I can't wait for Mpyre's take on the Republican VP choice.
McCain's pick makes me thinks they're in disarray. They may even be giving in...
just watched palin's speech. dem-lite. they're in deep trouble...thanking hillary clinton for 18 million cracks in the ceiling?
their internals must have been deeply troubling for this pick to be worth the risk/reward. i see the appeal, and she's actually a smart pick for the republican base, but 18 months ago she was mayor of a town half the size of the arena she just spoke in. and about the only thing she and Hillary have in common is that they're both female. anyone who manages to cast a vote for HRC in the primary and this woman in the general couldn't spell the word "issue" if you spotted him or her all 3 vowels...
I think this was a genius move on the part of the republicans. It's like they ordered this woman out of a catalog.
Lifetime NRA memeber - proclaimed hunter and fisherperson.
Strong right to life stance - will use the fact that she has a kid with downs to demonstrate it (which makes no sense at all. I know more pro-choice advocates with mentally retarded children than I do anti-abortion).
She is young. She is hot (sad but true that this matters).
The reps will argue that she is inexperienced but that is why she is a vice president not a presidential nominee.
She has 5 kids to make a case for strong family values (again, I think this is not proof of strong family values, it only shows lack of restraint or use of birth control).
She is a strong domestic oil drilling advocate.
I think this is is a blatant attempt to pick up HRC republicans.
"Mentally retarded"?
I have an uncle with downs syndrome, and you might be surprised at how smart he is...
Sorry about that Marjorie, no slight intended. I am admittedly not as up to speed on my PC terminology as I should be. I will make a mental note about it for next time.
we'll see if she can handle being under the brightest lights on the planet... after all, 238,000 people voted in the AK governors race in 2006. 211,000 voted in the NM cd-1 house race. not exactly tailor-made for prime time...
hee hee hee... Begala makes me laugh: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS...alin/
index.html.
"For a man who is 72 years old and has had four bouts with cancer to have chosen someone so completely unqualified to become president is shockingly irresponsible. Suddenly, McCain's age and health become central issues in the campaign, as does his judgment."
talkin bout unions, failed policies of washington and hillary clinton...wrong turf for repubs. how can you win a change election trying to reform your own party...that's been in power for eight years?
then she's also shoring up social and fiscal conservatives?
that's like a mixed message beyond compare/repair.
He needed something fresh, something different, something to balance out Obama's youth appeal, and thus McCain picked Sarah Palin. I echo JScott's review of her credentials. Honestly, the only thing Republicans shouldn't like about her is that she's so hot (she was in a freakin' beauty pageant in 1984) and her eye candy status will overshadow her intellect. But given how feisty she is, I'm *really* looking forward to the VP debates.
The VP debates are going to be a huge draw... who'd have guessed?!
I agree with Karlos' point about the mixed messaging here. I get why McCain picked Palin, but ultimately I don't think it will pay off. Her negatives seem too high.
It's also hard for me to imagine McCain treating her without any gender condescension... that's kinda his way. We shall see.
they did change the subject on corporate news media...
yet they're looking for a fight in the wrong battle field.
"A victorious army first wins, and then seeks battle.
A losing army first seeks battle, and then searches for victory."
- Sun Tzu
The thing about Palin that will be discovered soon is that she is crazy. She is way, way out on the right wing. I think this was at least as much about rallying the loonies as picking a woman. There are also corruption allegations out there and clear cases of her abusing her power as governor.
Plus 18 months ago she was the mayor of a rural town in Alaska.
If they really wanted a woman, why not Kay Bailey Hutchinson? Also super conservative, but also respected and well-known.
There are people, including here, that say this is a genius pick, but there are massive negatives with Palin. It's a hilarious pick.
Just because she is far right wing doesn't make her a loony. It makes her far right wing. The real loony is Wooten who made death threats on her family.
Hutchison is pro-choice, she would have never been McCain's pick.
I am not going to defend Palin to the death, but she is definitely not an outlandish choice. Risky, for sure, but any time you pick a non-male, it's going to be risky.
Maggie, to reference your "It's also hard for me to imagine McCain treating her without any gender condescension... that's kinda his way. We shall see." He's already done it. When he finished introducing her today and was stepping away from the podium as she was approaching, he said, "It's okay. Take your time." Talk about talking down to her.
