Please don't type in all CAPS, it's the equivalent to YELLING, let alone hard to read, thank you.
wow where did u get that pic kurdo ?
I love it's uniting Kurds. I feel it sounds like you want to no unite stronger ties with central Iraq from what you just said, the terrorist aim was to divide Iraq, no neccesary the two Kurd parties, they wanted to make Kurds wary of the rest of Iraq. I feel this is the best time to develop stronger friendships with fellow Iraqi's, show that you are both strong allies vs terrorist.
I wouldn't say wow to something like that, I would just view the photo as a last second change to mourn those who lost their live living a noble cause. It's great to see that they died while being open and cheerful.
As apposed to dying BECAUSE they were open and cheerfull rich?
"I have managed to get a picture of the moment just before the suicide bomber blew himself."
What kind of a camera do you have kurdo? lol, sorry I just had to say this.
Cheers,
Alex
Ps: I strongly recommend this one:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/u...4342-
90098.html
Kurdo,
First, let me say how sad (and outraged) this makes me feel when I read about these terrorist acts.
Second, this is my first visit to your blog and I must say, I'm disappointed, to say the least. When I see you spreading blatant lies about America selling chemical and bio weapons to SH, I turn a deaf ear and blind eye to anyone speaking/writing that kind of shit. You sir, need to research your facts before posting them here where perhaps thousands of people will read it and take it at face value. If you want your message about the Kurds plight to be read by ordinary people like me, you'd best be for getting your facts straight, buddy. F*ck PC.. I'm pissed.
Good pictures how did you manage to get them
also check out zeyad blog article you might find it interesting
www.healingiraq.com
alan
Of course I'm for Kurds doing whatever it takes to increase security in order to prevent further bombings. It would be hypocritical for me to say otherwise. However, you have to admit that Kurds haven't exactly been singled out by these terrorists, considering the number of attacks that have already taken place against virtually every other group in Iraq. These terrorists are the enemies of mankind, period.
Lydia: I agree with you. I've just heard the same tropes over and over so many times I've tired of addressing them. At this point, if someone wants to damage their credibility by regurgitating the same old tired nonsense, far be it from me to stop them.
Arbalest,
Normally I'd agree with you about that, but in this case, I think Kurdo is doing a great diservice to not only himself, but the Kurds, because for me, I'll not be coming back to this site to read his news/views unless he retracts that lie. He's totally discredited himself in my eyes. So, like I said, if he wants the news/views about Kurds to be heard, he'd best be for getting his facts straight. I don't read non-factual blogs.
Kurdo, I live in Nashville, Tennessee, which has the largest community of Kurds now living in the United States, and Nashville has welcomed them and tried to make them as much a part of the community as we can. I have to agree with Lydia, however, that you might want to check your facts concerning what the US did or did not do re SH. Others, particularly Europeans, believe that we Americans do not know what our governments has done in the past, but we do, and will hold our government accountable when necessary - but we will stand up for America when people spread lies about her. Please Do keep blogging as we do want to hear what you and others in Iraq have to say.
Ronin, I ment they didn't die in the mindset of pain and suffering, they were enjoying themselves and were being open. I will try to express better what I mean in a later post, if I didn't get across what I said.
guys..thank u all for ur great great comments...please keep posting them..
Alex lol hehe
Well I meant to say "I got the picture from a Kurdish newspaper..There were 2 cameramans filming the headquarters when the incident happened..but both lost their lives..
Lydia..
When I say US helped Saddam Hussein it is not a lie but it is a fact..
If not, what the heck was Donald Rumsfild doing in Baghdad in 1983 ?
and why was he shaking hands with Saddam ? can u explain this please ?
I am happy that the US had changed its mind after Saddam invaded Kuwait. If USA didn't change its mind, Saddam Hussein was still in power.
People make mistakes.. If we don't admit that we have made mistakes we never go forward.
Can u see what I mean ?
Regards
I'm Sorry to disabuse you Lydia. Kurdo is right about the US selling saddam chemical weapons. Until the sanctions after Kuwait, the US sold Iraq whatever it wanted, shared technology, know-how, materials, freely had iraqis come over to the US and learn in US universities and take their training back home to use at will.
Remember that from 1979, on, when the Ayatollah Khomeini seized power in Iran and took the Americans hostage, Iran made itself a sworn enemy of the US and had taken innocent civilian Americans prisoners. Saddam by contrast at the time was doing nothing of the sort with regards to Americans, so by default, he was our ally against Iran at the time. We gave him the support in order to weaken Iran, by proxy war, and supplied him. [never mind Iran-Contra for the moment].
So Kurdo is exactly right. You owe him an apology. He's telling the truth.
He isn't saying AMERICANS gassed the kurds. HE's saying Saddam did, thanks to what he was getting from the US then, and americans did nothing about it.
You've used atrocious language to a reasonable, peaceful man. It was unwarranted. PC, nothing. It's plain human rights.
