Yes - very encouraging but a long way to go yet...
The question of a united Ireland: would find this almost impossible to accept - 10% (-1) is interesting... when this figure reaches 1 or 2% I'll start to get excited...
But if things continue as they are now - with the south being allowed to invest more in the north, I think that figure could decrease even more so...
I knew I would give UI something to do last night. 
A, so called, "united" Ireland this century eh?
So 2016 is on hold, is it?
Be interesting to see the results of this survey in a couple of years time - with a couple of years of self governance in Northern Ireland behind us, a much more stable and prosperous Northern Ireland developing, and much more "good will" between the two main communities here. In short, after we have witnessed a Northern Ireland that is working.
Although I don't disagree that there is a slight shift in preferences towards a UI, you're misinterpreting some of the figures here.
On the 'view on future of NI' figures, the reason a preference for a United Ireland looks comparatively large is because 'should remain part of the UK' is split in three. If you were to ask 'should unify with the RoI with its own elected assembly' and 'without...' the 23% would split too. This question isn't all that good for a UI headcount.
As it is, 63% prefer remaining in the UK in some fashion, 23% a UI and 6% independence. In other words, for every person who favours a UI, three people prefer remaining in the UK.
Also, young people do tend to have different preferences than older people. But it's wrong to infer that they'll still have the same preferences when they're older. Young people always tend to be more comfortable with change and old people far less people. And remember: the demographics are actually against you here. The population is getting older.
And a final nit-pick: 'no religion' means 'no expressed religion,' not 'atheist'!
Sorry for the long comment!
"In short, after we have witnessed a Northern Ireland that is working."
That is possible. On t'other hand, after a few years of further infrastructural, economic and social cooperation with the rest of Ireland, it may go the other way.
Reg,
I would accept that.
A truly "united" Ireland, that doesn't threaten who I am and what I am, and which provides my children with a better opportunity to progress in life than remaining in the UK does, is no threat to me or mine.
I am all for hearing the case for an agreed, new, Ireland, which provides a better opportunity for my children.
Unfortuinately, too many nationalist commentators see a, so called, "united" Ireland as a victory over unionists.
There cannot be a truly united Ireland without a sizeable chunk of unionists accepting it as the best way forward.
That requires persuasion - not demonisation.
As things stand, I firmly believe that my family is better served by Northern Ireland remaining part of the United Kingdom - that is the view of the majority of people in Northern Ireland.
The challenge to nationalism is to convince me otherwise - rather than keep telling me that my kind are the cause of the problem, tell me how things will be better for me in a "united" Ireland.
Don't underestimate the damage done to the nationalist cause by those who demonised the very people they claimed they wished to be united with.
And - don't underestimate the damage to "unity" caused by the republican "armed struggle".
UI,
presumably you believe that it would benefit NI to join the ROI, but what's in it for us in the south. I don't want Sinn Fein to be in government here, but equally i don't want the unionists in government here. look at the mess they made of NI. do you really want the republic to end up like NI with all its divisions. i do feel sorry for the irish people who are born up there but its too much to expect us to have to lose our country through unification. to be honest we're well rid!
AFJ,
Yeah you gave me a lot of reading to do alright. 
As for '2016', I called that foolishness the minute that goal was mentioned. As I've said before I reckon in a few decades we can see Irish unity if the conditions are right. I think right now the united Ireland argument in the North is being presented quite poorly and in too much of a tribal manner.
Ciarán,
Good points made. I take your point on the young generation. Do you think though one of the reasons for the strong support for unity from the younger generation could be attributed to the brain drain on the unionist community? I've heard it said that many young unionists are going to England and Scotland and not returning. In such an environment it could spur the young into considering an alternative.
john,
I don't agree that unionists alone made a mess of NI. I think we have to accept that the fear of terrorism contributed also in creating a society that still today is gripped by fear and suspicion of the "other side".
What's in it for the south? I think there's a lot to be gained from unity for the people of the south, particularly in the area of economics. As economist David McWilliams has said:
"The solution to Ireland's economic dilemmas - like congestion, queues, rip-offs and not being able to find a good plumber - lies just up the road.
