Hi Oliver. Thanks for the kind words. I've heard that people are having success with the Bragg vinegar and I think that over the course of a year, you should have some very nice chardonnay vinegar.
Cheers,
Kim
Kim, great sight. I've been delighted to learn so much about vinegar making. I decided to make my own due to the extreme lack of kosher vinegar around. But I found a kosher apple cider vinegar with a mother under the brand Bragg at the co-op. Which leads me to my question.
If I start with a bottle of Bragg cider vinegar with the mother in it (kind of a big one, the mother that is) and feed it the same type of chardonnay exclusively, will it become less apple-like?
Hi Marvin. I honestly don't know how to answer your questions. Why don't you try introducing some air by stirring it or using a small aquarium pump. Maybe put it in top of a heating pad set on the lowest setting. Or just leave it alone and wait.
Kim
I have added a whole bottle in the past and it generally forms a new cap quickly. Its been over a month and still no new cap. It still smells vinegary (if that's a word) so it seems like its working, but its is still a bid odd. what do you think? how do I know if its not working? I heard it should smell like varnish or something like that. You think I should get some good mother and introduce it again?
Marvin, do you normally empty an entire bottle of wine into the crock and it still responds fairly quickly with a new cap? I think that maybe you added too much and it's just taking extra time to process. I have 16 crocks going and each act a little differently. Some work really fast and some work slower when I add new wine. It's really hard to evaluate over the Internet.
Cheers,
Kim
Kim, why would you think that the mother would slow down on her converstion process? Usually, a new cap forms fairly quickly. This time its been weeks and no new cap, although it still smells like she is working (crock still smells like vinegar). I'll wait to see if another one forms, but don't you think that is strange?
thanks, I was worried about all of my hard work. The crock is probably 2-3 gallons, and it is half full.
Hi Marvin. I'm sure it'll be fine. Sometimes it just takes several weeks for a new cap to form. You may have added too much wine. How big is your crock? And yes, when you add that much liquid on top of the mother, it will suffocate and usually sink to the bottom but if you have a healthy crock it will grow back. Just leave it alone and check back in a couple of months.
Kim, did my mother die for some reason? everything was going well, that nice funny vinegar smell was going. Mother cap was formed for a while, and then I added a full bottle on top of the mother cap before a 10 day vacation (when we wouldn't have the a/c on in the house and therefore great vinegar conditions). I checked when I came back and the new wine that I poured did not have a mother cap formed yet. Then I fished out some of the old mother caps and discarded, but left some older ones in. Its been a week since I fished out the old caps, and at least 3 weeks since I added that new wine. Did I kill the mother somehow? Did the new wine suffocate the mother since I poured it directly on top of the old one, which did not sink to the bottom? I really hope that's not the case, this batch has been brewing for almost 2 years. How do I know if the mama is still OK?
thanks
Marvin
Kevin, I have not seen a site that breaks it down step-by-step but have you visited
http://www.vinegar.at/en/index.p...-
Frontpage.html
This site has some useful information.
Hi Kim,
I am new to the vinegar making scene, but I am extremely eager to learn. Thus far I have read almost all there is to read on the internet about the subject. Do you know of any technical manuals or websites which might break the process down in a step-by-step fashion. I live on an orchard/vineyard and am interested in both regular and balsamic vinegar making techniques.
Thanks, Kevin
Hi Rick. It's really hard to diagnose this issue without seeing and smelling. I have read accounts where people have reported mold growing on top of the liquid and they just scraped it off with no ill effect. I've also read that vinegars can go bad but without smelling and seeing I don't know what to tell you other than - if it smells like nail polish remover and not vinegar, just leave it alone for a few more months. If it really smells rotten, I'd probably dump it and start over.
Good luck.
Hi Kim,
I recently began trying to make my own "Mother". I took a large jar and used a half gallon of Homemade red wine. I covered the jar with a cheesecloth and stored it in a dark place at room temperture. There is a mould-like substance that has formed on top and sometimes partilces drop to the bottom. The quantity in the jar has also reduced by almost half.
There is a slight odor but it doesn't smell like vinegar. Am I on the right track? Is the Mother supposed to smell like vinegar? What is the time frame usually? Should I add wine?
Please help.