Do YOU have a homeland? Do YOU have a nation? Does yours have autonomy? And yet you speak to him like this????
i>A lie repeated often enough and long enough will become accepted as truth. (Paul Josef Goebbles)
I'm used to hearing the "U.S. sold chem/bio weapons to Saddam" lie from foreigners. (Rachel the Brit likes this one.) It doesn't bother me too much to see Kurdo repeat it; I'm getting used to it.
However, the U.S.A. did not sell chem/bio weapons to Saddam; we didn't sell them to anybody; they were NOT FOR SALE, nobody!
However, the truth is that pesticides, fertilizers, vaccines and etc. are made from the same chemicals and substances as chem/bio weapons (the so-called "dual use" materiel). Saddam was not under sanctions and bought such stuff from a host of places, but folks document the valid sales from the U.S.A. of legal substances and proudly proclaim the lie. Usually I just ignore it anymore.
But, Janet in Venice Beach is an American, and an educated one self proclaimed intelligent one, and knows better, or at least should.
1. Almost all of Iraq's weapons, during the war with Iran and later, were of Soviet or Warsaw Pact origin. Just look at pictures of the Iraqi army. Those are AK-47s that they are carrying, not M-16s. Those tanks are Russian T-72s, not M-60s or M-1s.
2. The United States most assuredly did not provide chemical weapons to Saddam. The accusation is absurd.
Kurdo,
If you want to know why Rummy went over there, and from whom weapons were provided, I suggest you read:
The Death Lobby: How the West armed Iraq, by Kenneth Timmerman.
It's a well documented book written after doing 15 yrs worth of research. And yes, it talks about Rummy's visit, how the US ignored Halabja and provides proof of how those chemicals were dropped on the inhabitants. (Russian helicopters) It does not specifically state from whence those chemicals came from. It also shows that American COMPANIES sold chemicals to SH, mainly for medical purposes. You'll never find in this documentation that the "USA were selling chemical and biological weapons to Iraq" .... which is your assertion. This is a bold faced lie spread around the globe, and I'm sick of it. How does a picture of someone shaking hands with SH somehow equate selling CW/BW in your world?
You need a hell of a lot more proof than that, pal. Providing a link to an obviously anti-American website showing Rummy shaking hands is NOT PROOF. Do your homework. You too, Janet. And no, I won't apologize to someone who doesn't do their homework first. I DO read, and seek truth. To say we sold chemicals is true, to say we sold chemical weapons that were then used on the Kurds is SO NOT TRUE. Atrocious language? Please... I was holding back.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obi...2206313-
8230240
well Lydia..US companies (as you say) are under the control of United States.
You can't tell me that a company in USA is not under the control of the US government. Then what is FBI and CIA doing ?
you say:
"To say we sold chemicals is true, to say we sold chemical weapons that were then used on the Kurds is SO NOT TRUE"
In this paragraph u say that "u sold WMD to Saddam"..but you are SURE that they were not being used in Halabja.
well how do you know ? I didn't say Halabja was bombed with American WMD. There were many countries giving Saddam aids. i.e. Germany, France, Russia, UK, USA etc etc
This sounds silly to me. "If I sell u a nuclear bomb, I don't expect you to use it for good purposes".. do u get me ?
...pesticides, fertilizers, vaccines and etc. are made from the same chemicals and substances as chem/bio weapons...
If we had forbidden, or blocked, Saddam from acquiring the necessary matériel for pesticides, fertilizer, vaccines and etc. we'd have been ripped for that too. No winning with you guys. ('Sides nobody would have gone along with that.)
It just occurred to me Kurdo….
We did NOT sell anybody nuclear bombs.
Neither did we sell anybody chemical weapons.
Why are you using nukes as an example?
What is the difference between the fact that we did not sell nukes and the fact that we did not sell chemical weapons that makes people think it's okay to now claim anyway that we did sell chemical weapons, but makes them a little reluctant to claim we sold Saddam nukes? Why aren't complainin about the U.S. for selling him nukes too?
Excellent point Lee. Kurdo, I do understand where your coming from.. let me try and make it clear where I am coming from...
Here's the problem I have with your 1/29 post.
1) Your use of the word 'weapons'. If you had said USA sold chemicals, w/out the word weapons, I wouldn't have near as much of a beef with what you said.
2) Having those words then hyperlinked to a website showing Rummy shaking hands w/SH as 'proof' that we sold said 'chemical/biological weapons'. Well, whoop dee doo. That proves what? It only proves that our admin during that time had some shady dealings with SH. It does not 'prove' that Rummy handed over some 'weapons', as you seem to assert with your words and link.
3) The entire post seems to suggest that:
Rummy shook hands with SH, therefore he sold him chemical 'weapons', and thus SH was able to gas the Kurds, therefore it is the US fault, because "The answer lies here".
