Well I'll be voting yes as I'm strongly in favour of a stronger Europe which is inevitably the way of the future and good for a small country like Ireland. Free market FTW! Give us your reasons against it there. I visited the voteno.ie site and disagree with practically everything. That Declan Ganley fellow is definitely getting around, I'm worried about this being passed.
Georgie,
A stronger Europe won't be good for a small country like Ireland. It will mean our voice will be drowned out by bigger nations if this treaty is endorsed.
My primary reason against it is that that it will transfer power away from this state and towards Brussels. I hope to interview someone from the voteno.ie site very soon so stay tuned for that.
I'm with you on this, UI. It's a big fat NO from me.
Oh, and welcome back.
First of all, you need to understand what the word 'irredentism' means.
Secondly, you need to understand that there is no stance where 'the EU comes and ruins my life'. Even your separatist isolated little self is represented at its level by your country's official. Your image on the EU is direly in need of a realistic re-evaluation. There is no 'going over your head' as you are a part of the decision-making process. With the Lisbon Treaty, due to the new powers of the Parliament if anything, you would be EVEN MORE represented.
But why look at the actual content, eh? Why look beyond your borders? As you said it, I'm dreaming of a federalist nightmare and try to impose on innocent little Irishmen my own evil designs.
Do try, for once in your life, my nationalist buddy, to think of politiccs beyond values and ideals and use cold hard logic. If there is greater utility for Ireland to be on its own... go ahead, start the revolution. But we both know that is not the case.
Oh and do read a document before so fervently attacking it. I'm tired of simplistic analyses who are so blinded by the democratic bypass (which I don't like myself, by the way), that deny a whole series improvements.
I wish you good luck in having the time of your life in your United Ireland. Don't come knocking if sovereignity and pride in one's identity don't feed you well enough though.
Thanks, JG.
Ender,
It is you who needs a drastic re-evaluation as you don't seem to understand what the Lisbon Treaty will mean for this country. Far from advocating separation and isolation, I would like to see an EU that respects the wishes of its citizens and not one that seeks to 'burst bubbles' and endanger a nation's sovereignty.
You are defending a Union whose attitude towards Irish people is this and you're lecturing me on using logic? Wake up my Euro-nationalist buddy.
You are either blinkered, bonkers or being disingenuous.
Hm, I was looking trough some figures lately and what do you know: Ireland is actually the country which has benefited the most from EU membership, surpassing even Spain by far. I mean, from structural funds to what the market integration meant for you people, one should think the EU would have a better image in your pubs and such.
As for the manner the Lisbon Treaty is going to actually be ratified, I am completely against it. Not submitting it to a democratic decision as well as the whole process of hush-hush many leaders are using - all this is just adding up to the allready strong anti-EU trend. They are doing a lot of damage behaving like this. Maybe they're afraid people wil lvote again for political reasons or out of ignorance (like the oposition in France pushed the no vote with the Constitution and used the referendum as a backlash on the government for various shortcomings in their policies).
But should you be against it just beacause of the way it will be implemented? Do read the content. Carefully. If greatly increases democratic control and public involvement in the decision-making process. Now, I don't like such choices but it seems to me that ultimately, oposing the Lisbon Treaty just because how some politicians are implementing it is almost an ad homined argument. Like the French 'no' vote.
Vote for the text. Vote for the facts and the results, not for the image of people who would (and did in many cases) go anti-EU in a split second if this would garner more votes for them.
Especially for you Irishmen, the combined weight of the referendum and your history within the EU all come together in such a way that simply voting 'no' "because we can" "because our national pride" "because we want to tax the politicians for their other flaws" - all this would simply be wrong.
After all, the Swedes did that when they kept their national pride and coin and if you read any decent survey of the effects that had on their economy, you might come to the conclusion that some times you can simply forego some principles for utility.
Read that damn text. The fact of the matter that setting aside all the sovereignity and nationalistic bullcrap the EU badly needs some reform and institutional streamlining, not to mention most of the QMV changes or Parliamentary scrutiny procedures.
I mean even the ID EP group finds it hard to point out severe fault within it if you read their analysis:
http://www.eudemocrats.org/231/
Brilliant post. I am with you 100% on this. Just wish I had a vote.
In a united Ireland, you would have
WELL DONE UNITED IRELANDER ITS A NO NO NO NO AND NO FOR ME KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND ONCE AGAIN TELL THOSE bureaucraS GET LOST,PLEASE LEAVE US IN PEACE LIKE WE HAVE FINALLY FOUND IN OUR BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY.DICK ROCHE SHOULD JOIN THE the French Foreign Legion.MAYBE THIS WILL GET SOME SENCE INTO HIM IS HE WORRIED ABOUT LOOSING ANOTHER PAYMENT VOTE NO MY FELLOW IRELANDARDS.
i really wish i could vote.
but i live in the united states.
people of Ireland please vote no.
voting for the treaty is a vote that will take so many of your rights away.
before you know it they'll be putting rfid chips in your hands.
axis of evil? what an argument. So we're Alqaida's buddies? lmao
ender, I agree completely with what you sayin', nothin' to add.
only: if economy doesn't go so well after years and years of growth, that wouldn't be so bad, and certainly not the EU's fault. Some countries will probably have to "degrowth" their economy to make space for both environement (and sustainability) and to allow the exploited countries to develop a little...neoliberalism? where is it goin'??? vote yes!
Commenting by HaloScan
