Lenin’s Tomb
An excellent, detailed report - thank you. The media blackout has indeed been a disgrace, so it's even more vital to spread information about the protests as best we can.
The police response seems quite extraordinary, even when considering past experiences. The anti-war movement has until recently had little experience of state violence - this is a new development for many activists and provides important lessons on the role of the police (lessons which I'm sure we'd all rather learn in a less direct manner).
It seems the Stop the War contingent displayed exceptional unity and determination. It's extremely hard to deal with the idiotic behaviour of the Black Bloc as well as state violence. The points John Rees made are extremely important - the tactics of a small number of protestors are highly elitist and counter-productive.
And, yes, we can now see the evidence of our own police's brutal contempt for ordinary people, with the disturbing video of Ian Tomlinson being assualted. It is becoming increasingly urgent and necessary for us all to defend our right to protest.
On our way out of the campsite the police politely searched all of our belongings, asking us to empty everything we had into the street, confiscating Socialist Worker papers, flags, leaflets, books, clothing or anything remotely political.
Perhaps they want to join the SWP?
Diana Johnstone rips the Black Block a new asshole on Counterpunch:
http://www.counterpunch.org/
john...ne04072009.html
Thanks futurecast, respect to you for going and the report.
Your welcome seany. And thanks to Alex for his kind comments (discovered your luna 17 blog recently).
The article by Diana Johnstone is pretty good, however utilizing testosterone arguments and the whole 'young man complex' fails short of a good analysis to me. What about the many female black blockers?
A dialogue with these people and an ability to deter these tactics seems very necessary.
Something I didn't mention in the report was the autonomist style meetings the campsite held. Almost all (French, English, German, etc) who attended the meeting after the demo on the 4th had huge problems with the methods of the Black Block.
Somehow it was eventually decided that at least asking them not to throw stones etc while manning the camp blockade would be a good idea and a good way of achieving this would be by bringing them coffee/tea, having a chat etc I am unaware how much effect this had but I suppose the sentiment has to be appreciated.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/200...-police-
assault
My partner was deeply shocked when I told her what had happened and how the televised news hasn't reported this.
Regarding the video I feel we should distribute it as widely as we can. Yes it's out there - but let's make it viral. At the moment it's starting its way through facebook, lets get it out through our blogs, twitter, email, txts if we can. I don't see it as being insightful, but purely spreading evidence of what has happened. People need to know.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/200.../200...-police-
assault
My partner was deeply shocked when I told her what had happened and how the televised news hasn't reported this.
Regarding the video I feel we should distribute it as widely as we can. Yes it's out there - but let's make it viral. At the moment it's starting its way through facebook, lets get it out through our blogs, twitter, email, txts if we can. I don't see it as being incitant, but purely spreading evidence of what has happened. People need to know.
Excellent report. I want to put some nuance in one thing though: from the moment we departed from the camp (4 am) we we're gassed right away. We'd been getting gas and gas and even more gas more as much as 7 hours.
Now my block (Dutch IST, ~100 people) was pretty well organised and disciplined, so we didn't immediately feel the need to start trashing stores and stuff. Some less organised activists who have quite another tactic really were hugely angered and went beserk against everything that smelled faintly of capital.
I'm not going to blame them for that, It's the NATO, their coward teargas attacks, and the number of wounded they made. Some comrades got pretty bad hit, one got a concussion granade on her face (lots of blood, loss of ear function), a medic got badly hit on his leg, another comrade got hit twice with lots of blood spilling; this is what really gets people upset.
Before the larger group of mainly SEK, SWP and NPA turned up I almost had given up hope...When you arrives, I felt we we're going to get through the bastards. The feeling I got then I'll never forget, thanks for that!!
Strassbourg, liberté!
O and one very important point to make to people who say we're the voilent: Before the clashes, at 9 am we went to the police's fence, kindly asking to let us through, to the LEGAL demonstration. They wouldn't talk to us, let alone let us through.
This makes very clearly who's who and which side started the violence.
It has been shown on Dutch national TV, here's the cut:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K...h?
v=KkLlnSb0ATY
Well done for hightlighting this. Here in France the whole elite circus just didn't want to hear about the marchers. A quick focus on a burning hotel and that was that.
I do have do disagree a bit with all the talk about denouncing the black bloc. Whilst I don't think they were particularly good reasons for burning the hotel I think we need to defend what happened to some extent if we just denounce them then we make the heavy handed police tactics look justified. The counter punch article is terrible for this. I don't think the demo was a fiasco admittedly the route was terrible and we didn't get anywhere. The having to fight our way over a bridge to a rally then find we were meant to go back over the same bridge. I thought we worked quite well with the black bloc when trying to get over that bridge we stood our ground to stop people retreating to far when gassed and they ran back and forward harrasing police lines.
The only people who really need a bit of criticism on our side were the organisers (or whoever was a front of march) for not making us stop the try and fight through the police lines instead letting us march pointlessly through an abandoned industrial estate. The NPA did briefly try to instigate a confrontation on second bridge but it was the first bridge that we stood a chance to getting over.
Andrew Murray at the rally was really angry
not only at the police
See Andrew speak here
http://
www.manchesterstopwar.org...strasbourg.html
a speaker from Hizbollah due to speak at the Stop the War workshop on Friday morning was banned from speaking - by the counter conference organisers
Andrew said
We have come here in the face of harassment from the police in Britain and in France. We are representing the millions of people who have marched in London over the last six or seven years against the aggression in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, Israel’s slaughter in Gaza, and also we marched in solidarity with our Muslim brothers and sisters who are targets of the war on terror.
Our main demand today is simple: to the NATO leaders it is get out of Afghanistan!
The NATO occupation of Afghanistan is supporting a government of corrupt drug dealers, which last week legalized rape. This is not a government, which we should be supporting, but a government, which should be overthrown. NATO is now supporting slaughter and possibly war in Pakistan.