"Northern Ireland is probably the greatest untapped economic resource on the island."
I believe unionists can contribute significantly to a new Ireland. It's just a matter of making sure you don't trample over their beliefs or identity but rather to instead acknowledge that what it means to be Irish has evolved and can now welcome a diverse group of people, including unionists.
That's the real challenge and as I said above I think nationalists in the North are probably failing it at this point.
"its too much to expect us to have to lose our country through unification. to be honest we're well rid!"
On the contrary, John, you'd be regaining the rest of your country!
No matter how much of a mess was made of NI by both sides (or by its very existence), the "it has nothing to do with us" brigade down south must also share culpability.
UI,
a couple of things. How can a country descending in civil war not be blamed on the government of that country. Even if everyone is equally to blame than the majority community must shoulder the majority of the responsibility. Also, the majority population in NI aren’t Irish. I know you have a problem with this, but its simply a fact. Or at least they are only Irish because they were born on Ireland, just you or I are European ‘cos we were born in Europe. They’re not ‘spiritually’ Irish for want of a better word. In fact, I think a substantial number of them hate Irish people in a racist way. As for untapped economic resource!!!! Is that why the British government say it has no economic interest in the place (though obviously it subsidises it enormously). The place is an embarrassment. Frankly I prefer when they refer to it as Ulster rather than Northern Ireland. At least some people mightn’t realise that Ulster has anything to do with Ireland. We should be thankful to the English for keeping/paying/tolerating the place.
john,
I disagree with you on so many things here. I'll try and deal with each of your points but you and me seem to have a totally differnet view of things...
"How can a country descending in civil war not be blamed on the government of that country. Even if everyone is equally to blame than the majority community must shoulder the majority of the responsibility."
Those who took lives must shoulder the responsibility. Even if it was "civil war" then blame cannot be apportioned to one side only. Do you think the Irish Civil War should be blamed on the government of the Free State alone?
"Also, the majority population in NI aren’t Irish. I know you have a problem with this, but its simply a fact."
That's not a fact, John!
"They’re not ‘spiritually’ Irish for want of a better word."
You're getting into very dodgy territory there, John. I don't look at nationality in "spiritual" terms.
"In fact, I think a substantial number of them hate Irish people in a racist way."
I think such people are an extreme minority.
"As for untapped economic resource!!!! Is that why the British government say it has no economic interest in the place (though obviously it subsidises it enormously). The place is an embarrassment."
The British government has had to prop it up as it was economically damaging but it can be a source of real benefit to people of the island of Ireland.
"Frankly I prefer when they refer to it as Ulster rather than Northern Ireland."
Why? That's totally inaccurate!
"At least some people mightn’t realise that Ulster has anything to do with Ireland. We should be thankful to the English for keeping/paying/tolerating the place."
I think it's very sad you hold such a view. Ulster has plenty to do with Ireland. Irish history and culture is not the same when you remove Ulster from the equation. It's not right at all. Frankly, we're not a country at all if you do that.
"They’re not ‘spiritually’ Irish for want of a better word"
John,
What exactly does "spiritually Irish" mean?
In fact, what does being "Irish" mean to you?
"I think a substantial number of them hate Irish people in a racist way"
I don't believe that to be true - a small minority do. Unfortunately, some unionists/loyalists conceded their sense "Irishness" because of militant republicanism - ie. they believe "Irishness " now equals militant republicanism. That's a damning shame.
I'm (Northern) Irish - and a British Citizen.
I'm very content with that.
Some of your comments boarder on racist, as it happens.
"Irishness" is not one dimensional IMO.
i don't mean spiritually in a supernatural way. i mean that in some indefinable way irishness is part of your identity and not simply because you have been born in ireland. From what i can gather some 'loyalists' claim to have no irishness in them at all. how can they be irish if they don't feel/want to be irish. i guess Carson would have been Irish as he would have described himself as such, but Lord Laird isn't as i've heard him say during interviews. on the other hand Erskine Childers was most certainly irish despite not being born here.