Rick
Jen, this place might have some in stock
http://www.brewbeer.cc/beer-
maki...MainCategory=91
Good luck!
Kim
I've been searching for a mother but I can't seem to find one. Everything is sold out. Do you know of a good place to buy one? Time is of the essence as I've recently come into a large supply of freshly made wine (2006 vintage). I'm eager to say the least.
Thanks for the wonderful website.
Jen Welty
Hi Marlene:
Since you've already used the cherry to start a new batch which you can use to make more vinegar, there is no need to do anything to the cherry unless you want to keep it going. You could just wait until you think it's finished and bottle it or from time-to-time, add more grape wine or cherry wine to it. You should be able to keep the fruit flavor of the cherry if you continue to use a good cherry wine as the feeder. Or you could probably just add pure juice but I don't have any experience doing that.
I have three fruit vinegars this summer which I think are outstanding. Raspberry, cherry and apricot - all made from fruit wines. I diluted the intense apricot flavors by merging it with a jar of regular white wine vinegar and I won't make that mistake again. Right now, my raspberry and cherry have really intense fruit forward flavors. One more month and they get bottled! I'll probably save a half cup or so and start over with more fruit wine. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Kim:
Thanks for posting your information.
I have recently begun experimenting with home vinegars and am at the point of needing more info... what a relief to discover your forum.
I have a small batch of cherry vinegar that I started from crushed fruit and now have a mother growing. I have used part of that to start a red vinegar. My question is how to feed the cherry mother? Should I supply more fresh fruit or cherry juice? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Hi Marvin:
...how often do you fish out the dead mother layers? Is it OK to just let them accumulate in the bottom of the crock.
I don't let them accumulate over 6-9 months or so because they will start to decay. After all, once the mother sinks, it'll die.
Another question, if you want to give some mother to a friend so they can start their own vinegar, do you have to just give them some liquid, like I got when I started, or should I give them some of the geletan stuff that forms.
You may give either. I usually give a glob of the fresh mother along with a cup or so of the liquid.
Lastly, so you think its better to just draw off vinegar direct from the crock when you need it, of is it better to take out a numch when its ready, cook it, and put it in bottles for use like the store bought stuff.
Whatever way works best for you is the best way to go. Personally, I bottle mine but I don't have a problem with taking some straight from the crock.
Cheers, Kim
Hi Kim, how often do you fish out the dead mother layers? Is it OK to just let them accumulate in the bottom of the crock.
Another question, if you want to give some mother to a friend so they can start their own vinegar, do you have to just give them some liquid, like I got when I started, or should I give them some of the geletan stuff that forms.
Lastly, so you think its better to just draw off vinegar direct from the crock when you need it, of is it better to take out a numch when its ready, cook it, and put it in bottles for use like the store bought stuff.
Hope all is well and thanks.
Marvin
Here's a great article by Peter Hertzmann on making vinegar -
http://www.hertzmann.com/article.../2007/vinaigre/
Hi Marvin:
How often do you have to feed the concotion if you have a good base started. Do I have to add a glass of wine each week, or can it be every few weeks.
In my jug that's over 15 years old, I add wine at least once a month. I have added a full bottle if it gets low and as little as a glass when I have one to add. In my newer jugs, I don't add anything for 2-3 months. I wait until I see that there's a film which will eventually turn into the slimey cap. Then I add a glass at a time to keep up with the evaporation. If I take most of the vinegar out to process, I replace it with an equivalent amount of wine.
Will the mother die if it does not get new wine every few weeks? Or do you think its better to add a full bottle and let it be for a few months, as she eats through that bottle. Thanks
The mother will not die. As you add wine on top of the mother, it will suffocate and fall to the bottom but then will create a new mother cap within weeks. My white jar makes a new mother cap in as little as three days. HOWEVER, if you just let the mother sit there and evaporate away, it will eventually turn into one giant slab with no liquid, then it'll die. I can't tell you how many times I've given mother to my friends who forget about their jars then remember to check a year later and it's DOA.
Hi Kim
How often do you have to feed the concotion if you have a good base started. Do I have to add a glass of wine each week, or can it be every few weeks. Will the mother die if it does not get new wine every few weeks? Or do you think its bettert o add a full bottle and let it be for a few months, as she eats through that bottle. Thanks
Marvin
THANK YOU! I have not been very patient... the wine jug and vinegar crock are on the kitchen counter and every day I check the airlock on the wine and then look at the idle vinegar (with great expectations!).
