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Good points made, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, those who perpetuate the double standards are the ones least likely to look in the mirror. We can hope that some will pull their heads out of the sand and realize that if they want to reach the largest audience possible, that captions/subtitles/transcripts are the keys to helping them do that. Those that complain are only serving to pigeonhole themselves, of course if that's what they WANT, then DV isn't the aggregator for them anyway!
I agree with many of the points you've made about DV's requiring open access by the use of captioned English or transcripts for vlogs.
What is ironic is that some individuals who persist in demanding ASL translations for written blogs but don't provide captioning or transcripts in their vlogs are kinda shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak. Are any of them really thinking about the future, the road ahead?
If they are so ardent about getting all the information including teaching ASL as a viable language to deaf babies and toddlers, then they need to understand their target audience-- hearing parents who have no knowledge of ASL or Deaf culture. A good majority of deaf children are born to hearing parents.
To reach this audience means using written English in the form of captions or a transcript when a vlog is presented. How else will a deaf child's hearing parents who surf the internet for information on deafness understand the message?
Otherwise, DV will become dominated by CI and oral blogs, and hearing parents who are geared to English as their primary language will gravitate to a deaf aggregator that speaks in their language and hence, will get only the CI or oral methods for information regarding communication modes for deaf children.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting ASL down as I believe it's another communication tool to help a deaf youngster gain language acquisition at a time when his brain is the most plastic. But hearing parents are the ones who make the communication and education decisions for their deaf baby. They speak and understand English, and in order to get a message across, the message has to contain English. Is anybody getting the big picture?
Exactly, Ann. It's a great "bait and hook" technique by getting parents and other people interested in ASL by getting the videos captioned. There are many, many(!) deaf, hh, and hearing people who may in fact be interested in learning more about ASL but that interest gets shot out of the sky when no captioning are used in these Deaf vlogs if the vlogger is trying to make a case in support of ASL, Deaf education and what not. Adding a transcript is fine, too, if you don't mind movies, tv shows, and other speaking video blogs be provided with transcripts as well.
Gotta think long term and gotta think "target audience" in order to be successful. Which is why that having an organization of some sort who don't mind volunteering by helping add captions/subtitles for Deaf vloggers could do wonders in opening more doors and opportunities.
If Deaf vloggers were smart they go ahead and somehow add captions (or add transcript at the very least) and state their cases or support of ASL, etc in Deaf Village. After all, there are many, many more people out there who would be on the side of cochlear implants, AVT, speaking, oral/aural methods and so on than there are those who support ASL alone.
Put an ASL video on YouTube and it'll only attract those who know ASL. But add captions/subtitles then your audience could potentially jump 10 folds or more and the opportunity to capture and hold an audience far longer and allow the vlogger to state his or her case, opinions and what not. Not to mention the potential to increase interest in ASL itself.
This is a problem with many/some of the Deaf people. They think in terms of "entitlement" rather than "opportunity" to help expand the exposure on ASL. Seek Geo is a perfect counter-example of that. In fact, he stated that his adding captions to his vlogs helped generate new and renewed interests on learning ASL.
How can those who are against this (captioning/translation)in the same breath get so upset with parents, like myself, who chose for their child to listen and speak? It's not really a great way to PR Deaf Culture if you're also saying how lacking written English skills are for those out there. Blaming oral education for the problem doesn't jive either.
Indeed, Mike, I use Seek Geo's vlog as one way to learn ASL myself. I just wrote about this in Candy's most recent blog.
When a deaf person doesn't have access to Deaf culture or cannot find/afford ASL classes, this is the next best way to learn ASL in the informal conversational manner. Books or online courses don't illustrate the spatial/time qualifiers of ASL very well. I need the English captioning to see if I'm reading the signs well enough. Geo may not have the greatest grammar or spelling, but I'm really glad he makes the effort to caption his vlogs. Besides, some of his vlogs are downright funny!
Especially eating those "Harry Potter" jelly beans.
No thanks for me. He has a cast-iron stomach.
Guys, guys, guys,
Mike at 7:42 PM June 19,2008 is right.
Remember that he doesn't eat Harry Potter's jelly beans.
Warning: He's Voldermort.
*Rubbing Hands*
Hey, let's put the words back into Carl's mouth and say that we will do write-ups for ASL vlogs if they PAY us! Yea!! Awesome idea!!
I say let it go and find other things that are in better use of our time. It is just a nick-pick thing that people want to start a war with and IMHO, I could care less what they think. It is all about respect and to be tolerate of one ideals.
Kepp them comin', Mike! You are one of the best bloggers out there and I like read what you have to say.
WG, hmm...so in a fantasy world I'm the "bad guy" but in real world I'm the "good guy"?
Make sense.
Gotcha, Mike!
It's awry as it is......