Also, when did unionists become a race? i don't believe i was being racist in anyway. In fact if i lived in NI i'd vote for a unionist party. you might call me a unionist, but actually i'm really a disunionist.
"63% prefer remaining in the UK", that is encouraging. Sadly i think a united ireland is now inevitable. hopefully not in my life time though!
I actually think John has it spot on. He seems to have a greater undertstanding of how unionists actually FEEL than I have every seen UI display.
Interesting that AFJ and UI agree(ish) whereas John only gets approval for his dubious opinions from Jamie!!
This is like a tamer version of politics.ie, which many of the FGers assert they don't want to a united Ireland, due to economic concerns. Of course, most of them are selfish, West Briths, and/or trolls...
The comment that gets me here is "And - don't underestimate the damage to "unity" caused by the republican "armed struggle"."
Those are really illogical. A chicken or the egg sort of strain, I suppose. There tends to be an obsessive focus on what the "republicans" did, but hardly a mention of what preceeded them. Either during the Civil War and after the partition itself.
This figure has always been overestimated, usually by those that worship the Sunday Indo or the Daily Mail.
This "armed struggle" by Republicans is much different than that of the Loyalists. It always has been, yet the focus is oddly on what Republicans do - though hard facts will show that Loyalist terror continues to this day and always has been more violent, more civilian targeted, etc.
Say what you will, but unless you were raised in those parts of Belfast or Derry - you have no idea what it was like. The police wouldn't protect these neighbourhoods, who would? In fact, that's what makes the initial arrival of British soldiers such a sickening event. The populace actually was initially pleased, thinking they'd do something - it only got worse from there. But not "because" of the republicans.
So we can say and lay this "fair blame" on the republican struggle, but it really didn't start there and it's vastly misappropriated.
I defy any unionist who has spent time living abroad to deny his "Irishness" you are reminded on a daily basis that you are, in fact, Irish. I was a soft unionist until I spent time in the British Army, a real eye opener. You can keep Britain--I'll take Ireland anytime.
Greenprod
I have came across many Unionists living in Australia. They were irish with no hint of the inherent bigotry usually associated. They would refer to themselves as being from N. Ireland or Ireland, same with Catholics from the north one of whom insisted on wearing a norn Iron top at fitba training.
Travel broadens the mind, perhaps the British and Irish governments should pay for year long trips to the US, Canada etc to show that hating shouldn't be a hobby.
Fiona,
Whilst your post is absolutely MOPE tastic, it misses the substance of my point entirely.
Militant republicans tried to "unify" the people they claimed they wished to be "united" with - erm, by trying to destroy them.
Their campaign was much more about forcing "unity", than it was about defending anybody.
Audaces Fortuna Juvat,
Mope? Wow, I was just trying to sweep up as much trash with as broad of strokes as possible. I guess I can be insulting too and make claim that your post lacked in substance, so there really wasn't much to miss - which wouldn't be that far off.
You speak as if you were there or could speak for all militant republicans. Which you obviously don't and obviously can't.
You have absolutely no knowledge, apparently, on what was going on in the Catholic neighbourhoods in the North. You definately didn't live through it.
If you think their campaign was to unify a people that did not wish to be unified by destroying them, then you are either:
a) not Northern
b) of loyalist persuasion, in which case all is lost on you anyway.
c) an imbecile.
d) two or more of the above.
All this coming from someone whose name would be equiv to the SAS's motto of Who Dares Wins - so I guess I'm not at all surprised.
And I thought the bastard was just a Juventus fan! Instead he is someone who glories in killings whilst at the same time complains about killings. Mixed up or what?
"Interesting that AFJ and UI agree(ish) whereas John only gets approval for his dubious opinions from Jamie!!"
All I'm saying is that John's views on what it is to be 'Irish' seem to reflect my own.
Of course I'm "Irish" in a matter-of-fact way because I was born on/in Ireland. But does THAT alone make me "Irish".
