My goodness! I was just wondering how diplomatic immunity worked regarding murder yesterday (due to an episode of Law & Order: SVU). Thank you so much! All my questions are answered.


isn't it persona non grata?


I imagine there is one other sort of possibility: if the country of residence had good reason to believe that the murder was actually ordered/sanctioned by the other government, they could declare war.

Also, aren't consulates regularly placed inside embassies for the purposes of avoiding the issue of immunity??


isn't it persona non grata?

On second glance, quite possibly. One page I used for my research used 'gratis,' and a Google search for the same produces a good number of results, but 'grata' produces a lot more.


Also, aren't consulates regularly placed inside embassies for the purposes of avoiding the issue of immunity??

I don't think so. A country only has one embassy per foreign nation, but it usually has multiple consular offices in major cities. Hence, Metropolis is all but certain to have a consulate, but Mr. Lyon's home nation's embassy would be in Washington DC, not in Kansas.


To add another link, there's a pretty good article on diplomatic immunity at The Straight Dope, and it includes one particular bit I found interesting:

In the United States, the State Department maintains a twenty-four-hour hotline for use by local law enforcement to verify the current status of any arrestee who claims diplomatic immunity. Once his identity as a diplomat is established, he must be released.

And of course, if he sticks around long enough after being declared persona non grata, he can then be arrested and tried for his particular crimes.


Gravatar I believe there was a case in the past 5-10 years of a diplomat involved with a traffic death being prosecuted.

Ah yes, here's something about it.

He was the #2 diplomat from the Republic of Georgia. Georgia waived immunity, and so he was charged.

The accident in which young Waltrick died seemed particularly egregious. Makharadze's speeding car, which police estimated was traveling 80 miles an hour, slammed into a smaller vehicle at a busy Washington intersection. The second auto was knocked into the air and crashed onto a third car in which the girl was a passenger.

A hospital test later showed Makharadze's blood alcohol level was 0.185, which is above the 0.10 level at which a driver is considered intoxicated.


Gravatar Was this the same episode where Lex suggested that the things Prof. Fine was say were libelous? That part irked me. You can't libel someone in a speech or lecture. That's slander. (On a side note, kudos to Raimi and the Spider-man gang for getting the differene right).


Gravatar Doom has found this post...instructional and illuminating. If accursed Richards has not read it, then all is well.


Gravatar I'm not the biggest Latin expert around (and certainly not a legal one), but it's definitely grata, not gratis. Persona non grata... person who is not favorable. Gratis means free of charge, so persona non gratis would (in possibly bad Latin) be a person you have to pay for.

Always important to know the difference between soon-to-be-exiled diplomats and prostitutes. :D


Gravatar Was this the same episode where Lex suggested that the things Prof. Fine was say were libelous? That part irked me. You can't libel someone in a speech or lecture. That's slander.

I'm pretty sure that was another episode, but you're right about the libel mistake. I remember pointing it out to my brother, who also remembered the Spider-Man scene.

I'm not at all certain on this point, but I think it's possible that some states might treat a broadcasted speech as libel, rather than slander, since broadcasts share certain traits with publication. Here in Georgia, we have a third category for broadcasted defamation: the wonderfully-named 'defamacast.' In any case, this is all moot since Professor Fine wasn't being broadcast.

And I wish I still have that episode saved on my DVR, because if my memory served, he didn't say anything that was actually defamatory. At least, nothing that we heard.


Gravatar Well, considering that nothing that he said was actually false, Prof. Fine was in the clear that way, too. Of course, he'd have to prove that it was true, but the truth is always a defense against Libel and Slander.


Gravatar Of course,he was claiming to be writing a book about Lex, so in warning him against libel he could have been suggesting that actual publication was not in Fine's best interest.

And of course truth is an absolute defense against either slander or libel charges, but in order to win such an affirmative defense you need to 1) be able to offer some kind of proof of anything defamatory you had to say and 2) be able to afford lawyers who can defend you in court and present your evidence there in a way convincing to a jury. Both might be rather difficult for your average whistle blower to do when fending off a multibillionaire. Further, if you gathered your evidence of the plaintiff's actual wrongdoings in questionable ways, you might win the libel or slander suit, but open yourself up to criminal charges brought by the state for things like breaking & entering, publication of classified data, illegal recording of conversations without the other parties' knowledge, and so on....


Gravatar Well none of that even touches that the current Luthor subplot doesn't make sense at all.

More on that... in ony of my blogs....

clever plug...


Gravatar I'd like to see a longer article on Diplomatic Immunity in comics since its often used by Dr Doom and (these days) Black Adam. It can make for ince drama but it's usually grossly missused.
my understanding is first someone must by an accredited diplomat with permission to enter the country. While a head of state is automatically entitled to immunity he first must have permission to enter the country. So Dr Doom teleporting into the US of Black Adam flying in (both presumably ignoring immigration and port of entry) would not. Since they are heads of state they would in fact be invading, an act of war.
And that's even before they blow up buildings or kill people.


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