The opinions of the wingnuts outweight the opinion of the victim's families?
What a bunch of fucking jerk offs.
"the natural bowl shape of the land" is a crescent. Get it? A crescent. See it now?"
The guy who designed it called it a crescent. His title is "Crescent of Embrace".
And you argue that "wingnuts" are the ones calling it a crescent. Your argument is incredibly disingenuous.
"What a bunch of f***ing jerk offs."
Childish profanity. How typical for a lefty site.
It is clearly a crescent.
Wingnuts are the only ones insisting that the fact it is a crescent means that it is a nod to "Islamofascism."
If you're getting worked up about this, dude, I can only imagine how poorly prepared you are for when REAL terrorists rear their ugly heads.
P.S. Dude! Be careful! Stay away from all shopping malls! I read recently that ISLAMOFASCIST TERRORISTS might disguise themselves as AMERICANS to infiltrate MALLS!
Thank GOD for shopping online at Amazon!!!!
You obviuosly haven't read, or are ignoring, my CQ comment about CAIR's outrage over Johnny Hart's crescents.
Now you've gone beyond disingenuous into dishonest. "Wingnuts" aren't the only ones who get "worked up" over crescent symbolism. Muslims do, too. Apparently, you dismiss that by refusing to acknowledge it.
You're hopeless. Go ahead and ban me. Or not. I won't be back.
Go ahead and ban me.
What makes you think you'll be banned?
Interestingly enough...
No matter what angle you look at it, it is what it is. A giant crescent made with red maple trees.
And no matter how you angle you discussion such a thing is widely recognized as a symbol of Islam, and of the people who murdered a few thousand people in New York, and tried to do the same to the people in that plane... who incidently died trying to retake the plane which was hijacked by those Islamic terrorists.
It's obviously what it is. It's instantly recognizable for what it is... heck it's even NAMED what it is.
That it is part of a larger park area... makes no matter. Again, this does not change what it is.
Whether intentionaly so, or whether it was simply a shape chosen by an unthinking designer... it is still what it is.
And it's no more appropriate on such a memorial, than building a cute park out 6 trees in a circular garden, with triangluar shaped walkways that oh... ... accidently of course... resembled a Star of David... in a memorial to dead Palestinians.
And if you can't realize why that irritates some folks... there's little hope of a rational thought escaping your brain.
Could a wingnut point me to a statement made by at least one of the architects that specifically identifies the crescent as a symbol of Islam?
The history of the crescent as an Islamic symbol is not nearly as clear cut as say the cross/crucifix is to Christianity. In all fairness to Muslims, the symbol has become associated with them, not adopted.
So, analogies to the Nazi swastika are fatuous.
But how about we go ahead and ignore these facts. Let's assume that the crescent is a reference to the Islamic faith and/or the Muslim world. Does all the outrage from the right imply that they believe we were attacked by Islam?
Bear in mind that there are Muslim citizens in the United States, and they are similarly vulnerable to terrorist attacks. And I don't need to remind anyone that there are Muslims among our servicemen and women.
I'm beginning to see how my assumptions regarding the "Arab internment" crowd were completely incorrect. They are much louder and shameless than I would have liked to imagine.
Good grief! Mike D of SC is upset about crescents? Then why the H doesn't he start a campaign to get it off his own state flag, and when he's accomplished that, he can come back and annoy us again.
Great point, Joy!
South Carolina state flag
Dear wingnuts and pundits (Yes, that means you, Jesse):
It's not a "crescent". It's a semi-circle or, if you're into topology, an incomplete torus.
In order for it to be a crescent, you'd have to imagine a gradiated thickness of the outline that isn't actually there. Like so many other figments of your outrage manufacturing imaginations.
Now shut the fuck up and let the adults talk.
Where did the banning paranoia come from?
I remember the night I smoked my first joint...
Uh, Rev. Mykeru? First of all, the gradiated thickness IS there if you view it from overhead. (Albeit quantized, it's there.) And secondly, the artist himself calls it a "crescent of embrace."
So STFU yourself, asshole.
My god?! When the light hits arms of the wall at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial just right, it kinda forms a crescent shape on the ground. But Islam wasn't around in the 70's right? Right? Goddamn Arabs. I knew they had something to do with that war.
South Carolina state flag
well, I'll be an unky's muncle
The wingnut thought process:
This wingnut has taken the time to extract the crescent from the image, rotate it, resize it, strip a crescent from flag of ISLAMOFASCIST TUNISIA then make an animated .gif to prove that the crescent in the memorial REALLY IS A CRESCENT! OH NO!!!
"the gradiated thickness IS there if you view it from overhead"
It also helps to click your heels and say "There's no place like home".
So, bite me.
Mike D started something it appears-just caught this at technorati.
http://badattitudes.com/MT/archi...ves/
002953.html
Ha - that's great.
They're very ignorant of their history. The French croissante is the shape it is to celebrate and commemorate crusader victorys and to mock Muslims by eating their chosen symbol. Somebody should tell them that Muslim killers heart crescents.