Secondly we are demonstrating today not just against the institution of NATO, but also against the policy of Imperialism, which has laid waste to Afghanistan and Iraq, and lies behind the slaughter in Gaza.
This tremendous demonstration today of is a demonstration of Europeans against Nato. But let us not forget that the victims of that aggression do not lie in Europe but in the Middle East and South Asia. Our common humanity means we must extend the hand of sympathy and solidarity to those who are suffering from NATO’s policy of aggression at the hands of imperialism, but not only to those who are suffering but to those who are exercising their right to resist that policy.
Only in unity, north and south, east and West, European and middle Eastern will we defeat the NATO
Also the rally was quite hilarious, some French guy kept telling people there where problems but they were being sorted and that lots of comrades were on there way so we didn't need to worry. Then Bianca Jagger denouncing the crowd for being violent telling us all Obama is great and he is about to get rid of nuclear weapons just before we were gassed. Then has the crazy French man telling us to move to the left of the stage which everyone was doing as there was gas on the right.
'friendly lefty' - the Black Block are nuts, and are fucking up our protests. There is nothing in Johnstone's article that could possibly give the police comfort. The whole basis of the attack on the Black Block is that they assist the police, not that anything they do justifies police repression. If you set fire to a fucking hotel and destroy working class houses, you give the police ample reason to do anything they like. That's the problem with the Black Block (apart from the possibility that they might end up killing citizens for nowt).
Critism of the so called 'black block' is understandable
young people in black throw rocks at the police - then retreat into our contingent - and the police tear gas us all
but we should not loose site of the bigger picture, or the context
Sakozy said there would be no protests allowed in Strasbourg
but when Obama left the NATO conference plumes of smoke were rising over Strasbourg
Sarkozy could not stop the European peace movement from marching against NATO
despite 15,000 military police
in London at the G20 there was the banks like the RBS to trash
in Strasbourg it was a disused border post, a post office and the hotel
those dressed in Black were French youth who have no voice in France, and have been disowned by the (old) French left
clearly they want to 'take the head of of capitalism' and are part of the resistance
Greek youth and French youth in the cities have recently rioted with justification and support from many
Sarkozy is fearful of a merging of workers in France striking against the bankers and French youth who are prepared to riot agianst the banks and the war
that is why he sent so many French troops to occupy Strasbourg
the biggest threat for French 'security' lies within from the Taliban in Afghanistan
so Sarkozy has pledged only 150 military police for Afghanistan to train the Afghan police (persumably in how to police demonstrations and build a red zone)
local Strasbourg people were angry
residents who displayed anti NATO flags were visited by police, there banners confiscated and they were put on a list
a week of helicopters overhead, and identity checks drove many people out of town
the official old left who 'organised' the protests were prepared to accept an out of town route
they wanted to march us away from Strasbourg into the forest
the NPA provided an anti capitalist lead on the day, jointly leading the march to confront police lines
the racist Tory Sarkozy failed to silence us, the European anti war and anti capitalist movement had a good showing in Strasbourg
a great day out
I was there too. Thanks for this, Futurecast.
All the criticisms of the black bloc are valid. Whoever said they are elitist is right on the mark, in addition to which they are cowardly enough to hide amongst a peaceful demo including trade unions, hippies and families after kicking off against the police.
However, in all the deserved slagging-off, we should be clear about two things:
1/ they have the wrong strategy, BUT they are on the right side.
2/ not only did the actions of the police make the violence inevitable, but the police had agents infiltrating the black block. I saw this with my own eyes. Of course, that it is so easy for the police to play them just underlines how moronic their strategy is, but never mind.
I also recommend Mark's report on the MAnc SWP website http://manchesterswp.wordpress.c...ourg-2/
#respond
Futurecast, it was shown on ITV News last night (7th April).
Just listened to Andrew Murray's speech, which is angry and eloquent - he did our movement proud. Stop the War has always benefitted greatly from having a strong anti-imperialist core while maintaining genuine breadth. The speech captures that extremely well.
Oh, and I'm with lenin on the issue of the Black Block - they have nothing to offer, I'm afraid. Their whole modus operandi is anti-democratic and sectarian.
There is a very real threat that if the rev left focuses on the black bloc kids the movement will end up setting up a false counterposition between "bad" and "good" protesters.
Peaceful protest is a tactic, nothing more. In the right circumstances collective direct action against the state is an entirely legitimate, and necessary, tactic. I'd imagine that most readers of this blog would agree with this.
But the critique of the black block sometimes seems to lose this point. Sides are drawn, and peaceful protest vs violent protest becomes the argument. This does us no favours. There are times we will want to take the fight straight back to the cops and we'll want to do it properly. Recent events in Greece are a good example.
I am well aware that the actions of a couple of hundred are not the same as the street rebellion of a couple of thousand. But the way the argument is sometimes put it seems there is the risk that others are setting themselves up to confuse the two.
I'm writing this from Australia, so have no idea how you Europeans can move past this tactically. But i do know this - for every person who may never go to another demo because of the dramas at Strasbourg there is another who saw demonstrators fighting the cops on TV and felt empowered, who had a moment of knowing that resistance (however misguided) is possible. Reaching out to them requires more than blaming the deeply flawed actions of the anarchists.
jimc
Sorry
I missed a word out - should have said
the biggest threat for French 'security' lies within NOT from the Taliban in Afghanistan
Mark
Lenin
did you really mean to say
'the Black Block are nuts, and are fucking up our protests'
was it not their protest too
we are not talking of a few on teh fringes
they were a in large number
should those who smashed banks and Starbucks in London at the G20 also be considered 'nuts' ?