Well that depends on what it means to be "Irish" in this day and age.
To me, to be Irish has been dominated for too long by one political/ethnic group. Leprachauns, Gaelic Games, the Irish Language, the 1916 Risings, the Catholic Church and probably far more that I can't be assed thinking about seem to define "Irishness" for the vast majority of Irish nationalists and republicans.
As a result, I don't FEEL Irish despite the fact that I was born on/in Ireland.
That is the thing that nationalists will have to rectify if Ireland is ever to be truly "united".
A greater undertstanding of Ulster's British population and their history is important.
I just think that such views were expressed better by John, than UI can grasp.
I should also add that the task is nigh on impossible, because to unite Ireland would mean to relinquish my position in the United Kingdom.
Nationalists don't seem willing to admit the impossibility of the task; but if they REALLY want a united Ireland, they should try. So far, they haven't even attempted to win the hearts and minds of people like me.
UI's ridiculous focus on the Easter Rising amongst other things just re-enforces my separation from HIS state.
Tony,
What killings have I glorified in?
Fiona,
I was born in 1962 - I grew up in Belfast during the worst of the troubles. Belfast born and bred.
Please explain to me what exactly the "armed struggle" was all about, if not to force Irish "unity"?
Your comments about "loyalist persuasion" are very revealing.
And, what are you on about talking about the SAS motto??
AFJ,
In 1962 did you live on a unionist estate? Belfast born and bred means nothing, you'd still easily fit into category d, which would include b and c.
"I'm (Northern) Irish - and a British Citizen."
None of my neighbours EVER proudly considered themselves British cistisens, that statement alone makes your views suspect as to really where you loyalties are. I suspect that you'd trade in your Irish identity for West Brit, if they'd allow that on official papers.
Tell me, were you one of the proud British citisens that were spitting on the little girls outside of Holy Cross?
Your comments are also revealing, and quite sad, but an indicator of the real problem in Northern Ireland. Surprised you don't refer to it as Ulster.
Audaces Fortuna Juvat essentially means the same thing as the SAS motto. In fact, to the AFJ, the SAS are probably heroes. Nice choice, your mum is probably proud.
Fiona,
"In 1962 did you live on a unionist estate?"
No.
"None of my neighbours EVER proudly considered themselves British"
Maybe because they didn't consider themselves British? Just a hunch.
"I suspect that you'd trade in your Irish identity for West Brit, if they'd allow that on official papers"
No - quite happy to be (Northern) Irish & British. Very comfortable with that.
"Tell me, were you one of the proud British citisens that were spitting on the little girls outside of Holy Cross?"
No, I wasn't.
Like any right minded person, I was disgusted by their actions.
"Your comments are also revealing, and quite sad, but an indicator of the real problem in Northern Ireland"
And what, pray tell, is the "real problem" in Northern Ireland?
"Surprised you don't refer to it as Ulster"
I refer to Northern Ireland when I'm talking about Northern Ireland.
I refer to Ulster when I'm talking about Ulster.
What's surprising about that?
"Audaces Fortuna Juvat essentially means the same thing as the SAS motto"
It is the motto of my local football team.
"In fact, to the AFJ, the SAS are probably heroes"
Indeed - some of them, anyway.
"your mum is probably proud"
My dear mum died prematurely in 1990. I miss her terribly.
I am, however, happily married to a beautiful women - called Fiona.
She is as proud of me, as I am of her.
Jamie
"UI's ridiculous focus on the Easter Rising amongst other things just re-enforces my separation from HIS state."
Why is it ridiculous for me to focus on the event which revived the quest for Irish freedom? Is it ridiculous for Americans to focus on the 4th of July too?
And seeing as northern nationalists also focus on the 1916 Rising, does that mean you feel a separation from within your own state?
"Leprachauns, Gaelic Games, the Irish Language, the 1916 Risings, the Catholic Church and probably far more that I can't be assed thinking about seem to define "Irishness" for the vast majority of Irish nationalists and republicans."