As to the memorial itself. I don't have time to check but wasn't that the flight where a gay man was amongst the passengers who overpowered the terrorists? And then sacrificed their lives to save fellow Americans? Yes I'm pretty sure it is. Oh well in that case they needn't worry God is bound to smite it and indeed the whole state once its built.
Excuse me I need to get sick again.
Damn i forgot to close the tag again.
[Fixed. -Ryan]
Mike D. has strangely disappeared. I suppose he's calling all his legislators complaining about his newfound problems back home.
Maybe he's 'phoning FEMA to find out what plans they have to evacuate him when the wrath of God strikes 
I remember the night I smoked my first joint....
You, too?
Thanks Ryan.
Didn't you folks know? Crescents NEVER existed prior to 9/11 and a rise in cultural awareness of the Islamic religion. DAMN YOU SHAPE! DAMN YOU AND YOUR OBVIOUSLY TOTALLY ISOLATED ISLAMIC SYMBOLISM!
I'm right with you guys on this one, Neo-Cons! In fact, I've come up with a few more OBVIOUSLY Pro-Islamic (read: ZOMG! TERRORIST!) crescents that taunt and mock us in plain view. I suggest we destroy these evil crescents of crescent-y doom:
• Along with the already mentioned South Carolina flag, there's the Battle Flag of Texans in the Confederacy
• People who use the Crescent Moon position when practicing yoga
• City of Bath in England
(CON'T)
• Florida's beaches (prolly most beaches for that matter... burn them all to be safe)
• The Crescent-chested Puffbird
• The Crescent School of Music in Utah
• THE MOON
This Sept. 11th is clear Sept. 11th evidence of Sept. 11th TERRORISM existing in Sept. 11th our Sept. 11th post-Sept. 11th Sept. 11th world.
Sept. 11th.
wow Shapeshifters have taken over the world no wonder we're screwed.
OK let's take bets - some of the wingnuts are going to take that seriously. How soon before it becomes a meme?
(Have your screenshot software ready for when they realise they've been had again.)
Mike D in SC, I'm no lefty. And unlike you, I'm not a pansy who's afraid to swear, so suck my dick and swallow the nasty truth!
ha! X-D
Holy shit! Joy, you rule! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Flag_of_South_Carolina There's even a palm tree! I bet there's a bunch of terrorists hiding in the leaves too.
I'm afraid that I am one conservative who actually appreciates your take on this project. It is beautiful and respectful. It will be a wonderful place to visit and remember those who died. I can not imagine anyone who, visiting this spot, would experience any sense of glorifying the terrorists or the fringe version of the faith that motivated their actions. Unfortunately there are moonbats and there are wingnuts and...well...there are those who see Satan in the Proctor and Gamble logo and Islam in the Flight 93 memorial. What more can I say, except thanks....especially for converting the pdf drawing so that it can be posted.
That's a palmetto tree(SC is loaded with them)-not a palm tree.
The "crescent"?. It's a half moon-look it up.
Silly bats, don't even know when they've been mooned, albeit in a half assed fashion...
dummy
cres·cent (krĕs'ənt) pronunciation
n.
1. The figure of the moon as it appears in its first or last quarter, with concave and convex edges terminating in points.
2. Something shaped like a crescent, especially:
1. A curved pastry.
2. A curved street, often presenting a continuous façade, as of row houses.
adj.
1. Crescent-shaped.
2. Waxing, as the moon; increasing.
[Middle English cressaunt, from Anglo-Norman, variant of Old French creissant, from present participle of creistre, to grow, from Latin crēscere.]
I think most of us wingnutters would really be happy if a moonbat would at least answer the following questions, already posed her and at Captain's Quarters. Please, try and actually answer these questions without using invective or name calling.
1. Mike D wrote at CQ: "So, LA, why don't you explain away the outrage expressed by CAIR at Johnny Hart for his B.C. strip showing an outhouse with a crescent moon carved into the door?"
2. From a long post by Dafydd at CQ: " Memorial designs do symbolize the event they memorialize; that's, well, pretty much the definition of a "memorial." People will seek symbols in them. And if the primary design happens, even by sheerest chance, to be the main symbol of the religion in the name of which the terrorists committed the act -- do you really think that is appropriate?"
3. From another post at CQ: "A) Do you deny the Red Cresent is a Symbolic sign for Islam? B)Do you deny it is maybe THE symbolic sign for Islam? C)Do you deny it was a particularly nasty and virulent sub-branch of Islam that is responsible for the deaths of the flight 93 members? D) That said do you STILL maintain the the Red Crescent is an appropriate symbol for this memorial?"
Thanks ... I think if someone could answer these ?'s we might have an actual chance at dialog.
Steve
It reminds me of the Hammer & Sickle.
I'll let somebody else here who is better skilled in interacting with the deranged answer your question, Steve.
Why let's have a RED CROSS. Then everyone will be happy, including the Swiss. (We can serve cheese with holes in it; how degauche). As an added attraction we can have a Crusader's hut. They can teach the little kiddies how to decapitate and catapault (sort of the load and lock of the middle ages). We can have recreations of the battle of Lepanto (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/
A0829458.html) where the Cross overcame the Crescent. We might even have information on the battle of Solferino where the bayonetting was particularly spectacular. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Solferino)
Crescents are in the eye of the beholder (particularly cats).
