Please don't type in all CAPS, it's the equivalent to YELLING, let alone hard to read, thank you.
Dude,
Few comments since you have a tendency to be quite economic with the truth.
1. You make it sound like the kurds are one homogenous lot. Well they are not, they even speak different languages (not accents), which different kurds in different regions do not understand. Its is just like saying all arabs are the same which is a fallacy..
2. Speaking about the developed kurdish democracy...You fail to mention the civil war between the 2 regions. You fail to mention that when people voted each contorlling party had exactly 50% of the vote. You fail to mention that there is assyirans who probably voted for their parties and got zilich all although they are a majrotiy on some places. You fail to mention that the united kurdish parliment never convened until the americans forced to do so in late 2002.
But yep you are right...it is a democracy after all
Long Live Iraq
I didn't fail to mention any of these..The civil war that u talk about finished 6 years about..Civil wars happen everywhere (i.e.Europe, USA etc etc)..Hopefully it will never happen agian..
The Kurdish language has accents but tell me which language doesn't ?
If a language doesn't have different accents then that is not a proper language.. We don't have lingual differences.
Yes there has been several fairly democratic elections in Kurdistan and we are working on it...I don't say PUK and KDP are both fully democratic as I am not their supporters.
Talking about the minorities in Kurdistan, I fully support the rights of not just Assyrians, but Chaldeans and Turkmens and the Arabs.
to be continued
continue..
These people have all the rights to choose what they want. As I am aware, there are Assyrian schools in the Assyrian-populated areas and each minority has their own media and political parties. Some political parties even have their own forces (I think not anymore since the US banned local militia apart from PUK and KDP)..
best regards
mm, i guess the kernal of the idea here, is that "Iraq" and Iran, Syria, Israel et all, are arbitary borders drawn up by occupying "liberators" last century for their own ultrior purposes - perhaps to fracture and make the area easier to control to their own advantage. It seems to be backfiring.
If Kurdistan and Iraq can pull together and support each other as independent regions with individual identities, rather then being pulled and tugged at by imposed borders, then maybe the whole region could gain in strength. That would put the wind up some certain other selfinterested offshore parties, so it would probably have to be done with the tact and grace to gain support from other regions in the area also.
now ignore me, i don't have indepth knowledge, this is just a hunch.
very nice comment emigre... I totally support your idea..In fact that is what I personally want...two different identities with great partenerships and perfect strategic relations...
I am sure we can do it.
regards.
Ive always been a firm believer in the formation New Kurdistan, of giving the Kurds the "Guam Package". You dont get the stigma (for that region at least) of being a (US)state, you get all the benifits of being a state, and you dont have to pay taxes. Hell we would even lean on Turkey and Iran to cough up some of that land they owe you. The fundementalist in Iraq are never going to allow democracy and are going to do everything in thier power to make us miserable until we leave. Strengthening the Kurds and making it a force in that region to be reckoned with might be the next best thing.
The Kurds have every reason to want their independence, but they are missing a critical fact. Turkey will never allow it! The kurds need the Iraqi Arabs to guarantee their autonomy against Turkey and Iran. They are 15 years ahead of their southern compatriots in political, social and economic development. This is their chance to guide the rest of Iraq towards a tolerant, secular democracy in which they can play a mjor role. Instead their eagerness to have it all will doom them to occupation by Turkey and animosity from Arabs.
Mark my words, Kurdistan won't come from the land of Iraq. Now, I won't denie the possiblity if Kurdish districts in Iraq, but not an independant stateo of Kurdistan. 9/10s of the law with talking about land, is not old promises its possesion. I would also point out the staute of limiations on land contracts if fairly short and would no longer be legal. I will promise if you hold old promises or taking land from Iraq to start your new country you will fail, I would try a new approach.