I don't accept that the Black Block are our allies. They are a sectarian organisation riddled with secret police (and fascists if the stories about Genoa are anything to go by), and wherever they appear, they help destroy protests which they have done nothing to organise or build. I would personally have them kneecapped for this sort of thing.
Sorry comrades, but even as one who spent much of Saturday fuming about the black block bastards and their idiocy, I have to agree with Jim C's point. Mark's too.
The reason we do not have the same strategy as the black bloc is that we ask ourselves, "what can we do that will make the most difference towards making a better world". For that same reason, we do not now focus on condemning the violent extremists of our side. We must legitimise, not condemn, the idea of violent anger against the system if we are to have any hope of giving it a more constructive direction.
Sorry to all those who were there, 'cos this hurts me as much as it hurts you, but we have to be defending the black block's right to violence even as we criticise their use of it.
For that same reason, we do not now focus on condemning the violent extremists of our side. We must legitimise, not condemn, the idea of violent anger against the system if we are to have any hope of giving it a more constructive direction.
There is a slippage of language going on here. No one has yet said we should 'focus' on condeming 'violent extremists of our side' (assuming they are 'of our side'). What has been said is that we cannot possibly give them a free pass or pretend that their behaviour wasn't destructive.
Lenin you are right when you say
The black block 'are a sectarian organisation riddled with secret police'
but there were hundreds of French youth in black throwing rocks at the police
this has a certain appeal
either we build a movement and have a political relationship with these youth or other forces will
in France this is a challenge the NPA must face
looks like we will in Britain too
there were 2 anti war protests at the G20 in London
it would have been better if we had joined forces ?
those who followed the militant lead of the so called 'black block' in Strasbourg are indeed our allies
or
Do you agree with the lecture from Diana from Counterpunch when she says
'Black Block militants, whatever their age, should grow up and realize that to combat unjust powers must be done first of all with thoughts, reasoning, facts and arguments'
No one has yet said we should 'focus' on condeming 'violent extremists of our side' (assuming they are 'of our side')
THey are not on our side in that they genuinely help us or wish to support us. They are on our side in that for those looking for a way to resist capitalism, they provide what looks like an alternative. Just like reformists, for that matter. They are not of our side in that they will consistently sell out and demobilise the workers, they are of our side in that many workers look to them for leadership. We must be for and against them.
Since getting back, I have already been both defending and condemning the black block in different conversations, depending on the context and the interlocutor. I wholeheartedly agree that "we cannot possibly give them a free pass or pretend that their behaviour wasn't destructive". But we must also be careful (like Jim says) not to transform peaceful protest from a tactic to a shibboleth and (like Mark says) not to cut ourselves off from all those who look more to the black block for leadership than to revolutionaries.
THey are not on our side in that they genuinely help us or wish to support us. They are on our side in that...
This should of course read:
They are not on our side, in that they do not genuinely help us or wish to support us. They are on our side in that...
Nobody is suggesting that our main priority should be condemning the Black Block. They are clearly not the enemy in the way NATO are - or, for that matter, the forces of the French state in the form of the police.
However, the movement necessarily has to distance itself utterly from them - their actions, politics and what they represent. They aren't part of any wider movement, but stand aloof and pursue their own actions regardless of anyone else. They are profoundly anti-democratic in the way they operate, and in effect make it more difficult for thousands of sane protestors to organise effectively.
It isn't about polarising people between 'peaceful' and 'violent' - that is a false dichotomy. But there is a massive difference between small groups of street fighters - a self-selecting vanguard - wreaking purposeless havoc and, by contrast, the organised collective force of a mass movement on the streets.
Crucially, the former phenomenon makes the latter much harder to make a reality. It undermines the wider movement, alienates many people who could potentially become active particpants, and gives the state an excuse to clamp down on dissent.
We should not hesitate in condemning the totally misguided strategy and actions of the Black Block, while nonetheless remembering who the main enemy is.
Well offcourse the Black Block didn't organise that much, that's in the nature of their (dis)organisation. But still, from a relatively small country as Holland more Black Blockers came to Rostock then did SWP'ers fom a large country as Great Brittain, right? So we need to realize what really is our 'bargaining position' in this, it's not like we have the overwhelming majority of the organised people.
So I think we have to accept the fact that they're there at the anti-globalist protests. Criticising them should be done on a level compared other groups we fight along with, not on a level like criticising the G8, NATO etc.
More importantly, if we want to break the influence of the Black Block on demonstrations, it means bringing in more people ourselves and change the balance of forces within the demonstration. That's what really changes these demonstrations, not sectarian shouting within the movement.
And respect to Andrew Murray for having made the only speech worth listening to.
"the NPA is the new united left party in French that socialists throughout Europe have been dampening their underwear with in excitement"
About, I hope...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...don/
7988828.stm
This is on the front page of UK BBC news. About time as well.
"the NPA is the new united left party in French that socialists throughout Europe have been dampening their underwear with in excitement"
About, I hope...
Ah... yes. But you see that and all the other mistakes are because of a medical condition, you see? :)
Incidentally thanks to lenin for offering a guest post.
Nobody is suggesting that our main priority should be condemning the Black Block. They are clearly not the enemy in the way NATO are - or, for that matter, the forces of the French state in the form of the police.
However, the movement necessarily has to distance itself utterly from them - their actions, politics and what they represent. They aren't part of any wider movement, but stand aloof and pursue their own actions regardless of anyone else. They are profoundly anti-democratic in the way they operate, and in effect make it more difficult for thousands of sane protestors to organise effectively.
It isn't about polarising people between 'peaceful' and 'violent' - that is a false dichotomy. But there is a massive difference between small groups of street fighters - a self-selecting vanguard - wreaking purposeless havoc and, by contrast, the organised collective force of a mass movement on the streets.
Crucially, the former phenomenon makes the latter much harder to make a reality. It undermines the wider movement, alienates many people who could potentially become active particpants, and gives the state an excuse to clamp down on dissent.
