Yesterday, I decided that I would not post on your blog, because I did not want to associate myself, or debate vile people such as yourselves. But today, I came across this posts that SCREAMS of your hatred for the Jewish people. Tell me please, kind sir, if the situation had been reversed and an Arab attack had indiscriminately killed Jewish children, would you have called them "child killers". Or is that label only reserved for the Jews who are accused of such a crime? After all, the people we are dealing with, the Arabs, have a very long history of lying to further their cause. Take for instance, the Al Dura affair. It has now been proven in the court of law (a French court no less)that that boy could not have been shot by the Israelis. However, the lie (reminiscent of the medieval blood libels) of his murder became the symbol of the Al Aqsa intifada, the genocidal campaign against the Israeli Jews. The Israeli army reported that those children were killed by explosives stored by the Hamas murderers in order to be used in the future for killing and maiming Israeli civilians. It is not difficult to believe, after all, those explosives were made by amateurs, and such things have happened many times before. Of course, I don't expect you to believe the IDF, after all, you need a justification for your vile hatred, and no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. Did you ever take the Israeli side on anything? Did you ever attempt to be at least mildly objective?
You say: And by the same reasoning random attacks against Israel are justified because Israeli gunmen operate among civilians.
Can you name ONE instance of Israeli soldiers using civilians as shields? Just ONE. You see, kind sir, we the Jews are a very different bunch. We would never think about using our civilians as shields. And that is something that is done routinely by our enemies. And why wouldn't they do such things? If their civilians die, they score a major propaganda victory. The despicable international community can be counted upon to take their side. On the other hand, we value human life.
You will do everything in your power to perpetuate the image of Israelis as child-murderers. You have no problem perpetuating modern day blood libels. You will do everything in your power to dehumanize your fellow Jews. Shame on you.
Yes, they always use the line that gunmen operate among civilians and it always amazes me that people fall for it. A few years ago, I had a letter in the JC in which I responded to this line by saying, 'Where do you want them to operate, army barracks?' ALL of Gaza is a civilian area.
As for the above rant by Zionist Revolution, who has also fallen for that line, I can only laugh. The worse Israel's crimes are, the more defensive they get and the more they rant on to try and justify them.
Hatred of the Jewish people indeed! These bloody Israeli soldiers are NOT Jews. Ok? How dare anyone associate them with us.
It is Zionist Revolution who hates the Jewish people - real Jews- as he hates what they stand for: justice.
Now let's address some of your points.
Mohamed al Dura was almost definitely killed by Israel. One independent ballistics expert has said that it was impossible for Israel to have killed the child (on that one occasion out of hundreds in recent years). The court hearings have not been about who killed the boy but about whether the film evidence was faked and the case is on going. I was surprised to see that whilst Israel moved with indecent and damning haste to destroy as much evidence of the child-killing as it thought necessary, it did actually own up to the killing and has never officially publicly supported these attempts at exonerating its army.
Did you ever take the Israeli side on anything? Did you ever attempt to be at least mildly objective?
I don't want to burst your bubble or get you more worked up but siding with Israel and being objective are not the same. I am objective with the facts and subjective with my opinions. Here's a worked example of a statement by me, "Israel is uniquely despised because Israel is uniquely despicable."
Now I think it is an objective fact that Israel is despised in a way that is unique. Many people who despise Israel, want it abolished (I think so anyway). People who despise China want it reformed or out of Tibet or both but they don't usually want China abolished. So that was the objective bit (arguably). Now, "because Israel is uniquely despicable". Now that despicable bit is subjective. What I am saying is that Israel is unique because of it's brand of state enforced racism. I'd say it's objectively racist to invite people from around the world to become citizens of a state whilst denying that right to people who had been established there for generations. The despicable bit is just my opinion. Obviously, when we look at your posts, Israel's popularity with certain people, Israel's structure and behaviour, not everyone is persuaded that racism is despicable. If they were, Israel wouldn't exist. So I suppose I combine objectivity with subjectivity but I don't really try. It just happens that way.
