Dr. Siegel wrote, "Would somebody please introduce some legislation to stop the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids from deceiving the public? I don't think I can stand it any longer to wake up every morning and find yet another deceptive communication coming from a supposed leader in the tobacco control movement."
Doc, think how you'd feel if you woke up every morning and found they'd taken money out of your wallet to do it.
Michael J. McFadden
Author of Dissecting Antismokers' Brains
http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com
Dr. Siegel wrote:
"[W]hile the tobacco companies appear to have largely discontinued this practice, the Campaign has taken over the practice..."
"I guess that's one advantage of fighting an opponent for so long. You can start to borrow pages from their playbook and use them to your advantage."
Speaking of playbooks, which brings Cathy Bell to mind, which brings accusations of being on someone's payroll to mind, any chance PM is paying CTFK to push this legislation? Cathy?
"I guess that's one advantage of fighting an opponent for so long. You can start to borrow pages from their playbook and use them to your advantage."…. Doctor Siegel
Could it be possible that CTFK is “exploiting mentally vulnerable people”
-simply- “to promote their political agendas.”? What do you think Cathy?
After all there’s supposedly a lack of “education” out there regarding tobacco use; so there must be a lot of vulnerable people out there willing to accept whatever lies these “prominent” anti-smoking groups toss at them.
Doctor, you write that CTFK is "deceiving the public in order to gain public support for its policies."
This perverse alliance between CTFK and PM is nothing more than a bunch of grandstanding because CTFK has to be seen as accomplishing something in order to justify its own existence.
The problem is, like any cult, unless CTFK and organizations like it continue to ratchet up the hysteria and thus perpetuate their self-reinforcing culture of groupthink, they will be quickly overcome by complacency and lose support of both the general public and the political machines that feed them.
Remember "55 saves lives"?
The national 55 mph was introduced as a way to save money - in this case, for oil. Then it became an urgent life-safety thing by public transit micro-managers who wanted to gush over their efforts at saving lives. But everyone sped anyway, because nobody really wanted to drive 55, it didn't save costs, and it didn't save that many lives.
Now, we look at it and say it was all so 20 years ago.
Now, California has had an indoor smoking ban for nearly 10 years.
Health care costs have increased at double the rate of inflation this year alone, despite the fact we've now banned smoking in parking lots, open fields, and beaches in addition to strip clubs and casinos. (it's supposed to save money)
The Califoirnia state statistics for myocardial infarctions have yet to show the 50% decline we are led to expect from the "Helena miracle" over this 10 year period. This same non-manifestation of declining heart attack rates has been repeated in several states now, it's quite the trend these days! (now it's a big life-safety thing)
Note further that smoking rates in California haven't changed much - about 17% smoking in 1999 when the bar ban was introduced, versus 14% in 2005. All this, for a three percent drop in people who are so foolish at to admit that they smoke. (Everyone sped anyway.)
How much strang und durm can these people at CTFK keep stirring up? Eventually their credibility will fold like a sub-prime lender...
Morgan: Remember "55 saves lives"?
They used the same tactic in Europe. They set the limit to save oil during the crisis, and then they kept it to "save lives".
Reminds me of the introduction of the seat belts. In polls, over 90% were in favor of a law requiring to wear seat belts (while nobody prevented them from wearing them anyway), but road checks revealed that less than 50% were actually buckling up.
Whoa whoa whoa. Take a closer look at the press release. If we use the doctor's standards of honesty and accurate public education, there is not a thing wrong with it.
The press release aims to tell people about a report just issued by a fancy-pants presidential commission. The press release indicates that the commission has come out in support of letting the FDA regulate all this stuff.
Whether the doctor agrees with that or not, the fact of the matter is, the commission did issue that report. And it did make that recommendation. Check it out. It's on page XI, I think.
http://deainfo.nci.nih.gov/ADVIS...rpt/
ExecSum.pdf
So... CTFK did, in fact, tell readers everything they need to know. And in that sense, the press release is 100 percent accurate. Smart readers will be able to connect all those dots.
Skeptical? Well come on. The doctor can go before a city council meeting and say "If all the bartenders in Mass. work for 40 years, 220 of them will die from SHS exposure."
Some people might consider this a highly deceptive or at least misleading statement--because as everyone knows, the assumption that all the bartenders will work 40 years is demonstrably and obviously false. Any accurate death-toll assessment would have to be based on a few (easily generated) assumptions.
The doctor says no way. That his statement was actually accurate because he began his statement by spelling out his assumption, however false that assumption might be.
Well, CTFK began it's press release by pointing out that it would discuss the commission's report. Which it did. And that commission's report did, in fact, support the proposed FDA legislation.
The doctor says generating the "lifetime career risk," or some such, is "useful." Well, isn't it also "useful" for the public to know what all these blue-ribbon panels are concluding?
To be honest, I think both maneuvers are transparently deceptive. But then again, I like to be consistent.
Don't know if this is new:
Now scientists have linked obesity to a cold virus (human adenovirus-36) spread by coughing. "The discovery could pave the way to 'slimming vaccines or anti-viral drugs'". -- (London) Evening Standard
If it has any validity ...