We should not hesitate in condemning the totally misguided strategy and actions of the Black Block, while nonetheless remembering who the main enemy is.
Alex Snowdon | Homepage | 8 Apr, 01:25 | #
Have to say this was perfectly put.
Pictures of the demo from Manchester SWP's website:
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/
ad...ATOProtest2009#
Oh gee Matt Ive never heard that before! In fact Ive heard all you've had to say before. I was told that after Enron the financial system had been fixed and we need have no more worries. You think that a kinder capitalism will just spring forth? talk about delusions. Capitalism's a crisis every day whether boom or bust, in poverty, hunger and environmental degredation. The idea that a system based on profit will eventually be able to deal with all those problems, well hey thats fiction but not necessarily of the scientific variety.
Futurecast, really enjoyed reading the post, gave a good flavour of what was happening.
Sounds like our dutch comrades had a lot to deal with and I do agree with sjerp about the black block.
I have both been defending and wholly criticizing them too, very difficult I know but when people fight back against the system they do it in all sorts of ways, not just in ways that will be the best, this can be learned through experience and passing on the ideas (strategy) to those with an ear to hear.
Those that are hell bent on destruction and self destruction should be distanced from, rapidly.
Matt asked what is a viable alternative to capitalism. I think the answer lies in democratic workers control and socialist planning of the world economy, socialism in one country is not the full picture of what can be achieved.
An Alternative View:
http://www.nettime.org/Lists-Arc...4/
msg00011.html
The problem with condemning the black bloc is that it leads to the argument the police wouldn't have attacked us so much if it hadn't been for the bloc. We were more or less at the front of the march when we first got tear gassed so I don't think this is a valid point. As someone said above the answer is to build are ranks so they are irrelevant not to denounce them.
The real problem with the demo was the lack of a french stop the war movement all the different groups were marching in blocks with little space for non aligned activists to join in. Stop the war was the only group to produce placards for instance no French/ German groups had produced any that I saw.
Some good videos : http://www.npa2009.org/content/d...n-de-
strasbourg
http://otan-strasbourg.dna.fr/?L...anifestation-
en
I was there too, and I want to add an element which goes some way towards explaining a particular lack of patience with the Black Bloc among other participants : as the demo was making its way through the industrial estate, two railway wagons were dragged by Black bloc members, blocking the road behind the demo, then a barricade was erected a bit further on behind the demo.
Silly but harmless, I thought, until it emerged the demo was blocked by police at the front and dutifully teargassed. There was at that point a real possibility of serious harm being done, of panic, stampedes, etc.
We had to retreat - thankfully in orderly fashion, thanks to great solidarity and calm being shown in the NPA part of the demo.
But before reaching safety we found first the barricade (we pleaded with the black bloc to tear it down, then had to do it ourselves), a cordon of police (more teargas), then the wagons, then another police cordon....
I think by now everyone can see why a number of us tought the BB (or that part of the BB) were on this occasion objective allies of the police !
For anyone interested here's an excellent map of the events.
Friendly lefty : "Stop the war was the only group to produce placards for instance no French/ German groups had produced any that I saw."
No, no, the NPA produced lots of placards (for once !), as can be seen from the videos. Here's another one : http://www.dailymotion.com/searc...ommet-de-
l_news
And another, with some of Andrew Murray's excellent speech : http://www.dailymotion.com/video...-lotan-
str_news
Some comments on the demo from Germany.
Firstly, as far as I know, the Black Bloc participants on the demo were mainly from Germany, not France (though it may well have been the case that many French youth joined their block). They are anti-capitalists, mad at the system, and most of them are definitely NOT police (though I certainly wouldn't rule out the involvement of police infiltrators).
Second, it is wrong to talk of the Black Bloc as a homogenous group. From people who were there when the Black Bloc left the main demo (I was still blocked behind police lines at the time), there were 5,000 of them. This was a variety of people who'd soent the previous day or 2 being regularly controlled by the police (including attacks on the camp with rubber bullets and tear gas). We were in the middle of nowhere and surrounded by police, with no chance of demonstrating anywhere near Strasbourg. Of course many militant youth (including some that I know who have spent lots of energy in Berlin mobilising for the demo the demo) joined in as well.
While it is true that John Rees did (correctly) say that the Hotel Ibis was not a key centre of imperialism and that it is strategical mistake to attack bus stops in working class areas, this came after a lengthy introduction explaining why we shouldn't let our movement be split. This introduction was necessary, and he was just about the first person on the podium who didn't start by counterposing the "good" peace activists from the "bad" anarchists.
In other words, with the amount of hostility aimed from the right-wing media at the Black Bloc, our first task is to emphasize the unity between the kids who want to rip off the head of capitalism with the other protestors. Only then, as John Rees said, can we win these kids for a better strategy.
Having said all this (and only having said all this), there are serious criticisms one can make of the strategy. Not least the stoning of CRS vans when the demonstration was coming from behind these vans. We nearly got stoned by our own side - and I saw a couple of nasty injuries from people who weren't so quick.
Added to this, I was demonstration with a couple of friends from Strasbourg, who left the demo early because they felt unsafe. They said that their experience of the demonstration led them to be less likely to attend the next (though, to be fair, they then spent the whole evening on the phone organising a meeting with as many activists as possible to discuss how to go forward, and they wanted to invite people from the Black Bloc as well).
Finally a couple of words about the behaviour of the police. The French activists that I've talked to say that the police gave the Black Block carte blanche to go wherever they wanted and didn't try to stop any of the buildings burning. What is definitely true is that a fire engine from Kehl, just across the border was stopped by the police and not allowed near any of the buildings, which were - as far as I know - just left to burn. Which seems to suggest that the police were more concerned with a few good pictures for the tv than in protecting the hotel, chemists, etc.