LOL!!
What are you smoking?
Reg,
John didn't answer, so I'll ask you.
How do you define "Irishness", and what does it mean to you to be Irish?
Jamie has at least been honest to tell it how he sees it - he is not alone in that perception.
Oh, and Fiona...
If ANYONE spat in the face of my eight year old daughter, there'd be hell to pay.
AFJ:
I agree completely, those who decide to pick on/harm children are the lowest of the low.
Anyway, I'm just interested to know if there are other results for this poll if it was carried out in other years [eg. 2002]? It'd be interesting to see if this trend has been continuing - though we need at least three survey results to find that out...
If this single trend [2004-2006] continued - though unlikely - support for a united Ireland would rise by ~8% every two years, while support for the UK would fall by ~5% every two years. By 2012, 54% would support a UI, while support for the UK would be 39%. I know this is highly unlikely, but interesting nonetheless.
Wait, never mind, I've found it.
It'd be hard to predict what way this would go but:
Support for a UI:
'98: 22%
'99: 21%
'00: 17%
'01: 28%
'02: 22%
'03: 24%
'04: 22%
'05: 23%
'06: 30%
Support for the UK:
'98: 57%
'99: 56%
'00: 60%
'01: 50%
'02: 55%
'03: 55%
'04: 59%
'05: 58%
'06: 54%
Turns out, it's very random. But UI support has went up, generally, over the years; and UK support has fallen slightly.
John,
Whatever way you look at the figures, they show there isn't going to be a, so called, "united" Ireland anytime soon.
Unionists should now be focusing on making Northern Ireland work - for all it's people.
AFJ
"Whatever way you look at the figures, they show there isn't going to be a, so called, "united" Ireland anytime soon."
The 18-24 age bracket suggests otherwise.
I suspect young people don't want a future revolving around Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness and the same tired old tribal politics. Who can blame them?
UI,
I know you like to clutch at such straws, but it takes 50%+1 of everbody to change the status quo - miles short, whatever way you want to look at it.
Bad reading for nationalists, requiring some positive spin to keep morale up.
I've been listening to this baloney all my life - "it's (a, so called, UI) just around the corner".
Err - no, it's not.
A peaceful, stable and prosperous Northern Ireland going forward, within the union, is what I confidently see ahead.
"How do you define "Irishness", and what does it mean to you to be Irish?"
Jaysus AFJ, that's not an easy question. I haven't been dodging it; have been quite busy!
An intangible sense of identity and belonging based on a shared history, geography, "culture" (in the widest sense), shared experiences.
Possibly. Its not easy to define.
Fuck Christianity. The true Ireland precedes and transcends both. Britain needs out for all the obvious political and cultural reasons. Were I in command of my nations' armies,(US) I'd bomb London before Tehran.
Guys,
Get it into perspective here. This is a very small poll taking from where? Outside Castle Court on a Saturday afternoon?
As A Loyalist and Unionist, I would never live in a United Ireland. My relations fought and died for this country/nation. The country that is now the UK I mean. My forefathers fought in the Boer War, The First & Second World Wars and the 'skirmishes in between and since. Every village in NI lost young men in World War One - and I mean every village. In my own village, we had 150 of a population and we lost 12 men alone. They're name s live on in our memories. We do recognise that a sacrafice was made by those young men and I do also realise that the same sacrifice was made across Ireland but not to the same extent as in the North.
I have lost relatives to IRA terrorists, I have carried coffins of friends killed by both the IRA and UVF. I have suffered at the hands of the IRA personally, so please think about what you are typing here before you make any judgements on The Unionist People. Maybe some of the opinions expressed by people in this feedback of yours can only see NI through their green tinted glasses. To be perfectly honest, when I cross the 'Border' I really do feel as if I'm in a Foreign Country. It is noit the wish of the poeple of NI to join a foreign state. If it came to the crunch and to some sort of referendum - the people of NI will think twice before they say United Ireland, please.
Oh yes, and one more thing I am Roman Catholic.......
