wow!
From today's Guardian:
http://
commentisfree.guardian.co..._in_sderot.html
Revealing is how the article is based almost entirely on sentiment, and commits the habitual Zionist gag-reflex of pretending the media are against them.
Shit! I didn't specify which PM or FO, the UK's or Israel's. I meant the UK's but poor ol' Cruddas will wait for Ehud Olmert's Question Time.
Some years back he upset some people in Israel by making a comparisson between the Palestinians and the ghetto fighters.
On the other had as a secularist and a humanist I'm not too sure he'd be that enamoured of Hamas's fundamentalist ideology.
Does anyone know Israel's citizenship policy for Gypsies, if it even has one?
Hold the press. Islamist hatred of the Jews just a misunderstanding.
Its only those nasty Zionist Jews we dont like.
For a reality check visit the Hamas Charter. A more despicable heinous piece of virulent antisemitism not seen since Mein Kamf
Thanks for your 'kind references'but we well understand the true malice and venal nature of the comments.
As the saying goes with friends like these etc
Does anyone know Jordan/Syria/Libya/Saudi Arabia / Irak [lol]citizenship policy for Christians ,Jews ,Hindus etc if they even have one?
Just because Hamas has an anti-semitic expression on record doesn't mean the Palestinians deserve to be abandoned to the Zionists, even if it weren't the case that Zionists themselves collaborated with useful anti-semites... the most hideous case being Israel's alliance with Argentina while it was ruled by a junta that persecuted Jews and leftists. Oh yeah, I think the leading ANP members were Nazi sympathizers and that didn't stop Israel from developing nukes with South Africa. There must have been plenty of Jew-haters in the Phalangist militia who were Sharon's pals.
The point there was, Israel's posture as a refuge for Holocaust survivors is just that... a posture. Course, it never claimed to be the state of the Jewish and Gypsy people, so that was half joking.
These two organizations combined had 22 fighting units, of which 4 were Communist, 4 were Bundist, and 14 were Zionist. But it appears that the larger Jewish Fighting Organization, which was youth-based, had all of the Communist and Bundist units, plus the Labor Zionist units--perhaps 4-5 of the 14. This left maybe 10 right-wing Zionist units in the Jewish Military Association.
Sadly, I've uncovered a 2004 interview with Marek Edelman in which he drinks the Kool-Aid on the War in Iraq. It's disgusting: "Every war with Fascists is our business."
http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/
20...604826777232870
I share his attitude to the Saddam regime but not his toleration of the West's oil-wealth driven motivations and means of removing that dictator while propping up America-friendly dictators all over the place.
He was wrong on Iraq though our anti-war movement has not been a beacon of support for democracy against dictatorship - what with the Galloways of the world and their fawning support for Saddam.
Meanwhile back in the ghetto a number of forces from the Bund and communists to the Zionists took part in the uprising (though the right wing Zionists participation was quite short lived). the main propaganda in the ghetto urging a fightback had long been the preserve of the Bund - which reflected the fact that they had led the fight against antisemitism in Poland in the 1930s, often in cooperation withthe left wing of the polish socialists, while the Zionists were not interested and the communists spent too much of their time in sectarian turf wars against the Bund.
Throughout the 1930s the Zionists publicly agreed with antisemitic Polish politicians who were saying there were "a million superfluous Jews" in Poland
Two classic works worth reading are "The Ghetto Fights" by Edelman and "The Stars Bear Witness" by a Bundist called Bernard Goldstein who operated clandestinely out of the Warsaw Ghetto - and remained hiding in Warsaw until 1945 having helped in the 43 uprising and taken part in the 44 Polish Uprising
Just because Hitler and the Nazis had an antisemitic expression on record did not mean that the citizens of Germany should have been subjected to such harsh conditions.
Just think before you make such crass statements or better still try not to let your embedded prejudicez get in the way of reasoned contextual debate.
However having just stumbled on this blog I realise its just another antisemitic 'love in 'for an assortment of Islamofascists,Jewish Jew haters and far left bots .
I would rather attend a three day Scientologist convention then try to parle with this mind set.
Enjoy your Judenfrei weekend .Will definitely recommend you to Frank on Jew watch -he will just luuurve you folks in redneckville.
Diasporist - Thanks for your comment. It's here for those who miss it because of "Harvey's" worthless twittering. I read The Ghetto Fights but not the other. It wasn't nice of me to mention Edelman's age but it was sad to see what looked like a "wheeling out" by the JC. Zionists usually wait for bundists and even communists to die before using them.