A final pint about the lack of placards from French and German organisations. Its already been said that the NPA had placards. There were also plenty of placards and flags from die LINKE in Germany. The trouble was that 7,000 demonstrators were stuck on the wrong side of the border and weren't let over the Europa bridge. The Germans on the demo were those who travelled a day or 2 early, most of whom didn't bring their own placards with them.
ok, that's enough for now.
Phil, Berlin
Some of the most valuable contributions I heard came from John Rees who said that he didn’t realise that the Hotel Ibis was one of the top ten imperial sites in the world, or that burning homes in working class areas of Strasbourg helps fight imperialism in anyway whatsoever.
That wasn't all he said: he laid into those (especially amongst the organisers) who were quicker to condemn the actions of a few (rightly) pissed off kids than the 50,000 police defending murderers.
Black Block, as far as could be told, came mostly from Germany - and Southern Germany, at that, young men from small villages and towns with no real left presence who - given no other visible option - think that a balaclava, a hoody and a rock alone can change the world.
The reason the Black Block could dominate proceedings in the way they did was principally down to the weakness of the French organisers - there is a lack of strong, united and radical antiwar movement in France in the way there is in Britain. Because it was not possible to speak with one voice and remain committed to the most militant, mass protest possible, the police were able to force demonstrators to scatter to assigned meeting points: it was, for example, 7km from the campsite to the main demo point on Saturday, and that demo point was a good 3km from the city centre.
All good reasons why something like Stop the War is so vital in these circumstance - to say nothing of the breadth of support it can muster; Strasbourg has, I believe, one of the largest Kurdish communities in France: but there were very, very few local Kurds on the demo, and as far as could be told hardly any French Arabs.
It's not necessarily the case that major struggles in the economic sphere change smoothly and easily into struggles elsewhere - France having 3m on the streets to defend their working conditions does not mean that hundreds of thousands protest against NATO. You need an organisation to join the dots between these things.
Further debate was had in a British caucus on the lessons and mistakes of the protest by the organisers, as well as improvements to be made for STWC’s actions also.
It was an IST/SWP caucus, and there was some sharp criticism of our own errors on the day - made in conditions of general disorganisation, so more understandable. Plenty of lessons to be learned, such as the need to caucus effectively before demos like this, and the need to maintain as far as possible the unity of the anti-war movement - the split that emerged between IST contingent and StWC banner enabled a large group of Black Block to assemble inbetween the two, dragging the police behind them and weakening the whole British contingent.
The actions of comrades in getting out of a very sticky situation - trapped by the side of railway line, near the docks - were a model of how revolutionaries should behave in these situations: calm, disciplined, and political.
“I would personally have them kneecapped for this sort of thing.”
For someone so intelligent and progressive to come out with this is a bit disturbing and very much disappointing. I’m guessing that you meant it in a jokey sort of way but it’s reminiscent of the persecution of those who were against the ‘party line’. The BB’s tactics are a spontaneous reaction to violence of the state. It may be counterproductive to actively engage in battles with the police but to alienate these ‘fringe elements’ by condemning them outright is not going to improve the solidarity and strength of the protests.
I’m only a young fella but I think (it just seems common sense to me...) that if future protests are to be effective and a catalyst for real change, cooperation and organising with people like those in the BB will have to take place.
I’m guessing that you meant it in a jokey sort of way but it’s reminiscent of the persecution of those who were against the ‘party line’.
Well, quite. It's a daily Kronstadt around here - hadn't you heard?
Oh right, that explains it then.
Some people have pointed out some more information about John Rees' talk. I don't want to misrepresent what anyone has said, so it should probably read:
Some of the most valuable contributions I heard came from John Rees who said that he didn’t realise that the Hotel Ibis was one of the top ten imperial sites in the world, or that burning homes in working class areas of Strasbourg helps fight imperialism in anyway whatsoever. However he also stressed the danger of dividing the movement on this basis.
Lenin's Tomb - Where Every Day is Kronstadt Day
Happy Kronstadt Day to All!
Cheers, Futurecast - it'd be good to add that to the post, though - the really important point to John's speech was that he was sharply opposing himself to earlier speakers who condemned the Black Block out of hand.
(He was cheered to the rafters by half the audience, and greeted with silence by the other half.)
Small point - how do you co-operate with a group whose tactics are spontaneous?
It was an IST/SWP caucus, and there was some sharp criticism of our own errors on the day - made in conditions of general disorganisation, so more understandable. Plenty of lessons to be learned, such as the need to caucus effectively before demos like this, and the need to maintain as far as possible the unity of the anti-war movement - the split that emerged between IST contingent and StWC banner enabled a large group of Black Block to assemble inbetween the two, dragging the police behind them and weakening the whole British contingent.
The actions of comrades in getting out of a very sticky situation - trapped by the side of railway line, near the docks - were a model of how revolutionaries should behave in these situations: calm, disciplined, and political.
Yes thinking back now it was officially an SWP caucus but there were contributions and attendance from people who were not in the SWP. Sloppy writing on my part, perhaps I should have said an SWP caucus attended by some non-SWPers as well.
There was indeed a sharp debate. On tactics, planning, caucusing, discussion, STWC's relation to anti-capitalism, black block etc. There is an upcoming STWC AGM where these discussions must be continued.
However we cannot allow important issues that affect all of us to be reduced to evidence for preconceived tapestry-analysis about where STWC and everything is going etc. People are totally free to have these views and I respect them for it as long as they argue them respectively.
I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest a discussion or debate might not have a massive inherent tendency or meaning behind it. But engaging with discussion and debate in this way strengthens, polishes and refreshes the movement (which is awesome).
How is this?
