Thanks for Commenting
So far, neither Palast or you have said enough to judge, though the fact that Democrats are largely in charge in NM does make things lean your way, at least at first glance.
If/when Palast shows his hand more fully, I'll revisit for your rebuttal of his evidence.
All I can find so far is his suggestion that restrictive voter ID laws turned away a whole lotta hispanic voters in "Little Texas..."
How They Stole Ohio Greg Palast: "For example, in the "Little Texas" counties in New Mexico, if your voter registration included a middle initial but your driver's license had none, you were kicked out of the polling station. Funny, but they only seemed to ask Hispanic voters."
...and spoilage took a bunch more, at least in 2004.
Kerry Won, Here are the Facts, Greg Palast, ThinkingPeace: "New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts--Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin."
Palast also talks a good bit about the indian vote, focusing on Precinct 13, here.
Like I said, I don't know the facts for sure, but I am interested in finding out.
Just pick up any paper or missive written by anyone who pushes the New York Times style of jounalism and you'll see the same type of bullbutter tossed around. I know that you know that, but the previous poster seems to delight in quoting Mr. "Plaster" and seems to sign on to the same cabal.
I guess I missed the "little Texas" furor, but I can assure the previous poster that there were plenty of "hispanic" poll workers and poll watchers, not to mention honest anglo and black workers/watchers who worked their best to see that everyone received fair treatment. We can be assured that many "acorns" fell from the tree in that area during the election referenced.
Keep up the good work.
As a GOP activist in Lea County (i.e. Little Texas) I can assure you that there were no cases of voter fraud in our area. It is always funny when those on the fringe left scream about racially motivated voter fraud, yet, never seem to get one shred of evidence down here in "Little Texas". I guess its because unlike Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Dona Ana County and Rio Arriba County we actually have honest election officials down. One never hears of an ACORN activist getting caught bribing people to register to vote down here, yes for Albuquerque. All hype, yet no evidence.
After the plea of the wife of a commissioner in Chaves County to absentee voter fraud in the Republican Primary, can we not assume that this is a technique the Republicans have used. The Republicans seem to dominate absentee balloting. I think we should eliminate absentee balloting since there is no way of proving who filled the ballot.
Fred,
This coming from a party that pays the homeless in cocaine to register to vote. This coming from a party that refuses to let us review the list of illegal aliens who have NM drivers licenses to see if they happent to be on the voting rolls. How quaint.
Dean, in Florida the Republicans used the felony list to remove legit voters from the rolls. How many legit Hispanic voters would have been purged from the rolls by you guys. Again the only case I've seen were someone was caught actually VOTING ILLEGALLY was a Republican using an absentee ballot. I think absentee ballots can not be trusted and should not be allowed.
Chuck: I quoted Palast in the hope that someone would directly address his charges. While I do lean his way politically, I don't know the truth, and don't accept anyone's word for much of anything. Having alot of hispanic poll workers &/or watchers doesn't say much of anything about provisional ballots, spoiled votes, or how ID requirements affected the election.
The number of spoiled votes, and the places where Palast claims those numbers are highest & lowest in NM (& elsewhere) are compelling, assuming they are factual. ((Who are the voters? Who runs the election precincts?))
I'm not saying Greg is right... I'm looking for proof, either way...
"Dean, in Florida the Republicans used the felony list to remove legit voters from the rolls."
Maybe because at the time it was AGAINST THE LAW TO VOTE. Plus, newspapers investigated that claim and nothing was found as far as real evidence.
"How many legit Hispanic voters would have been purged from the rolls by you guys." Sorry, but we don't consider race in purging people down here. Unlike you on the left, we don't define ourselves by our ethnicity or color. We see ourselves as individuals. Plus, we had great help here in Lea County by our Viva Bush Hispanic organizers who broke a state GOP record for new registered voters who were mainly Hispanic.
"Again the only case I've seen were someone was caught actually VOTING ILLEGALLY was a Republican using an absentee ballot." Once again, your ONLY case. Whereas, I could mention the incidents with ACORN and MoveOn.org and others.
"I think absentee ballots can not be trusted and should not be allowed." Because your side can't win there. How predictable to want to end a voting option where you lose.
Dean,
If 7 in 10 hispanics vote Democratic and you eliminate 10 legit voters with Hispanic sir names odds are you are eliminating 7 Democratic votes.
And again those were questionable registrations not votes. Do I need to explain the difference.
As far as absentee votes, there is no way of proving the legal person is voting other than having it notarized which would result in a poll tax. which is illegal.
Also just because your party registered someone that does not mean they voted your way. Odds are they still voted Democratic.
"If 7 in 10 hispanics vote Democratic and you eliminate 10 legit voters with Hispanic sir names odds are you are eliminating 7 Democratic votes."
By law and by process we can't eliminate voters due to race. If someone messes up or is incorrect in filling out their voter forms, or they just haven't voted in years, then they get purged and it is their own fault.
"And again those were questionable registrations not votes." Kinda like how in Dona Ana County, in 2004, you had people on the rolls who were born in 1894 and etc voting Democratic in 2004.
"As far as absentee votes, there is no way of proving the legal person is voting other than having it notarized which would result in a poll tax. which is illegal." What major evidence of voter fraud involving absentee ballots do you have? People, when requesting an absentee ballot, have to fill out request forms and etc. This is the process that has been established. It works, as far as absentee ballots, and you simply oppose it because more Republicans use it then your side.
If you really are concerned about fraud then join me in pushing a photo ID voter law in which all voters have to show a photo ID to vote....kinda like when we go to the bank or to rent a movie. Don't give me that line that it will hurt minority or poor voters. Illegals shouldn't be voting by law anyway and even the poor can get a photo ID, if they don't have a drivers license, from the state.