Anyway, I know the point you were trying to make, but I really wish you'd check your facts before saying "The answer lies here" when in fact, it does not, and spreads yet more lies about the US. Other than this, I actually do like your blog.
Take care
ok so u guys suggesting that Saddam Hussein was not an American ally during the 1980s ?
what about the Iran contra affair ?
There are some good sources on this site :
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSA...SAEBB/NSAEBB82/
There are two facts. A good one and a bad one. The bad fact is that USA aided Saddam and supported Saddam until 1991 when it turned against USA.
The good fact is that USA corrected its mistake and stopped its aids and supports and eventually removed Saddam.
Do u see my point now ?
Do u see my point now ?
I believe so. (Except for the Iran/Contra thing which is wholly unrelated--they must tell a strange version of that in the Middle East--but that is another matter). Your point would be that aid was given Saddam to stop the spread of the Ayatollahs from Iran (who are not your friends either), and prevent them spreading their brand of Islamic dictatorship across the Middle East. You do not like this (probably would not have liked the Ayatollahs either, but that also is another matter). Therefore, as you do not like this, it is permissible for you to claim that the U.S. sold chemical weapons to Saddam even though you know it did not.
This is it, yes?
It is your blog and you may write what pleases you, whether it is true or not.
And, if that is not your point, then I guess I do not understand.
I guess if I quite arguing about it and just read more, perhaps it will come to me eventually.
This is why I generally no longer even bother to argue with foreigner's about the "U.S.A. sold chemical weapons to Saddam" lies most of the time. Somehow, somewhere, it always seems to come down to the point that whether it is true, is less important than that it gets repeated often.
I only bothered because Janet from Venice Beach is an educated, self-proclaimed intelligent American, and she should, and probably does, know better, and should not be repeating this lie.
I do not expect the same level of truth on this subject from foreigners, and usually just let it go.
Of COURSE I know that the US had dealings with Saddam, I never claimed we didn't. What I DID say was that I had a problem with your claim that we sold him chemical WEAPONS. And in all these claims, you fail to mention the fact that German companies not only sold Saddam chemicals as well, but BUILT THE FACTORIES for him where he could WEAPONIZE the CHEMICALS himself!
Fact: The US, Russia, Germany, and France sold Saddam CHEMICALS and then the whole world looked the other way when he used them on people (shameful)
MYTH: The US sold Saddam WEAPONIZED chemical/biological agents.
Do YOU see MY point now? Do you understand that there's a HUGE difference between selling someone chemicals and selling someone chemical WEAPONS?
WEAPONIZED CHEMICALS VS CHEMICALS.
And do you understand that a picture of Rummy shaking hands with Saddam is NOT PROOF that we sold him WEAPONIZED CHEMICALS?
And to answer your original question, since I doubt your going to read that book I suggested, Rumsfeld went to Iraq to meet with Saddam as a special envoy, to tell him that he had our support in the Iran/Iraq war. We did that because we feared the spread of radical Islam. When two people first meet, they generally shake hands, which is all your picture shows, two people greeting each other and shaking hands. One was a despicable, low-life, scumbag, murderous, piece of shit *spit* and the other was a .
Good day.
uh, that shoulda read:
the other was a (fill in the blank)
Actually, American companies are NOT under the control of the United States government.
This is no doubt a difficult concept to grasp, for someone who has lived their entire life under a totalitarian government, but the US actually has minimal control over private industry, the media, or any non-governmental organizations. Their control is limited to collecting taxes and keeping them from killing people. The American people like to pretend that shadowy government conspiracies control every aspect of their lives, but that's mostly because they don't want to accept any personal responsibility for their own failures.
People who claim they fear the American government actually prove they have no fear at all of it, for they would not dare to publicly announce any such claim if they did.
so anyone who says they fear the u.s government doesnt really because if they did they would be too afraid to say that out loud,ha ha bull shit.the u.s government cannot run around killing and torturing dissidents like say iran or saddams iraq.the leaders of western democracies can be held accountable for that kind of thing,geneva con. abuses,human rights abuses etc.because of theocracies or dictatorships whatever buzz word your using for asshole these days cannot be hel accountable by their own people,there is no recopurse for what they do,hence murders,torture of dissidents in these countries.I think although I dont fear reprisal from bush for my dissent I can honestly say I fear the u.s government and its actions/shady dealings/lies/policies.
lol recopurse,its supposed to say recourse.sorry I type too quickly sometimes.And I was probably not too steady handed due to the laughing induced by the post above mine.Noones afraid of the u.s government or what it might do..hee hee ha ha what a joke.half the civilised world is wondering what on earth bush has up his sleeve.And we are DEFINATELY not anticipating it.In all honesty,I would say I fear what his next move may be.
I think you prove my point, cypher. Can't you even see how you contradict yourself, in your claim that the US government cannot harm you and yet that the US government is going to harm you?
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