Can you name ONE instance of Israeli soldiers using civilians as shields?
I think there is quite a lot of evidence that Israel uses Palestinians as shields. I can't be bothered to find the pics. Let's just say that the settlements are an example of using humans (in this case Jewish children) as shields for a bunch of armed fascist activists known as settlers).
You will do everything in your power to dehumanize your fellow Jews.
Nope, it is Israel that has dehumanised both Jews and Arabs. I believe that states should recognise the basic humanity of all of their people. Segregation as practised by Israel is dehumanising.
It's sort of an oxymoron, wrapped in a non sequitur, inside a contradiction.
By the way, interesting how Israeli-Palestinians in the North haven't the Civil Defense facilities they have in the Jewish South. It's almost as if they're considered expendable.
Yes, they always use the line that gunmen operate among civilians and it always amazes me that people fall for it. A few years ago, I had a letter in the JC in which I responded to this line by saying, 'Where do you want them to operate, army barracks?' ALL of Gaza is a civilian area. As for the above rant by Zionist Revolution, who has also fallen for that line, I can only laugh.
Deborah, instead of laughing, try providing just ONE shred of documentary evidence that shows that Israelis use civilians as shields. This is a standard arab tactic, and there are mounds of evidence to prove it. A letter in the JC does not count as evidence. But this does:
http://media.a7.org/a7radio/misc...eo/
children.wmv
Deborah says:
The worse Israel's crimes are, the more defensive they get and the more they rant on to try and justify them.
It would be very helpful if you had any evidence of those crimes, such as the link above. I am not going to take the word of a well-trained Arab spin doctor or one of their western apologists.
Deborah says:
Hatred of the Jewish people indeed! These bloody Israeli soldiers are NOT Jews. Ok? How dare anyone associate them with us.
You are talking about noble Jewish soldiers who have an extremely challenging task of defending the Jewish people not just inside Eretz Yisroel, but other places in the world (such as ethopia and iran). Given the constraints imposed on them by hostile outsiders, they have managed to accomplish their tasks valiantly.
Deborah says:
It is Zionist Revolution who hates the Jewish people - real Jews- as he hates what they stand for: justice.
Lady, you flatter yourself if you count yourself among the children of Israel. As someone who has joined with our genocidal enemies and who is spreading their vicious lies, you have forfeited any right to call yourself a Jew. Any rabbi (of course I am talking about real rabbis, and not the reform wannabes) would place you in cherem. Afterall, you are as anti-justice as anyone can be.
Mark Elf says:
Oh yes, I remember you, you're the chap who accuses others of getting worked up
Yep, that’s me, you really shouldn’t get so worked up. For example, you could take a break from calling people child-killers.
Mark Elf says:
Mohamed al Dura was almost definitely killed by Israel. One independent ballistics expert has said that it was impossible for Israel to have killed the child (on that one occasion out of hundreds in recent years).
Definitely? Are you a ballistics expert now? Let’s not ignore the fact that we are talking about a court case here. About 100 years ago, there was a very similar case in Imperial Russia. A Jew named Menachem Beilis was accused of ritually murdering a Christian child. The case went to trial where he was supposed to be convicted by a handpicked anti-semitic jury. But, the case was so ridiculous, that even that jury gave the “not guilty” verdict. Of course, there were plenty of revisionists back then. There are even some now. No amount of evidence will convince them because they are motivated by hatred. The same goes for the Al-Dura affair. You, the haters of our people will stop at nothing in order to dehumanize us. You really should read up on Beilis affair. You’ll be surprised by how many similarities you will find.
Mark Elf says:
I was surprised to see that whilst Israel moved with indecent and damning haste to destroy as much evidence of the child-killing as it thought necessary, it did actually own up to the killing and has never officially publicly supported these attempts at exonerating its army.