Thanks for the help!
Dear Mn Lost Boy.
Hmmm. There would not be any "action" in a jar of vinegar as there is no fermentation like you see in the production of wine. Everything happens quietly in the background
What you will see eventually is a slick of something that may look oily or scummy. It'll eventually turn into a solid mass. Just leave it along, keep it warm and you should see progress within 2 months. Probably more. Be patient...
Also, I don't know if the two cultures will clash but you probably should have used just one. I would have gone for the commercial mother and used the Bragg only if no commercial mother is available. On the other hand, it just might work! That's what experimenting is all about.
I have another question...
We are just starting out here and things are not all going well.
We making wine out of a gallon of cider and that seems perfect... the air lock has been bubbling strong for 10 days. When we started though I took an old bottle of wine and dumped it in a half gallon jar. Added a 1/2 cup of both store bought "mother" and 1/2 cup of Braggs vinegar. I capped it with a linen napkin held in place with a rubber band... 10 days later there is absolutly no action in the jar.
I didn't expect this? What happened?
Or... should I be more patient? I know you said to wait up to 2 months but I thought that was when ytou were trying to get a wild mother going.... I had expected to be able to add my gallon of wine to the new mother when it's done???? Could both of my samples been dead?
Dear Kim, Thanks for the honest feedback. I'll have to play this one by ear and do some more research.
To Ron - if you read my post just before yours you will see that I inherited a barrel of vinegar. My method for removal of vinegar is to siphon it off. If the barrel has significant sludge from years of accumulation like mine, then you need to start your siphon several inches off the bottom so you don't get all the sludge - or, of course, you can clean out the sludge. Our barrel lies on its side, with the large bung hole on top closed with a large cork that has gauze around it allowing it to sit loosely in the hole - this provides air. I pour in the wine leftovers and wait a while before removing usable vinegar - truly amazing stuff. Good luck.
Nick
Hi Ron.
Glad you found us!! I don't prefer a crock, it's just that I'm too cheap to spend the money on a barrel. Maybe I'll request one from Santa one of these days.
If the barrel have a wooden spigot, just leave it in and never turn it on. Alternatively, you could plug it with a wooden bung.
Let us know what you end up doing...
Cheers,
Kim
Kim,
Wow finally ! It was years ago (60's) when my Mom started a vinegar barrel and I first learned the term "mother." All I knew was I needed mother to get the vinegar started properly. This memory of my Mom and the great flavor of her vinegar has remained with me for the last 35 years.
Having opened a few hundred bottles of quality red wine over those years, I have regretted that I had no knowlege on turning those fine leftovers into a quality vinegar.
So bless you and the internet for providing us the answers to my quest. I am ready to begin.. except for purchasing the container.
Mom used a wooden barrel, so I always thought that was the way to go, however I saw the crock on your website as well. If I use a barrel you mention not using the spigot which makes sense. Do you just plug lower hole with a bung or cork? Or do you prefer the crock?
And like Doug from California, I'd love to piggyback on his mother request -- I'm in California too.
Well, now back to your site for more reading. This is exciting as I look forward to some great vinagrette and fond memories of Mom.
Gratefully,
Dear Nick. Yikes! What a great gift but I'm afraid to offer advice as I do not make vinegar in barrel or have my vinegar exposed to extreme temp fluctuations. I've read that vinegar makers in France have barrels up in attics or barns exposed to extreme temps and it works for them but I'm really not qualified to give you a definitive answer. As for the sludge, I don't think cleaning it out is going to harm the vinegar. It would actually give you more room for more liquid and it'll eventually get all sludgy again anyway. Good luck!
Hi Roger. Glad to hear things are working well for you. I don't track ph, acid levels, etc. so I am of no help there. I recall reading a lot about it in my various articles I've collected over the years. When I get a moment I'll pull them out and see if I can find an answer or hopefully someone here can answer your question.