Professor Ber Mark: "On the roof of Muranowska 7 the fighters had hoisted the white-red [Polish] and the white-blue [Jewish] flags, and on one of the tall buildings of Milla, the street of the impoverished Jews and the Jewish proletariat, they flew the red flag. It was [SS General] Stroop's ambition to capture it. After much effort he succeeded."
Diaspora, yes, I saw somewhere that in pre-war Poland the Jewish Labor Bundists and the Polish Socialist Party formed an electoral alliance in the cities which controlled most of the city governments!
Perhaps you are calling for still more Palestinians from west of the River Jordan to be ethnically cleansed to east of the River Jordan.
Palestinians who are stateless claim to be stateless because it's the case. They don't claim to be stateless on account of hating Jews. Some (not all) of them may hate Jews on account of Jews having rendered them stateless.
But your "point" wouldn't demolish the natives' claim that they have been ethnically cleansed from their homes by the zionist movement and if Jordan was called Palestine it wouldn't mean that Jews from anywhere in the world should have more right than non-Jewish natives to live in Palestine west of the River Jordan. It's not Jew hatred to say that. It's just a fact, an obvious fact.
Put another way, whatever name we pin on any territory anywhere does not and cannot legitimise ethnic cleansing and Jewish supremacist rule anywhere.
Or put still another way, your "point" was completely irrelevant or it was a call for still more zionist ethnic cleansing of the native population from between the River Jordan and the Med.
But it is certainly not incomprehensible why people from west of the River Jordan don't lay claim to land east of the River Jordan. It's the decent thing not to covet thy neighbours' land.
The Palestinians were not rendered stateless solely through Israeli actions but also as a consequence of the war they and their Arab frinds engaged in and continue to do do.
Just as 17 million Germans were rendered stateless, after the war, by the acts of their Nazi sponsors during the war.
I am not calling for more ethnic cleansing but for a redrawing of the "Palestine "map so that the current state of Jotrdan, most of the West Bank and the entirety of the Gaza strip are rolled up into a new con-federal stateIn other words, 95.000 sq.kms compared to 5000 sq.kms.
All of these Arab states are creations of the West and have been validated by the UN. In that, they are no different to Israel. They are also "supremacist" states, in that they insist that Islam - and Islam only - is the basis for their constitutions.
And let us not forget, that the Arabs are themselves only in the area as a consequence of war, rapine, conquest, colonialism and imperialism.
The population of Palestine prior to the zionist conquest was overwhelmingly Arab since time immemorial right up until the zionist conquest. Even when the UN passed its partition plan, Jews were only 30% of the population.
The ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians began 7 months before the Arab states mobilised against Israel's expansion. The mobilisation may have actually helped Israel continue what the zionists had started but that doesn't absolve Israel of responsibility for what occurred nor does not entitle Israel to refuse to allow Palestinians the right of return especially since it calls on people from around the world to come and live in their place.
I think you might want to check what you said about Arab states and Islam. There are many religions in Arab states (except Saudi), Islam is simply the largest. But none owe their Muslim majorities to ethnic cleansing.
And let's not forget what? The zionist conquest of Palestine and the relentless aggression towards its natives and neighbours is happening now. You are ludicrously trying to justify a current project of colonial settlement, ethnic cleansing and racist laws by reference to an oversimplified version of events that took place over a thousand years ago.
The Palestinians were not rendered stateless solely through Israeli actions but also as a consequence of the war they and their Arab frinds engaged in and continue to do do.
As anyone who cares about such things as 'the truth' - the following (randomly selected) articles reveal what reality has to say about john's obvious zionist lies (remembering of course, that acquisition by conquest is impermissible under international law - in fact, it was made its bedrock after WWII, given Hitler's shennanigans which zionists are only too happy to highlight whenever it suits them).
All the surrounding Arab states want peace -
Carrots-and-Sticks in the Middle East
The Five Percent Solution
By John V. Whitbeck
CounterPunch
01 Aug 2007
...It is the Arab Peace Initiative. First launched at an Arab League summit in Beirut in March 2002 and reaffirmed with great publicity at the latest summit in Riyadh in March 2007, it offers full peace and normal diplomatic and economic relations between Israel and all Arab states in return for a total end to the occupation of all Arab lands occupied by Israel in 1967...
...Unfortunately, since this offer, the most generous that Israel can ever hope to receive from the Arab world, has never had a deadline for acceptance attached to it, Israel has been free to ignore it with impunity -- and has done so.