Oh yea of little faith, caught up in your foolish symbolic idolatry.
Our lord said the Kingdom of God lies within you and also said to sell all you own and give it to the poor and do not put your faith in the things of this world.
I think what our Lord was telling us to throw away all these silly symbols. Flags and crescents and all other manner of evil symbols lead you astray from the word of God.
and therein lies the greatest paradox of our times.
A sea of heathens surround us, proclaiming the Kingdom of God and yet not understanding a word.
First, a crescent is not the symbol of Islam, which really...doesn't have a symbol. (I've actually had this discussion with the leader of a Washington area Islamic center.) The crescent has been been used by some pan-Islamic societies and polities because it was associated with the Ottoman Empire and its bureaucracy. The International Society of the Red Cross accepts Red Crescent associates precisely because the crescent is taken not to be a religious symbol, in the same way the red cross is taken as an inversion of the Swiss flag and a symbol of neutrality. (The Red Cross has refused, in the past and rightly or wrongly, to accept the Israeli society's use of the Star of David because it sees in it religious symbolism.)
As an architect, I can firmly add that this design is not a true crescent--it's a broken circle or a ring, not a crescent like the moon--and will never be appreciated as a crescent, even from the air. The maple trees were probably chosen because they have striking fall foliage and a leafy quality that will permit sunlight to dapple the walks.
I also grew up in South Carolina and have no idea why the flag has a crescent on it, but know very well why the palmetto is there--it commemorates the South Carolina victory over an royal invasion fleet bent on taking Charleston on 28 June 1776. The crescent was actually on the flag under which the South Carolinian's fought that day, and was the insignia of the South Carolina infantry regiments in the Revolutionary War.
Sorry about the bad tag.
[Fixed -Ryan]
The red bellies thought they could sink the SC ships with their superior arms and cannon balls. Instead of cracking timbers the cannon balls just sunk into the palmetto wood sides of the ship and stuck there.....
Answers to Steve's questions:
1. Mike D wrote at CQ: "So, LA, why don't you explain away the outrage expressed by CAIR at Johnny Hart for his B.C. strip showing an outhouse with a crescent moon carved into the door?"
For one thing. Who gives a shit? Is CAIR upset about the memorial? If so, they should probably take a hike. And if you read Hart's explanation, one just realizes the guy is unfunny. Unlike this guy.
2. From a long post by Dafydd at CQ: " Memorial designs do symbolize the event they memorialize; that's, well, pretty much the definition of a "memorial." People will seek symbols in them. And if the primary design happens, even by sheerest chance, to be the main symbol of the religion in the name of which the terrorists committed the act -- do you really think that is appropriate?"
Please read all the great posts above this one. Especially the one that connects the crescent with the Ottoman Empire.
That the cresecent is a symbol of Islam is not a clearly accepted notion. It seems to be associated more with national identitiy over religious identity.
And I even addressed this question in the comments above. What's really going on here, is the Islamophobes are exposing themselves for the assholes they really are.
3. A) Do you deny the Red Cresent is a Symbolic sign for Islam?
No, I don't deny that some consider it a religious symbol of Islam, but I do disagree with those people, even if they happen to be Mulsims.
3. B) Do you deny it is maybe THE symbolic sign for Islam?
Yes, of course.
3. C) Do you deny it was a particularly nasty and virulent sub-branch of Islam that is responsible for the deaths of the flight 93 members?
3. D) That said do you STILL maintain the the Red Crescent is an appropriate symbol for this memorial?
No and No. The branch you're referencing stems from Salafism. Salafists are the "orthodox", superstitious nuts who used to contend that producing images of naturally occuring objects was blasphemous against Allah, hence the greater fixation on the symbolic meaning of colors, where Christians were fixated on relics. So I highly doubt Salafists have histoically embraced any religious symbols depicting the moon.
Also, this begs a followup: You admit that a "sub-branch" was responsible for 9/11 and, by implication, its members do not represent the nearly 1.5 billion other Muslims.
Is it appropriate to punish all Muslims for the acts of just a few?
That's what you're doing here. You're getting riled up over a crescent, which isn't even tangentially related to Islam in the context, but you're forcing it to be related to Islam. Then you are able to conflate the attackers with a "symbol of all Muslims"?
I'd be in complete agreement if the maple groves spelled out "Al Qaeda rocks!" in Arabic. But I'm not seeing that.
In the comments section affixed to a post at Eschaton referencing this very post, one upyernoz has pointed out that from directly above, the red curvy thing is far more reminiscent of part of the Christian Coalition insignia:
http://www.cc.org/content.cfm?id=229
Actually, bedrocktruth, the palmetto logs were used in the walls of what would be called Fort Moultrie. Palmetto wood is like a sponge--there's not much grain to it, ,very fiberous. Very soft, very flexible, which was okay to hold sand into an earthwork, but as a wood for boatbuilding or woodwork, it's no good.