(I can't take credit for that story though. Maureen Carney was home on her lunch break and watched the rally. Then emailed me!)
I have to admit I hadn't paid attention to the news all day today, and when I was checking my email just now, I had a message from the Oil and Gas Compact Commission. It told me all I really needed to know:
http://environmentalnewsfornewme...lin-
ticket.html
As for the fact that she's a woman...I have all sorts of thoughts on that: Happy that a woman was chosen, concerned that it was done to woo former Hillary supporters, etc. But my main thought is: Gale Norton is a woman and she oversaw terrible environmental damage in this country.
Palin really seems like a hail mary pass by McCain to me. I think the biggest difficulty for Biden in their VP debate is going to be to not crush her so badly that he looks like he's a mean bully beating up a naive but pretty girl.
Also, this made me laugh:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2gue0d0.jpg
Oh, I've got it! The R's are sure this a good pick since Palin went to school in Idaho...surely she can spell potato.
Okay, okay.....so Hillary had/has McCain by the balls....and he had to act out somehow, and so he picks a "hot" and smart woman as VP ....but come on ......lets give the Hillary following (women) some credit that they know this is just a ruse.....
at least I am keeping my fingers crossed that they know this.
Question o' the day.
Is the day of the "two white guys with red and blue ties" ticket over?
maybe so... 
Genius pick for soooo many reasons.
There's not an inch of downside to it. She can only go up. I got clued into her a couple months ago when the NewsHour did a profile. It was impressive.
My first thought (and only one pundit has mentioned this. Monica Crowley on McLaughlin Saturday) was she was hired for three and three reasons only;
Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.
It matters not what we, Hillary supporters (who they are NOT going for on this pick, despite the idiotic narrative out there now) are not into her.
What matters is all those women in those states (and a few more) who are 'soft' R's currently considering Obama going, 'wow! That's me!' And their husbands going, 'wow! I'm married to her! And that's my family!'
I swear they could not have invented a better archetype; her, the husband, the kids, her life, her accomplishments...the whole bit will ring loud for those voters.to stay home and go R now.
What cracks me up reading the hateful crap about her already on Huffington, Daily Kos etc., is these fools don't even realize they have taken the bait EXACTLY the way McCain's people wanted them to. You rag her accomplishment's, you rag those women by extension in those states who connect to her.
They absolutely want a cultural war over this. it serves them completely with those soft R's.
My fear is Obamanauts are gonna make the same mistake they did with HRC supporters. But this time the disrespect is gonna be even more outrageous. It's happening already and his supporters would be well served to dial it down, 'cuz it's gonna rebound.
On her 'experience,' I highly doubt Obama/Biden are gonna go hard at the experience deal. it won't work. A lot of Americans would stack being a GOVERNOR (and all that goes with it) of a complicated state over 142 days as a Senator any day.
And ya'll who keep harping on this small town mayor thing have taken the bait as well. Another narrative not thought out...just repeated.
Who the frig votes in this country?! People in small places who know and respect the difficulties and complications of governance in smaller places. It's where they live. They get it. That is just not going to get over as an argument "out there."
What this woman could do is not only beat Biden's ass to the ground in a debate (check the footage of her doing her thing in Alaska with these frontier men) but make a very credible VP leading an energy policy.
And do not underestimate the power of people envisioning getting one of those $1,500 rebate checks she beat out of the oil and gas business up there for all Americans. Money talks. From here, sounds a little better than the $30.00 we got from the NM special session.
Obama says he's gonna do this and that to the oil and gas barons...while racking up more money from them (as individuals) than McCain. She did it. It's gonna ring.
And this lunacy of her not having foreign policy experience...what the &^%$ is that?!
People have got to uncork themselves off Cheney and what he did to that office. Let's get back to reality. VP's do not handle foreign policy. Not an issue.
I'm tellin' ya, this is gonna play in those states. A brilliant bit of political calculus. That she and McCain did 17,000 yesterday is a clue.
You'd have to be incredibly blind to your own country to not see how appealing this woman will be out there.
Now, will it win it for McCain by itself? Of course not. Does it give him some space to get the narrative changed? Absolutely. That's all he needed from her.
