So now war crimes are openly talked about in parliament.
The pendulum is swinging to the (fascist) right. As the levels of violence increase, people will be polarized right and left.
I think that part of why Israel has lost its broad based international support among people outside of Israel (not governments) is because of this polarization. Of course it is not only Israel - the US has thrown it's thin veneer of fairness to the wind as well.
("With spirit, with blood, we will redeem thee, O Palestine.")
They don't have to vote with their feet. Their feet can stay in place and the line can be re-drawn to give them Palestine. Umm al-Fahm came from Jordan, it can be returned to Palestine.
Alternately, and more likely, they are Israelis taking the pi$$ of certain other Israelis.
Too busy dealing with the effects of his disciple, Haj Amin al-Husseini.
Umm al-Fahm is interesting because the activists keep playing with the boundaries of the state, the boundaries of citizenship, engaging in incitement and sedition, and yet claiming that their citizenship binds the state, not them. Given the very sophisticated fear-mongering of the Islamic Movement in Israel, its careful shunning of terrorism and its orchestration of mass political activism cum street-theater, this is actually one of the more important political developments in the conflict in the past 10 years and one which is pregnant with meaning for the resolution of the conflict as a whole. In the USA, "material support" means exactly that, meaning one is free to make any declaration in support of a State Department-listed Foreign Terrorist Organization. Israeli case law is lacking and probably not as supportive of freedom of speech. So this is IMPORTANT, as developments go. Every lawyer I know in Israel handling citizenship law just started researching the relevant case law.
But feel free to toss out facile anti-Zio quips calling me a Hitlerite. People keep pairing Jerusalem and U. al-Fahm, asking why Israel *can't* keep the first and *must* keep the other, no one looks at the implications for liberal citizenship and the issues regarding political speech that calls for the dissolution of the state of one's birth citizenship.
You can't tell me that Israel doesn't get to keep E. Jerusalem because it's full of Palestinians but Umm al-Fahm gets to decide what happens to Tel Aviv. ("Nafkeed ya Falastin.") That is precisely what the Islamic Movement intends. Or you can tell me, yes, but you'll get a bitter laugh in reply, and a suggestion that Fahimis study the meaning of the concept of liberal citizenship, since they rely on it for their claims against the State of Israel.
- Really, when did the Grand Old Mufti ever threaten anyone with a 'shoah' eurosabra, or as you like to call it the very sophisticated fear-mongering of the Islamic Movement...?
Tell me potplant entity,
why do you never bring up the topic of Vichy Lebanon or Vichy Syria?
Haj Amin has now been promoted by you to the post of a speechwriter for Hitler. It won't be long before he'll be sharing the same desk as Eichmann - oh no, sorry, that was the zionists, wasn't it euroballoon?
Hitler had many faults but one of them wasn't destroying Haj Amin's community, unlike your beloved Brits.
Then again the British have come in for some scathing criticism as well by you haven't they, eurosausage?
Every lawyer I know in Israel handling citizenship law just started researching the relevant case law.
- It gets tiresome trailing after zionists and their lies, but not too recently on this very blog eurosabra made claims about legal cases involving IDF eligibility used as a criteria for apartheid Israel, and the fact eurosabra claimed things were getting better.
A simple visit to the Adalah website confirmed my worst fears,...only kidding, confirmed what I already knew, that Eurosabra is a lying zionist gobshite.
Isn't your phrase, "lying zionist gobshite" DOUBLY redundant? I think it must have been a Zionist who invented the term, "jumbo shrimp."
is in fact, correct, M'lud!
Any suggestions as to what would go with 'zionist' that wouldn't be -
a - redundant
or
b - a tautology
And you've proved that Adalah didn't like the Court's conclusion that bonus points for army service weren't discriminatory because national service is open to all, nothing more. Preferential allocation of government resources to those who invest their time in the state's military/medical/educational service is legitimate, sorry. If they hate the IDF that much, they can work in a school in Daliyat-al-Karmil. Frankly, at least as far as "national service" distinction goes, an Israeli-Palestinian medic should come in front of the haredim who do not serve. And certainly, as a Jew who did the medical route, I don't have access to the loan access advantages accruing to a Druze or Bedouin veteran of the IDF. So, yes, until far too recently it was conceived of as "military service" and not "national service."