Some of the most valuable contributions I heard came from John Rees who said that he didn’t realise that the Hotel Ibis was one of the top ten imperial sites in the world, or that burning homes in working class areas of Strasbourg helps fight imperialism in anyway whatsoever. However much of his talk also stressed the danger of dividing the movement on this basis. This met mixed reaction amongst the floor.
Collective blogging, SIA (Socialism in Action)
Fuck yes.
Spot on Futurecast. Dialogue with all parts of the movement is the key. Who knows, the BB might even be put to good use and play an effective role. If one were to imagine the movement continuing to develop, in a few years there could be a solid anti-capitalist network built on effective cooperation and organisation. Otherwise, it could be like Barcelona in May 1937 all over again – bit of an exaggeration but ye know what I mean ;)
Can I ask for a bit more detail about the buildings that were burnt - the "hotels and houses"?
Most of the reporting seems to focus on the hotel Ibis, and then mention a few small service buildings, but I haven't found any reference to residential houses being burnt. I'd want to be clear on that.
Also, as people have said, 'the black bloc' is not a single homogenous group, and certainly not identical with 'anarchists' in general.
"I don't accept that the Black Block are our allies. They are a sectarian organisation"
Hombre, Black Bloc-ing is a TACTIC, not an organisation. It happens to be one that's a lot bigger among anti-militarists on the continent than peace protesters in the UK. Equally, continental cops gas, they don't kettle.
Whatever the specifics of Strasbourg, that's the way it is there.
Incidentally I should make clear, my view is that we cannot feel any insecurity about condemning the BB's tactics. I think we need to build relations with them, but only so we can change their tactics.
That might sound monopolistic, but if we cannot get them to behave sensibly I don't see why we should call them our allies, their tactics damage the movement, working class people and themselves. They may have a common enemy with us but this is not the best basis for alliance.
Also:
I think there is a massive need to further debate the strategy of the Black Block/hard line anarchists as well as the relations between us, as well as the discussion on violence, the masses, the state etc
Marxism is coming up soon may be a good place to continue this discussion. I think it's a bit late to suggest this to the organisers (Does Marxism take suggestions? I'm assuming it would). But if there are any meetings around this subject some of us should try and kick off a discussion there as I think it concerns us all, especially while protesting in continental Europe.
Also the fact that not all anarchists are quite so spectacularly destructive is a very good point.
Thousands were masked up in the anarchist tradition on the demo, but only tens committed arson/smashing of property. Why build solidarity with such a small and elitist caste? But as for building links with decent anarchists/autonomists - yes absolutely necessary and I think everyone wants this.
And of course the possibility of police agent-provocateurism can neither be ruled out nor entirely accepted.
Sorry I have no idea why I wrote 'caste'. I meant 'flotsam'.
This French blog by a friend of mine who teaches at the University of Paris (St Denis) has a lot of videos of the Strasbourg events, as well as masses of information about contemporary riots : http://berthoalain.wordpress.com...009-les-videos/
Matt, workers and the oppressed emancipate themselves through their own actions, all history is the act of the working class, (sorry can't carry on debating with you I am tired and off to bed). It reminds me of a famous postcard from the 1980's, a group of students debating ... capitalism, socialism, capitalism, socialism,... zzzzzz!
just remembered the correct quote from the communist manifesto goes something like " all hitherto existing history is the history of class struggle." (Marx and Engles). Now I am going to bed.
Matt you really are a troublesome troll aren't you? If someone doesn't feel like giving you the polemical time of day, try taking a hobby rather than attacking them for keeping regular hours.
How do you envisage the workers taking control? Who should conduct the socialist world planning? Given that socialist economic planning has failed in the past what steps do you propose to ensure it doesn't fail again? Is there to be a loyal opposition or is dissent to be forbidden? Are individuals able to own private property? If so how much?
All of these questions are debated continually within socialist materials, see socialist worker/socialist review/ISJ/Marxism (See Resistance-mp3 on google) from the SWP but they are not the only socialists to discuss these questions at length.
Incidentally I don't think you can possibly lock down 100% of how socialism should work. You need such a decision making process to come from the masses themselves.
'These ideas have existed for over a century without catching on' well what a decisive sweep there! Actually at times socialism has been very popular, violent repression, propaganda and that from the capitalist side not to mention those claiming to be socialists betraying the cause have all taken their toll. You try to bring us to task matt for not becoming a major force on the back of an economic crisis that has been officially going on for less then a year! A crisis of which we probably havent seen the worse of. Do you think all the radicalism of the Great Depression sprung up in less then a year? Thats it though matt, the quote wasn't irrelevant at all, capitalism is plagued by crisis, class struggle though it may wane for a time will never really abate.
Alderson Warm-Fork :
Can I ask for a bit more detail about the buildings that were burnt - the "hotels and houses"?
There was also a disused old customs office and, most annoyingly for the local people, the only pharmacy in the area.
There are now certain doubts being raised about where the hotel fire came from.
Here's a beautiful series of pictures following the demo. You can see the police assaulting the extremely mellow (not to say aging) Mouvement de la Paix....
Futurecast -
However we cannot allow important issues that affect all of us to be reduced to evidence for preconceived tapestry-analysis about where STWC and everything is going etc.
Erm what? Sorry, just don't understand what you mean here.
(Well... I'd say Rees met a very good reaction from much/most of the floor; I'd clarify the political division here - the way it's written seems like there was great dissent, when in fact he was cheered to the rafters.)
Equally, continental cops gas, they don't kettle.
One reaction to the (potential, but I suspect likely) downgrading of the "kettle" may well be a request from the cops for greater powers to use tear gas as a substitute.
Sure it'd take some retraining - although I understand TSG and similar units already know how to use the stuff - but the complete and utter consternation and disarray it'd cause amongst UK protestors unused to it would be very much worthwhile.
Apologies for implying houses if I was mistaken. It came somewhat from the PCF: who warned against burning working class houses as we waited at the final blockade.
