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I recall that video..
what reallllly turned me off is what you said.
"But by the time she was two years she was no longer signing and began to talk in complete sentences!"
you're not communicating with your daughter anymore ?? it feels like you said that, you're deaf, yes.. you admit it. and yet you dont want to 'encourage' your daughter to keep on sighing ? I find it very odd.
if you did not mean that, why did you say that she no longer signs ? you dont talk with her anymore ? if so, only oral ? if so, why ?
another thing.. I msorry I guess you do not undesrtsand the AGB Demostration
"protest and demand that all babies/toddlers who have a hearing loss ought to use ASL only"
its ABG thats demanding that WE DO NOT teach our kids signs.
well.. I should say demand.. they just flat out say do not sign.
we're not saying that demand all babies/toddlers to ues ASL only.
Uh, midwest guy, my daughter is hearing and I'm hard of hearing and prefer voice over signing when it comes to my hearing daughters. I understand completely my daughter's talking and have no problem with it. I guess you didn't bother to read my Haloscan comment in my blog about the video then?
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...6803705/
#478501
As for AGB, protesters ARE in fact demanding that AGB ought to use and teach in ASL only when AGB does not have a policy on teaching AGB kids using sign language. It goes in line with Eberwein's wish/demand that all "Deaf babies" sign in ASL.
Addendum: In fact, my preference has always been on speaking and listening. I function fine among my hearing peers and friends with my hearing aid. No problem talking and listening over the phone. Listen to talk radios while in my car and so on.
Bravo! You hit the nail on the head!
As a culturally Deaf person of several Deaf generations on both sides and a graduate of a residential school, I am bummed. With my background which gives a label to my identity, I am automatically categorized as the David Eberweins (David as a person is a great guy but I do not agree with him on many things). I wouldn't mind being a part of Amy Cohen Efron's camp as I see her as somewhat reasonable. Sure, introduce ASL or CASE to all deaf and hoh babies and fade out sign language when some of them start to progress nicely in listening and speaking.
Ive seen that in my son. Ive seen that among my son's oral friends. I am a Deaf person with a Deaf son who prefers to call himself hard of hearing becuase he with his implant functions like one.He listens to music every night with his CI on, and often sleeps through the night with it still on. When he sees kids playing out in the street, he pops it on and runs after them and starts to socialize just fine. So be it then. Deafieswould say, oh he is in denial or he has an identity crisis. Blah blah.
Mike, thank you for your blog as time is critical due to the upcoming demonstration.
You're welcomed, Anna.
Out of curiosity, what's up with the capitals on the CUED, and why the implication that better hearing means better inclination for cueing?
And I'm not sure I agree with the idea that there even has to be a choice or that one has to come before the other - why not just do both simultaneously, cueing and signing?
No, that was my own mistake. It's cued and not CUED.
It's up to the parents' decision as long as the decision is an informed one. Some would prefer to use cued speech first just like the link I provided about the mother who adopted a deaf orphan because cued speech is easier to master than signing for one thing.
I am all for Amy Efron Cohen's vlog about how deaf babies deserves the same opportunity as hearing babies on sign language exposure.
Anna S., I am happy to know that you say your son is functioning well among his hearing peers. What I do not understand is the negative connotation that is associated to ASL when you used the word "fade out" for those who no longer needs it. I find that to be conscendencing. It is like telling Asians, Latinos and so on that their or ancestors' language should fade out because they are literate in English.
We should not be influenced by our own country's ethnocentric attitude about being monolingual and instead, embrace bilingualism or even better, mulitilingualism! I am disheartened and saddened by this such ethnocentric and ignorance attitude on the part of anyone. For Pete's sake, America is the most diverse country.
Mike, out of curiosity, would you encourage all potential hearing bilinguals or multilinguals to drop out other language(s) in favor of English? I feel deaf babies/people deserve the same right. Why is it a crime to let them immerse and enjoy more than one language and decide for themselves when they're older enough?
