Weapons of Mass Discussion - TROLLS wll NOT be tolerated. Period.
Even though I am a Cold War vet, Thank you.
When and where did you serve, Mark?
Is there nothing so sacred that you won't use it as a chance to make political points? Do you really think that people on the "left" don't serve in the military? The military isn't uniformly conservative, newsflash. It leans that way, and until recently leaned Republican, but that doesn't mean that hundreds of thousands of active duty are "left" in their political affiliation, at least by the loose standards of this website. And millions of our vets, dead and alive, were liberals and Democrats. But you say that the "Left" either doesn't properly observe Memorial Day, or politicizes it. Do you realize that you are engaging exactly in the conduct you are criticizing?
Memorial Day is for Veterans, not for political hacks. Veterans who are liberals, conservatives, moderates, and even extremists. So long as they wore the country's uniform, and served with honor, I don't care if they voted for Buchanan or for Fulani or Bush or Gore. Honor ALL the vets, and don't use the holiday to take cheap shots at your political opponents. There will be 364 days in the year to do that (although you might take Christmas and Easter off for different reasons)
Sheesh.
Amen, Mark.
And it is quite clear that Mark believes we should honor EVERYONE who wears/wore the uniform:
"We as Americans need to realize, regardless of political stripe, the tremendous sacrifice made by our brave men and women, and honor both the living and the dead. As well as the families, who have given not just the hopes and dreams of individuals but of families as well. God bless them all..."
Like it or not - and I don't - our generation sees a lot of what Mark describes. Folks who refuse to speak of the military in a positive light unless it fits their political agenda.
You'll hear a lot more "Bush lied, people died" than you will "Clinton's b@#*$ were blue when he abandoned Mogadishu," where our boys were truly led to a slaughter, sacrificed and foresaken with no consequences what-so-ever.
Mark believes in using this holiday to attack the left--reread his post. You also agree. Or you wouldn't bring up what you see as Clinton's failure (in a mission started by Bush's dad, incidentally, that was left in Clinton's lap. He didn't decide to go to Somalia, and he wasn't deciding military strategy on a daily basis either. Think what you will about Black Hawk Down, but it is hardly all Clinton's fault. He deserves some of the blame, but not all).
It's really rather funny--both of you are saying "We don't want to exploit this holiday, like those evil leftists who hate the military and exploit it for political gain!" Merely by saying that on this holiday, you are exploiting the holiday for political gain. But I don't expect you to understand that, or you wouldn't be doing it...right? Unless you are far more cynical than I give you credit for.
No sweet pea...simply providing a balanced perspective to your criticism. Nothing more, nothing less. If it hits a truth nerve, then perhaps you should figure out why.
You see, Rose, surfer75 is just upset because I called a spade a spade...and he hates it when someone actually exposes him. He thinks he is the only one who has the right to "expose" fallacies.
And as to the ignorant putz Joseph, I did not serve, due to a hereditary condition. I would have loved to have served my country, even if I would have served under such a disgusting CnC as Bubba, which I would have given when I came of age. I find it amazing that you all want to make it so much about military service if people talk about patriotism, but everyone absent JFK or John Kerry or John Murtha is an idiot for going into the military and is some type of babykiller.
You are the ones who make it about party, as in...we only support military action when it is done by a democrat.
I love how when we decry the hatefulness of the Left, you people say, well sign up and serve, or, where did you serve? Tell me, Joseph, where did you serve? Hmm?
Both of my grandfathers served, one in WWII where he recieved a crippling leg injury and another in Korea where he saw horrific things as a medic. My uncles served in Vietnam. My greatuncle was one of the original green berets and served from Nam to Grenada. My cousin eddie has served as his father did in special forces from nam til today.
But, that doesn't matter, you simpering, elitist fool. Men I or you will never know died so I can criticize the lazy ignorant bastards who just think of Memorial Day as another day off or another day to spout euphemisms about wars they have no clue about, just as they died so unfortunate humans like you can spew the garbage you do.
So kindly go back to your own hole and spew your garbage...
And surfer, where did i say the lefties are exploiting it for political gain, eh? as usual, you put words in peoples mouths. Far too many people, right and left and middle, do not do enough to thank vets on this day or the other 364. Just you lefties get so touchy when anyone points it out or that you lefties seem to appreciate it far less. Guilty conscience?
And anonymous who started this comment thread, it doesn't matter if it was Cold War. You served. God bless you.
And of course, the Plunderbums are out in force talking about that one needs to have military service to effectively talk about the troops. Hmm...what about Obama? What about Madame Clinton? I don't think snipper fire counts... They talk about my hypocrisy, but they play the "where did you serve" card all the time.....And they go off on a partisan rant because I took a minor shot at the left....funny. These people are all about the projection....
I do not have to defend my lack of military service any more than someone who serves has to defend their service (absent disciplinary action such as dishonorable discharge) to anyone. But who are the ones who call our soldiers babykillers, pol pots, etc.? Hmm? I haven't seen that from John Boehner, but I have seen it from Dick Durbin.
Joe, Eric, cry and moan all you want. If it were so untrue and such a small thing, then you wouldn't be so OUTRAGED (tm) by it. Again, guilty conscience?