Cheers,
Kim
Kim ,thus far your advice and the info gleaned from this column has been invaluable. What ph is one aiming at? Or is it just a matter of taste. The mother has taken a dive to the bottom presumably indicating completed wine conversion.My white wine became infected so I turfed the whole barrel's contents out, refilled with 60 litres of white wine, dropped in a chunk of red wine mother; now I have wonderful white vinegar but am not sure if it is ready to bottle. Being the same organism the mothers are interchangeable but too much red mother may tint the white vinegar
Thanks and kind regards, Roger(Port Elizabeth South Africa)
New to this site - I'd like to ask a question. Inherited a full size oak wine barrel which has an unknown number of gallons of vinegar in it. The mother was established decades ago and the familyhas kept it going simply by adding leftover wine. The vinegar is very strong but beats anything commercial. I will need to move the barrel to a new location from its current 'wine cellar-like' location. If I were to keep it in an unheated garage would it withstand cold New York winters - even if it went dormant for the winter that would be fine. I assume it would survive summers even if temps hit high 90s on occassion. Also, since this is an old oak barrel I have no idea what it looks like in there, but there is lots of sludge which has to be avoided when siphoning off the vinegar. Do you recommend emptying the barrel, cleaning it out and re-establishing the mother in a cleaned out barrel? I'd hate to ruin this family treasure.
THanks, and thanks for all the info I have already gotten from this site,
Nick
Dear MN Lost Boy - I really don't know as I've never tried it but if I had some cider that I didn't want to drink, I'd want to try and make vinegar too. However, I would not pour it into my crock. Rather, I'd take out some of the vinegar and start a new jar with just the cider using your vinegar as the inoculate. Alternatively, buy some Bragg cider vinegar which has the mother in it and pour a bottle into your cider.
Let us know how it works out.
Cheers,
Kim
I've seen some articles on making vinegar direct from juice....
What would happen if I added Apple Cider to my vinegar crock?
Seth, I'd love to send you some and if you lived here in the Detroit area I'd be glad to share but based on advice I received, I no longer send out mother. Too many variables in getting sued if something went wrong, etc. Pour a bottle of wine into a quart jar and cover with a clothe and let it sit in a warm spot for several months. It'll make its own mother eventually.
Cheers,
Kim
I was interested in starting some Vinegar but I don't know where to get good mother. I don't trust getting it off any old website, but I trust you guys. If I gave a FedEx number could someone send me some good mother to start either red or white or both vinegars? Please let me know. Thanks.
Hi Marvin. Yes, I used a bit of red. It is really going well. I have a Champagne vinegar that grows a mother cap within three days after I remove the old one. I tried making white from store bought mother and it never took. Maybe I didn't wait long enough as white does take much longer than red. I heard that buying mother of vinegar right now is pretty futile because the manufacturer has not been satisfied with its strength. So, I really don't know where you can get some. Just try a bit of red to get it started. I think you'll be pleased.
============
Marvin Wrote: I did see the white wine pictures. Did you use a part of red mother to get it going? How is that turning out? Would you buy some white mother if you were me?
I did see the white wine pictures. Did you use a part of red mother to get it going? How is that turning out? Would you buy some white mother if you were me?
My red wine vinegar is very dark and can be cloudy based on how well I filtered it. If i take the time to rack it off from the top of the crock and then let it settle before I bottle it, it can be clearer. My white wine is definitely clear. Did you see the new pics I posted? Also, I used to bring mine to a boil to ensure that the mother culture would not grow again but I've since learned that all you need to do is bring it to 170 degrees and hold it for 10 minutes to ensure pasteurization.
Cheers,
Kim
vendage time, finally harvested a few bottles of vinegar after 6 months, very good, very strong, so different from the store stuff. Does your completed product essentially look like red wine, dark, rather than the clear pink stuff at the store? Is that the way it is supposed to be. I recall one of your posters saying that theirs was clear, mine is definitely not clear. Also do you boil it when you process it?
I may experiment with white now!. Thanks
Marvin
Hi Linda. I have not had muck luck making fresh juice vinegar as it always turns moldy during the process. However, here's a link to Countryside Magazine that has a recipe for raspberry vinegar
http://www.countrysidemag.com/is...sues/
4_1999.htm
Please do let us know how it turns out.
Cheers,
Kim
I would like to make vinegar from my raspberry juice. Your instructions are for vinegars made from wines. What do I do if I start with fresh juice? I have had some sent from Japan that was great, but it was SALTY! Could the salt have been added to stop the action of the mother??