I am all for Amy Efron Cohen's vlog about how deaf babies deserves the same opportunity as hearing babies on sign language exposure.
Anna S., I am happy to know that you say your son is functioning well among his hearing peers. What I do not understand is the negative connotation that is associated to ASL when you used the word "fade out" for those who no longer needs it. I find that to be conscendencing. It is like telling Asians, Latinos and so on that their or ancestors' language should fade out because they are literate in English.
We should not be influenced by our own country's ethnocentric attitude about being monolingual and instead, embrace bilingualism or even better, mulitilingualism! I am disheartened and saddened by this such ethnocentric and ignorance attitude on the part of anyone. For Pete's sake, America is the most diverse country.
Mike, out of curiosity, would you encourage all potential hearing bilinguals or multilinguals to drop out other language(s) in favor of English? I feel deaf babies/people deserve the same right. Why is it a crime to let them immerse and enjoy more than one language and decide for themselves when they're older enough?
Katherine, it's a strawman question you're attempting to ask using nothing but emotional appeal. Doubly so what you're asking is also a red herring question when the issue is about parents making an informed decision for their deaf/hoh child based on various factors or results as a reason for their decision which may or may not include ASL.
Do you know what ignorant mean?
If you don't, then that's what you are.
Actually... you're an ignorant anyways, Mike. 
I know David Eberwein. I am quite familiar with Deaf Bilingual Coalition. I have four hearing kids and a Deaf kid. I have 6 hearing grandkids and one Deaf grandson. I majored in English in college. I taught ASL 30+ years mostly to hearing people and to a few Deaf people. I do ASL poetry and storytelling. I have been Deaf all my life. I mention all this, not to be big-headed, but to indicate that I have some credibility.
It seems you have yet to completely understand all nuances and power of this natural language amazingly developed BY Deaf people and passed on generation to generation DESPITE over 90% of Deaf people having hearing parents, DESPITE purists like AGBell and yes, DESPITE Deaf people like yourself who seem to be insistent about belittling other Deaf people and our language.
I have yet to see as powerful criticism from you against the audistic system that constantly discriminates against Deaf people and ASL as those you frequently make against ASL and other Deaf people.
If you feel you could benefit from and enjoy being "hearing" and writing/speaking English, good for you! If you choose to prefer English/being hearing over ASL/being Deaf, it's your right, although honestly I find that hard to believe.
But hey! there is still much social injustice against Deaf people and ASL that it is the obligation of ANY person, non-signing, and especially the signing ones, to stand up against the injustice rather than to hammer down those who speak up in the name of humanity and equality. And one of the most articulate activists for Deaf humanity and equality is David Eberwein. I hope to see many many many more David Eberweins out there than your kind of criticsm. Oh yes, I am aware that fortunately for us all, this is still a country that upholds the FREEDOM of "SPEECH".
Please for your daughter's sake, do not encourage her to drop the signing (I did see the video of her signing which was adorable). Do not stop signing to her. Unless you truly want to AVOID any positive experiences with other Deaf people, never think ASL is unworthy of maintaining and enhancing social relationships with people OTHER than the speaking only people.
It DOES NOT help at all to say that Deaf people and ASL are not "good enough" to keep up with because they are! They have benefitted the whole world, the sciences, the arts, and yes, ALL children, but especially for OUR Deaf children everywhere in USA and Canada (I do not support ASL overtaking other signed languages in other countries).
Did you know that when Dr. Stokoe proved that ASL was linguistically a complete human language, it impacted the linguistics field so hugely that it upgraded its dogma that a human language is based on speech to one based on what happens in the human brain and articulated in different modes (spoken or signed). Amazing, eh?
DE and Deaf Bilingual Coalition are NOT militant at all. They do not destroy, they do not hurt anybody, they do not use weapons. If you want a good
apparently, my previous comment was cut off at the end so here's the last part...
