Now, my knowledge of history is incredibly poor, but what about ancient China? It was isolationist and innovative...
China is traditionally politically isolationist, though not always (Ask the Mongols and the British). It is not geographically isolated from the world. It also has a large population over a large landmass, which naturally provided the impetus for needed innovations.
Even this political isolationism eventually came to stifled Chinease thought.
Wikipedia actually has a whole entry on ancient China's foreign policy. It points out that though China could sometimes be isolationist, it had long been a center of trade, and had contact with the Roman Empire as far back as the second century AD.
China was also geographically 'lucky' under Diamond's theory. Being on a similar latitude to the Middle East, it shared a similar climate and year, and so farming innovations caught on there very early.
I have not read his work, but Diamond sounds a bit too enviormentaly determinist for me. Social/Poltical/Economic breakthoughs have to lot to do with sucess. I don't see how Wakanda can become high tech without a tremendous amount of different materials. Even if they were produced naturally in it's borders, all the labor it would need to dig and refine it and...
I think were putting to much thought in trying to rationalize the arbitrary whim of a comic book writer.
Regarding China, there's also the fact that it is so incredibly huge that it could provide the "trade" element internally. Plus, with its habit of falling into civil war every couple centuries. . .
Frankly I think Hudlin's just kinda nuts here.
Best to leave the historical development and review of Wakanda to Priest and the old works of.... Defenders writer (Gerber?) ("Panther's Rage" writer), and Lee and Kirby and just leave the telling of new stories to whomever writes Panther now.
The history? It's done with.
Hopefully not literally, though given his nigh-total retcon of everything Wakanda-related, that seems to be what the current writer wants.
I have not read his work, but Diamond sounds a bit too enviormentaly determinist for me.
You're not alone; it's a leading criticism of his work. I just happen to find it new (to me) and insightful.
I don't see how Wakanda can become high tech without a tremendous amount of different materials.
For one, Africa appears to be relatively weak in terms of iron deposits. The development of steel actually began in East and West Africa, but I would imagine that a limited supply of such a vital early resource would hurt quick advancement.
I think were putting to much thought in trying to rationalize the arbitrary whim of a comic book writer.
I know, but the material was new to me and, I presumed, the reader. Plus, I just had to work in the Diamond-Klaw thing somehow. I plan to scan in an old picture of the villain.
The other huge problem with Hudlin's history is the idea that Wakanda was always isolationist even though it was always very high-tech. Why on earth would it be? We're talking about arrogant, warrior-cult people, with enough knowhow to ensure relatively low mortality rates and hence population overgrowth, surrounded by primitives. This is the formula that bred the Persian Empire, the Roman Empire, the United States western expansion, the Mongol Golden Horde, etc. (yes, the Mongols were high tech. They had better horses than anybody in history, and the best cavalry weapons of the time.) I don't know of a single case of a society like that becoming isolationist. China, is not a counterexample -- how do you think it got that BIG? Plus they periodically invaded Korea, Indonesia, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.
Oh, you could probably plaster together some kind of explanation -- e.g., the Wakandans fought incessantly among themselves for religious reasons and kept their population low (although in that case you'd expect some of the outlying warlords to try their luck outwards), or, the Wakandans did have a big empire once and it didn't work and they learned from that (because historically, people are so good at learning from history). But basically, this is stooopid.
I think were putting to much thought in trying to rationalize the arbitrary whim of a comic book writer.
Isn't that the point of this web-site?
Well, there's genuine nitpicking, and there's serious plot holes. IMHO, the difference between them is whether it materially effects the plot.
Here, it is the latter, as the new history of Wakanda is a major part of this god-awful series.
I work for the publisher of Guns, Germs, and Steel, and this entry just tickled me pink. Thanks! I'm passing it onto the sales reps for the company--but not, I'm sorry, to Diamond. Not that he would probably know who Klaw was, but let's not tick the man off, shall we?
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