Did I mention she likes ice hockey? Couldn't resist.
BTW, loved the follow up story on Politico on her today. Readers pounded the writers of it because they just went there.
Here's how they opened it:
Our e-mail over the past 24 hours offers one irrefutable fact about the surprising selection of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin: A lot of Republicans think we are detached from reality for suggesting the pick was an act of desperation by John McCain.
In a column published Saturday, we wrote that McCain's pick reflected his need to dramatically shake up the race by selecting a woman he hardly knows. Readers directed most of their outrage at our assessment that this was a "desperate" move by McCain.
Rarely have we been flooded with more e-mail, the most generous of which suggested we are dimwits, and much of it calling us names not fit to print. It was an especially stark example of something that in America's polarized political culture is a common phenomenon: reporters and activists viewing the same facts through radically different prisms.
Given the strong response, we asked many of those readers if we could publish their take on the pick. We put the most substantive ones at the top. But if you want to get a flavor of a journalist’s typical inbox fare, read to the bottom:
http://www.politico.com/news/sto...0808/
13035.html
I'm tellin' ya again. This is gonna hum...
ah, Politico and Gene...
fooled by the right wing echo machine.
the right thinks they've found pappy some reeeeform. in the end it will undercut their message.
tactically for the moment, yes, genius. the media bit.
mid-term strategy-wise it will fail. it will not change the outcome of this election. (it's still gonna be tight.)
long-term, who knows - i somehow doubt energizing the base and 'soft R' women (must be code for soccer moms) changes much for the future. the right's base knows about as much about her as anyone else. the excitement will fade. probably already starting. i'm telling you, the focus groups must've really been telling the repubs something after that convention for them to do this. it's just so out of character. what about the next in line? does the right wing of the republican party really want to hand over the GOP to two "maverick" reformers? the GOP's split personalities are on full display. the right wing, gun toting, self-described social conservative (with a 17 year old daughter with no choice but to have her baby and marry the father) and the guy they HATE, who embarrassed them time and time again. what a laugh. change elections aren't won by reformers of parties in power. especially ones who are trying to reform it to be just a little more right wing than it was before.
this country is changing. big time. journalist in-boxes just aren't what they used to be - trust me on that one.
this pick was a media stunt, and not much more. i mean, they "met" 6 months ago, which i read as they were in the same room. then "hit it off" in a not-so-secret meeting?
Where is this right wing echo machine?! Is there a Lefty Echo machine I can buy? Oh. wait...it's the bloggosphere. I already subscribe.
In all seriousness, there are very few things anyone can say about me that annoys, so let me just say it. I'm fooled by no one. Either side.
You may find this hard to grasp, but I come to my own analysis and conclusions on Palin and what the pick means.
In addition, as much as I WANTED to dig into the sound of both echo machines, all of which I expressly stated to ensure reasonable minds I wasn't parroting. A grand total of Politico (two articles), some Huffington letters and about ten minutes on Daily Kos doing the same. That's about it.
No Rush, No Sean. No Right Wing Echo Machine.
If what you meant by The RW Echo Machine is who I noted, Monica Crowley (because people who do not take their cues from The Machine source stuff), you'll recall I said it was *my first thought* meaning, without the help of any machinery, farm implements or anything else.
As in *my-first-thought* on Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Not Rush's/Sean's/Monica's/whoever else you think makes up this RWEM. Mine.
Trust me dude, I know how this works. Surely if someone makes a reasonable case for some kind of R decision, SURELY it must be repeated talking points or the observer is in the tank, surely.
Please.
You can say anything you want about me dude, but do not go there on being "fooled" by anything or anyone. You'd have to know me better...
The main thing that has really turned me off is the use of the down-syndrome baby by both sides. When you digest the message, it seems to be--coming from both sides--that its a noble act to have a downs syndrome baby. More like a blessing...ask anyone in my family.
Now that I'm catching up to a lot of this, the language has been most unfortunate on both the sexism and using the DS child as some sort of litmus test.
And regarding the teenage Palin pregnancy I've decided I'm just going to stay away from all opinion on it because it's going to be emotions at its most immature.
BUT, I cannot believe I just read this in the Times about Barack Obama and his take on it:
"...Mr. Obama, in his first remarks on the matter, raised his voiced when asked whether his campaign or other Democratic operatives were working to advance rumors surrounding the Palin family.