It’s kind of cute that you have to concoct a conspiracy theory. You seem to be missing the fact that the French court case revolved around the footage where the allegedly murdered child comes alive (miraculously, of course). Of course, the Russian Imperial government had plenty of reasons of trying to pin the blame on the Jews in the Beilis trial, but I don’t want get into those right now. What I am more interested in is why you, the haters of Israel so desperately cling to the Al Dura affair. Let’s state at least some of the reasons:
1. If the Al-Dura libel is proven false, it will cast legitimate doubt on other accusations of child murder by Israel. Let’s not forget that that Al Dura was made the symbol of the genocidal intifada.
2. It would expose the incredible anti-Israel bias in the western media. After all, the footage in question was captured by France 2, a French government network.
3. It will hurt your ability to dehumanize Israelis.
Indeed, it will be very difficult for you to part with this dehumanizing libel. If you want full coverage of the Al-Dura affair, I suggest you visit this link:
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?...7&
x_article=855
Mark Elf says:
What I am saying is that Israel is unique because of it's brand of state enforced racism.
For your information, we, the Jews are not a race. And neither are the Arabs or the Muslims. Of course, you, progressive thinkers have an obsession with accusing anyone you don’t like of racism.
Mark Elf says:
I'd say it's objectively racist to invite people from around the world to become citizens of a state whilst denying that right to people who had been established there for generations.
Israel was pretty much empty before the Jews returned to their homeland. There’s plenty of documentary evidence and eyewitness testimonies to confirm it. There were scattered groups of people of many nationalities including both Jews and Arabs. I suggest you educate yourself. Here’s an excellent website: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/ It is also helpful to keep in mind that throughout history the Arabs have been the ultimate colonizers and destroyers of indigenous cultures (ie Egyptian, Berber, Asssyrian just to name a few.) We, the Jews, are one indigenous culture that will never surrender to Arab-Muslim tyranny.
Mark Elf says:
I think there is quite a lot of evidence that Israel uses Palestinians as shields. I can't be bothered to find the pics.
You think? Keep thinking. I want hard evidence. Otherwise it becomes just another vicious libel. I know you are fond of those. Of course you can’t be bothered to find the pics. They are after all, a figment of your imagination.
Mark Elf says:
Let's just say that the settlements are an example of using humans (in this case Jewish children) as shields for a bunch of armed fascist activists known as settlers).
These “settlers” are legitimate residents of a land that they are entitled to (and no one else). They are the most noble, courageous people that you would ever want to meet. You, on the other hand is the fascist, because you are basically saying that people are not allowed to live in their communities with their children.
Mark Elf says:
Nope, it is Israel that has dehumanised both Jews and Arabs. I believe that states should recognise the basic humanity of all of their people. Segregation as practised by Israel is dehumanising.
Israel has been a blessing to both Jews and Arabs. It has greatly improved the lives of the arabs both inside the 1967 cease-fire line and outside. The standards of living and healthcare that the arabs have thanks to Israel are far superior than any other place in the middle east. Yes, Israel is forced to kill terrorists in self-defense, but numerically speaking the number of arabs who die from Israeli defensive operations is very small. Far more arabs die in wars that happen all over the Arab world. For example, 100,000 arabs died in the Algerian civil war. Also, a lot more die from state tyranny. For example, 40,000 arabs died under the rule of Hafez Al-Assad. And let’s not forget Saddam…. What segregation are you talking about? In Israel, the Jews live together with the arabs. Many Arabs are loyal citizens and serve in the army. Unfortunately, most are not.
Mark, you have conveniently ignored some of the questions I posed… let me reiterate one:
If the situation had been reversed and an Arab attack had indiscriminately killed Jewish children, would you have called them "child killers". Or is that label only reserved for the Jews who are accused of such a crime?
Mooser42001:
Zionist Revolution?
It's sort of an oxymoron, wrapped in a non sequitur, inside a contradiction.
