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Yeah yeah, and we keep hearing the same lines from the right "Let's keep looking forward." "We need to be united right now." "Lets not play the blame game." It happened when there were no WMDs and they are using the same technique again. Defer until something else takes the collectives mind's eye. You do a good job mario at attacking big bills spin but you need to look more objectively at your own parties spin.
Much of the criticism of Bush, Homeland Security and FEMA is coming from Republicans, locals and even right-wingie media, like Joe Scarborough.
One of the problems with some right wingers is that they can't seem to criticize their own regardless of what happens. On the other hand, Dems criticize their own regularly, if they deserve it.
Hey Mario, why not own up to the fact that naming a guy whose experience is dominated by running the Arabian horse association wasn't a good idea. How do you explain FEMA turning down so much help?
Last September Cuba was hit by Hurricane Ivan with 160MPH winds destroying 20,000 houses. Cuba effectively evacuated 1.5 million people along with their pets to established shelters which had ample stocks of food, water, and other needed supplies.
Communities were evacuated together with their medical teams (and veterinarians). Doctors knew which individuals needed insulin, et al.
Nobody died as a result of the hurricane.
No curfew was declared, and no looting was reported.
Cuba refused assistance from the US, yet the devastated areas have been completely rebuilt.
All this dithering you're fussing with about which branch of government was most at fault for the Katrina fiasco is just the sort of crabby Ann Coulter bitchiness that exemplifies our current bureaucracy where any accountability standards are denounced as "finger pointing." I've got a finger pointing at all you dittoheads right now. Guess which one.
Barb, on the FEMA front... that does look like a mess. However, if everything that is out there is true, it has to do with mismanagement and plain foolishness, not racial prejudice.
Charles, don't you think that Cuba's safe evacuation is a result of the fact that if the general population doesn't follow evacuation orders they risk being arrested or shot? Whereas, in the US people are free to stay in their homes even though the likelihood of death is high.
All of you, I don't mean to imply that Feds are completely blame free. My main points are two-fold:
1) State and local government is responsible in the first hours and days of any tragedy. NY did it well, LA did it poorly.
2) Blaming the tragedy on racial prejudice is wrong and offensive.
Actually, the LA Governor declared a state of emergency and the gulf coast states requested troop assistance from the Pentagon on Friday, August 26. See the timeline at http://www.thinkprogress.org/kat...atrina-
timeline
In a catastrophe this wide geographically and otherwise, I don't see how state and local authorities can do much effectively. NYC had the relative benefit of having the damage limited to a small area of the city and a small number of its total citizens and first responders. In NOLA, the whole city was affected, including local authorities, police, firefighters etc. and their families. Thus the need for immediate help from the outside, from the agency with that kind of responsibility.
Perhaps racial or class bias played a role or perhaps not. Given the South's history and the experiences of the vast African-American underclass there, it's not surprising that's the perception. Just from a common sense perspective, I have to question whether response would be so lackadaisical if it happened in Santa Barbara or the more wealthy sections of Florida. Humans are humans in all their tragic and flawed prejudices.
Most important, however, I think it's vitally important to find out what happened, what didn't and why so we can fix it NOW. The hurricane season is only half over and, as we know, we are vulnerable to other kinds of disasters related to terrorism as well. There's a fair chance this team may be challenged again soon and we can't let this happen again.
And believe me, if it were a Dem administration running FEMA, I'd be demanding the same thing.
We are in agreement that our poor response is not a result of deliberate racism. I think that this government would treat white people just as badly. Class issues are different, but the rich may not be well-served if caught in these emergency conditions, either. (The rich are less likely to be in those conditions, of course.)
I don't agree that Cuba's success was a result of greater coercive power of the government. It may have more to do with building emergency plans from the ground up rather than from the top down. Cuba has had more reason to have created emergency shelters; in addition to hurricanes, they've been waiting for another US invasion for the past several decades.
Whether the responsibility for response lies at the community, city, state, regional, national or international level, it's clear that the ability of any government is considerably less than claimed by politicians of all parties who overpromise and underdeliver. The emperor has no clothes. Again.
We routinely notice that governments are ineffective, yet we give them "responsibility" and change leaders every so often to "throw the rascals out" and get a whole new batch in. The overreaching of statist forces in so public a manner may cause some to think about changing the system rather than the administrators.
Charles, welcome to the Advocates for Limited Government Club.
I'd sure advocate limiting THIS government! That includes all the "privatized" parts like Halliburton, Custer Battles, et al.
I'm happy that you and I are in agreement that the ability of our government to promote war and corporate interests over the interests of its own citizens should be limited (if not abolished).
Are better governments possible? Maybe. But the all-against-all mentality of the would-be tough guys in our citizenry works against an informed electorate acting in its own interest. Fools elect fools.
If I were to assess you a fee for my being willing to come get you when your house burns down and your car won't start (and back up the collection with coercive force), you wouldn't like it much. You'd like it even less if I took the money and then refused to come get you when the fire hits. This government is mostly a shabby con game to benefit corporations at the expense of the people it claims to serve. Our tax dollars are pissed away by morons while significant problems go unaddressed.
But isn't this how all governments work? Mostly yes. But if we didn't have a government, would our lives be better? No.
So can we improve this auction masquerading as "public service" with which we are afflicted now? I sure hope so.
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