Giving the red crescent thing a little more consideration, I know the International Comittee of the Red Cross predates the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. I would guess that Committees of the Red Crescent sprang up in response in the Empire, and outlasted them. Why a red crescent? Well, the Ottoman emphasis, and a red cross resembled a crusader's shield, which was going to sell poorly in the Ottoman lands. The cross is associated with European power and influence entirely outside the cross's religious significance. The crescent is today is seen barely as an Islamic symbol, and I would heartily guess that the salafists and wahhabinists and jihadist set detest the crescent as a symbol of modern Turkish and historic Ottoman secularism and compromise. Mostly, I hear "the Black Flag of Islam" and see Koranic verses from these guys. Country's with Islamic populations and crescents would be those who revel in the former worldly power of the Ottomans--Turkey, among them--while others to whome the Turks were vile oppressors don't like it so much, but accept the Red Crescent societies as secular charitable institutions that complement purely Islamic ones (such as the charitable, non-violent arm of Hizbullah that runs clinics, although they're hardly purely charitable on their own terms).
As an aside: At least most wingers no longer assume "Mohammedans" worship idols of Termagant. Baby steps...
Thanks for the tag fix, Ryan. Now if I could get you to correct my spelling, you'd be the ideal blogger for comments.
Wow, thank God for the righties!
Just this morning, I was enjoying my tasty Krispy Creme glazed donut. I took that first, much anticipated bite, hesitating for a brief moment, while I admired the uncorrupted crystaline glaze drizzled over the platonic perfection contained in the torus of fried dough.
After that first wonderful bite I laid down my donut to enjoy a sip of strong black coffee.
And then it happened! I glanced down, and to my horror discovered that the remaining portion of the donut was, yes, you guessed it: A CRESCENT!
I leapt to my feet, and backed away, frozen by the prospect of what might happen to me, the creator of such a powerfully evil symbol. I even detected a faint wiff of sulphur.
Please, right wingers, I'm begging, how can I ever eat my beloved Krispy Cremes again, knowing that every morning, I contribute to the ongoing erosion of the safety of my country and my fellow Americans. Is there a procedure for cutting the donut so that I can be sure to stay in (the Christian) God's good graces, or at least Michelle Malkin's.
Or perhaps there is a time limit for the bad mojo to work, like the 12 second rule for food that falls on the floor. I will happily wolf them down if that will do the trick.
Please help me, my Conservative friends, for I do enjoy my Krispy Cremes.
Nobody eats Krispy Cremes anymore.
They're always sold out.......
In the phase of the next new moon I intend to go out and howel at it, drip saliva from the edges of my mouth, grow fangs. Then my plan is to search out Ms. Maulkin and eat her. Damn the resulting emesis that will follow!
That is after the makeup, hairdo, jewelry, business suit and pumps are removed and sent to the Red Crescent.
What a load of crap. It's a gorgeous memorial and as is the case recently the rightischlag will continue shooting themselves in the foot over something they know absolutely nothing about.
Where's Osama anyway?
Righties: Enlist your kids in the military NOW! They are needed.
"search out Ms. Maulkin and eat her."
Uh, um, don't b'lieve I'd of told that one bud...
I can't believe that I missed this further piece of perfidy until now. Maple trees! The symbol of Canada! Canada has French people in it and France has Muslims in it!
Invade Canada fortwith to avenge this insult (they've got oil).
BRT:
"search out Ms. Maulkin and eat her."
Uh, um, don't b'lieve I'd of told that one bud...
Oh, I forgot. Republicans don't like oral sex.
BRT would you like me to send you some garlic scented aftershave just in case?
All right, no one appreciates my pious religiosity here, but I learned my lessons well enough.
What do we do with those evil Shriners who not only wear a fez with a crescent, but the sword as well.
Surely they must eat the children in all those hospitals.
Seriously, isn't it time to move away from the coverup of the real agenda and move to what really matters- the fact that the politicians are stealing us blind down here in the lower 90% of the economic strata.
The wingnuts can't see that they're being taken for a silly roller coaster ride with these silly child like disputes.
As my daddy used to say, "It's hog killing time".
I appreciated your pious religio-indignation, London. More than you could know. 
Man - this is one of our best comment threads ever. Kudos to all of you with wicked and clever senses of humor. I love it.
Don't you people get it? This is all part of the GodlessCommieAtheistJewLiberalIslamofascist plot to sap and impurify OUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!
Charles "Squeaky" Johnson's "outrage" is manufactured. His attempt to cash-in on on his racist hate-site, LGF, is floundering. "Pajamas Media" is a fiasco and his base is eroding as the far-far right loonies that populate his comments have more and more turned his blog into a wingnut chat room.
Christ! As a graphic designer, I can tell you that people see just about anything and everything in marks (logos) you design for them.
They project onto that mark their own misconceptions, self-doubts, approval seeking, self-aggrandizing-
It gives you a window into someone's true character.
And designing public monuments or structures? OH MAN, you will never please everyone, which leads to disappointing everyone!
.
Personally, I think the crescent is a dead giveaway that the satanists at Proctor and Gamble are behind the whole thing.
The Trees....They're everywhere....THE TREES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love it when people completely sell our for an argument, then realize they are walking the stupid plank, but refuse, REFUSE to give up. The monument is a beautiful monument. It is not baroque or fascist or ridiculous, it is solemn, and natural. It's just a beautiful thing. All they had to do was not use red for the trees in the model (even though that illustrates a striking feature of the chosen trees).
