Where Have You Gone, Andy Van Slyke?
At least we haven't lost our 10,000th game, yet.
Let's see, we've got a GM who has lost touch with reality, and a manager that plays for 1 run when they are down 5.
We've got a LF, a SS and a C that don't seem to care. And I wonder how much the manager cares. I would think that with most teams there would be a clubhouse or two torn up by now. Tracy hasn't shown much fight on the field. He's gotten thrown out of how many games?? He may have the players backs with the media, but the way they are playing, he shouldn't make it to the end of the season.
whats the odds of jvb getting sent down
he has just been terrible the last 2 games and really hasnt been good at all
i say bring up bullington
They're probably going to trade Chacon or Torres before the deadline. They're definitely sellers now. This season looks to be lost.
Move JVB into the bullpen and call up Bullington. He's too old to be sent back down to the minors. They need to get some use out of him.
I agree about Tracy's disgusting lack of fire. Why is Colborn, the PITCHING COACH, confronting Wilson? Where's Tracy? He's a disgrace as a manager.
I'm also hoping they trade Jack soon. I think the guy has talent but it is pretty clear he doesn't give a shit anymore. If he actually ever did considering Gorzo got pissed at him earlier this season for loafing. Young teams need leaders and this guy is a cancer.
Get rid of him and bring up Bixler. I think at this point the dreams of 82 are slightly unrealistic. The rest of this season should be used to determine if we have anything at AAA we can use next year.
I was just furious with Tracy in the 3rd inning. He had the white flag on the mound (Armas), the Pirates start to mount a comeback with the 3 runs and 2 runners on, and he let Armas bat for himself. I realize it was only the 3rd inning, but couldn't he think a little outside the box even once and go for the REALLY big inning?
And while I think Thunder makes some good points above, especially about Wilson and Paulino, I really feel like Bay is putting forth effort, but he's pressing entirely too hard. He probably should take a rest for a few games in a row, and just relax.
What compels Tracy to assemble a crap batting order, manage like crap in virtually all situations, and make crappy decisions about the pitching staff CONSTANTLY? Has he been hired to assure the Bucs lose? That's all he seems good at.
They should keep JVB in the mop up role to see if his control will come around, dump Armas, call up someone, and maybe put Chacon back in the rotation for a while. Chacon hasn't been brilliant this year, but he hasn't totally blown either.
Sorry for the length of this post -- just getting more pissed by the day. Can only hope that this losing streak gets bad enough that Tracy gets the axe. What a clown he is.
Hasn't rained in a month where? I drove through a hellish storm in Greene County on Sunday afternoon, many cars pulled off the side of 79, and then got home (Mo-Town) in time for another torrential drenching.
And then, of course, JVB got soaked (ba-DUM).
i know it sounds stupid, but JVB has nothing left to prove in AAA. Neither Chacon nor Armas is going to be here next year, so they should keep pitching JVB every five days to see if he can figure it out. Commit to him for two months. What do they have to lose?
This is what happens when you judge a recovering pitcher oin wins and ERA. Calling up Bullington (who has levelled off quite a bit the past few months) woiuld result in another pitcher with an 8 ERA in tne big leagues.
Van Benschoten has no command and poor control. He can't throw anything by major league hitters and he wasn't that polished to begin with. His future may be as a reliever, but I would demote him (assuming he has options) with sepcific instructions to pund the inner half with fastballs and get consisten with the offspeed stuff. And I wouldn't call up Bullington - guys that don't strike people out in AAA usually don't fare well in the big leagues.
As for Jack Wilson - somewhere Jason Christiansen is having a good laugh at Jack. It's a bit surprising that Wilson has descended so quickly into the I don't care get me outta here mode that consumes most Pirate players after a few seasons. Bay might be in that boat next season if he isn't already.
Tracy doesn't strike me as someone that can coach a team like the Pirates. Whatever success he had in LA was due to superior pitching (although he apparently wore out Gagne in the process) and Gary Sheffield. Tracy strikes me as a manager who will not adjust his perceptions and will never ever try something different. Players have roles, situations have outcomes and when it doesn't work - the players are at fault.
Really, Tracy didn't do a whole lot in LA with a high payroll team (other than get to the playoffs once). Why anyone would consider him a good manager is beyond me. I know Littlefield hired him because of their personal history. And I don't think Macha woul dbe doing any better.
None of this matters with the current ownership in place. If Wilson gets unloaded on some unsuspecting franchise, it just means Omar Vizquel will be brought in for one year at $5M.
The Nuttings are going to do the bare minimum in order to give the appearance that they are trying to field a respectable team. That means no long-term deals, no trades that involve any form of risk (out goes veteran middle reliever, in comes middle reliever prospect), and no hiring of competent baseball men that will in any way rock the boat. McClatchy and Littlefield will get replaced by guys that are happy to have the jobs and that come cheaply.