“Our people were not involved in any way in this and they will not be,” Mr. Obama snapped. “And if I ever thought there was somebody in my campaign that was involved in something like that, they’d be fired, OK?”
Mr. Obama said the pregnancy “has no relevance to Governor Palin’s performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president.” He added that, “my mother had me when she was 18. How family deals with issues and teen-age children – that shouldn’t be the topic of our politics.”
“So,” he added, “I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories.”
...me again. I have a new level of respect for Obama here. He raised his voice and snapped?! That is stunning.
Being the son of a mother who had him at 18 he knows what it feels like to be judged and he's not going there. If he actually fired someone, that would go a long way.
Man, this race is gonna be insane.
got a rise outta gene. i fuckin love it.
ok. so ur wrong. u weren't fooled. i made my case against what u wrote, and all i got back was that I said you were fooled.
sorry i don't know you well enough to say you've been had. but if that's the case, don't call me dude.
and i do know about what infrastructure both sides have, and how they fund it and how they work it. it's my job. and if you wanna' learn about what each side has to 'echo,' have me on your show some time and i'll clue you in.
the reeeform reference was from o brother where art thou? when the incumbent is sitting on the porch, and the "reform" KKK candidate is kicking his ass, and he's talking to his "advisors," one of his cronies says:
"Maybe we should get ourselves some of that reform, pappy!" He answers by slapping the hat off the head of the hanger on and says "you can't be the incumbent and be talking about reform, you idiot." or something to the effect.
"[Media] is not a mirror to reflect reality, it's a hammer with which to shape it." B. Brecht.
This sums it up for me:
"Women -- the same women who may or may not have supported Hillary, and who are applauding McCain's supposedly go-girl choice of Palin as his veep -- should be furious at the Republican nominee for ensuring that the history-making woman he tapped will be considered not on her intellectual or political merits, but on her reproductive ones." -Rebecca Traister for Salon
The fact is, if Palin was a man she never would've been chosen. And that, to me, is insulting.
Seriously? What did Bill Clinton have for experience before he ran? "Never" would have been chosen? Tim Pawlenty has a very similar resume and he was near the top.
She was chosen for her reproductive merits? What in hell does that even mean? Has McCain said that?
Never? A GOVERNOR?!
I can see why she was chosen. She's a young, up and coming republican star who has an ideological fire in the belly that the R's social conservative base loves. Given McCain's negatives with his base, they're afraid that a lot of that base will just stay home. You can't say she was an unknown before now, because I knew about her last year...and I'm not someone who follows all the politicos coming and going. And I figure she's pretty smart. What makes you think she isn't?
There are plenty of women and men, actually, who will be energized by her social conservative cred, who might otherwise just stay home, or even vote for Obama on the change angle. And I'm not talking about the so-called Hillary supporters. I'm talking about Republicans.
Then there's the energy tip--which is just about the only thing the R's have gotten any traction on this year. She can tout her credentials on the oil and gas commission in Alaska. Something tells me she's going to be talking about that subject a lot:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/29/
...sion=2008082920
Gene,
to correct the record, bill clinton wasn't chosen for VP. he was elected as prez.
that said, i think she was selected because she's talented, as marjorie pointed out.
yet i don't think they vetted her, and it was risky.
the thing about mixing the experience message is that it under cuts the (is it actually the McCain team?) republican's "who-is-this-inexperienced-guy?" frame that's been keeping them in the race.
now the question is who is she and can she fill the shoes of, if elected, the oldest president in history?
i'd say the answer is yes to both. (i really don't agree with either of their politic - one less than the other of course...)
But now the question is out there...for both.
and that's a strategic mistake born from tactical brilliance. kinda like a blossom turd, rather than a turd blossom.
does experience matter in this election? i mean Barack doesn't have what i would call experience. Bill Clinton was a Governor which i think in some cases qualifies you more than a senator. not to mention a first term one.
Experience has always been an empty argument. There is no experience that prepares one to be POTUS. All you can hope for is someone who's shown the ability to pick good advisers, can delegate well, and has good judgment.
If we're going to base who should be president on who has the most relevant executive experience we should probably elect Dick Cheney.
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