The crescent is really more of an Ottoman thing than an Islamic thing. I actually just talked to someone in Cairo about that last night, because I was curious as to why the crescent was so important for Mubarak to have as a symbol on the election ballot.
"far-far right loonies that populate his comments have more and more turned his blog into a wingnut chat room."
Like-Krunchy Kos isn't the breakfast food of moonbat champions?
aldorossi,
Don't worry about your bitten Krispy Kreme unless a line drawn from the centerpoint of a line connecting the two bitten ends and the high point of the intact circle is heading 55-60 degrees northeast (if you're on the East Coast that is). Find a compass if you are the excitable type.
Hope this helps!
mark from ireland,
It's worse than you think! Here is a Royal Canadian Navy badge:
http://gwardnet.d2g.com/mac/Crescent.gif
It's even named the Crescent!!!!
Yes aldorossi--JillK. Makes a good point. Also, next time, take the time to divide the donut into quarters (make sure to cut along both axes simultaneously, or you will create TWO crescents[!]). Then, move the quartered pieces equidistantly apart. Note the negative space between--a holy cross!
That should fix things. Saying "get thee behind me, Man-Goat" should help too.
Bob @ 09.10.05 - 3:43 pm
My heart bleeds for him … no really!
Almighty God, JillK. That symbol is so very evil. So very...evil.
Umm, this is really obvious, but -
Yeah, it's probably a reference to Islam. So fucking what?
In case you hadn't noticed, YOU'RE NOT AT WAR WITH ISLAM. Right? Right???
Isn't that the point? That while you are at war with terrorists who use Islam as a cover for their extremely unIslamic activities, you have no beef with Islam itself? That being intelligent, enlightened Americans, you're capable of distinguishing between OVER A BILLION FUCKING PEOPLE and a tiny bunch of hotheads? I'd say the memorial makes that point pretty effectively. But I've forgotten something. Damn! What was it?
Oh yeah. America has millions of racist fundamentalist hotheads who genuinely believe that they ARE at war with an entire religion, and consequently take this entirely innocuous design as a personal affront.
If you're offended by the memorial, you're no better than the people you claim to despise. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if the designer intended to make that point as well.
I always thought that the fact that Hudson Bay is crescent shaped was suspicious JillK but this is blatant!
The "crescent" first made it's appearance in colonial America on little out house doors-ask Snuffy Smith.
Inside there were at least a couple of full moons, sometimes more depending on the affluence of the laird and the size of the family-not to mention the usual moonbat gallery hanging off the rafters...
Somebody's going to have to do something about the Gulf of Jeb er Mexico too.
http://www.csit.fsu.edu/supercom.../Gulf-
large.jpg
So the mooners were being mooned BRT? OK fair enough.
Pinko Punko, why should they avoid red? There's nothing Islamic about red. Green is a more Islamic color.
All true Amerikan Konservatives must avoid the third letter!
Kommunists!
In answer to the question:
[Update: Is South Carolina an Islamic state?!]
no but some Talibushistas want something very similar to oh … Afghanistan under Mullah Omar
http://christianexodus.org/
http://greenvilleonline.com/apps.../507120311/
1004
if you're a South Carolinan - meet your new neighbours
Chawunky,
I agree it is an evil symbol. The crescent. The maple leaf. It is all coming together! We cannot escape the conclusion that Canada is an Islamofascist dictatorship with its evil tentacles penetrating into every element of our society: Krispy Kreme donuts, memorial design, the Christian Coalition, South Carolina, yoga, and Pillsbury ready-to-bake rolls! Where will it strike next?
Perhaps Crescent City, CA??!? They have something called the "Low Flush Initiative". What does that mean? Is it code??!????
http://www.crescentcity.org
Sorry. Typo. "Low Flow Program". Still, what does it mean?!?!?!?
It's a piendish flot© to ensure perfect breeding conditions for moonbats.
Jeeez I'm channelling BRT ... wait a minute ... OK which one of you jokers lined my baseball cap with tinfoil?
" piendish flot©"
Somehow or another I thought that might appeal to your sense of humour
It's worse than you think! Here is a Royal Canadian Navy badge:
http://gwardnet.d2g.com/mac/Crescent.gif
PLEASE BOMB US!!!
Operation "Kanuckistan" is gearing up even as we speak ummmm type.
Wonder if they'll build a memorial to the USAF fighter jets that shot it out of the sky... hmmmmmmm....
Wonder if they'll build a memorial to the USAF fighter jets that shot it out of the sky...
I thought it was an unmarked helicopter that took it down.
Re: "Man - this is one of our best comment threads ever. Kudos to all of you with wicked and clever senses of humor. I love it.
The Liberal Avenger"
First time here. (I'm not even sure how I got here??) but I agree with you. Sarcasm at it's best!! Thanks for the smiles after all the heavy news.