Well-written.
It'd be great if there is an organization or a body of people willing to help include captions in Deaf vlogs for those who want it. The question is, who is willing to step up to the plate and commit time, resources, manpower and money to make it work?
Mike,
Not too long ago you put out a blog about ASL avatars, or was it someone else who brought this subject up? Candy? Forgive me, if I get the credit wrong but I know someone brought it up on the deaf blogosphere.
What if this same consortium who developed this animated ASL avatar did the same for converting ASL into captioned English? It would be great too, if the English could be converted to ASL as well? That would be the challenge, it would bring all of us d/Deaf that much closer to the goals and aspirations for our future generations who should be able to compete on par with those in the hearing world.
If here is a means to provide ASL/BSL access to blogs I would use it unconditionally. There isn't, so I can't, it isn't rocket science to follow that. Knowing bi-linguality is common to most deaf people then text access is still access for them, and it doesn't preclude they have to stop signing either.
Regarding DV, I am in two minds, it looks as if the ideal of unity via an 'aggregate' has gone down the swanee again, putting one against another is hardly unity, and 'demanding' access, while very logical, doesn't answer the abusives of rights that exist in our respective worlds, those who use 'access' selectively.
We all know the sagas of people with hearingloss, and the jibes "He or she hears when they want to.." we also have those who only give access "When they want to !" This is total sights abuse, we would not accept this from mainstream, so why shoudl we accept this from our 'peers'.
It seems both sides of the question have a vested ineterest in drawing a line between us all, what IS it they are afraid of ? Itoo fear DV will just become the home, of those who find sign language a nuisance... and culture a hindrance.
Mutual respect is not something old guard deafies will ever understand.
Again, it's not in DV's interest or intention to "draw a line" for the express purpose to block out "certain people." No. This is about having a site that would be completely accessible to ALL who come. The single one common ground available to all when it comes to communication is the printed English format. And since not all understand the spoken language, signs (ASL, PSE, SEE, etc), or even cued speech the requirement that any submitted vlogs will require at a minimum a transcript or at best have them captioned/subtitled.
Again, if people do not like DV's policy why are they complaining if they have DR? Nothing like having a little competition to get people thinking.
If DV had the resources such as time, money and manpower they would be all too happy to ensure to help translate and provide transcripts or captioning for their vlogs. But the reality is that DV does not have those resources. So, the onus and responsibility falls on the vlogger...not DV. If they want to reach out to a larger audience who do not know signs, cued speech or cannot hear or understand spoken words the vloggers will either include transcripts or caption/subtitle their vlogs. It's a simple concept yet people need to learn to accept a little competition and respect DV's philosophy as a team.
MM-- You've made some very good points, but I don't see DV guidelines as the problem. DeafRead has been divisive on so many issues ever since I started reading it. This is just the latest drama.
you got me vote, good sir. I think the only person who really understood why exactly the Deaf militants are irked by rule #5:
http://alltheyoungdudes.radio666...e/#comment-
1169
Now that your thoughts regarding subtitles are published and point taken, I'm acutally curious as to what your thoughts regarding this point in topic that nobody seems to really blog about.
oh, i commented too soon. you did made a response... my bad.
thanks for your feedback.
Well, Tony's analysis has gone to the depth of navel gazing at the bottom of a trash can. Appreciative but still his points are way off in some areas. All the encouragement people need is to understand the fact that there are millions of deaf and hard of hearing (and hearing!) people who do not know signing or visual communication which is why English is the most logical choice as the most accessible form of communication in the printed format. Saying "pretty please" won't guarantee that they will include transcripts, captions, or subtitles. In the end DV will still accept only those that fit guideline #5. So, what's the point? Again, navel gazing to an extreme over the word "require" rather than substitute it with "encourage."
Tony need to learn to simply respect DV's own policy and let competition be what it is when it comes to niche areas. But with 30 million people with hearing loss, it's certainly not a niche area when it comes to the English language.
really interesting blog posts here. (I'm a dv blogger but focus on multiple special needs and homeschooling.) The only thing i have to say is that I wish that there was less division. as just one small example, we'd love to learn ASL by immersion but English is our first language and because of DS autism I'm not going to remove his implant for that kind of interaction. hard to find folks who want to participate in that kind of interaction. And it is a shame because I really think there are many like us- hearing AND deaf. (by that I MEAN hearing people and deaf people- not just deaf people who hear.) As a homeschooler I can't tell you the number of folks that choose ASL as their 2nd language for study. More than a few I can assure you. Reasons vary of course. The quetsion for me has always been- why NOT widen your circle of influence? Many Deaf will say that THEY are not welcome but the wall has been built so high for so long...it is a 'why bother' attitude by many to learn ASL other than in the random classes here and there. more for 'fun' than for function.
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