NL/Unionist,
Welcome to the site. I had a grandfather, a Dubliner, who served in the British Army during WW2 along with thousands of other southern Irishmen. Thousands of Irish people across the island also fought in WW1.
So are we really that different?
As for the relatives you lost to the IRA, the overwhelming majority of Irish people utterly oppose the way PIRA abused the republican ideals which originated in the late 18th century. They do not represent me in any shape or form.
I really do think we are different. If people were a bit more open eyed and realise that if you live in NI you don't have to conform to Catholism/Irishness or Protestant/Britishness/Loyalism. In NI, both 'traditions' are welcoming each other more and more. I am actually looking forward to 12th July celebrations, not because they are triumphant, etc, but because they are the seeds of what could be as big a day in Ireland as St Pats Day. I for one will be going to see the bands, cheering them along and greeting my friends afterwards. And I do realise that the Orange Order has an antiquated attitude towards RC's as an Organisation. But as individual orangemen, most of them are ordinary men in the street type of people who are kind and respectful to my religion. My friends all expect me to be there and they also will know that I will be going to mass later that saturday night. Its the way it should be here.
But could the Irish in Dublin live with that? I say no. They couldn't even let a traditional loyalist parade into Dublin centre without causing havoc. I say to the United Irish reading this, "Get your house in order in Ireland first, show tolerance to the protestant communities in NI, which in fact are totally different to those protestants in Southern Ireland. Let the Loyalists/Unionists see that you're multi-cultural and welcoming of them, then we can talk."
NL/Unionist,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe certain counties in the Republic, such as in Donegal, have Orange Order parades that are trouble-free? Isn't that a sign of tolerance?
The loyalist parade you speak of did have trouble but it was Garda officers who were bravely standing up to the troublemakers.
I believe the south is tolerant of all traditions. We have people from all backgrounds living in Dublin these days, 10% of Dublin's population is Polish for example, so do you really think we are interested in bearing hostility towards people north of the border, when we would have more in common with them than say our large immigrant population?
Yes the guards did stand up to them bravely and I commend them for that BUT that said, the people still caused trouble. You know as much as I do that they would tolerate a Polish ritual whereas a loyalist/unionist one will be suppressed. I know the vast majority of people living in Dublin of irish descent have no problem with the parades but, under their breath, they will have personal objections. How would they re-act to a Union Flag being flown during the parade in O'Connell St? Some protestants really are saddened by the nationalists using the Irish Tri-Colour as a symbol of hatred towards them and others really hate the sight of it because to them it means death, destruction, hatred and terrorism. Indeed my nephew who is also Catholic asked me was the Irish Tri-colour the flag for war!
Yeah, in Rosnowlagh in Donegal they parade the saturday before the 12th. But that small town is mainly Protestant and they are welcome there. I would love to see the Orangemen going into Nationalist areas to gain support to have an Orange Day. This could be seen as a celebration of the Orange part of the Irish Flag as well as a Loyalist 'boozing session'. Take some time and come north on July 12 this year. Newcastle in Co. Down is my local area and are hosting this years parade in Co. Down. Open your eyes and look past the Ulster Flags, Union Flags, and the often displayed, although not at all liked, paramilitary flags, see what sort of people are in the Orange Order and the Bands. Some bands are absolutely fantastic. colourful uniforms, talented fifers and drummers are aplenty. I remember my father telling me that one 12th day long ago, the local lodge had engaged their local accordion band to lead them on 'the twelfth'. On the morning of the parade they met at the hall but had only 2 drummers. My father who was a talented Pipe Drummer, was asked to help out, which he did. Shhhh, don't tell everyone but they had a fenian on the twelfth that day... lol.
Well the ones who caused trouble I believe are referred to as 'spides' in your neck of the woods and scangers in my neck of the woods. Those types of people are scumbags and are detested by the majority of people down here.
I do believe the Union flag could be flown in O'Connell Street as long as it wasn't viewed as rubbing it in people's faces. As you point out there's a feeling that this is how the tri-colour is used by certain people in NI.