Please come back, Sam. We need your DNA for our stagnant gene pool!
read your history, people --- the origins of the crescent extend back to (as mentioned above) the Ottoman Empire, at about the same time (give or take a century) as the Crusades. during those times, when travel & trade was extensive between the Near East and Europe, many many symbols began to merge and become part of a shared cross-cultural lexicon. The American Red Cross is one of 5 organizations that make up the International Red Cross-Red Crescent Organization.
This is not to downplay the suspicion it inspires, however. The merging of Christian and Near Eastern cultures thru symbols is common in groups of society who decended from those who traveled and integrated with them both --- the Knights Templar. these are the guys who gave us banking, standing armies, medical relief, etc. in later forms, their off-shoots gave us the judicial & legal system, international economics, parliamentary politics and the U.S. Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The current organizations that work together with very similar goals as their predecessors include the Scottish Rite Freemasons, the Council on Foreign Relations (Hillary, Greenspan), the Jesuits of Georgetown University in DC, the Knights of Malta (George Bush - who claims to be 'Born Again' whatever that is), Oxford Rhodes Scholars (Clinton) --- the list goes on.
These groups are not inherently macheivellian or orwellian or whatnot, but we all need to take a long hard look at our shared history, and the actions of those who are most intimately acquainted with (in bed with, if you like) with this blurring of the lines. maybe a cultural uprising was what we needed instead of war.
But...but...but...what about the Islamofascists?
xlili --
You're right, though. War, as it is waged, is always in the present. The fighting of wars, the death of human beings, is the choice of those in power at the moment.
Otherwise, no one would achieve prowess and heroism in the name of death.
There are only so many shapes to go around (no pun intended).
The Denver Airport has four wings sticking out in four directions, which had the nutters screaming "Swastika!"
So it's a crescent? So what? The world's full of them. Should we forbid people to look at the night sky?
Oh, and about that name "Allah"? Ask any Arabic-speaking Christian, and they'll tell you Jesus is the only begotten son of Allah (al-lah, "the God"). So all those guys heaping disdain on the name of Allah are . . . anti-Christian.
John Burt:
Would you mind making a phone call to Michelle Malkin on our behalf?
"Will the circle be unbroken
by and by, Lord, by and by
There's a better home a-waiting
in the sky, Lord, in the sky"
Always thought bluegrass was an Islamic plot . . .
I went over to LGF and skim read through the comments on the thread and the continuation thread. It is truly remarkable the current fad amongst them that the thing is not only crescent shaped but because there's black stone involved the place is a copy of … wait for it! … Mecca!
All I could think of was the Bandar Log in the Jungle Book go here for the lyrics:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/rgs...s/jngl-
Log.html
"the LGF thread alone already has more than 700 angry comments!)."
Wull, we're pushing 100 for only the second time I can remember.
Poster number 100 gets a (xerox) copy of Bush's National Guard record autographed by LA, sgo, Up,
Jimmy-AND!- your choice of any other two bats
in the grotto
Who will be the winner? Tune in next post to find out.
Great thread, great comments peoples!
And Ryan, you were right on, although now that I am the former sleep deprived and not nearly as intoxicated poster boy I have decided eating Meeshell is not a good idea.
I'll take that autographed copy of Bush's National Guard Record!
:o)
Congrats, JillK!
But like the Pentagon, I seem to have misplaced the forementioned document(s).
hehe - JillK is from the Boston Chapter of "Billionares for Bush."
It's OK, Ryan-just make one up. Dan Rather is giving classes on how to do it...
now that I am the former sleep deprived and not nearly as intoxicated poster boy I have decided eating Meeshell is not a good idea.
JimmyTheVet | Email | Homepage | 09.11.05 - 11:18 am | #
Toxicologists the world over heave a sigh of relief …
Take a look at the froth being spewed
Hey!
Bedrock...dude...
A half moon looks like this --> D
That SC moon? It sure doesn't look like a half moon to me....
She's right BRT it's a croissante
I just had a croissant for breakfast.. am I Islamic now or did I show "I've eaten Islam for breakfast" or did I just stop my tummy from rumbling?
Darling!
I'm not just in the Chapter, I'm the Richly Upholstered Chair!
And don't you forget it!
:o)
And Ryan, just like our great nation, I'm going to forget all about Georgie's records. Sigh.
No, a half moon looks like this...u
Full moon.......uu
Remember too, this is a South Carolina half moon. Warn't never meant fer yankees in the first place.:=)
I just had a croissant for breakfast.. am I Islamic now or did I show "I've eaten Islam for breakfast" or did I just stop my tummy from rumbling
Deep Breath:
Itmeansthatyou'
reahalloumieatingsurrendersimiananyourinleaguewith
thefrenchcommysympandyouranislamofascistwhowantsto
turnallourmenfolkintocatamiteswhodomothinbutmouche
aroundalldaywiththeriyashmaksripplinginthebreezewa
itinfortheirwelfarecheckstoarrivesoohyeahanyouprob
ablyeatthatfurrinmueslistuffwhichsuresoundsfurrina
nislamofascisttomecositithasanemanayouananellinit …
Did I miss anything?
Thanks to all for help with the Krispy Kreme issue.
I had to suffer through a bear claw from Ralph's this morning, should have checked back earlier.
Now, there's a bundt cake in the fridge that may become a problem after dinner tonight...