From this point we could see a building in the distance, I suppose it could have been a pharmacy but it looked identical to the houses and apartments in the area. Even if it had a pharmacy on the ground there must have been apartments in the higher levels of the building as it was so tall and looked like apartments. Also it was the higher section of the building that was burning.
Regardless:
la confusion est moi
However we cannot allow important issues that affect all of us to be reduced to evidence for preconceived tapestry-analysis about where STWC and everything is going etc.
Erm what? Sorry, just don't understand what you mean here.
(Well... I'd say Rees met a very good reaction from much/most of the floor; I'd clarify the political division here - the way it's written seems like there was great dissent, when in fact he was cheered to the rafters.)
Juvenile Dwarf | 9 Apr, 12:56 | #
Must be not expressing myself very clearly. I was talking about the debates within STWC. While I have some tactical disagreements with STWC (which I find an entirely healthy development indeed) I don't have much time for the belief in ultra-complex theories as to why I have some disagreements (as some comrades do - fair enough to them though). I wasn't talking at all about the Conf with John Rees but I was talking about the caucus outside.
Phew!
John Rees' was cheered very strongly at several points throughout his speech at the conf. It really was a very good speech. *dancing salute*
Thanks for that re-emphasis, Futurecast, on the fact that the Black Bloc, however much we want unity, is actively dividing the movement through its tactics. Some people here seem to be ignoring this fact, that the sectarian attitudes towards the Black Bloc have emerged in reaction from the Black Bloc's tactics.
As much as we all want to explain why the Black Bloc acts the way it does, the fact is, we still have to deal with the actions they take. We're not talking about an abstract phenomenon. It's very concrete and has a very real and often very negative impact on the task of building social movements as well as the immediate tasks of protecting people from harm during demonstrations.
Did anyone get John Rees' speech on Youtube or audio?
I very much agree with you Doug.
have to say summarizing John Rees' seems to be a dangerous task if you want to remain attached to your testicles - I would really like it if someone could find it audio/video/text as I have not been able to.
Here is Rees' speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9...h?v=9RVo4Gw-
UGc
Worth posting on the blog, I think.
Yes.
"Also the fact that not all anarchists are quite so spectacularly destructive is a very good point.
Thousands were masked up in the anarchist tradition on the demo, but only tens committed arson/smashing of property. Why build solidarity with such a small and elitist caste? But as for building links with decent anarchists/autonomists - yes absolutely necessary and I think everyone wants this.
And of course the possibility of police agent-provocateurism can neither be ruled out nor entirely accepted."
This.
With the addition that smashing up property and attacking the police is completely understandable, and cannot be condemned in principle. It's just fucked up tactics, [b]most of the time[/b]. I for one cannot condemn the black block attacking the police on the Europe Bridge. After having been gassed throughout the day (same group as sjerp), I felt like starting throwing rocks as well (tho decided not to) when they closed us in and tried to keep us where we were.
And to counter all the frankly hysterical condemnations I'll thrown in a [b]long live the black block![/b]
Contrary to apparently mainstream cliffite opinion, not the only people engaging in property destruction/attacking the police are 'crazy anarchists'. In fact, it even attracts some people who would not otherwise have radicalised by the sheer anger and impact it represents.
From a marxist perspective, it's simply an extremely direct but problematic form of fighting alienation. We build this world around us, but we do not decide what we build, under what relations, and in return we get a fucked up wage and live in what we have not chosen to build. Smashing property smashes the symbols of your alienation, your alienation visible in everyday life. Same goes for smashing the police.
It is problematic however since even though its a radical attack on alienation (therefore liberating), it [i]alienates others[/i] from yourself/ves.
The point is, however flawed its tactics often may be, if we fail to relate to these things, [b]we[/b] will be the ones alienated from the masses.
I appreciate your opinions Dylan but I can't say I agree with that much at all.
Here's a video of the pharmacy fire. As can be clearly seen it's in a residential block.
Interestingly, during the fire, the locals are heard saying the firefighters are "not allowed to come".
The people from the area have since also been demonstrating as can be seen from the video they had the support of the CGT, and a few marchers have peace flags around their shoulders, one of the banners says "Taken hostage sacrificed NATO" (doesn't make grammatical sense in French either, but I think we can understand the sentiment) - generally their reaction seems to have been to blame the police for spending three days occupying their street and then suddenly disappearing just before the degradations.
Very interesting links, ilestre. Thanks.
DEMOS THIS SATURDAY (TOMOROW)
Justice for ian tomlinson - Assemble bethnal green police station 11:00am - march to bank.
Also - Justice for tamil people - embankment station 1pm march to hyde park corner.
Also - Support the worker's occupation at Basildon. Meet 11am outside Towngate Theatre, Basildon Town Centre...
@Futurecast
If i thought you already agreed with me i wouldnt have posted anything. Why do you disagree?
The black block is an expression of rage, and were joined in strassbourg by some other very angry people. Angry at what? Well, most simply put, life as it is right now. So they attack what represents the current conditions of life. It makes alot of sense, and rioting is not just something done by the black block as can be seen thousands of time in history, including recent history (the banlieues spring to mind, completely devoid from any black block influence). That doesn't mean we should support the tactic of rioting (in most cases), but we should support the rightful anger which is its cause.
If the IST fails to relate to these kinds of things by branding rioters as either crazed anarchists or youngsters looking for the next adrenaline rush, we will alienate many looking to change the conditions under which we live our lives - and by doing so the IST might either become completely irrelevant or hamper the struggle towards revolution. Both options aren't very appealing.
@ friendly leftie
Stop the war was the only group to produce placards for instance no French/German groups had produced any that I saw.
DIE LINKE had produced placards for the demo - and there were a lot at the rally. However because the rally had to be abandoned in a hurry when the cops started shooting tear gas into the crowd the placards weren't distributed and were simply left behind.