Linda
Marvin: Sure, go ahead and add more almost to the top. You'll be fine. I've added as much as two whole bottles to a half gallon of vinegar without harming it but then, my crock is over 15 years old now and I don't know if age has anything to do with that.
Please see the new pictures I uploaded which show some white wine I started by adding about a cup or so of red wine vinegar with active mother. It is light and delicious tasting although it's certainly pink. White wine will oxidize over time and you'll end up with white wine vinegar that's yellowish but I don't have a problem with that.
http://gangofpour.com/diversions...egar/
white.html
Keep up the good work!
Hi Kim, the vinegar is going great. Starting to draw on it when I need to use some. My it is so much stronger than the commercial stuff isn't it.
I was wondering, now that I have a good few quarts of the stuff, If I bottle about 1/2 of it to use, can I then put a lot of new wine into the remaining vinegar and just let it do its magic without constantly adding a glass or two of new wine every few weeks. Can I kill the mother with too much additional wine (i.e add 3 new parts for the 1 existing part)?
This batch came out so good, I was thinking about starting some white wine vinegar now.
Thanks for the help and have a good new year.
Hey Marvin! Happy New Year to you too. How's your vinegar coming along?
Kim
happy new year all you vinegar hounds.
Greetings Tony!
Wow, how nice to be able to get your hands on some excellent wine stock for your vinegar.
I have not had many grape designated vinegars but the ones I've had could not be identified by its varietal. I just don't remember ever saying, 'that's a Zinfandel vinegar.'
Just today I used some late harvest Riesling in some shallots I was caramelizing for tonight's Thanksgiving dinner and while the vinegar was outstanding, you wouldn't say that it was a Riesling.
That being said, there's a lot of successful marketing around high-end grape designated vinegars so have fun!
I am a wine importer into the UK - mainly quality French wine. I often pour away dozens of bottles of e.g top quality Bordeaux , Burgundy etc. When I was judging a wine competition in Sydney Australia in Oct. a frenchman gave me some of his mother to start me of as a vinegar-maker. The itention is to make eg Gevrey Chambertin, St.Emilion, Chateauneuf vinegar etc.
Should I be able to get the varietal/regional character to show or will they all taste similar because I have used the same mother?
Hi Marvin! Thanks for the update. Sounds like you are doing everything right but you might be adding too much wine too soon. I'd leave it alone for another 2 months and see if that brings up the strength of the vinegar. Also, when you add a liquid on top of the mother it sometimes blocks off its oxygen and it'll sink to the bottom. Sometimes it just makes another layer on top of the old one and, over time, it can get really thick. You might want to remove your old sunken mothers in a few months.
I think my stuff is starting to taste like vinegar, till really strong, but seems to be getting there. So exciting. Question, so long as the mother is floating on top, don't bother it? Only worry when it sinks to the bottom? Whenever I add a glass or 2 of extra red wine, it goes on top of mother, but seems to make its way down over the course of a week. Deos it seem like I am doing it correctly? I have probably added a total of 2-3 bottles of wine, one to two cups at a time over the courese of the last three months.
Thanks for all the help Kim.
This product looks interesting:
http://www.bragg.com/products/
ap...dervinegar.html
Hi Roger.
Yes, sunken mother will eventually die because it's been cut off from its oxygen source. I just cleaned out my big crock the other day and I should have taken pics of what I would call a dead mother vs a live one. The dead one was shrunken and had very thin edges which looked tinged with a black color. However, I also had several sunken slabs that were still youthful looking. I threw all of them out and already have a nice healthy slab starting to grow on top. It probably helps that my crock is very close to the forced air heat duct in the kitchen. If I were you, I'd throw out the sunken mother and give the vinegar a nice dose of fresh wine. Stir it up and give it plenty of oxygen and wait for it to revive itself.
Cheers!
Kim
Dear Kim, My very old mother was killed with insectecide. Eventually had to import one from you guys. Now someone has come to light with a mother which(who) looks red and fleshy but hasn't been fed for two years.It was not floating I am told. Do mothers die in vinegar? Can I go ahead? Somewhere I have read that it should be discarded if it sinks. I use 100 litre barrels so don't want to hurt the American cousins.Thanks!