I do think we will see Orange parades being accepted by nationalists as long as it's not viewed as a triumphalist showing which is how it's been viewed in days gone by. I would be willing to view an Orange Day if this is the case and would even be willing to see it here in Dublin for St Patrick's Day if it could be arranged.
I think your missing the point here slightly. Why St. Patricks Day? These guys here celebrate the Orangemans Day which is 12th July. Some loyalist areas of NI now celebrate Paddys Day! They fly the ST. Patricks Flag, which is, not too many realise, a part of the Union Flag. I respect all flags, Union Flag, Tri-Colour, Saltire, etc. I do not respect para-military flags. Its those people who use their flag to wind others up, flying flags on telegraph poles where they are not welcome, republican thugs flying them in the faces of Loyalists at a parade. They are disrespecting their own flag and their own ideals by doing this. They seem to be uneducated, uncultured and ill mannered thugs.
People need to see the Irish people accepting the traditions of the Northern Loyalists before they can even think that a United Ireland.
A UI is a republican dream and probably more and more unlikely to happen in the lifetime of anyone breathing today. There are major fundamental differences in our ideals, thoughts, loyalties and aims. There are more and more people from mainland UK moving here to get away form the rat-race in Engalnd. They are happy to be living in a satellite part of the UK and pay UK taxes and support government policies from here. I suppose it is a modern version of the English Middle class moving to India, Burma, etc to earn decent money and get their children educated in better schools. We can boast the best education system in UK up here. If the Education Secretary Catrinna Ruane gets her hands on it, we can look forward to years of producing under achieving children.
I said St Patrick's Day because it was the day that sees the majority of Irish people in Dublin come out and it's a parade that is supposed to be diverse.
A UI is a republican dream alright but I would say it has practical benefits. I feel there would be economic and social improvements through the absence of a border.
I understand and respect why you might not want what I do, but I hope you would likewise respect and understand my view, as someone who feels his identity is based on a four province island of Ireland.
hi there reading thru all the comments i have realised that ireland north and south have already united...think 5years ago would we have even talked about this?NO, i say yes you say no. thats it, im a catholic from tyrone liveing in limerick, unlike most people from the north i have a mixed family...i mean my main family 'mum' 'dad' etc were all catholic, but my fathers side were proestant my grandfather fought in ww2 and was proud to fight for britian.... he changed to catholic and married my granny . . this was an only opition at the time....he died many years later in lourds france a proud catolic......it has me thinking....i could have been a protestant loyalist so easyaly....but im noy...my father was interned in the 70's and was beaten and mistreated all his life for being a catholic, by the british army and ruc etc... the truth is people down south dont see 'us' as irish...people in england scotland and wales dont see us as british...how do we win? i see 'us' as irish. we were born in ireland. we are irish, we belongto a united ireland and we shud respect our n.irish country men british or otherwise, the next step is unity and it can only happen wen my protestant brothers except me for me and i except them for them.
Brian,
I along with all my protestant friends accept all people for who they are - otherwise they wouldn't be my friends. Granted, The RUC did play the internment card far to often, and in your case, probably wrongly. The army, on the other hand, acted on orders from the RUC and that in itself is where the problems arise. The RUC were recruited from middle class back-grounds in Protestant areas and often, as I'm sure you know, thought they were above the law.
But please try to look at this country, maybe not as British/Irish, but as 'Ulsterish'!! I'm not saying Ulster in the same terms as Rev. Ian but we have a cultural identity which is quite unique.
In the 1600's the Hamiltons and Montgomeries settled in Co. Down from Scotland, shortly after, an exodus of people also came from Scotland and promptly changed the face of Ireland for ever. The unique characteristics of the Ulster-Scots is still to be seen to this day. This, coupled with the typical friendliness of the Irish people has mixed well and produced a super blend of people. As a foot-note, I have to say, the nicest girls in the world are the pale skinned, raven haired Irish girls - beautiful Celtic looks. I know, I married one!!
