There are no worthy values of Unionism in 2007. Unionism has always been about saving face and seeking to justify the unjust division of Ireland against the democratic wishes of the vast majority of her peoples.
i've wondered myself what unionism really is. i'm sure there are proper British nationalists within the Unionist family, but there also seem to be alot of Ulster nationalists, and there also seems to be a group for whom protestantism is more important than anything else. then add in a few supremacists who simply look on Irish people as being inferior and you have very complicated group. I actually think that the IRA has been the main reason unionism has managed to stay, well, united!
I am a unionist primarily for one very basic reason.
I firmly believe that my well being, and that of my family, is better served by Northern Ireland remaining part of the United Kingdom, than it is by "uniting" with the Republic Of Ireland.
Should that belief ever change, I will cease be a unionist.
AFJ, which aspects of your well-being or the well-being of your family are ‘better served by Northern Ireland remaining part of the United Kingdom, than…by "uniting" with the Republic Of Ireland’?
Better healthcare? Better economy? Better education? Less crime in UK than Ireland? Civil liberties? Can’t be any of those things.
OK, there’s obviously an emotional band with the union, but let’s try to be objective here; what makes the UK better for you and your family than RoI?
Michael,
In all of the areas that you mention, I am content within the United Kingdom - of course, always room for improvement, but that's the same everywhere.
Is there some big secret that I'm missing out on?
Can you tell me how exactly myself and my family would be better off in a "united" Ireland?
An IPSOS survey released today claims that 90% of us in Northern Ireland are happy with our lives - I would be amongst that 90%.
Nearly two thirds of people surveyed feel that things have improved over the last 5 years, and a similar number think that "things will get better still" in the future.
I think Northern Ireland is on the cusp of being very prosperous, at peace, and progressive within the union.
Given what we have come through, it bodes well for stability and harmony.
Emotionally, I feel much closer ties to the United Kingdom than I do to the Irish Republic.
I like many aspects of the Irish Republic - but it just ain't home and never will be.
I holiday regularly in the Irish Republic (looking forward to a week long visit in August) and generally feel very at ease - but I never feel at home.
AFJ,
You say "I like many aspects of the Irish Republic - but it just ain't home and never will be. "
If the island was united as one political entity please tell me why you would suggest that all of a sudden you will be uprooted and forced to move south? You will still be living in "Northern" Ireland. Same people, same landscape, same towns, same facilities, same churches, same schools. And dare I say it, the same politicians, but who would in fact be far better serving you in a united "Irish" parliament than it would in an "English" one
Irish Prod, isn't that an argument for not uniting? If everything will be exactly the same post-unity as before(as you assure AFJ), then why bother with the years of tiresome debate? It sounds like a lot of work for nothing.
I don't think any of us know what the effects of unity will be. Neither government has done any detailed research and forecasts on the critical areas (which are absolutely vast), e.g. law harmonisation, pension rights, economics, etc. Ergo, it's hard to sell something when you don't know what you are selling - especially when the purchaser will be profoundly affected (in un-specified ways).
Nor, indeed, does the Irish government have the slightest intention in undertaking such research prior to what Bertie Ahern termed "a long period for stability" occurring in NI. The timescale before the groundwork is considered at cabinet level is 20 plus years as far as the Irish government is concerned and that groundwork will take at least a decade (and none of us know what state our economy will be in by then), so all this incessant talk of Irish unity is deeply premature.
I'll just give you an example of the practical details: the British government is the biggest employer in Northern Ireland. What is going to happen to those jobs when the British state no longer employs NI workers to do work for all of the UK? What is going to happen to them when the Irish government wants to cuts costs by restructuring and rationalsing state services? What will happen to their pension plans? Don't you think those people will want to know the answers to those critical questions before voting for Irish unity? Unless you can provide those answers (and you cannot), you are guaranteed a 'no' vote.