Look at what I found on my keyboard... http://www.missdynamite.com/
cres...rescent_key.jpg Dare I press it?
Where did you get that computer anyway, Sirk?
A Marrakech flea market?
From the Soviet Canuckistan.
Ummm shouldn't that be "The People's Marxist-Leninist-Islamo-Fascist-Republic-of -Canuckistan-Why-Do-you thing-the-Maple-Leaf-is-RED-you-running-dog-"
I'm sorry i'm laugihng too hard to keep this going
What it really comes down to.
Nature symbols = pagan = bad = must destroy at all costs, even sane and logical thought.
Christian's hate how they've yet to fully kill paganism despite centuries of trying.
Intolerance at it's fruitiest.
Hey, I saw! A red (my sister says it was orange) crescent moon a couple of nights ago... does that mean everyone that saw it's light are now terroists?
Yes - if it was red you're a commie if it was Orange you're about to hop on a plane to Belfast and join the Ulster Volunteer Force
You wrote, "Who likes crescents? The French? Well, yes, the French do like croissants and that would be bad enough..." Another wrote, "The French croissante is the shape it is to celebrate and commemorate crusader victorys and to mock Muslims by eating their chosen symbol." And another wrote, "the origins of the crescent extend back to (as mentioned above) the Ottoman Empire, at about the same time (give or take a century) as the Crusades." They are both historically inaccurate. They also reflect an anti-Catholic bias in their deliberate invocation of the unfortunate word ‘crusade’. The truth is that the croissant came into being centuries after these famous mediaeval Christian campaigns of self defense. In its origin it is in fact an image of the Islamic crescent. It was designed by Viennese bakers to ridicule a defeated Ottoman INVASION in 1683. You may recall, that was the last time – certainly not the first, even by a millennium – that an Islamic attack on a historically non-Muslim nation had to be repelled.
I imagine the terrorists themselves would be very pleased with the memorial. On the other hand, as many people like to point out, the 9-11 terrorist should not be taken as representatives of “true” Islam. Therefore their horrible symbolic act is no more a sign of “true” Islam than the proposed memorial. Alas, they have something in common after all.
Besides it's not really a crescent... it's an unfinished circle... or a really BIG letter C... I'm not certain which... I haven't decided. Crescents much like crossiants tend to have a little something more than a sliver to them. It needs more in the middle for it to be a crescent in my book.
Really it looks more like a giant C.
D'oh! *Hits self on head*... it's a christian symbol after all... It's the LETTER "C". brought to you by the word C-hristian and the number 40.
It's all so obvious now... *shakes head in amusement*
They also reflect an anti-Catholic bias in their deliberate invocation of the unfortunate word ‘crusade’.
Well speaking as a conservative Catholic that's the first time I've ever been called "Anti-Catholic" - truly the blogosphere is a weird and wonderful place.
I'll check what you say about the croissants as I was going from memory on that one.
"The truth is that the croissant came into being centuries after these famous mediaeval Christian campaigns of self defense."
What I have italicised utterly unhistorical and quite frankly is outright garbage. I think I'll ignore postings from you in future.
sheesh
In its origin it is in fact an image of the Islamic crescent. It was designed by Viennese bakers to ridicule a defeated Ottoman INVASION in 1683.
GONG! Wrong !
sorry but you have bitten into the croissant
myth...
click on the croissant link please...
interesting - thanks sgo - I wonder if the explanations I've read of how the "Vienna roll" got it's name come under the same heading. Time to hit the search engines
Take a closer look at the memorial's orientation. Yes, the crescent faces Mecca.
And it also faces Rome.
If I were an architect in Murdoch's position, and I stumbled across the extraordinary fact that Mecca, Rome and the Flt 93 crash site all lie on the same Great Circle (approximately), I would not be able to resist the temptation of using that Great Circle as a design element.
But then, Murdoch claims the crescent is simply oriented in the direction the plane was flying when it crashed.
Is it possible the hijackers intentionally oriented the plane towards Mecca when they went down? And Murdoch has unwittingly memorialized this act?
Take a step back. There's an strange comedy afoot.
If I were ...
You're not.
But then, Murdoch Claims ...
No he does not claim he states.
Is it posssible ...
Rhetorical question we await your answer eagerly.
Take a step ....
Yes indeed there is a very strange comedy afoot. Unfortunately you're late to this particular party and nobody's laughing.
Your attempts to flesh out a plot are weak.
Is it possible that your local community college has a creative writing class?
I've uncovered another Islamofascist in our midst:
http://www.goantiques.com/search...&
source=VYZ4474
Red MAPLE trees!!!!????
Why, this is obviously a subtle salute to all those traitors who talked about moving to Canada if Bush won the election! And, and, something to do woth softwood lumber, and socialism...
I mean, it's soooo obvious! [/wingnut]
The Saudi flag (remember, most of the hijackers were Saudis, although I'm not sure about those on Flight 93) is actually green and white with no red (red is the Republican color). Nor does it have a crescent; just Arabic characters and a sword. You'd think that if a crescent was really "the symbol of Islam" that what is the most arguably Islamic of countries -- containing the holy sites of Mecca and Medina -- would have a crescent on its flag. But no.