Dear Kurdo,
What the Kurds need is a viable economic future. This economic viability is better acheived if the Kurdish region is linked to the rest of Iraq. Over the last 12 years of Kurdish free rule in the 3 Northern provinces of Dihok, Arbil and Sulaimanyia, there was very little progress on the economic front. I wonder where did the 20% of oil revenues allocated to the Kurdish region under the UN food for oil program go? Where did all the proceeds collected at the Turkish border passes as trade customes go? Why were these huge funds not invested in the economy of the region? Why are tens of thousands of Kurds to this day living in poverty all over the Kurdish controlled region that has been "free" and "democratic" for the last 12 years?
Is there that much of a difference between the Kurds wanting their own freedom and country and the Palestinians wanting their own freedom and country? I believe the Kurds should have as much autonomy as possible, as they show the most promise for developing into a successful democratic role model for the rest of the middle east. Unfortunately, this seems highly unlikely since the rest of the Arab world does not appear to want the Kurdish people to be prosperous.
I think maybe we can give some land to them in Africa if they will relocate, I mean Africans don't how much clout on the current world forum.... I have no problem with the Kurdish being prosperous inside the current borders of the nations in the Middle East. I think it would help their cause if Iraq becomes Democratic.
Like any nation, Iraq has both new &ancient threads...yet to be woven into a nation.
The one strong thread that neither the Kurds, the Sunni nor the Shia can ignore bound you all together under Sadaam's boot.
The other thread, stronger still, is the shared yearning for freedom.
The divisions among Iraqis seem to be, not only HOW to achieve & maintain this freedom but what exactly constitutes Freedom for each.
For the Shia, it is to finally worship without being bombed or hacked to death in their holy places.
For a Kurd to enjoy the sense of a cohesive homeland amidst their own ethnicity without being driven like dogs & gassed in the streets.
For a Sunni, to simply have a nice cold beer & make political jokes without being hung up & electrocuted for it.
Kurds & Sunnis counteract the Shia insistance on Sharia Law. Shia &Kurd together can feel strong enough not to be ruled by the Sunni. And Sunni and Shia share the .
oppressive heat and deep appreciation of rare, sweet rain.
The 3 groups counterbalance each other, thus stabilizing the nation.
Their Arab neighbors would be only too glad for Iraq to fail, and are busy tolling the death bell for Iraqi democracy before it has even come into Being.
And what is so bad about having 3 states, anyway? We have 51!
National unity is vital for the survival of the states.
Teachtru:
The last time I looked, we had 50 states, not 51.
Kurdo, For a couple of days now I have been wondering...What is the possibility of an Assyrian Kurd being elected President for the interim period Iraq needs to work through writing a constitution, democracy and ethnic divisions? I ask this because a Kurd would have some years of democracy building under the belt, and only a Christian (in my opinion) would be able to guarantee religious and cultural freedom for all Iraqis.
Rich from USA: There is a saying "If you don't speak Chinese you won't understand Chinese"..the same goes to you..If you haven't lived in Iraq and have haven't experienced the 83 years of terror and wars u wouldn't suggest that a Kurdistan should be stated in Africa..Your comments are no worse than Saddam Hussein's. If u want to solve a problem u should read about its history. Baghdady made a good comment.
Christina
It depends..if the Assyrian turned into an Iraqi nationalist then his chances are very high...if the Assyrian was an Assyrian nationalist then his chances are very low... That is why I prefer that the Assyrian populated areas being supervised by Assyrian people so that they will get fair chances of ruling...
thanks to all for your great comments
Teachtru, you wrote "The divisions among Iraqis seem to be, not only HOW to achieve & maintain this freedom but what exactly constitutes Freedom for each."
Then you list a number of liberties desired by each camp. Every one of those liberties are derivatives of individual rights which is a concept detached from the superficialities of ethnic and racial divides.
I sure wish more people participating on this forum would stop focusing on ethnic differences and focus on univeral political freedoms instead. If balkanizing Iraq were to result in the protection of individual rights of Kurds, I'd be for it. But having a separate Kurdish government, in itself, does not prevent it becoming authoritarian.
[Cont..]