With a bit more background, you might have found yourself waxing poetic about a REAL and instantly measurable bit of discrimination, mainly the reinstatement of the "psychometria" admission exam after 2002 when the 2000-1 iteration produced TOO MANY Arabs for comfort in the Israeli university system. Why it was regarded as a system failure instead of an opportunity to start making 60 years of discrimination up to Israeli -Palestinian women, finally represented on par with their proportion of population, en dit long sur the problems of Zionist education.
Re the discrimination thing, it isn't easy for Palestinians to serve in an army whose first claim to fame is the ethnic cleansing of their compatriots but I can see the technicality that allows an Israeli court to get, er, Israel off the hook here.
As for outing myself, all I am is someone who believes in equality. All you are is someone who believes in and covers for ethnic cleansing and Jewish supremacy. As Mike Marqusee said in a recent article, the denial of crimes against humanity is immoral no matter which section of humanity falls victim and no matter in whose name the crimes are carried out.
So carrying brandishing your dazzling intellect Eurosabra but the fact is you have chosen to identify with a fascistic anachronism.
- Getting desperate now.
Unlike yourself eurosauasage I don't believe in collective punishment, so what has the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign have to do with anything - could you please explain why they have been outed and what about?
I always take it as a compliment whenever psychotic racists like you try to smear me with being a Nazi.
As I said, Hitler had a lot of faults but one of them wasn't the destruction of the Grand Mufti's community of Arab Palestine - that was the responsibilty of us British.
One of the reasons I involve myself with Israel-Palestine and try to help in any way I can, is my own government is so much at fault for what happened in that area of the world pre-1948.
You prove yourself a liar on practically every single visit to this blog, so why should I believe your latest helping of crud (especially so since your statements are mere assertions with no supporting evidence, as per usual)?
I personally couldn't care less what you think or say about me or the SPSC or Palestinians etc
The fact is if I do answer you eurosabra, it isn't for your benefit - it is to help others. You are a lost case.
Thing is, Mark, your utopian politics might make some headway within the Green Line, if the polity that resulted could be sure of recognition by its Palestinian counterpart. There are already Israelis pushing for the end of the Occupation and the creation of a purely Western-democratic Israel, a totally liberal state shorn of the shortcomings of the millet system and "lifeboat Zionism." But the monocultural nationalism of Hamas and Jihad is nothing like the ANC's, or even the State of Israel. So you are attempting to dictate the dissolution of a democratic state against the will of its citizenry, in favor of Islamic supremacism. Just not on.
I have said nothing to indicate that I am in favour of anything that could be described as "Islamic supremacism".
As Zakhariya keeps pointing out, all Europe and (more importantly for Israel) the Middle East treated Jews as a nation for two millennia, as if they could not be natives in their polities, pending repatriation. Re-ordering it as a national question as the Byzantines, Mamlukes, and Ottomans did means that the religions of Palestine and Lebanon were nations, insofar as the state was concerned. Your depiction of Judaism as if Muslims did not see it as a national belonging of "Banu Isra'il" for 1200 years following the conquest of Byzantine Palestine is a Western affectation. That explains, among other reasons, why religious, pietistic Palestinian Jews were inevitably expelled from Arab-held portions of Palestine in '48-'49. They, like the Jews of the Arab world as a whole, were candidates for vicarious nationalist vengeance, easy to expel and despoil.
You demand a one-state solution knowing that Palestinian Islamism is the dominant political strain of the majority that would take power. Or do you think Hamas really don't mean they want an Islamic Waqf ruled by Sharia? You want Israeli Jews to re-surrender to the Arabic-inflected Islamic imperialism of Omar ibn al-Khattab. Talked to any Berbers or Copts about the joys of Arab nationalism and Islamic government lately?
Of course, it's galling that Eitam reduced Israeli citizenship to a mere loyalty test, but that happens in the Knesset all the time.
- Yes, they'd gladly swap with Palestinians any day, such are joys and benefits of Israeli nationalism and zionist government.