Uhhhhh excuse me, but……….How in the world does this design get picked to be the winning design over the other ones??? This design was just one of over a thousand proposals, and clearly this architect’s design does have symbolic overtones [even if only a few Americans notice it] that cannot be rationally dismissed.
However, let’s not blame the architect, RATHER…. BLAME THE INCOMPETENT LEADERSHIP OF THIS COMMITTEE [IDIOTS] WHO PICKED THIS DESIGN OUT OF A THOUSAND!!! Coincidence??????? As an American, I am utterly ashamed and we Americans need to make those who picked this design personally accountable.
Uhhhh..........also...........fyi, for those who don't know this........the Red Crescent is the symbol of the Islamic equivalent of the Red Cross.
I can only imagine what any muslim/islamic person will think when they see this Memorial to Flight 93........they'll probably shake their heads and wonder about how ignorant and uninformed we Americans must be.
BLAME THE INCOMPETENT LEADERSHIP OF THIS COMMITTEE [IDIOTS] WHO PICKED THIS DESIGN OUT OF A THOUSAND!
Absolutely. Now go explain to the families of the victims of 9/11 why you don't like the way they choose to remember them. Go on, scoot.
I'd be honored and with great respect and humility, more than happy to educate what few of them were on the committee.
Why does Comcast hate America?
(check their logo)
Ever since this silly 'outrage' came to light, I've sighted red crescents all over the place. Might be fun to catalouge them all.
“The idea of the Crescent of Embrace, Murdoch said, is to be a gesture of healing and bonding.”
I am "justcurious" as to whom it is that Flight 93 architect Murdoch wishes us to be healed and bonded? There were the triumphant who fought back on Flight 93 and those of a Fundamentalist Islamic faith who perpetrated all of 9/11. In fall there will be a red crescent by his own plan and he wishes healing and bonding. I question anyone who fails to see a theme here.
Have the wingnuts offered any alternative designs... perhaps it should resemble the Abu Ghraib human pyramid or the spot should be marked by "Gitmo, Jr.: The Islamofascist youth labor camp" or maybe just a giant bronze collosus of GWB playing a guitar.
I think it's wrong to have a crescent (which, like it or not, is represnted on the flags of many Muslim countries and therefore can legitimately be considered a symbol), but if the families of those murdered don't mind, it's their perogative.
The Islamic calendar is also based on the visibility of the crescent moon, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence and the crescent and Islam have no connection.
Some of the other designs would, I think, have honored the dead without appearing (even if unintentionally) to honor the killers.
The profanity is amusing - apparently anyone who doesn't agree with The Liberal Avenger is deserving of it.
Further proof of the "The People's Marxist-Leninist-Islamo-Fascist-Republic-of -Canuckistan-Why-Do-you thing-the-Maple-Leaf-is-RED-you-running-dog-":
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/i...altv/
index.html
(the crescent is red and, on my computer, is oriented towards Mecca!)
They try to fool us by only showing American programming but no doubt there are subliminal messages inserted every few minutes.
Uhhhhhh........Am I the only person in this ignorant country that knows that the "Red Crescent" is the official name of the Islamic equivalent to the American "Red Cross".
Makes me wonder what any muslim person [American or not] might think when they see/hear of this memorial.
I am ashamed that this Flight 93 Memorial design got to be this, and more ashamed of HOW it got to be this!!!!!!!!
Embrace????? Please.
Crescent?????? Now there's an American icon and tribute to 9/11 to remember!!!!
I wonder what those courageous people on Flight 93 would think if they knew in advance of what this memorial's name [and controversy] would become?
I am honored by your support.
darrelplant,
Um, I guess you are 12 or something. Let me give you a history lesson. Red is actually the color of Communism. It has been since the October Revolution in 1918. Thus, we referred to the Soviet Army as the Red Army. They did so as well, and without shame, because Red (Krazney in Russian) was the color of Communism. Only five short years ago, when Al Gore lost to George Bush did Red come to represent the Republicans.
That is because the Media figured that it might be politically useful if the "Democrat" Socialist Party were able to distance themselves from the failed USSR by portraying the Republicans as Red.
I realize you are a kid, and don't remember the Cold War. It is not your fault. Blame your history "teacher".
I realize that quoting out of context is a typical L³iberal trait, but let's do the full quote, shall we:
How about we round up a thousand Islamonazis, and use their blood in a human sacrifice to consecrate the ground?
It would be no more obscene.
Ah, context.
It is only everything.
Yeah, I don't post off of LGF as me usually, but I felt that this required a personal response.
Don't expect another.
I probably wouldn't have caught onto how much it looks like Muslim stuff when I first saw it (without others pointing it out). So I might have liked it at first myself.
But if it had been pointed out to me afterwards, I'd probably change my mind. I'm sure many of the victim's family members might rethink it at least.
You sure get worked up over things. Maybe you're Muslim and want to see this go through? Just sayin'
I think it's beautiful. And apparently, so do the families of the victims.
But the racists from the right need something to rip apart.
Hi
To write the letter, it is necessary ...
hi
Why I can not insert the image into my message?
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