Hamas wants peace -
Hamas Leader: We'll Accept Israel Within 1967 Borders
An interview with Khaled Meshaal
by Rainer Rupp
Antiwar.com
20 Dec 2006
Syria wants peace -
Choose your pick from this lot in the Cork Database (Eire) regarding Israel rejecting peace offers from Syria -
The Israeli government rebuffs Syrian proposals for negotiations without preconditions
PIWP
john says -
And let us not forget, that the Arabs are themselves only in the area as a consequence of war, rapine, conquest, colonialism and imperialism.
- that's awfully decent of you john, to stand up for the rights of the locals.
Perhaps you tell us all which locals, in particular, are objecting to this state of affairs which you seem so concerned about?
The Jews are not newcomers to the area. Their presence is attested to from numerous historic sources. When the Romans put down the Jewish Revolt in AD70, they were not referring to Arabs. If they were, they must have been a strangely suppine presence. From time immemorial: only as a figment of fantasists. The Arab presence in Palestine came about through conquest and the dispossession of Jews in an almost wholly Jewish
Galillee came about through the imposition of the dhimma and forced conversion. Similarly, the Arabs colonised Iran, dispossessing the native-born, indigenous Zoroastrians with an identical policy, not so much scorched earth as scorched souls. The Palestinians were offered an Arab state in Palestine, alongside a Jewish one, by the UN. They rejected the idea, time and time again.
It is about time the Palestinians showed some intellectual and political maturity. Else they risk becoming one of the forgotten peoples of the Middle East.
As for the many religions in the ME, it appears that Chaldean and Assyrian Christians are rapidly being forced out of Iraq, The Copts are under pressure in Egypt and the Christians of the West Bank and Gaza are being assaulted by their Muslim neighbours. Bethelhem, one a Christian town, is slowly becoming a Muslim one. Tolerance is not a feature in this landscape
The idea that the Palestinians are essentially or collectively unintellectual or immature is as racist as any I have heard. It would be as racist as me saying it's about time the Jews started telling the truth about history. Many Jews lie about history and even the present but only racists make such generalisations as to attribute an behavioural essence to a whole people.
The Palestinians may be annihilated by Israel or even by reactionary Arab regimes but I don't think they will be forgotten.
Tolerance does indeed suffer with resistance to modern imperialism because minority groups have often been manipulated by outside forces. But the continued existence of minority groups like Jews, Druze, Christians, etc, is testimony to the historical tolerance of Islam.
Muslims have a higher birthrate than Christians and the pressure Israel has inflicted on the occupied territories has led to many leaving who are able to do so and Christians being more prosperous have been more able to do so. There is no evidence that it is Muslim antagonism towards Christians that is causing Christians to leave Bethlehem.
If you come back, please provide some links to back your assertions. I hope I'm not being unfair but I think you're just a time waster who'll say anything to defend Israel.
Also, look back at your statements. They are openly racist. My objection to Israel is that it is a racist state based on ethnic cleansing and racist laws. I don't know why you don't just accept that. Given your own racism it should be perfectly acceptable to you.
- No, they're not newcomers but zionists are.
As usual, the old zionist trick of equating Jewish People(s) with zionists - they aren't the same thing at all.
And its not necessarily the case that 'Arabs' dispossessed the Jewish folks, then living back then, in whatever area of the current day Levant you wish to choose to examine.
Perhaps these Jewish folks, of hallowed memory, held onto their land and merely converted to Islam, or whatever.
I notice in the litany of the crimes of Islam, john makes no mention of the fact that over 90% of the native Christian population of Mandate Palestine (probably the oldest Christian congregation still extant - an unbroken living link back to the Christian Messiah) have been ethically cleansed by the zionists, so far.
Edited By Siteowner
Edited By Siteowner
Israel 'ready to return Golan'
BBC
23 Apr 2008
The only catch is that Israel will have to, er, make peace, er, if it wants peace... -
Correspondents say returning the Golan to Syria is not a popular concept in Israel, and the details of a possible Israeli withdrawal have bedevilled past negotiations between the two countries
I also love this blinding insight from the BBC -
Israel and Syria remain technically at war although both sides have recently spoken of their desire for peace.
- Israel illegally occupying a part of their neighbours land automatically is an act of aggression and means technically there is a state of war.
Edited By Siteowner
http://www.rebelion.org/petras/
e...jenin020502.htm
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