@ ilestre
As can be clearly seen it's in a residential block.
The block that burned was a hotel, not a residential block.
On a more general level, the Black Bloc in Germany are the lineal descendants of the Sponti wing of the APO, the extra-parliamentary opposition. Their ability to achieve relative hegemony among young militant anti-fascists in Germany has to be attributed to the failure of the Marxist revolutionary left that emerged from the APO.
Simply denouncing them as "police infiltrators" isn't going to be any help in winning the young militants they influence to a more productive strategy. It was also interesting to note that many militant young men from the banlieus joined in the battles between the Black Bloc and the police - indeed I got the impression that they were much more "effective" street fighters.
Nevertheless, I do think that for future demos it is necessary to develop a strategy to cope with the activity of the Black Bloc and to protect the bulk of the demonstrators from police attacks that result from their activities. Much stricter stewarding may be necessary, but given the situation that developed after the cops attacked the rally, I'm not certain that it would have made a great difference in Strasbourg last Saturday afternoon.
The key thing that we have to remember is that the main enemy was the forces of state repression, which from the word go were implementing a confrontation strategy - even where the Black Bloc wasn't present.
I was present at the university when the attempt was made to march on the Red Zone. There were hardly any people the that could be described as members of the Black Bloc, the demonstrators were mainly students and members of pacifist organisations. Nevertheless the police made no attempt to block the route, they simply tear-gassed the demonstrators without warning as soon as they moved.
People I know who participated in the peace camps - again not members of the Black Bloc - reported constant police harassment. So as I said, the main enemy is the police, regardless of any criticisms we may have of the dangerous strategy of the Black Bloc.
@eoc : The block that burned was a hotel, not a residential block.
I was talking of the pharmacy, not the hotel. A pharmacy also burned, and it was in a residential block, although as far as I know the block itself didn't burn, just the pharmacy.
"Nevertheless, I do think that for future demos it is necessary to develop a strategy to cope with the activity of the Black Bloc and to protect the bulk of the demonstrators from police attacks that result from their activities. Much stricter stewarding may be necessary, but given the situation that developed after the cops attacked the rally, I'm not certain that it would have made a great difference in Strasbourg last Saturday afternoon."
The last thing we need is stricter stewarding, what the revolutionary left needs to do in most places (England, France, Germany, Greece) where class struggle is resurfacing is train their members in how to cope with the police, and how to get your fellow protester to do the same. We need to show that going arm in arm and if necessary smashing the police line in such a way, is a million times more effective than throwing a few stones.
Also, the whole "we need stewards cuz there is some dangerous little group making life hard for everyone" reminds me a little too much of the attitude of the French Communist Party in '68.
(most of) the rioting in strasbourg wasnt wrong because it was rioting, it was wrong because rioting is premature at this point in time (most of the time).
We had a problem in Ottawa for a while, especially from 2001-2004, with anarchists who were, in essence, our local Black Bloc. They'd show up at peaceful marches organized by the main peace and anti-globalization groups and proceed to incite the cops by throwing stuff at them, smash up private property (McDonald's, Starbucks, etc) and often try to split our marches by deceiving a bunch of people down other routes to confront police. On top of all this, they'd never show up at the organizing meetings for such demos and then accuse everyone else of being "authoritarian" and "anti-democratic" when people refused to work with them and kicked them out of the organizing meetings that they did show up to.
Their tactics are deliberate. I've seen what happens, I know these protesters personally, some are my friends, and they will readily admit that it is a justifiable protest tactics to smash private property and fight the cops. The point is to incite the anger of the protesters - to "wake people up".
Anyway, we finally managed to marginalize these tactics by building militant student anti-war actions like non-violent street occupations at major intersections. But rather than kick out the local anarchists from our organizing meetings, we invited them, spoke with them, and managed to split their forces, pulling a number to our viewpoint on protecting people in our protest (immigrants, parolees, people with disabilities, etc) by not engaging the police.
Eventually, some anarchists left arguing that we were still not radical enough but by the time they left, they had become a small, marginal force, most of their followers being pulled into the broader movement (and now some joining the IS - the Canadian IST group).
There's nothing wrong with being openly critical of the Black Bloc tactics. I think we have to be and we have to be sharp. But in practice, we have to learn to work with these people when there is an opportunity (there's no need to go out of the way, though). But the way to win them over is to engage in militant and EFFECTIVE non-violent direct action like sit-ins, pickets, street occupations. Then there's a degree of trust built-up that can help facilitate fruitful political discussions.
I thought these protests were very inspiring
I was not at Strasbourg, but was at Rostock for the G8 in 2007. I was beaten up by German riot police who ran at me while I was waving a red flag. I remember when I got back inside the demo, somewhat bloodied, a German demonstrator asked if I had been injured by the police or by demonstrators, some of whom were throwing rocks at the cops. When I said it was the cops, he lost interest. I think if I had said it was demonstrators, he would have waved me like a bloody shirt against what could loosely be called the Black Bloc.
But why should anyone have been able to ask you in all seriousness whether it was a protestor or a policeman who injured you?
For the ruling class and the oppressed to share potential targets/collateral damage is surely to lose the plot somewhat no?
My report on Strasbourg with pics up on GR site:
http://www.resist.org.uk/?q=node/894
@eoc : The block that burned was a hotel, not a residential block.
I was talking of the pharmacy, not the hotel. A pharmacy also burned, and it was in a residential block, although as far as I know the block itself didn't burn, just the pharmacy.
No Ilestre, the block that burnt was an IBIS hotel, the chemist was across from that in a small shopping complex, it got burnt down too but the residential housing was across the street.
Here is the chemist burning:
http://www.resist.org.uk/?q=node/881
Alright noel, I'm now convinced, my mistake.
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