Fill in the blanks
It should also be noted that the President's Cancer Panel devoted fewer than two pages (of 181 pages) to the issue of federal tobacco regulation, while only several sentences actually addressed the PM backed FDA legislation (without mentioning that PM drafted, negotiated and is lobbying for the legislation).
It should be noted that the President's Cancer Panel report contained zero analysis of the many different policy changes proposed in the PM backed FDA legislation.
CTFK's press release was just another in a long line of misleading propaganda to promote the PM backed FDA bill.
If CTFK were to begin being truthful, they'd lose all credibility with the news media, who would realize that CTFK has been misleading and lying about the PM backed FDA legislation for the past three years.
So in order to generate more news stories and editorials (and funding from RWJF), CTFK must continue repeating the many lies it has been telling about the FDA legisaltion.
Sorry about the above; I see it's already been discussed. But it was the HEADLINE in the Evening Standard a couple of days ago.
Sam M,- "To be honest, I think both maneuvers are transparently deceptive. But then again, I like to be consistent.
TC has always been consistently and transparently deceptive.
So,...this not exactly a surprise.
What is surprising is Doctor Siegels death grip on the quaint notion that TC will somehow, miraculously, or at least eventually recognize their own corrupt double standards and actually apologize of all things, and start being honest.
Doc, puhleeeze... enough already.
It ain't gonn'a happen.
Stop wasting your time in trying to convince them, since they have already clearly stated that you don't understand the science. Start spending your time where it might actually do some good.
Lend your support to any one or more of the Smokers Rights groups that want nothing more than the truth to be revealed in order to start reversing the tremendous amount of damage done by the monster movement you helped to create, and that is now so clearly, obviously out of control.
You want legislation that compels TC to be honest?.....you're in a better position than the rest of us to make that happen.....why don't you do it?
Enough of the "Stop, or I'll say stop again" routine.
Bill Godshall wrote:
"If CTFK were to begin being truthful, they'd lose all credibility with the news media, who would realize that CTFK has been misleading and lying...for the past three years.
The only thing I'd add is you could say that about the entire anti-tobacco movement.
Would somebody please introduce some legislation to stop the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids from deceiving the public? I don't think I can stand it any longer to wake up every morning and find yet another deceptive communication coming from a supposed leader in the tobacco control movement.
Gee, Doc, that’s exactly how I feel every time I see you use the word “cause” and “serious health hazard”.
You use the word “cause” consistently to push YOUR agenda, knowing full well that the general public understands and accepts “cause” to be absolute.
You use the phrase “serious health hazard” without any quantifying or qualifying comment, knowing full well the general public will take it to mean “serious health hazard” to ALL and not to the few with severe asthma/respiratory/heart disease.
AND you also contradict yourself when discussing smoking in cars. Suddenly that “serious health hazard” that “causes” all sorts of ailments decades down the road, IF that; and then claim that smoking in a car with children, ONLY increases their risk for ear infections.
Adults are quite capable of finding other employment (contrary to your belief) whereas children have NO choice.
So, what exactly is CTFK doing that you aren’t?
CTFK's press release was just another in a long line of misleading propaganda to promote the PM backed FDA bill.
should read::
CTFK's press release was just another in a long line of misleading propaganda to promote the lies of the entire smoker control movement.
There, I fixed Mr. Godshall's comment. You're welcome.
" Would somebody please introduce some legislation to stop the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids from deceiving the public? "
Wasn't that what the RICO act was supposed to cover?
Perhaps some of the new terrorist legislation could be applied, if The Justice Department would only recognize domestic terrorists do exist.
Dr Seigel- "Would somebody please introduce some legislation to stop the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids from deceiving the public? I don't think I can stand it any longer to wake up every morning and find yet another deceptive communication coming from a supposed leader in the tobacco control movement."
Can I further ask a question? Why is it that as soon as the word charity/ nonprofit gets involved there is exemptions. Here in Canada there's many groups that get caught (1), and meanwhile they are saying how much "good" they do. Yet the gov't doesn't even realize how much relvoling door funding is going on so that Millions can get spent on Coalitions that are funded by and for these charities as well.
(need a USA example? Try the Coalition for a Tobacco Free Hawaii. join together Tobacco advocate working site has as part of their contact information "American Cancer Society, Hawaii Pacific Division". Please clarify for me your definition of "independent", when the contact is American Cancer Society. (2) Lets look at an officer, shall we? Kathy Harty, MEd, Interim Director of Coalition for a Tobacco Free Hawaii. According to the Tobacco Technical assistance consortium ( TTAC) site; she provides outreach to partner organizations including the American Lung Association, the American Cancer Society, the American Heart Association, the Office on Smoking and Health, the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids and various other national and regional organizations on behalf of TTAC (3).
(1) http://www.smokersclubinc.com/mo...rticle&
sid=3079
(2) http://www.jointogether.org/
orga...itemID=27808102
(3) http://www.ttac.org/aboutus/exte...s/
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