I have served at military funerals as well as nursing homes caring for vets. It is not military service but I do provide aid and comfort to our vets in the ways I can, unlike providing aid and comfort to enemies like Hamas (Obama's former strategist), or sharing talking points with UBL (Kerry 2004) or calling our soldiers war crimials (democrat leadership in congress).
Where did you say Lefties are exploiting Memorial day for political gain? You don't even bother to read what YOU write? You said:
To the Left, the idea of Memorial Day is when we all come together as Americans to honor those who fought in wars led by Democrats and decry those led into war by Republicans.....
***
If that isn't saying that Leftists exploit Mem Day for political reasons, than you live in a world in which words have no meaning. Are you dumb, forgetful, or deceitful?
You also went on to say that it is leftists who ignore the holiday and go out and grill and wear flip flops.
My grandfather is buried in Arlington with full military honors. It pisses me off when you try to make political points off the day set aside for his memory. It demeans the holiday, and it demeans the idea of patriotism to harness it to your sad political diatribes. And then to claim to not understand your own posts....
Sheesh.
So the Durbin's, Kerry's, & Murtha's were all praising our troops - the actual men and women serving on this President's watch - this weekend?
I must have missed a press conference where they rescinded their past remarks about what low-class, uneducated, degenerates our soldiers are...
Conversely, and regardless of whether or not you agreed with how the policies were enforced, to this day I don't know one conservative who would have even dared say those same things about our soldiers who served on Clinton's watch...even when they were made to carry out orders like this:
http://www.time.com/time/daily/s...l/photo/elian2/
or this...
http://www.getwaco.com/waco-pict...re-
gallery.html
Talk about "terrorizing women and children in the middle of the night..."
I don't know how "extreme" you are in your views, but it is common knowledge that most of the extreme left appreciates the military when it fits their narrative and/or adds to their credibility. Most of the right, understanding that first and foremost, soldiers take orders, appreciates their service no matter what.
If you're not one of those lefties, then congrats, you are a rarity.
Well, Rose, I think if you do a little more research, you'll find that no troops were involved in Elian Gonzalez or Waco. Federal police forces yes, troops, no. Posse Comitatus, from the 1870s, would forbid the use of the armed forces in domestic affairs.
I have heard Jack Murtha speak in person, and he lavished praise on the veterans, of which he is one. I can find you numerous quotes from Kerry doing the same. All you have against Kerry is one botched joke that was aimed at the president.
A number of people are concerned, as I am, that the troops today tend to come from a less diverse group, socioeconomically. This is in part a result of moving to an all volunteer force. The military officers I have spoken to do NOT want to go back to a draft--they don't want short term, disgruntled soldiers. At the same time, they acknowledge that it is problematic that in today's wars, almost no members of the upper strata have children on the front lines. Take the Bush clan. The eldest was a war hero. Yet not one of his kids served. That's typical of the moneyed elite. We used to all go. Now almost none of the upper middle to wealthy classes have military service. That's a problem for our democracy. It doesn't mean that the troops are disrespected to make that factual observation about the demographic shift in military manpower.
In truth, we don't need as many people, and if we hadn't gotten into this abbatoir stupidity in Iraq, we'd need even less. But consider this: 1945, population 140Mill, military 15 million. 2008: military 1.4 mill, population 300mil. The technologically sophisticated army requires fewer bodies.
First, Thank you Mark. Next what do you call a bunch of jack-booted thugs armed with M16's, Flash-bangs, MP5's, Sniper nests, Kevlar battle helmets, heavy-duty body armor, and Armored Personel Carriers? I don't believe a federal police force is the proper term. I do believe the ATF and the FBI has to resolve some customer service issues. Why does a federal special agent need to yank a child and uncle from a closet with a submachine gun wearing a battle helmet? why did the federal government under clinton constantly call a Church a compound? The sniper at Waco that the site was refering to was the one who mudered Randy Weavers wife, what was she doing that was so wrong? Holding her child in her arms. I just wonder where were the civil liberty lefties were then? I don't remember any protest site.
Well, we were talking about Memorial Day, Anon. And whatever weapons these guys were using, none of them get buried at Arlington, none of them were part of the military, and none of them get remembered on Memorial Day. So it is not relevant to the discussion.
However, since you brought it up--while I have operational issues with how Waco was handled, the Elian case was handled perfectly, I think. A federal court ruled, it is the job of the executive to uphold the sanctity of American law, and the family was in defiance of the law. They weren't "thugs"; they were men and women upholding the laws of the nation in a difficult case.
Well surfer, be proud of your relative buried in Arlington. Honors and praise for his sacrifice for his country.....as for everything else...your mileage may vary, and usually does....and please, impress us more with your latin...it is sooo dreamy....
My grandfather was a great guy. He fought against anti-Semitism in the officer corps and rose to be a colonel, fighting in three wars. I only wish I had known him better.
God bless him for his service...on that, I would suspect, we can agree....sounds like a really neat guy.
I had the honor of going to a parade here in Tipp City where my daughter was able to participate. What a moving day as a wreath was laid in honor of our fallen and speeches given by former and current soldiers. I was moved by a current soldier who just came back from his third tour in Iraq and said "I get nervous before I go but am glad to be able to do my job". Many children participated in a bike rally. In all I am glad to be able to work with the military as I get to do. I dont hear the concerns that surfer has, but instead hear the pride that the officers have in serving our country. God Bless America
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