"If you want a good example of "militant", take a good look at AGBell. His kind has a long history of pursuing narrow-minded beliefs and practices that destroy people, and hurt them with plenty of "weapons"."
Nice argument, "Pure ASL." And that's the best you got?
"It seems you have yet to completely understand all nuances and power of this natural language amazingly developed BY Deaf people and passed on generation to generation DESPITE over 90% of Deaf people having hearing parents, DESPITE purists like AGBell and yes, DESPITE Deaf people like yourself who seem to be insistent about belittling other Deaf people and our language."
There are purists and militants on both end of the spectrum, Ella. Secondly where have I belittled Deaf people just because they are Deaf? Show me in all my 1130+ blogs where I have belittled Deaf people just because they are Deaf? Have you completely missed my blog about Amy Cohen? I have an opinion regarding ASL but that's about it and nothing about belittling it. Opinions, yes. Belittling, no.
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"I have yet to see as powerful criticism from you against the audistic system that constantly discriminates against Deaf people and ASL as those you frequently make against ASL and other Deaf people."
As those I "frequently make against ASL and other Deaf people"? Such as?
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"If you feel you could benefit from and enjoy being "hearing" and writing/speaking English, good for you! If you choose to prefer English/being hearing over ASL/being Deaf, it's your right, although honestly I find that hard to believe."
Yes. I do enjoy hearing. Music, talking, listening to talk radios, playing the piano, public speaking and so on. Yes, I prefer English over ASL since I speak and listen fine. English is my preferred mode of communication. This has always been the case since I was little. Nothing hard to believe there. All my work is done over the phone, use of my field radio when I go out and do some stream surveys, go to meetings both public and internal, talk to my supervisor, my line officers, go out with a crew fire fighting, do some public speaking that's a part of my work and so on. I am just as qualified to present my views, opinions and experience regarding these deafness issues. Perhaps you're surprised because you have a profound hearing loss and you have no experience (i am assuming here) on what exactly sounds are and the benefits of listening/hearing?
"But hey! there is still much social injustice against Deaf people and ASL that it is the obligation of ANY person, non-signing, and especially the signing ones, to stand up against the injustice rather than to hammer down those who speak up in the name of humanity and equality. And one of the most articulate activists for Deaf humanity and equality is David Eberwein. I hope to see many many many more David Eberweins out there than your kind of criticsm. Oh yes, I am aware that fortunately for us all, this is still a country that upholds the FREEDOM of 'SPEECH'. "
I, too, believe in "Freedom of Speech" which is why I write my blogs. Or stand up at the podium at Gallaudet University during the vlog/blog conference and make my voices known, literally. Or write exhaustively about the UbiDuo communication device that have the potential to help Deaf people immensely in their interaction with their hearing peers or whoever. I am for closing the communication gap, too. I am for technology that will help close this gap. And so on.
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"Please for your daughter's sake, do not encourage her to drop the signing (I did see the video of her signing which was adorable). Do not stop signing to her."
It is their personal choice to sign or not. Only my oldest is the most "proficient" in signing. However, we all use our voices to talk in our household all the time.
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"Unless you truly want to AVOID any positive experiences with other Deaf people, never think ASL is unworthy of maintaining and enhancing social relationships with people OTHER than the speaking only people."
Why do you think I continue to use sign language, then? I see it as a tool as well. And handy to have when I meet other Deaf people. After all I did go to Gallaudet University which was a positive learning experience though with lots of caveats.
Mikey or Mickey, where you get off advocating Cued Speech? Is that the method you used before enrolling at Gallaudet? Bottom line, ASL benefits. Society knows it does wonders for their babies, but implement opposite approaches for those with mild to severe hearing loss. Why bother using basic signs with your kid if you know its benefits huh? I don’t think ASL is promoted as much as it should for deaf infants in intervention centers and that’s unfair. I don't buy into this logic that you have to be "hearing" to function on this planet. Such ignorance! Humans are a funny breed and I count you as one of them clowns.