Kevin, I add oak or cherry chips from time-to-time to my racked vinegar. But I don't know what commercial suppliers do. Based on my understanding of the commercial vinegar making process I would assume that it's added after the vinegar has been racked as well.
If you want to use oak chips, cubes, or balls in your vinegar, when do you add them. Are they added to the vat with the mother or after it is racked off ?
Hi Marvin. Yes, I picked up that magazine in the airport this week coming back from vacation. Good read! Thanks for the link. I really like Paula Wolfert's style and have several of her cookbooks.
When I first started out with my vinegar, I did pretty much what she did sans the water. I've also done it with no additional wine over a course of a couple of months. It works both ways.
Cheers,
Kim
Thought you might be interested in this article. It appears in this months Food and Wine, which just came in the mail.
http://foodandwine.com/articles/...omemade-
vinegar
They have a recipe as to how to start which is a little different than all that I have read (she says to add more wine about a week to two weeks after you start). If you want the full article, I can copy and mail it to you. She makes a great point (as you do), that homemade is just so much better than store bought.
Thanks
Marvin
Marvin, just draw off what you need and be sure to always leave some vinegar so that you'll have the "starter" to keep a batch going. Think of it like sourdough starter. I've had my vinegar going for 15 years.
I also forgot to answer your question re: crock size. Mine is full and it's at least 2 gallons. I also have two other gallon jars going with a red and a white.
Cheers,
Kim
Kim, once the vinegar is going, can you just draw it off as you want to use it? or is it necessary to always do it in batches, then draw it all off and start again? I get the sense that you add wine when you have it and draw off what you want when you want to use it, or is that incorrect?
Thanks
Marvin
Hi Marvin.
I'd wait to add more wine to your brew. The longer I've been doing this the more times I've had the opportunity to experiment with batches. I've had gallon jugs going for 3 months before I've added any new wine and they've turned out just fine. Since yours is so small, maybe add a half cup in a month or so. You might want to build up to a larger amount before you start to draw off vinegar. For example, once the 2 cups tastes and smells like vinegar, dump it into a quart jar and fill it with new wine and wait a month or two more. Add that to a half gallon jar and add more and so on. The vinegar is ready when it tastes and smells like vinegar.
Good luck!
Kim, I started making vinegar. Bought a little jar of mother, added wine and water per the directions, and I have a layer of mother starting to develop on top (wow that is a strong smell while it is fermenting). It has been about 3 weeks since I started the process. The question I have for you is can I add additional wine to the mixture yet? So far I have only a tiny amount, at most 2 cups of liquid. Or should I wait until the mother gets more established before adding a glass every now and then. Also, when do you know that you can start to take some liquid out of the mix?
Thanks for the help. How full is your jar in the picture? It must have at least 1/2 gallon capacity.
Jose, I'll send you an email.
Hi Ruth. I've used cherry wood chips in some of my vinegars. I does seem to mellow it out a bit.
I saw you have mother of vinegar. Can you share some? I am in desperate need of one. I needed for a remedy. I had one but it died. Please let me know.
Our local wine/beer-making shop in Kansas has bottles of mother for red wine. They also had white wine and cider. Doubt they ship, but surely there are wine making supply shops elsewhere.
Also, noticed that the wine supplies included bags of cubed oak, to add oak flavor without having to spring for a barrel.
Marvin, I've always wonder that too. I recall a friend telling that she made the hole on top of the barrel a little bit bigger than her fist so that she could get a ladle down in there as well as a long fork in order to remove the mother that falls to the bottom. Sounds logical to me! Good luck!
Hey Kim, one question about the small wine barrel's. They are expensive, but look so nice, and appropriate sine I too love the vino (but that is another story). The thing that I cannot figure out about the small wine barrel is how do you fish out the mother that falls to the bottom of the barrel? I know this may not be your area of expertise, but any help will help. I got my mother today and am going to start this w/e. I cannot wait.
Thanks Marvin!
I don't have a vinegar barrel because they are just darned expensive but you can get small barrels - 1-5 gallon barrels made for vineagr use. Yes, a wine barrel would work but that seems like overkill for you since you are only taking a pint at a time.
My stoneware crock works just fine for me. I ladle out about 4 cups at a time when I'm ready to process vinegar. I replace it with the same amount of wine as soon as possible but you don't really have to do that.
Good luck and have fun!