" know it sounds stupid, but JVB has nothing left to prove in AAA. Neither Chacon nor Armas is going to be here next year, so they should keep pitching JVB every five days to see if he can figure it out. Commit to him for two months. What do they have to lose?
apk | 07.17.07 - 6:47 am |"
What do the Pirates have to lose? How about the rest of the fan base? I flipped to the Bucs game when it was 1-0 with the bases loaded and one out last night, and once I saw JVB on the mound I knew it was over and went back to watching Kason Gabbard pitch his gem against the Royals. I don't need the pain of knowing that the Bucs will lose every time they run that clown out to the mound.
I saw JVB pitch a rehab start a few years ago in Lynchburg, back before he went on the shelf, and he got shelled in the first inning there. In the Carolina League. Where maybe 5 percent of the players even get a cup of coffee in the bigs.
At this point, the Bucs would be better served by setting up a pitching machine in Van Benschoten's spot and having Colbrun or whoever feed balls into it and let the defense do what it can.
"What do the Pirates have to lose? How about the rest of the fan base?" - Nathan
If the Pirates haven't lost you as a fan over the past fifteen years, I don't think continuing to send JVB out to the mound is going to put you over the edge. It isn't like there are a bunch of quality alternatives waiting in the wings. Bullington hasn't been good since May.
I think Gavin is right. Whoever is still here is going to still be here almost no matter what. It's the casual fans that show up for bobbleheads and fireworks that are important to them. As long as they come it doesn't matter.
I also agree about Bullington. He got banged around again last night in AAA. We'd get the same thing we get with JVB.
"I saw JVB pitch a rehab start a few years ago in Lynchburg, back before he went on the shelf, and he got shelled in the first inning there. In the Carolina League. Where maybe 5 percent of the players even get a cup of coffee in the bigs."
@Nathan - to be fair to VanBenschoten, rehab appearances are more about getting back into the swing of things rather than results. Especially early in the rehab process - it's more about getting back into game conditions. I would put more emphasis on his performance this season than last year anyway. And it still isn't very good.
Bullington was the starting pitcher in the AAA All-Star Game. I haven't seen him pitch so I can't say how his skills translate to the major league level but what does keeping him at AAA serve?
He's either a major league caliber pitcher or he isn't. We've been developing him for years, it's time to find out. Keeping him at AAA serves no purpose.
This season is lost. They're not coming back from 13 games under .500 Now the entire focus of this organization should be on next year and the "If" game of if Bay gets his stroke back, if LaRoche doesn't screw the pooch the first 2 months, if Duke can come back to be a decent #4 starter, etc etc. maybe we can do something in the Central.
But, yeah, the remainder of this campaign should now shift to figuring out what we can trade in the off-season and who at AAA can we maybe use on the big club next year. That's all. I can't believe this season went down the toilet so quickly. 0-4 out of the break is like the ultimate nightmare scenario.
Where are all those people who were so optomistic 5 games ago?
Good question Joe, although I haven't been even remotely optimistic about this team in roughly ten years. My vote for 70 and 92 hasn't changed all season either. I still want to know who actually voted for "85 or more" in the poll, that's just insane.
Greg, I think it's more that Van Benschoten's a horrible pitcher. I also saw Kip Wells make a rehab start in Lynchburg and he pitched shutout ball when he was on the mound. In my limited and anecdotal experience, it seems that pitchers rehabbing in the minors don't hit much trouble until they get to AA or AAA. There's really no excuse for getting shelled in Single-A if the pitcher is supposed to be major-league quality.
How much would it cost to get Ray Shero and Michel Therrien to run the Bucs?
I have heard it rumored that in the brief time that JVB has been called up from AAA, the MLB pitching coach has been tweeking his delivery. Heard that tactic having negative effects on a pitcher before?
"I have heard it rumored that in the brief time that JVB has been called up from AAA, the MLB pitching coach has been tweeking his delivery. Heard that tactic having negative effects on a pitcher before?
bucbucbuck"
It almost always works out to be a detriment to the pitcher. If you've ever read Jeff Pearlman's book "The Bad Guys Won", he mentions Mel Stottlemyre's tinkering with Doc Gooden's mechanics as one of the reasons Gooden started falling apart beginning in 1986. I wouldn't put it past Colbrun either -- he's done basically everything humanly possible to make a bad pitching staff the worst in baseball.
Greg, I think it's more that Van Benschoten's a horrible pitcher. I also saw Kip Wells make a rehab start in Lynchburg and he pitched shutout ball when he was on the mound. In my limited and anecdotal experience, it seems that pitchers rehabbing in the minors don't hit much trouble until they get to AA or AAA. There's really no excuse for getting shelled in Single-A if the pitcher is supposed to be major-league quality.
From my personal experience (I watch a lot of minor league games at various levels and have seen countless rehab appearances) it all depends. It depends on where a player is in their rehabiliation. It depends on what the team wants a player to focus on during that rehab start - sometimes, a guy will throw nothing but fastballs. It depends on the stadium and opposing teams.
Those are not excuses as much as reasons. VanBenschoten may be a terrible pitcher. But to judge his ability on a rehab start the year after major arm surgery is a bit hasty, I think.
Commenting by HaloScan
