Once we had the bureaucrats and their Nuremberg Race Laws, now we have 'DNA'.
If there really is one thing I pity Jewry for (apart from the obvious tragedy, of course) it's this squabbling over the basis of identity: no other 'ethnicity' seems to be subjected to it. I don't give a damn whether or not my 'Belgiumness' depends on being related to Ambiorix or not (Vercingetorix if I was a 'French Fleming' - LOL) and I've never met a Jew and felt the need to probe his 'genuine Jewishness', his 'actual Jewish roots'.
I haven't read the book, only the discussion about it over at MW and it appears to me Sand's notion of an 'Israeli people' to be the more interesting part of his book.
Humankind suffers from too long a memory, a memory that like short-term memory, constantly plays tricks on us.
Now let me go over and read your exploits at Moddy's...
Look, I'm no anthropologist or sociologist, but I'm pretty sure that a history of thousands of years of persecutions, expulsions, restrictions, wanderings, and struggle to survive was very conducive to worrying about purity.
And gee, what happened when the Jews arrived in the Goldenah Medina with almost complete liberty and facing little more than social prejudice? Not even a cursory attempt at creating a separate community in any way, was even tried, or desired. We didn't even centralise and co-ordinate doctrine.
And then you add the genetics in, which show we are just human beans like anybody else.
That's why I'm such a staunch anti-vegetarian: because Hitler was a vegetarian, clearly no good can come of that persuasion! In the name of anti-Fascism: death to all vegetarians!
Moddy was up to his old tricks of deleting my comments. Apparently he has a comment moderation policy: must read that some day...
marc b - I was shocked at his lack of knowledge and sheer stupidity. He really doesn't know what he is talking about. He was irritated with me for not understanding his beef with the Khazar hypothesis and I wanted to know what it was that fascists find appealing about it. At one point he seemed to be saying that it's not something that can be explained, you just have to know or believe or some such as if it was magic or a god or something. The laptop here is slow so I can't check now but it was definitely something like that. The man who thinks he is Consultant Anti-Fascist and Antisemite Finder General to the Jews didn't know what the fascists made of the Khazar hypothesis or why.
He also made some ludicrous essentialist remark about Jews having a "deep sense of bitter history" or something like that.
But he thinks fascist movements have coherent tenets where you can keep checking boxes until "boo-yah it's a fascist!"
If you've seen him in action before you will now know why he invariably finds an excuse not to engage in debate with anyone. "You're immature, boring, Far Right" - he loves parading that last one before the right and the good at Harry's Place. That's a coded message to the moderators there to ban the person before they make a case that's unanswerable, like the case against Israel.
"The editing is pretty interesting too. Multiple banquet scenes, when Oborne is talking about receptions held by the Friends of Israel. Cleverly interlaced with scenes of bloodshed and crying children in Gaza. Presumably we are being led to associate Jewish feasting with dead gentile children in the time-honoured way."
Tentative silver goes to CookieCutter:
"I get the impression that every Antisemitic icon was played as if this were a Leni Riefenstahl or Goebbels production.
Any film of cockroaches or rats scurrying. I didn’t watch because I don’t have to make myself angry and use the “c” word in front of my family (I’ve been told!)"
Clearly an extra-sensory perception at work...
HP's comment sections are now rivaling with Mad Mel Phlips'... Who'd have thunk it, eh? Two for the price of one...
That is to say, while many people today might rightly reject the idea that the Jews are a 'race,' many of the early Zionists did construct their 'rights to the land' on the basis of a 'racial-historical' claim.
So, while I'm sure people today can pull lots of other 'justifications' out of their hats, Sands' book does significantly undermine the classical Zionist conceptions and justifications for their political project. And so I could see why some people might be afraid of it.
http://ssl.viddler.com/explore/f...lub/videos/367/
Of course it involved notorious Jew haters like Michael Ancram and William Hague, as well as Very Rich Jewish lobbyists drinking the mixed blood of some Arabs, Jeremy Bowen and Orla Guerin from solid gold cups, as well as a few luxury but forlorn looking pork pies, offensively left uneaten...
Hoffman's got a piece in CIFWatch: Inside Channel 4’s Conspiracy Factory (quite funny because CIFWatch actually featured in the program!) and he quotes Chas Newkey-Burden (I mean WHO ELSE?):
"The deliberate conflation of bloody bodies [of Gazans] and Jews eating dinner was an early low."
Oh, man...
His family was screwed up, too. He has my empathy, I know what that's like.
Of course, not having pre-birth memories, I have to question whether I am really Jewish. Oy, life isn't easy.
On the one hand, you got the sense of total ownership of the religion which allows every Zionist to judge every other Jew on his commitment (or anything else), on the other hand, they are so divorced from it they reject the reality of it, what is known and what is right in front of them, and replace it with the alternating grandiosity and paranoia of a made-up history. I'm just sort of roughing this out, here.