Anyway, what was that about the Grand Mufti and Hitler, me and the SPSC again eurosbra?
Sorry, it's just that I missed the bit where you admit that you stand corrected.
Every lawyer I know in Israel handling citizenship law just started researching the relevant case law.
- And it would be nice every once in a while, if you would alter your hasbara loggerhea style of vanity, and provide some evidence.
bait and switch
wikipedia
eurosabra tries to sell 'Israel' on the prospect that it is better than anything Arabs have to offer to the locals.
This obviously doesn't come up to scratch as the goods eventually offered certainly aren't the ones advertised in the window of zionism - the locals still prefer to buy Arab rather than Israeli.
eurosabra then tries to sell Israel on the premise that western democracy is no good, as Israel is superior and longer lasting in everyway.
Would the Copts and the Berbers be as impressed by eurosabra's shoddy sales techniques as the rest of us?
I think so.
And thanks for hasbara estimation of how much its agents appreciate open, free and honest and democratic debate.
I don't have any problems at all with estimations as to the worthiness/unworthiness of my efforts to help people. I do what I can - it may be a great deal, it might be nothing at all. I prefer to let the victims decide in this instance.
At the very least as long as I don't cause any harm or offence I'm quite happy (Hippocratic like oath) - and we shall see what we shall see.
Unless of course, eurosbara, you know what human history and humanity are all about - then you can tell me what I'm doing wrong and what I'm doing right (and provide proof)?
Personally, Ive never met anyone who knows exactly what tactics will work with regards to helping the folks of Israel and occupied Palestine live in mutual peace and understanding - if they did then I'm sure they'd already have put them into pratcice.
..professional historians are at loggerheads..
- I'm sure they are,
so how come you're an oracle of knowledge then, regarding democracy, tactics, how to shape and affect the future for the better, what will and won't work etc?
You're such a vain non-entity.
As for free debate, I don't think it exists, here or at LT--I accept that these places are sounding boards for anti-Zionist theory more than anything else, and I should more scrupulously police my verbiage--although I think calling opponents Sonei Am Yisroel is just the equivalent of "racist parrot", which gets leveled at me all the time.
64% of Israelis may be willing to beg their Islamic terror opponents to talk despite the group's explicit goals, theory, and practice. That does not mean that talking will yield anything other than a small pause in what is conceived as an unending ("Israel will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it.") war.
Israel isn't exactly independent so it is not all down to what Israelis have to be sold. BDS will focus more minds than you seem to realise. South Africa would have held out against the ANC for a lot longer if it had the international support that Israel has but in South Africa the situation was more literally black and white so easier for people to understand. Apart from the lies and cover-ups for Israel we get in the west, there is also the aid Israel receives that encourages its gruesome behaviour and your own sheer dishonesty is an example of the culture of deceit that characterises Israeli society.
A few years of full blown pariah status will have Israelis thumbing through the statute books of their countries of origin. When that happens there might not be that many Israelis to sell to.
I haven't seen too many forums with unfettered speech. There's Random International and a few of its World Crossing offshoots, and Angry Arab. RI is pretty good but AA's place is an unreadable madhouse, even though it's very cool how this guy allows tons of personal attacks without responding. Sean Hannity's forum is probably the most 'honorable' right wing forum - a regular JSF'er will take abuse and insinuations from regulars; shouldn't get modded if they stick to facts and avoid explicitly comparing Israel to Germany.
Most blogs and forums are dominated by one view point with token dissent that dances on eggshells. I wouldn't blame you for censoring a few of the posters here on your own blog, even if I agree with them in general.
Frankly, I like the situation as it is. Most of the interesting discussions happen when someone is gutsy where their views are barely tolerated.
- Yes well, enlighten us all then, where does it exist?
After all, as you recently said eurosabra, even historians are at loggerheads etc etc - you just can't stop lying, dissemblimg and dissimulationg for a single second, can you eurosabra?
I think calling opponents Sonei Am Yisroel is just the equivalent of "racist parrot", which gets leveled at me all the time.
- Apart from the usual pretentious and gratuitous use of foreign languages that not everybody is conversant in, calling you a racist is an exact description of what you are.
I feel sorry for your victims, not you.
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