"Also just because your party registered someone that does not mean they voted your way. Odds are they still voted Democratic." Not likely since that was in 2004 and Bush, as well as down the ballot GOP candidates, got 84% percent of the vote in Lea County. We also GAINED seats here in Lea in the 2006 elections.
Sorry Fred, but no cigar.
Dean,
How will an absentee voter show their ID when the are filling out their ballot it would take a witness who is either a poll worker or someone who is a notary. You see Dean you must have the same standard for all forms of voting. That is the difficulty of showing ID for a walk up vote since you can not apply the same standard to the absentee vote, that is unless you do not believe in fairness. I have no problem with voter ID, but you will have to eliminate absentee balloting in the process.
BTW you were bragging about registering Hispanics that is why I said odds were they would still vote Democratic, stick to your own story line.
As far as my one case of someone voting illegally using the absentee ballot, it is still one more case than someone found guilty voting illegally in the walk up vote.
Again are you willing to give up absentee balloting in order to establish voter ID for walk up voting. Things must be equal across the board.
As for the absentee balloting process being established for a while, well the walk up process has been established even longer, so lets change it all at the same time. Fair is Fair
"By law and by process we can't eliminate voters due to race. If someone messes up or is incorrect in filling out their voter forms, or they just haven't voted in years, then they get purged and it is their own fault."
Dean, if you are talking about getting a list of "illegals" with drivers liscenses in order to make sure the are not registered to vote then we are probably talking people with common Hispanic names and there are chances when purging the rolls legal voters been purge are at least probable. Again legal voters were purge in Florida when Republican state officials used the felony list.
Fred,
"How will an absentee voter show their ID when the are filling out their ballot it would take a witness who is either a poll worker or someone who is a notary." If we had a photo voter ID law then they could do that. But right now we have them fill out request forms and we have had NO problems here in Lea County. What I can't stand is your arrogance and allusion that we down here are all racists. Our candidates don't campaign in the North against Anglos to get out votes.
"You see Dean you must have the same standard for all forms of voting." I do have the same standard for voting....honest elections. Sorry, but the GOP is NOT the party of fraud. The record on that from the 2000, 2004 & 2006 elections speak for themselves. Kinda like how Bush won Dona Ana County in 2004, but, the democrat officials at the courthouse all of a sudden 'found' thousands of provisional ballots in a locked bathroom. Lea had less than 50 provisional ballots, like most counties, but Dona Ana's democrat machine didn't.
"BTW you were bragging about registering Hispanics that is why I said odds were they would still vote Democratic, stick to your own story line." I never got away from my story jackass. We registered them and they obviously voted heavily Republican. Plus, Bush and Pearce WON the south Hobbs precincts.
Get your facts straight.
Dean,
What the hell are you talking about? My problem with absentee balloting is you have no idea who filled out the vote, not the request. They should be equal, My concerns had nothing to do with racism. I would type slower if I thought it would help you grasp that there would be a difference in casting votes if ID's are only required when you cast you vote in the walk up situation.
Still no proof of someone fraudulently casting a vote in the walk up situation, huh? Still have you beat with that wife of the Republican County Commissioner casting fraudulent absentee ballots.
The numbers you give mean nothing.
What are the demographics. What was the breakdown on votes cast by race? What was the turnout? And it is not racist(in the bad way) to realize there are differences in the political leanings by race. I didn't see racism playing a part in the attempt of republicans to grab the driver liscense rolls, its just a fact that hispanics lean democratic. That is why you guys have not done one thing about making sure absentee balloting is made more difficult to commit fraud, absentee balloting leans republican. You can't tell me if someone was found guilty of walking in and casting fraudulent votes for three people you guys wouln't be screaming murder. But what the heck I never expect consistancy from republicans.
Consistancy from your side?! The side which elected John 'Flip Flop' Kerry? The side who want to be tough to terror yet want to surrender?
You just don't like absentee voting because we Republicans beat you at it time and time again.
How about letting us view the list of illegal aliens who have drivers licenses here so we can compare them to the voter rolls?
We have screamed bloody murder. We did in 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006. We asked and launched investigations and tried to amend the process via the legislature. You don't want reform. Those on the left don't want reform, they just want their side to win at all costs.
Dean,
Why shouldn't we have the same standard for ALL types of voting? That is all I am asking for. So what say you, should they be held to the same standard? Just answer it so I know where you really stand on fair and honest elections.
BTW you might want to look into the USAG scandal to see who is trying to win at all cost.
Hey Mario! I go out of town and find out you quoted me. Thanks for the civil discussion.
I have not read the other comments yet so I may be covering old ground. Since when is Palast a partisan? Because he has attacked the Republicans does not make him a partisan? I would be more than willing to change my mind on that matter if you can show me evidence that he has done the bidding of a political party, at the behest of said party and its leadership. Palast points out inconsistencies about alleged "voter fraud." If he finds dirt he reports it. That does not make him a partisan.
I understand the point you are making about his claim that Heather lost the 2006 election, without substantiating it with the investigative data he claims to have collected. But his claims are no more spurious than NM GOP claims of widespread "voter fraud" in NM. Palast should publish the evidence he claims to have. The NM GOP should publish evidence of widespread and systematic voter fraud. Then we can, based on the evidence, decide if indeed we have a real problem. Anecdotes are not evidence.
The voter fraud argument is built on a house of cards, a house that is collapsing quickly as the U.S. attorney investigation moves forward.
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