Kurdo, the Kurds in Northern Iraq are as unfamiliar to democracy and freedom as Iraqis given that for decades they've all been living within Saddam's jurisdiction. So, while that anecdote about the Iraqi with the illegally parked car is fascinationg, I doubt you need to look too hard to find a kurd similarly ignorant. There are people like that in the West, too.
Tony, Kurds are not unfamiliar with democracy and freedom. Read the NY Times article (posted in the thread) and you realise that the differences are too deep...Even super-super-glue would never stick the young Kurdistani generations back to Iraq.
This is a reality and facing it is a must !
regards.
Kurdo,
Zeyad (Healing Iraq blog) listed a survey of public opinion from Arbil, the capital of KDP's Kurdish government. If you read the survey, it will contradict your notion of "Even super-super-glue would never stick the young Kurdistani generation back to Iraq". I think you are exagerating the separatist tendencies of the Kurds to suit your own ideology. Most Kurds realize that being part of Iraq is the better option, inspite of the romantic notion of an independent Kurdistan.
Mountaineer, I looked at the survey on Healing Iraq. People were not asked if they want independence or not. They were asked if they wanted a religious or ethnic federation.
I will have another survey conducted by Hawlati newspaper, an independent newspaper from Kurdistan.
Read it here:
http://www.hawlati.com/ehtm/157.htm#Fate
There is another hot issue in Kurdistan about "referendum". I will comment on it shortly.
regards.
So, if not Africa, then maybe a nice place in South America?
Kurdo, if the NY Post article is correct about the younger generation of Kurds in the N.E. then the region is going to have a bright future. I do think that Kurds ~and~ ~Iraqis~ are deeply suspicious of their Arab neighbours, and so do not believe Arab outsiders will have any sway over how Iraq's future government treats Kurds. There may be a sizeable number of Iraqis unfamiliar with the concepts of freedom and democracy but there is also no hint of Iraqis itching to see Kurds with ~less~ freedom than themselves.
[Cont...]
The influence of Islam in Iraqi politics is always an ever present worry. Inspite what various pro freedom Iraqi bloggers say about Al Sistani, I think this person does not belong in government. If an election were held prior to the formation of Iraq's constitution, I can't help but feel one might as well kiss freedom and secular government goodbye. If there is an imminent danger of Iraq becoming anything like Iran, then I would be vehemently for Kurds having their rights protected by a Kurdish government.
Kurdo said:
"If you haven't lived in Iraq and have haven't experienced the 83 years of terror and wars u wouldn't suggest that a Kurdistan should be stated in Africa..Your comments are no worse than Saddam Hussein's."
But Kurdo, you're the one who said, "An isolated ISLAND is wanted urgently for a rich nation ! Ready to pay all they have to run away from their bad bad neighbours ! "
Remember- you don't want oil... you just want a peaceful life like the rest of the world! You can find a nice peaceful life in Africa- free of Arabs and oil.
Tony the article is %100 true. Majority of people are fed up with Islam involving into politics, especially the younger generations.
Al-Sistani knows very well that if the Americans stay in Iraq, his religion can't be involved with politics. So Al-Sistani's calls for direct elections is aimed to kill two birds by one stone, "kick out the Americans and turn Iraq into another Iran"
Milo...lol...yes I prefer a peaceful life with no neighbours... I actually like South America..
contact our office on 00 Mountain Mountain 74, 91, 2004 !
lol
thanks for your great comments.
Al Sistani specifically said last Spring that he did not want to see an Iranian-type mullah run government in Iraq.
He said " We are Shia, but we ARE Iraqis"( or words to that effect )
This month he said the work of politics is not the place of a cleric.
I believe that what the Shia want is, not so much to have an Islamic government, per se, but to have the option to practice sharia ( there are DEGREES of that law) locally.
In the States, laws pertaining to marriage, divorce, property,taxes vary. Occasionally state laws are challenged in Federal court and vice-versa. Most really prefer separation of Mosque and State.
If 3 states should develop in Iraq. what is to prevent a citizen of one state from moving to another where the law is more compatible with their lifestyle.
Business left California for Colorado to ensure more favorable taxes. People go to Nevada for a quicker divorce.
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