This site is awesome. Thanks for all the information. Advice on the type of container to use. I will likely just use a pint of vinegar at a time. Would you suggest getting a barrel (and then will any old wine barrel thing work), or something like the stoneware crock you seem to use. Once you get going, do you just draw off what you need, or do you empty the whole thing and seal them up and start again? Thanks
Hi Doug, thanks for your comments re: apple juice.
While I am not a scientist, Google told me that the boiling point of acetic acid is 118.1 °C (391.2 K).
Cheers,
Kim
I have made herbal vinegar for several years but could not find the answer to two questions. (1) What is the acetic acid reading from 11% wine? I bought an acid tester but it had color comparison, about 4% variation. (2) What is the boiling point of acetic acid? Seems like some distraction always occurs when I'm pasteurizing.
Perhaps one of your vinegar admirers has a scientific background,
Suggestions: start off with a pint of apple juice in a shallow container, you'll have cider vinegar and mother within a couple of weeks. Or pump air into your wine with a small aquarium pump. Happy vinegar making, Doug
Hi Frank:
A Google search turned up these two places where you may purchase red, white, malt or cider mother.
http://www.leeners.com/vinegar.html
http://www.homebrewhq.com/Produc...?
CategoryID=161
Alternatively, you could make it from scratch. Tricia Reese from new Zealand posted her method which you can read about below.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
Hi Kim,
after my local Italian food shop stopped carrying my favorite red wine vinegar I have been on a mission to start making my own red wine vinegar. I have many memories of my Italian grandfather and father making their own wine when I was a boy. Now its my turn to continue the tradition I guess. Can you help me with obtaining some mother?
Tricia, thanks for sharing your process of making vinegar from grapes. I would love to try this out some time and will see if I can't get some grapes come harvest time here in Michigan.
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim, Thanks for your wonderful site on vinegar making, I have made my first lot of vinegar from grapes out of our garden, it is a beautiful dark red colour & tastes superb, my chef friend cant believe the end product is so good.
MY RED WINE VINEGAR RECIPE.
1.4.06
Put down 13 & half kg’s grapes ……. 6 litres water.
Covered the bucket with muslin.
Stirred approx every second day.
17.4.06 (16 days on the skins)
Strained the skins off the vinegar.
Added a bit of the racked off cherry wine (approx cup).
Put back into cylinder cupboard.
Sometime later ? a mother appeared on top of the bucket I stirred it in & shouldn’t have, however it grew another Mother,I them never touched it again until.
30. 5.06. (6 weeks & 2 days)
Strained through muslin & boiled for 10 mins let cool then bottled.Left it 2 months to mature.
Hi Stephanie.
You can't make vinegar in 3 three weeks. Even with a mother it may take up to three months or longer.
As for sulfites, I don't recall ever using a non-sulfited wine so I would not worry about it too much.
Cheers,
Kim
Dear Kim,
Thank you. I have been "brewing" some wine for 3 weeks now and wondered why nothing was happening. After looking at your website, I examined a bottle of the stuff. Sulfites. Oops, frustrating. I think I will try starting with borrowed mother, or as we say in D-Town, mutha. I guess I will graduate to white mother when I get this red vinegar down pat.
Sincerely, Stephanie
Hi Stephanie. Thanks for the kind words. I'll send you an email re: the mother. I only have red - no white. And yes, I would use a white mother for champagne.
Cheers,
Kim
Hi-Great website. My husband and I love wine! We also live in Metro Da Twah! Wyandotte! Is it possible to get some red mutha from you? Do you have any white mutha? I tried (and completly consumed) a champagne vinegar a couple of weeks ago. Wow, was that ever delicious! Would one start champagne vinegar from a white mutha? I could drive to you or meet you for mutha(s).
thanks for the website!
Stephanie
Hi Carla,
I really need to update my page and have it read that it was over 16 years ago that I started making vinegar. The brain is a little foggy after all these years but I think it was a place called Cuomos Hardware, or something like that. It was in East Detroit on Gratiot, I think. East Detroit is now Eastpointe, right?
Anyway, hope this is helpful.
Cheers,
Kim
I live in metro Detroit and was wondering what is the name of the hardware store that you purchased the mother from?