"It DOES NOT help at all to say that Deaf people and ASL are not "good enough" to keep up with because they are! "
Are you implying that I say these things? Where have I said such things if that is the case? The reality is English is the main language of use in our society. You cannot become a lawyer, for example, if you do not have a good command of the English language simply because you have to study law and take the bar exam. There are many Deaf lawyers who have excellent command of the English language. Of course, there are gradation of proficiencies on the use of English that would be either be satisfactory, excellent or simply doesn't matter when it comes to leaving college and make a living.
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"They have benefitted the whole world, the sciences, the arts, and yes, ALL children, but especially for OUR Deaf children everywhere in USA and Canada (I do not support ASL overtaking other signed languages in other countries)."
That's fine.
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"DE and Deaf Bilingual Coalition are NOT militant at all. They do not destroy, they do not hurt anybody, they do not use weapons."
I directed my opinion toward DE and not the DBC itself when he used the words "Deaf babies" and that, in my opinion, could be seen as a bit of militant in thinking by many people.
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"If you want a good example of "militant", take a good look at AGBell. His kind has a long history of pursuing narrow-minded beliefs and practices that destroy people, and hurt them with plenty of "weapons"."
Like I said there are extremes on both end of the spectrum. For the past decade or so the schools at Riverside or even Fremont continues to perform way below satisfactory in many subjects (see the California STAR report) including English compared to the rest of the schools in California even though they use ASL exclusively in those classrooms? Somehow I keep seeing a dichotomy there when it comes to ASL and education at an exclusive all-Deaf school.
http://www.csdf.k12.ca.us/academ...SARC2005-
06.pdf
Ella, please focus on the argument and not the person by making all kinds of accusations on the board. I know that the ASL issue is a touchy one but that doesn't excuse the person who is insistent on attacking the person for stating an opinion. Doing so will make that person appear shrill and overly emotional.
Drmzz:
"Mikey or Mickey, where you get off advocating Cued Speech? Is that the method you used before enrolling at Gallaudet? Bottom line, ASL benefits. Society knows it does wonders for their babies, but implement opposite approaches for those with mild to severe hearing loss. Why bother using basic signs with your kid if you know its benefits huh? I don’t think ASL is promoted as much as it should for deaf infants in intervention centers and that’s unfair. I don't buy into this logic that you have to be "hearing" to function on this planet. Such ignorance! Humans are a funny breed and I count you as one of them clowns."
The name is "Mike."
Never used Cued speech but I see tremendous value on using Cued speech.
I never once said or produced a logic saying/implying that you need to be able to hear in order to function in society today. I am an advocate on closing the communication gap.
Drmzz, ad hominem attacks are not considered as replacements for making arguments in here. Next time you break that rule in here (see rules at top of comment page) considered your comments erased.
I, and most people here, are interested in seeing the arguments presented and not personal attacks. Something that I have always maintained and believed in. Convince me with your arguments, and not your attacks.
Mike,
Now you have me literally scratching my fingers on the blackboard! What makes you flip-flop so much! :-(
I don't know where you stand now. You have me already confused. Before you were in awe of Amy Cohen Efron and then now you are decrying about ASL.
Michelle, my views have been consistent. I haven't "flipped flopped." Perhaps you have not understood well enough my complete views or that your perception of my views and/or me are wrong. You need to re-read again what I wrote about Amy Cohen.
I looked at this discussion this morning (7/27) and it never left my mind all day. I like to look at things from a perspective.
I am Deaf of Deaf parents, educated, bilingual, and teaches ASL/Deaf Studies as my primary profession. Sometimes I teach because I try to understand myself. I am not sure if I am clear on that one. One old sage said, "To teach is to learn twice". Who said education is a one-way street?