The only oxymoron is the “Palestinian” revolution which is basically a terrorist campaign designed to rob the indigenous Jews of their land and identity. There’s no contradiction in “Zionist Revolution” after all, we, the Jews are oppressed by the international community. History shows that you can oppress us for only so long. Sooner or later, the time will come for a revolution and chances are Mooser, it’ll be a lot more than a “progressive” is be able to handle.
do this on purpose. Think logically
about what Israel could gain out
of this. All of this was in self-defense as we all know. I do not
see the point of bickering about
mistakes nor of wasting time
on hate between the same
people. The Palestinians
and the Israelis are one and the same
people- one group left 2K years
ago and came back while the other stayed on.
here, mr revolution, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h...h?v=hAU8N-
TQEdA
ZR - I don't theorise - I state facts or offer opinions, as I said. I don't, as a rule, speculate, and I don't make anything up. The al Dura case has nothing in common with the Beilis case as the people who accuse Israel of killing al Dura are powerless and the people who accused Beilis were powerful. And of course Beilis was innocent. Further, Israel has killed hundreds of children in recent years so the al Dura case is irrelevant to the basic point that Israel is targeting and killing children.
Now stop bulking out the comments with nonsense and follow hulkagaard's lead and go to youtube, key in expressions like "human shields" Israel Palestinian children, and so on. That should keep you very busy.
Steve - with the passage of time and in consideration of the fact that Judaism has moved from community to community over that time there is no reason to believe that today's Israelis are returning Israelites. Of course even if they are it has no political significance for today. But have a good look at Jewish history, see the Jewish states of the past. Consider how the Ethiopian Jews are so different in appearance from Ashkenazi Jews. And when you speak of another group staying on, you miss an important part of Palestinian history. Most were not allowed to stay on when the "returning group" began its ethnic cleansing in November 1947.
The logic of Israel's violence would appear to be ethnic cleansing and the fact that there is a tendency within zionism to see violence as an end itself. Look at Lebanon in the summer of 2006. Look at the two Qana bombings.
I thought the germanic revolution himself, Mr ZR, had already staked out the moral high ground and wasn't going to sully his impregnable zionist ivory-towerism with reference to the empirical world, which the rest of us mere mortals are only too happy to be mired in and besmirched with..ho hum.
Germanic Revolution opines -
You think? Keep thinking. I want hard evidence. Otherwise it becomes just another vicious libel. I know you are fond of those.
From the vaults of Lawrence of Cyberia -
Hiding Behind Civilians
11 Aug 2006
Military Juntas" For Five Hundred, Alex.
03 Mar 2007
There are no partners for peace and the like, so it's back to the ivory zionist tower for ZR, no doubt!
..remember that 'there are no civilians in South Lebanon'
- Of course there isn't. Only nests of terrorists exist there.
So you are ready to help me advocate a system of state supported wanton promiscuity in Israel? We have got to get the Jewish birth-rate up, up, up!
Do you have another idea to do it, Zionist?
Hell, if he wants to make aliyah, I won't stand in his way! Those goddam Caterpillars will crush you!
Also it's bad manners upon meeting a Zionist living in the U.S. to serenade them with, "There's No Place Like Home," especially if you offer them a pair of ruby slippers and suggest they click the heels together.
These and many more helpful rules are contained in my forthcoming book, "Hello, I Must Be Going."
Instead of responding to my point about the line 'militants operate from civilian areas' you asked me about Israeli soldiers using human shields which is a different matter.
Let me spell it out. There is no Palestinian army and no infrastructure for militants to have barracks. They have got to live somewhere, so of course they are going to live among civilians! With the sophisticated weapons that Israel has, they have no need to drop bombs on houses to take out militants.
You are so keen to defend Israel, that you refuse to see through such illogical arguments.
As for giving examples of Israel's crimes, where do I start? Just look at the websites of Israeli peace groups like Gush Shalom, B'Tslem and ICAHD, and they will tell you enough about house demolitons, arbitary shootings, land confiscation, checkpoint harrassments....Better still, why not watch films like 'The Iron wall' and you will see disgusting Settler behavour in Hebron....
Noble Jewish soldiers indeed! What is noble about beating up and shooting unarmed Palestinians? What is noble about torturing them? What is noble about holding pregnant women up at checkpoints so that they have to give birth there? Haven't you read the testimonies from soldiers called 'Breaking the Silence'? It was in the Independent last week.
Commenting by HaloScan