Hi Rochelle:
I don't know the definative answer to this question because I'm not a winemaker. However, I did pose this question to a winemaker out in California a few years ago. He made vinegar too and had a full barrel of it. He said that he kept it in a different building because of the danger of airborne infection. So maybe your duct tape won't be enough... 
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I just can't seem to find the answer to my question: how far away from my brewing wine do I have to keep my brewing vinegar? Is la mere an airborn bacteria? Will two separate rooms do it... or do I need to duct tape the door to the vinegar room closed to protect her finicky cousins?
-Rochelle
Dear Jim:
Very cool! Congratulations. Great idea about getting some unprocessed vinegar from a health food store. One time, I found a white wine vinegar from a Cost Plus World market that had mother growing in it so they are out there. Don't forget to feed your vinegar every so often.
Cheers,
Kim
I did it! I just poured off my first bottle of red wine vinegar. I left quite a bit in the big glass beaker I'm using to ferment it, which is actually a flower vase I bought at the florist shop around the corner.
To start I dumped in a pint of unfiltered, totally unprocessed red wine vinegar from the health food store and added a couple of cups of merlot. I covered the top with a piece of cotton from an old T shirt and used a rubber band to secure it. Every few days I added a little more and a slightly cloudy, gooey film slowly developed on top. It's been maybe 6 or 7 weeks or so. This vinegar is so good I can't believe it! It's a deep, clear red. I just poured it through a coffee filter into a recycled vinegar bottle. I can't wait to use it in a simple dressing of olive oil, dab of achovy paste and some coarse ground pepper.
Hi David.
You can order mother over the Internet. Just do a Google search. Here's one place that has it, although I think their price is a little high.
http://www.leeners.com/vinegar.html
Best of luck.
Kim
Please help-I have a bunch of wine I opened up and they were not any good to drink-older wines that just went flat.I need a mother- can you help? Or, where do I buy something like a mother? PLease help
David
Portland Maine
Hi tuqueboy.
I've not had much success making my own mother so I can't really answer your question. Making mother naturally takes a loooong time and red wine will turn faster than white wine. I do believe though that the container should be out of direct light and in a fairly warm place. Purchasing a mother culture certainly will speed up the process but even then, it'll take you at least 3 months to get your first batch of quality-tasting vinegar. Good luck.
hey there kim.
love the site -- very informative. i was wondering what kind of humidity/light conditions one needs to create mother and vinegar. and what do you think of purchasing mother, as opposed to making one's own?
thanks,
tuqueboy
Hi Kim
Thanks for the reply eh!
I happened to find a store here in Penticton British Columbia that can purchase the mother from a supplier in the states, so I am going to give that a try
Thanks again eh!
John
Hi John.
Hmmmm, sending a glob of mother into Canada might be risky. I mean, by the time it gets there it could be "expired." Where abouts in Canada are you? Perhaps you can get some mother from our Canadian correspondent, Alan Kerr, who lives near London, eh?
Wow some intersting information here!
Any chance of getting some of your mother?
I havent had alot of luck with making vinegar, but it sure seems you are doing something right!
Congratulations
Hi Jim. You'll need an opening at the top to pour your wine in and to get the slabs of old mother out. See the photo at http://gangofpour.com/
diversions...ndabaldwin.html as an example.
The chemical, TCA, which causes a wine to be "corked" is not something you'd ever find on a label. It comes from, primarily, tainted corks. This causes wine to smell bad, like old, musty wet cardboard. There is a lot of info about TCA on the net. To learn more about it, just Google the term "corked wine."
Best of luck in your vinegar making!
Hello Kim,
You mention using a wooden keg for "brewing" vinegar. Should the keg have a top? Or no top so that it would be a barrel?
Also, could you tell me about not using "corked" wines to make vinegar? I'm a little confused. I do see "sulfites" listed on bottles of wine I buy, but not that other group of chemicals you talked about.
I can't wait to get started making vinegar. Thanks so much. Jim in Long Beach, CA
Hi Doug.
Hmmm. You mean you'd accept a piece of slime from a stranger?
I'll email you.
Cheers,
Kim
You mention that you've sent pieces of your mother of vinegar all over the world ... any chance you might send another piece to California
Seriously, if you would be willing to send some, my wife and I would love it.
Thanks,
Doug Seifert (doug at cacas dot org)
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