My personal views on Irish Unity are documented above, but as a business man, I would actually like to see NI as a fully independant state, separate from any 'mothering'. We would need to create a fully protected Border system firstly to keep out immigrants and strike a deal with our cousins in ROI to do something similar. But the main reason for my thinking is that we could encourage outward investment never seen in any European Country before. We could create a free tax zone, this would encourage people to invest their monies into our Banks without the fear of heavy tax penalties. The standard of living here would be extraordinary and people will soon forget about Irish Unity or loyalities to Queen and Country when they have a bak account choking at the gills!
This would never happen as the politicans in NI are more akin to points scoring at Stormont and deliberate flag waving to appease their electorate.
Maybe it could happen, my friend, we can always dream..
well honestly i think there are to many cons to that idea, firstly we as a people N.irish would never except this, there has been to many deaths to many battles to many broken families to just simply give up, i understand the protestant view on ulster, as if things were the other way around id want diff state from a majority that i was afraid off, but the fact is Ireland is a country that has been divided up and was/is at war, the way that it was divided was criminal and simply wouldn't happen today, did you know that the 6counties were picked because they were 'in favour' of the 'cause' leaving the further 3 out, did u also know that N.irelands map was going to be rewritten in the 50's as the western counties Derry Tyrone fermanagh were all seen to be not in the interest of the state..... the list of sheer hatred goes on, as well u know.
i say to you as an ulster man, imbrace me as your brother not an enemy, cause we are the same, we grew up surrounded in hatred that was not of our own making, but we can make a difference, we can start a fresh and change this for the better of all the people....
if Ireland was united tomorrow....what would you do/think/feel
Brian
The only enemy I have is the tax man! If you read my earlier posts you should see that. Your not quite suggesting that your my enemy but you are insinuating it. Why? Becuase I am a loyalist and Unionist. You will also see from my earlier post that I am Roman Catholic as well.
You talk of 6 counties being picked because they supported the cause. This is totally untrue. The 4 protestant counties, Down, Derry, Armagh and Antrim were included in the treaty and Fermanagh and Tyrone - with Catholic majorities, were included to give it some semblance of viability.
Your comments regarding a re-drawing of the border in the '50s is also untrue. This is a myth among "Irish Dreamers". The IRA's border campaign in the 50's was totally unsuccessful and so much so that in fact they had no support north of the border. They had to control their campaign from the southern side. I think that if you have a look the The Commons sitting, around the end of 1972, you will find another mention of the remapping of the border. But we live in a democratic country. Those people left at the southern side of the border if it were to be re-drawn would be saying its a dictatorship we live in and not a democracy. What i am saying is that there was no mention of it in any parliament sitting in UK. After the Sunningdale Agreement breakdown in 1974, there was a suggestion of moving the border northeast wards, but not to the extent that you're suggesting. They were going to move it around half a mile, goodness knows why. The people in the area would have been given Irish Citizenship or Independance.
So, my FRIEND, I am not your enemy. I am just slightly different from the norm. Being a Roman Catholic who is a loyalist and a unionist is rare but not extinct.
Please check what you type before doing so, as I know more about Northern Irish history than you think!
well then you can clearly see that leaveing 3 counties out of ulster/northern ireland ment that the protestants were in total comand, i hate wen big ian and co say ulster says no, wen in fact everywere you want will say no as you can pick who votes and who you want to vote.....i mean derry was the worst case...as im sure ur well aware off....to say to me that tyrone and fermanagh were included in ulster to give it more semblance of viability proves my point...ireland....oh ireland what tormented children you have spawned....as you say you a R,C what difference does that make, this isnt about religion it was a mistake for the oira to kill irish protestants in the 60s as this brought about a tribel war instead. . . . i say to you sir, what would you do if ireland if it was indeed united tomoro?
NI joining the Republic is not the answer. We need a new Ireland, new constitution, and new sense of national identity which all can buy into. And that also means re-evaluating our relationship with Britian. Perhaps even rejoining the commonwealth. I don't ever see it happening in my lifetime!
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