You make some good points Dubliner, although you're more selfless than i would be. We'd have to have changes to our country too. Would our Gardai have to absorb PSNI/RUC. i have a very high regard for the Gardai, but none for the old RUC. Would we have to pay significantly more tax for all those NI civil servants, though i think this may be less of an issue as i think there is going to be significant cut backs in NI ove the next decade (and more taxation). And of course, the elephant in the room, sectarianism. Do we really want to bring religion back into civic life now that its totally secularised? i have great sympathy for Irish people in NI. People like fiona who was on here the other day. they've had a hard time up there and i think we should be looking for a way to protect them rather than trying to end up with a united territory containing unionist/loyalists who are hostile to our country and have nothing to contribute anyway.
AFJ, thanks for your answer.
Hmmm, I get the impression that many public services must be a lot better in NI than on the British mainland, seeing as if I were given the choice I’d be happy to see the Irish education system, civil liberties, crime figures, business taxes and economic prospects in the UK.
But the issue of emotional attachment is a more difficult one, and not always easy for me to follow as I’m a British citizen who’s spent less than a third of my life in the UK; I don’t feel any great emotional attachment to any particular country, but more attachment to landscapes, friends, family and some of the silly ball games we play in these islands. However, I don’t get the impression that the government of a united Ireland would want to stop you identifying yourself with Britain, or indeed keeping your British nationality.
I can certainly understand your argument that ‘if something’s working, don’t change it’. That’s perhaps quite a British, conservative argument, but it has a ring of sense to it. The trouble is, NI demographics, UK politics and British and Irish economics might very well overtake the status quo to the point that it’s difficult to see an alternative to a gradual move to a united Ireland. I also think IrishProd’s argument is a strong one; the electoral strength of NI in the British parliament is not really all that big, but would be much greater in an Irish parliament, perhaps with a similar degree of devolution as has now been reached.
Anyway, thanks again; it’s the first time I’ve heard a unionist give a really useful explanation of his feelings. And no, I don’t think you’re missing something, I just want to understand what drives modern-day unionists.
On the contrary Dub,
My point was that in a politically united island then for the average joe, like me and AFJ, we wouldn't suddenly find ourselves living in Cork or the like. We'd still be in our own areas surrounded by the same people! It's an argument FOR a united Ireland in that unionists have nothing to fear.
:o)
UI I think the context needs to be understand. Craig's call for Dominion Status was probably because of fears that otherwise NI would become part of an All-Ireland state. I think he preferred staying in the UK but if that was not possible, preferred Dominion Status. I think it reflects traditional Unionist paranoia about being a minority in a majority-Catholic state.
Hope you don’t mind if I answer this question in my own way.
What are the intrinsic values of Unionist politicians? The short answer is that they don’t have any. The fact that both the DUP and the UUP are prepared to share power with those who butchered in order to further their political objectives is sufficient evidence to prove this.
So I (and a lot of other Unionists) are completely disillusioned with the political process.
That does not affect my British identity.
What does it mean to be British?
Well for me it is to do with a shared history and literature.
My literature is the plays of Shakespeare, the poetry of Wordsworth and Burns and the novels of Dickens.
That is what I grew up reading and was taught in school. And I’m very thankful for it. I have derived immense pleasure from British literature.
I also see my history as being intertwined with that of the rest of the UK. I identify with the Magna Carta and establishment of Parliamentary democracy (something the Republic had to learn from usJ), the martyrs who died under Mary I for my faith (Protestantism) and the Covenanters who suffered for their Presbyterian beliefs under Charles II.
I also associate myself with those who fought for freedom in the World Wars while others sat on the sidelines and expressed their sorrow at the passing of Hitler.
Does that mean that everything the British did in history was right? Of course not. The British have just as much to be ashamed of as any other nation (including those who define themselves as Irish). But it does mean that I identify with those things which are noble and I aspire to emulate.
Finally – and excuse the shameless plug but I’m still building a readership – visit my site!
Thanks for your comments UI and I'm glad you're enjoying the Blog. I've posted twice recently about what unionism means to me. Perhaps this might offer an insight.
I'm aware of the history of ambiguity between unionism and Westminster, but my vision of unionism is a contemporary one.
The irony is that with the ROI becoming increasingly secular and multicultural with increased prosperity, it's actually becoming more like England than NI.
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