Man, you figure it out, it stumps me.
Oh, way further back, way! Aren't we really talking about, given the times, separate creations?
Sort of a Piltdownowitz Man?
In particular 'Ana', high up in the thread. How did these sensitive souls survive watching the onslaught on Gaza, one cannot help but wonder? Either they weren't watching or they chose the sanitised BBC version...
Norman Finkelstein Interviewed on Danish TV November 13 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_...h?
v=_M1kbCjTvWQ
Not sure how this guy got a job interviewing people... Humphries he ain't.
http://www.independent.co.uk/new...ica-
457844.html
Remember the early battle between the 'spiritual' Zionists and the 'political' Zionists. The latter won and the former were repelled, sent to oblivion.
Well it seems that the political Zionists have now self-righteously stolen the mantra of the spiritual Zionists - they want their cake and eat it too.
So the physical state of Israel has been given all the mystical attributes desired by the spiritual Zionists (heaven on earth, a heinous contradiction), and, as a consequence, the substantive character of Israel is irrelevant.
All this stuff about apartheid, settlements, massacres, etc. is meaningless.
No wonder the Zios get so incredulous about all those criticisms. Don't you see that the essence of Jewry is at stake?
Channel Four see him as “Alternative”
Like Richard Ingrams, he’s no Holocaust denier, just one of those chaps who thinks Jews are no better
than muslims.
And the commenter's name? British not Racist.
Monty:
The editing is pretty interesting too. Multiple banquet scenes, when Oborne is talking about receptions held by the Friends of Israel. Cleverly interlaced with scenes of bloodshed and crying children in Gaza. Presumably we are being led to associate Jewish feasting with dead gentile children in the time-honoured way.
Fagin:
Well off course my dear dear Monty, the flesh of Palestinian children is so tasty and cheap.
But Christmas now is soon coming and i must go out to look with my friend Shylock for some goyim kinder to prepare to eat fur my Xmas supper - they’re bones are gristly!
but I must be careful in case that vigilant goy Oberon catcheth us with his ever so clever programme of Dispatches.
"The program — which may leave many viewers with the impression that Britain’s 290,000 Jews somehow control the rest of the British population of 62,000,000 — has been widely plugged by neo-Nazi and left-wing antisemitic groups."
AND she's got a hate email to prove her point! Case closed, Mel!
Here.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melan...tred-
isle.thtml
You're talking, I'm assuming, about Shylock Holmes?
There's something funny about that, and someday maybe I'll find out what it is.
mixed with whatever host population they are residing with at the time. The idea that jews are "the only pure tribe" is absolutely ridiculous and people should get laughed at and scolded every time they tell the stories of how they are "God's chosen people". Judahites/Israelites were tribes of people, determined by the FATHER, jews determine heritage by the MOTHER. Edomites were the mixed mulatto people then, and are now also.
Well, I'll tell you, I bet the girls didn't run off and date Arabs while we Jews were wandering forty years in the desert! Jewish kids appreciated their heritage back then! These kids today (especially the girls) are just no damn good!!
Why do the fascists mention Khazars? I think only the weirdest conspiracy theorists among them do, to 'prove' therefore that Jews don't belong in Palestine and are a lying conspiratorial lot! In fact Arthur Koestler's 'Thirteenth Tribe' was about this thesis and he was a Zionist, at one time anyway, so there is nothing in the slightest fascist about it.
Ben Azzai is right and not just about early Zionists. How else could you justify Palestine as a place to settle, if it was based on a god whose existence you denied?! Race of course.
Unless of course the dastardly Arabs manage to cast their magic spells: remember Ali Baba! Abracadabra!
ANyone who has read Mein Kampf cannot forget Hitler's para. about black curly haired Jewish boys ensnaring the innocent and beautiful young Aryan women in order to poison their blood with goodness knows what.
This is the vilest depths of racism, the absolute sewer so it's no surprise that the ZIonist swim in it!
Have you seen apparently my contribution to the Big Questions programme last Sunday is highlighted in this week's JC!
Re the racism that is zionism, you've reminded of some insane comments from Linda Grant in an Engage thread involving you.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/...ch-cohen-
review
another soft zio braves the lobby
- I hope this Prof Schlomo Sands character isn't trying to say that Judaism is about religion, rather than about genetics.
If he is, that being a Jew is about religion rather than 'blood' and race, then he's a nazi.
Nazi definitions of what constituted a Jew were based on tests for religion in the family pedigree, rather than any test for 'Jewish blood', for the very simple fact that there is no such thing as different human races anyway.
To promote that agenda his book ignores archeological and genetic evidence...
- As gathered together by the likes of Himmler and his SS for instance, who scoured Nazi-occupied Europe for Judaica in order to prove their race theories about Jews.
Mind you, maybe there is a DNA-gene thingy for self-hating Jews, who all belong to same tribe of the original twelve, the one all the Prophets came from. Why is it they seem to be everywhere?
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