Dr. Siegel: "To hide that information from the public, only to use it as a ploy to try to obtain money for your group, is irresponsible."
Reprehensible is a better word.
Btw, are the amounts of the chemicals found in paint stripper, toilet cleaner, lighter fuel, and mothballs inhaled in greater amounts from a cigarette or do the users of paint stripper, toilet cleaner, lighter fuel, and mothballs inhale higher levels?
PS Is the poison used in gas chambers the same poison found in lima beans?
PPS That rocket fuel stuff is showing up in municipal water out west. Anyone know what it tastes like?
To hide that information from the public, only to use it as a ploy to try to obtain money for your group, is irresponsible.
Is this really the way the anti-smoking movement wants its groups to operate? -Dr. Siegel
Pro-smoking ban groups realize that cheap ploys are all they have left...especially since information like the American Cancer Society air quality test results are now being spread across the globe.
http://cleanairquality.blogspot....st-
results.html
SHS levels are up to 25,000 times SAFER than OSHA workplace air quality regulations.........where's the health hazard? Nuisance maybe.......hazard?.....no.
Is this really the way the anti-smoking movement wants its groups to operate? Dr. siegel.
It may not be to your liking, Doc, but it is the way the anti-smoker cartel has been operating for years. ASH, like ANR and whatever the group Cherner is with these days, have had no credibility for years.
I really wish the public health freaks, like Glantz, Cherner, Repace, Godshall, and even you Dr. Siegel, would do something constructive in the field of public health like dealing with head lice in elementary schools. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd graders are not smoking, but they are being sent home from school because of headlice.
You people have your priorities all screwed up.
What's more reprehensible? Charging 25 bucks for worthless, false and misleading "information" or disseminating such "information" at all?
And just for the record, this mothball crap is as old as the hills. In the early 'seventies, the food additive phobes were trying the same scares, Faugh.
Is ASH saying that everybody, especially children, should stay away from toilet cleaner, lighter fuel and mothballs? How about automobile exhaust fumes, cooking fumes, candle smoke, etc., etc.?
Should warning labels be put on all cars, candles, stoves and wood purchased for fireplaces?
Or is it only chemicals in secondhand smoke, no matter how far below the OSHA guidelines, that are to be singled out?
And how about the toxicity of the people at ASH, who are obviously a cesspool of deceitful human scum?
Too harsh? Hey -- I don't think so!
Meanwhile, that ASH is charging for access to their information is hardly new for them, that's been posted there for at least a year if my memory serves me correctly.
It is truly reprehensible of them to do this, and it's not only for this new miracle list of ingredients, they have also been shilling their law strategies to win custody cases against smokers under the exact same ploy for quite some time now, among other worthy information that can help you demonize, deride, and chastigate the evil smokers, sign up now for this wonderful bargain, and feel like you are on the morally superior side as well, don't miss this "special" offer, act NOW! It may be your child/spouse/grandparent/brother/sister/in-law/
loved one you may save today... Halleleuja!!! Amen!
sheesh, time to go to bed, G;night Doc, all.
Dr Siegel what is the difference in reality between ASH and the Tobacco Companies actions that you abhor?The Tobacco Companies have been held accountable for withholding information from the public,here is an example of withholding information from the public AND blackmail,pay up to SEE the information.I think that's Public Health 2 Tobacco Companies 1 on the naughty boy scale.Now ,the question is,is Bill Godshall for this profiteering by ASH or not ?
Can someone post the 'additives' here so we can spread the "word" on the net?
Bill, do the right thing, post it.
I'll send $25- watch your mailbox
"Actually I find this irresponsible for a public health group."
This is the problem with painting all anti-smoking groups with a broad brush. ASH is not a public health group. It is an organization run by a law school professor (John Bahzaf). He has no medical experience. No one working for the group as medical experience. They conduct no medical research. ASH is not a public health group.
Let's see, ASH has a list of chemicals in tobacco smoke. If I am not much mistaken there are safe levels of exposure to paint stripper, toilet cleaner, lighter fuel (what would non-smokers be doing with that? sniffing it?), mothballs, poison gas and rocket fuel. Could ASH please provide us with a list of the remaining 3993 'chemicals' found in tobacco smoke, and how much would that cost?
Carl wrote:
"ASH is not a public health group...ASH is not a public health group."
Good point. But either way they certainly sound like one:
"This information, now being disclosed for the first time, could help persuade smokers to quit. It can also serve as a wakeup call to nonsmokers that breathing drifting tobacco smoke can hurt them."
"So, please learn all about this list of chemicals which has been revealed. Show the list to both smokers and nonsmokers."
"Now available, in an easily downloadable form, is the complete list, provided as a public service by Action on Smoking and Health (ASH)."
Carl, just what is your point? Nobody is painting all groups with the same brush. This is a direct criticism of ASH. But I think you knew that. Now, do you have an opinion on the clear, specific issue at hand - ASH's behavior?
If the rest of the anti brigade ALLOW ASH to act like a fellow colleague then Carl,perhaps you ought to be complaining a little more to the CORRECT people in Public Health ?They have given LENT authority to them as they have with Bill Godshall,BOTH ARE BUT INDIVIDUALS,ACTING IN A PRIVATE CAPACITY.
Carl, perhaps for someone with no medical experience to be running such a powerful public health-minded group as ASH says something about public health being swayed more to the realm of the legal profession.
And I don't think it's the first of their dirty tricks, forcing people to pay money like some internet spammer that will tell YOU how to get free government grants with one easy secret. Yes, I'm making the comparison, and it is worse because people can google the spammer's info to read government-based web pages that shoot down this fraud. ASH's scaremongering is not refutable until you know what it is.
ASH lobbied and testified over the whole smoking ban in England. After it was over, the British Heart Foundation did retract a key claim ASH and their consorts used, over worker safety.
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot....n-
corrects.html
Ms Deborah Arnott of ASH wrote a letter about how they got the ban in action back in July. It's been linked from here before, and I forget the original poster. But she mentions a lot about the political machinations. But she does not mention retracting one of the major claims after legislation went forward.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/
so...1823166,00.html
As si mentioned, that the other antismoking groups do not choose to condemn ASH's actions speak loudly. Aren't the antismoking folks the ones talking about how inaction can be so damaging?
I kid you not. I was in the dentist office this morning waiting for my son. I picked up a magazine and read an article on back pain. Listed in their advice to prevent back injury was "Quit smoking. Smoking damages your bones and muscles."
Oy vey.
I thought of another dangerous chemical found in cigarette smoke ASH can add to its secret list. This one's found in mud puddles, dirty bathtubs, and even car exhaust. Inhaled in high enough doses a person will literally drown. It's HOH.
Soren: "Could ASH please provide us with a list of the remaining 3993 'chemicals' found in tobacco smoke, and how much would that cost?"
Well, Soren, that depends. I wonder if you can get half the list for, say, $15.
Perhaps there's an installment plan. Maybe a discount for senior citizens if they fax in a copy of their AARP cards.
I have visions of a committee of people paying visits to the local hardware store or watching reruns of the X-Files for inspiration in conjuring up claims of new compounds and elements, both terrestrial and extraterrestrial, in cigarettes (but not cigars, pipe tobacco, snus).
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