What I have pondered all day is about a simple sentence that David Eberwein said, "We weant all Deaf babies to be proficient in both ASL and English." I looked at the different arguments related to that comment. I just wanted to notice something that I find interesting.
I had a conversation with some people while viewing notable paintings at the Louvre in Paris, France a while ago. We were commenting how important it is to note that a painter is deaf because there are several works in the Louvre that came from deaf persons.
One said, why is it so important to recognize a person by his or her deafness? I thought of that, and I answered back with a question. Why do I see paintings with names and their associated countries? I see this Flemish painter, that Italian artist, that Spanish painter, and so on. Why was nationality so important in recognizing a work?
Does this represent a parallel? Do people identify themselves with their "nationalities"? A certain nation would feel proud of their culture and diversity and made sure it is noted throughout.
I might be rambling, but I am about to turn to the point. When a child in the United States is born, do we immediately call that child a citizen of the United States? What right do we have in determining its citizenship? Just simply because that child happen to be born here in this country? What if that child grows up and decide to move out of the country? What then?
What David said may be unconsciously coming from cultural or "national without boundaries" viewpoints. We can easily recognize Spanish culture and the country they come from. Deaf people are unique because they do not have a country thus the reason why I said, "a nation without boundaries".
Is it culturally appropriate to label deaf babies with capital D, that I don't know. The same goes with American babies. We call them Americans. They don't know much about America at their age. That doesn't matter. Does that matter with Deaf babies too? Again I don't know. But I find this intriguing and should be further discussed.
Cheers,
KJ
??
I guess Ella is busy? Hmmm.....
"First off, babies born with hearing loss are not automatically Deaf."
I have seen several deaf babies myself and I can see the difference. One major difference I've seen in deaf babies is how they use their eyes as their ears. They will bend backwards if they feel there's something behind them and if the see something out of the corner of their eyes, they will look in that direction just like hearing babies if they heard something coming from that direction. So that leads me to believe they are automatically Deaf. They already have that instinct starting at birth. It is the adults who will either encourage that instinct to grow or stifle it.
I have a couple of questions. Nobody seems to know the exact answer to these questions.
Exactly what is the percentage of children who use the AVT approach only are actually sucessful? I have asked several professionals and I have never gotten a straight answer.
What happens if you implanted a child and refuse to teach the child ASL, and 10 years later, you realize that it's not working out.. Then what? The child would then have to start over. It may be too late then.
This is why personally, I would prefer to give a deaf child everything. ASL, hearing aids, speech therapy, etc. So if something fails, they won't be delayed.
Just me,
It's the use of the word, "Deaf" babies in place of deaf babies and that is an ill-placed misnomer. And a bad one at that. The word "Deaf" denotes a cultural deafness and upbringing. Babies are born deaf, not Deaf.
Good point but what do we call black/asian/etc babies who are born the way they are? They haven't been raised cuturally black/asian/etc yet but we accept the fact that they do have their own culture, history, etc. Why cannot we do the same with deaf babies? Accept and love them for who they are instead of fixing them. This is what the whole thing is about. When many babies are born, they are considered to have something wrong with them. Instead of looking on the bright side, (they weren't born with more serious problems or even health problems) they are undergoing unnecessary surgeries (just my opinion) because professionals who aren't deaf themselves or have little knowledge about deaf issues are giving very biased advice to parents.
Also another thing I've noticed.... So many people are complaining about deaf people having 4th grade english. Many of the deaf people with 4th grade english are mainstreamed because as we all know, deaf schools are on the decline. So the education deaf children are recieving from mainstreamed school while using the AVT approach is questionable. This is why I asked this question...
"Exactly what is the percentage of children who use the AVT approach only are actually sucessful?"
It's not about always about "fixing" them but about giving them that extra option in life.
What extra option? Refusing a child a chance to learn ASL and using only the AVT approach. I fail to see where the "extra option" is.
I never said that extra option would exclude ASL
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